OMG: FOX - Men armed with assault rifles walk through Portland to 'educate' public

[Coyotl]

Men armed with assault rifles walk through Portland to 'educate' public on gun rights
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/10/men-armed-with-assault-rifles-walk-through-portland-to-educate-public-on-gun/#ixzz2HdLS2MPm

Two men seen walking down a Portland street armed with assault rifles told police they were exercising their Second Amendment rights and hoping to educate the public on gun rights.

Several calls were made to 911 on Wednesday afternoon, with alarmed residents reporting two men with guns strapped to their backs walking through the area of Southeast Seventh Avenue and Spokane Street in Portland's Sellwood neighborhood.

When police arrived on the scene, they found two 22-year-old men carrying rifles openly on their backs. The two were also holding valid concealed handgun licenses in Oregon ...

.... The Portland Police Bureau, however, asks anyone who sees someone armed with guns to immediately call 911.

[Baitball Blogger]

1. I can see two objectives which are about to clash for the Republican party.

The first is the Second Amendment. The second is the desire to stir the economy. You have people walking willy nilly with guns strapped to their backs and it's going to freak the clientele.

We've seen no smoking areas. Maybe we'll see no gun areas some day?

[Coyotl]

2. There are a lot of no gun areas today. Schools, for example!!

[Baitball Blogger]

20. I'm referring to places of business.

If I knew there were people who patronized a place while packing just to make a point, I would avoid that place.

[Recursion]

29. Depending on your state, you can tell

Establishments that wish to prevent concealed carry on their premises have to post a sign near the entrance in most states (I think there is one that lets them opt in instead, but I can't remember which one it is).

[Baitball Blogger]

30. It's a good idea. I doubt Florida will be one of those states. But it's a good idea.

[Recursion]

37. Florida prohibits concealed carry in these locations

(This is from usacarry.com, which tries to help people keep the various laws straight. Alan Grayson introduced legislation to try to get states to standardize and do full reciprocity for concealed carry permits; that is probably a good idea)

1. any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
2. any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
3. any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse
4. any courtroom
5. any polling place
6. any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
7. any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
8. any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
9. any school administration