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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichael Moore has a little war on his hands, on and with Facebook
If you don't follow Michael on Facebook yet, give his public figure page a Like here: https://www.facebook.com/mmflint
Michael Moore about an hour ago - 11,135 people like this.
So how did Fox and company report on this? By taking out of context the words "I don't support the troops" and running stories about how I am attacking the troops. I can see how they might have misconstrued this -- IF THEY HAD ONLY READ THE FIRST FOUR WORDS! Are they that stupid? Illiterate? Professional liars? All three? They tried to whip up a lot of anger amongst soldiers and veterans against me by stating the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what I wrote.
As you can see from some of the comments here on Facebook, it's clear that either what I wrote was too intellectually complex (doubtful!), or hit to close to the bone of the hypocrisy the right displays when they say they "support the troops" and then do anything but. I know I was speaking some pretty ugly truths about this great country, but the USA will never be great if its citizens are afraid to point out the wrongs done in our name.
AND NOW THIS: A few hours ago, I was sent a notice from Facebook stating that they have received a number of complaints about my post from the haters. Facebook informs me that, by posting my piece on the troops, I "may have violated Facebook policies." They say they are now deciding what to do. Of course, the only thing I violated was the fallacy that America supports its troops. We'll wait and see if young Zuckerberg and company pull down my post or this site.
(Side note: It's funny that when you type "Zuckerberg" on Facebook, it comes up as a misspelled word...)
==========================
Here is the post that created the flamewar:
Michael Moore on Thursday
24,415 people like this.
10,677 shared this
4,228 comments
1. They get sent off to wars that have NOTHING to do with defending America or saving our lives. They are used as pawns so that the military-industrial complex can make billions of dollars and the rich here can expand their empire. By supporting the troops, that means Im supposed to shut up, dont ask questions, do nothing to stop the madness, and sit by and watch thousands of them die? Well, Ive done an awful lot to try and end this. But the only way you can honestly say you support the troops is to work night and day to get them out of these hell holes theyve been sent to. And what have I done this week to bring the troops home? Nothing. So if I say I support the troops," don't believe me -- I clearly don't support the troops because Ive got more important things to do today, like return an iPhone that doesnt work and take my car in for a tune up.
2. While the troops we claim to support are serving their country, bankers who say they too "support the troops," foreclose on the actual homes of these soldiers and evict their families while they are overseas! ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/29/bank-of-america-illegal-foreclosures_n_1118471.html ) Have I gone and stood in front of the sheriff's deputy as he is throwing a military family out of their home? No. And there's your proof that I don't support the troops, because if I did, I would organize mass sit-ins to block the doors of these homes. Instead, I'm having Chilean sea bass tonight.
3. How many of you who say you "support the troops" have visited a VA hospital to bring aid and comfort to the sick and wounded? ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701172_pf.html ) I haven't. How many of you have any clue what it's like to deal with the VA? ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/us/veterans-wait-for-us-aid-amid-growing-backlog-of-claims.html ) I don't. Therefore, you would be safe to say that I don't support the troops," and neither do you.
4. Who amongst you big enthusiastic supporters of the troops can tell me the approximate number of service women who have been raped while in the military? Answer: 19,000 (mostly) female troops are raped or sexually assaulted every year by fellow American troops. ( http://public.cq.com/docs/weeklyreport/weeklyreport-000004169541.html ) What have you or I done to bring these criminals to justice? What's that you say -- out of sight, out of mind? These women have suffered, and I've done nothing. So don't ever let me get away with telling you I support the troops because, sadly, I don't. And neither do you.
5. Help a homeless vet today? How 'bout yesterday? Last week? Last year? Ever? But I thought you "support the troops!"? The number of homeless veterans is staggering -- on any given night, at least 60,000 veterans are sleeping on the streets of the country that proudly supports the troops. ( http://nchv.org/index.php/news/media/background_and_statistics/ ) This is disgraceful and shameful, isnt it? And it exposes all those "troop supporters" who always vote against social programs that would help these veterans. Tonight there are at least 12,700 Iraq/Afghanistan veterans homeless and sleeping on the street. I've never lent a helping hand to one of the many vets I've seen sleeping on the street. I can't bear to look, and I walk past them very quickly. That's called *not* supporting the troops, which, I guess, I don't -- and neither do you.
6. And you know, the beautiful thing about all this "support" you and I have been giving the troops -- they feel this love and support so much, a record number of them are killing themselves every single week. In fact, there are now more soldiers killing themselves than soldiers being killed in combat (332 suicides in 2012 through November vs. about 210 combat deaths). Yes, you are more likely to die by your own hand in the United States military than by al Qaeda or the Taliban. And an estimated eighteen veterans kill themselves each day, or one in five of all U.S. suicides -- though no one really knows because we don't bother to keep track. Now, that's what I call support! These troops are really feeling the love, people! Lemme hear you say it again: "I support the troops!" Louder! "I SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!" There, that's better. I'm sure they heard us. Don't forget to fly our flag, wear your flag lapel pin, and never, ever let a service member pass you by without saying, "Thank you for your service!" I'm sure that's all they need to keep from putting a bullet in their heads. Do your best to keep your "support" up for the troops because, God knows, I certainly can't any longer.
I don't support the troops or any of those other hollow and hypocritical platitudes uttered by Republicans and frightened Democrats. Here's what I do support: I support them coming home. I support them being treated well. I support peace, and I beg any young person reading this who's thinking of joining the armed forces to please reconsider. Our war department has done little to show you they wont recklessly put your young life in harm's way for a cause that has nothing to do with what you signed up for. They will not help you once they've used you and spit you back into society. If you're a woman, they will not protect you from rapists in their ranks. And because you have a conscience and you know right from wrong, you do not want yourself being used to kill civilians in other countries who never did anything to hurt us. We are currently involved in at least a half-dozen military actions around the world. Don't become the next statistic so that General Electric can post another record profit -- while paying no taxes -- taxes that otherwise would be paying for the artificial leg that they've kept you waiting for months to receive.
I support you, and will try to do more to be there for you. And the best way you can support me -- and the ideals our country says it believes in -- is to get out of the military as soon as you can and never look back.
And please, next time some supporter of the troops says to you with that concerned look on their face, I thank you for your service, you have my permission to punch their lights out (figuratively speaking, of course).
(There is something I've done to support the troops -- other than help lead the effort to stop these senseless wars. At the movie theater I run in Michigan, I became the first person in town to institute an affirmative action plan for hiring returning Iraq/Afghanistan vets. I am working to get more businesses in town to join with me in this effort to find jobs for these returning soldiers. I also let all service members in to the movies for free, everyday.)
arthritisR_US
(7,283 posts)so this was a no brainer
cbrer
(1,831 posts)Definitely all three. Plus...
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)And making a profit, of course, while conning the truly stupid
cbrer
(1,831 posts)To sway the weak minded, bigoted, or greedy.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)being a part of the FOX gnus organization and being able to look in the mirror.
harun
(11,348 posts)LeftTurnOnly
(36 posts)brewens
(13,538 posts)That before I saw the context. I pretty much knew something was wrong.
It never changes. If you see John Kerry's testimony before Congress it's entirely different than what the right would like you to believe.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)The RW LIVES for this kind of stuff. Sort of like the "Al Gore Invented the Internet", it doesn't matter what the truth is so long as it plays into their preconceived notions. And this one surely did (The Hippie hates the troops meme).
Sometimes it is just better to not say what you really feel, because it does more harm than good.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I think Moore knows exactly what he's doing, he's been dealing with the right long enough for their reactions to be predictable like gravity.
Moore is playing offense rather than reacting to what the right is saying, he already had this planned out.
He has enough clout to make a difference on Facebook and has the facts on his side, I think he may prevail.
rtassi
(629 posts)However, I am not A famous filmmaker. I have been mentioned at FR, but that is about as far as my notoriety on RW media (to use the term loosely) goes.
...it's never "better to not say what you really feel" because it might upset or be misinterpreted by anyone anywhere. Censorship is not good, if we do it to ourselves before speaking, or if someone censors our speech after we speak. If you do that, then you're into "politically-correct-land". It looks to me like Michael started his article out like that to GET the winger's attention, to literally incite discussion with them in order to prove his point. He knew they would take his first 4 words out of context. And viola', the article distirbution quadruples exponentially. Believe it or not, some wingers are going to check out his article and read every word of it. He just might make some of them see that indeed he does support the troops and leave them wondering WHY he started the article with those 4 words. Hey, if he changes and inkling of one of those wingers minds, he's accomplished something.
Anyway, please don't take offense by my reply.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Moore is already on defense. He is already having to spend lots of time defending himself against an untrue smear. He is not getting his point across, he is basically being used to cement people's prejudices. Against both him and the Progressives who stand with him.
There are smarter ways to fight this battle. And he really should know better.
...and basically I agree with you, but Michael is Michael. Next week, he'll be all over TV explaining his view. And any way he can get the word out that the USG isn't supporting it's troops the way it should be, then so be it. It's the country we live in now. Sometimes a big stink has to be made just to get the attention, the national stage. If it gets a little more support for our troops in the end, then it was all worth it. You know, there are many people who really don't know that our troops aren't supported by the USG as they should be. It breaks my heart that the MIC/USG does our troops like this. It is the biggest betrayal that I have ever seen in my life. It didn't used to be this way. And I know this from personal account. I do all I can. I have never put those damn little decal ribbons on my vehicles. I support them by contributing to PVA, VFW and the local Rescue Mission which provides the homeless vets a safe and warm place to stay out of the elements, and meals to eat. Peace....
RVN VET
(492 posts)My favorite all time yellow ribbon magnet said "I support the chinese guy who made this ribbon."
Michael Moore ought to get rights to it and sell it. I'd buy several -- like to stick 'em on cars with Romney/Ryan stickers and, of course, "I support the troops" ribbons on them. And he could donate the proceeds to help vets.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)..never heard about that ribbon. It's the truth. They bloviate about how much they support the troops, and beside the ribbon and just repeating the statement over and over, it's just hot air.
Just ask them if they know what PVA is and watch their eyes cross.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Which doesn't surprise me, because it was not close to his wisest moment, but as far as I know he hasn't retracted it yet.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Reich Wingers are all liars and lying for the money. Michale earns his money with real research and reasoning. Go Michael.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Setting the right-wing discourse sphere afire with this topic is no doubt his intent. No matter that the arrows point at him, what matters is that the idea be the one talked about!
Lex
(34,108 posts)and my apologies to first graders for that.
How stupid do they have to be not to "get" what he is saying here?
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)their word for it and not do their homework by taking one minute to actually read his post. And they are right. Republicans are repeating the lies they heard without knowing reality. Kind of like the Al Gore lie that was referenced above.
adieu
(1,009 posts)He could have written, "I haven't supported the troops..." instead of "I don't support..." because what he's saying really is that he hasn't been supporting the troops, and neither have we, for the most part. "...don't support..." indicates an active choice of not supporting. What was and is occurring is the passive choice of not bothering. Yes, not bothering is, as far as the troops are concerned, no different than an active choice of not supporting, but Moore only raised the prickly ire of the right by using the words he did. In a way, by doing so, he did make it more viral, which I guess was his ultimate intent.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And got people talking about the neglected soldiers...
What if he had written:
"I support the troops, but America you do not..." ??
CranialRectaLoopback
(123 posts)They are legalized murders. They haven't been defending this nation since WWII. I give a pass to the Korean and Vietnam soldiers who were drafted.
rtassi
(629 posts)really feels also .. Our "soldiers" are choosing to participate ... Donovan's "universal soldier" nailed it!
ReRe
(10,597 posts)...I can't really believe you mean that...
LTR
(13,227 posts)And he knew all this mockrage was coming. In fact, I'm sure he helped encourage it. Good excuse to call them on their bullshit.
ladym55
(2,577 posts)I find it so interesting that Ann Coulter can spew vitriol with abandon, and Donald Trump can send out Twitter messages calling for armed insurrection, BUT when Michael Moore posts a thought-provoking essay on America's appalling treatment of its soldiers, oh, MY!!!
The Faux Noise faux outrage is just ridiculous. Too bad reading a complete sentence is too much of intellectual stretch for a Faux Noise follower. Read the whole sentence, people:
"I don't support the troops, America, and neither do you."
Michael Moore is using a literary device to get us to read his message and do some thinking. I realize that reading complete sentences and engaging in "thought" is sadly beyond the average Faux follower.
LTR
(13,227 posts)A bunch of wingnuts expressin false outrage will result in banning threats. Meanwhile, the most offensive, vile racist trash? They claim there's nothing they can do about it, and that no rules have been broken.
Want proof? Just go to any fake profile for "Barry Soetero", complain about it, and watch what they do about it. Jack shit.
CrispyQ
(36,421 posts)A friend shared it on her page & it was removed. I'd like to know if others have posted it & had it removed.
LTR
(13,227 posts)Maybe if it had a picture of a black kid eating watermelon and fried chicken it would get a free pass, as it's protected speech.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)I hate those commercials and commentators who support wounded troops and lay a guilt trip on me because some guy can't feed himself because he ran over an IED, got shot, etc. Yes it is very, very, sad but they talk about these injuries in a vacuum like they caught a virus or were victims of a natural disaster.
If you really care about troops you wouldn't put them in harms way in the first place! It's like harping on the victims of car crashes without talking about drunken driving or drunk drivers.
I remember before both these wars started, arguing with RW's at work. They were all grabbing their crotches, bellowing "USA #1", "let's kick ass", etc. First I asked how is this going to be paid for? Especially considering Bush tax cuts. Crickets. Then I said you know there is going to be death. Violent death. Death of innocents. Death of children. Young girls will be gang raped. Beheadings. PSTD. They looked at me like I was a wet blanket at a beach party.
I don't know why I'm surprised that people putting yellow magnets on their cars and sending $10 to some guy who got his faced burned off think they're supporting troops. They are not. These are the same people who pray over every meal, go the church every Sunday, and then hate on the homeless, poor, and think health care is something that only rich people deserve. When I confronted them on the teachings of Christ and their pro-war attitudes they looked at me like I pulled a dirty trick and hit below the belt.
Fucking hypocrites!
ReallyIAmAnOptimist
(357 posts)Michael Moore, long winded, but nails the "I support the troops" lie.
If we really supported them they wouldn't still be in Afghanistan, they'd be paid better, their homes wouldn't be foreclosed on, they wouldn't be the largest component of the homeless population, and far far fewer would feel so hopeless that they take their own lives.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)I can't imagine that the troops want to be sent as pawns to die for corporate greed.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)tclambert
(11,084 posts)the two words "Michael Moore." Few, if any, would read beyond that point.
loyalkydem
(1,678 posts)I just sent him a private message about a similar experience I just had.
judesedit
(4,437 posts)the ignorant, the racist, the sexist, the murderering, lying, cheating, white-collar thief. 99% of the GOP and their kids have NEVER served in our armed forces. That probably goes for the FAUX Noise puppets, too. Do you really think they give a shit? Or ever will give a shit? The resources our kids die for is all they want. Or should I say the $$$$$ from the oil our kids help them steal and die for is all they want. Wake up and turn that trash off! You are being brainwashed. Don't give it one minute of your time. It's crap. Keep talking Michael!
Claybrains
(132 posts)then I turn the channel soon after, because I don't want add to their ratings. Stupid, I know, but that makes me laugh too.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)This was when the shitstorm started, and it was a stupid thing for him to write.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)but nothing is going to change the validity of the argument.
Being poor is not a valid excuse for participation in war crimes.
Being ignorant is not a valid excuse.
"I am just following my orders" is not a valid excuse.
There is no excuse.
I support those who refused to participate in war crimes and got out or tried to get out.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Not.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I won't have anything to do with it. I wish I could help Michael Moore, but I just can't stand Facebook.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)I refuse to be one of the 900 million sheep who go there. That's not sarcasm.
Takket
(21,528 posts)I read his original piece and thought it was completely brilliant, and encompassed many of the same opinions I have about how patriotism in particular now is defined not by your actions but by the presence of your lapel pin (remember the heat Obama took over this?)
I also knew after reading it that this was EXACTLY what was going to happen, from Foxnews.
So sad.
I can not see how you can not agree with Moore on this
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)"Good news from Facebook tonight! I have heard from Facebook HQ and there will be no removal of my posts or my site because of what I said about how America doesn't really support its troops (and we should just stop saying that we do). There will be no censorship whatsoever. They apologized and feel bad that I received the notice threatening sanctions against my Facebook account. They said it was a big mistake, an error in their protective systems that produced a "false-positive" regarding me. They're sorry and now everything is back to normal. Thank you Facebook, and thanks to all of you who made your feelings known this evening. Within hours, all was well..."
defacto7
(13,485 posts)as far as Facebook... "protective systems"? Doubt it. Somebody just made a call and they decided was not in their interest. I don't trust FB any farther than my nose.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)I just got up and it was on my news feed.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)He is a great troop for us!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Honestly, I think Mr. Moore is tough enough to take it.
The truth is always uncomfortable for some people. When it's uncomfortable, the first person they attack is the messenger.
jthompson
(9 posts)Anything to distract us from the fact that corporations, and the 1% are raping our families, and killing us for profit. Add the troops to the list of victims. When is the last time you saw a show on Fox where they talked about the 21 to 31 trillion the world's wealthy have stashed in the Cayman Islands, and Switzerland..... Like that is going to happen. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=21+trillion+offshore
Just add the troops to the list of victims of the 1%
Response to Coyotl (Original post)
Post removed
narnian60
(3,510 posts)Michael Moore is a true patriot.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)It was meant to get our attention to read more and it did.
It's we the people who really, once again, want to make us vets go away.
We are a lingering entitlement program which must be cut.
History repeats.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)CrispyQ
(36,421 posts)I support Michael Moore.
Left Turn Only
(74 posts)If there is a Jesus, and if he returned to tell humanity what we had to do to improve our lives, the Koch brothers would organize a media campaign to explain how His misguided ideas would run businesses out of the country and leave us open to attack by terrorists, leaving everyone out of work and under constant attack. And the majority would believe it, especially if it were on Fox News.
Turtledog
(1 post)Can you imagine what they'd make of his immigration status?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)90-percent
(6,828 posts)This is a memory from Mad magazine's satire of the old TV show Mission Impossible from around 1968.
They had a taped speech of a Russian Nuclear scientist and they edited it to suit their purposes. The speech after their editing read like this:
"It is a nu-clear day. Perfect for going fission."
The righties editing techniques are comparable to a ransom note made up of words cut out from a magazine and pasted on a sheet of paper. The original meaning of their sources are completed obliterated.
KEEP FIGHTING MICHAEL! YOU HAVE BEEN SPEAKING FOR ME AND OTHER PROGRESSIVES FOR DECADES. Your tenacity as an activist progressive is a continued inspiration.
-90% Jimmy
valerief
(53,235 posts)join the service.
I remember when Top Gun came out. I said to myself, this is it. They're gearing up to do more WARRING. And they did. For a few short years before Top Gun, war was anathema to most Americans. The disco years. Then came AIDS and then came MORE WAR.
With WAR, comes bullshit from the Lip Service Leaders. That's all Moore was saying. Don't fall for the bullshit from the Lip Service Leaders. There is NO HONOR is sacrificing life and limb, in murdering innocent people, and in wasting enormous resources for the FILTHY RICH OWNERS of these Lip Service Leaders. No honor whatsoever.
supercats
(429 posts)Thanks for bringing the blatant and tragic hypocrisy out into the open for all to see.
CarmanK
(662 posts)Michael Moore is right about the many neglects and abuses our men/women in military and their families undergo in order to serve the country. It is very wrong that our soldiers are in the field and their HOMES are foreclosed upon? What kind of loyalty and support is that?
I look at the ads petitioning funds for WOUNDED WARRIORS and see what the funds pay for and I wonder, why is my govt not providing these brave men and women with their basic needs to live. My brother fought in VietNam, he was drafted at 18 and was in Nam for two tours. He got sprayed with AGENT ORANGE. It took our govt 20 years to recognize the damage that defoliant did to our troops. His failing health cost him his career and his wife. CHENEY cheapened the lives of the men and women in uniform. He and W sent those men and women off to die, ill equipped for battle (remember the private drive to buy helmets for our troops) in order to meet some private, ego driven monetary agenda. We need to bring our troops home, we need to throw that Parade in NY for Iraq veterans and we need to solemnly swear as citizens that we will never again allow individuals with private agenda to drive our national decisions.
WashingtonConsensus
(29 posts)ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)And allergic to anything remotely resembling Truth. They have to twist it bassackwards - it's their profit-making business to do it. And, it's the only way they and their peabrain followers and audiences can deal with it. Just wait till our FCC gives Murderous Criminal Murdoch even more of our national media. Everywhere else, the man is a criminal. In the U.S., we reward him.
Go figure.
The phrase: "you can't HANDLE the truth!" comes to mind. Fox can't. Murdoch can't.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)or shut his page down. He says they even apologized to him.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)calimary
(81,109 posts)Welcome to Takket, supercats, Left Turn Only, jthompson, John.Mekki, Claybrains, ZX86, CranialRectaLoopback, and Left Turn Only!
Glad you're here! Whether you're brand new or you've been lurking a long time and just didn't weigh in much!
This is a GREAT thread. OF COURSE Michael Moore's essay will be misunderstood! OF COURSE! There are just too many ding-dongs out there being fed constantly by Pox Noise and the teabagger universe and the limbots (limbaggers?) of the world. Too many willfully ignorant. And proud of it. Too many lazy and gullible and closed-minded.
Supporting our troops goes A LOT farther than just buying some cheap-ass buck-98 made-in-China car magnet and slapping it on your car's backside. A LOT farther. One could certainly begin by not sending more of them to needless wars we were lied into and had no business fighting, in the first place. And then one could certainly continue by NOT nickel-and-diming them on their medical care, upkeep, and the simplest necessities like decent housing and food.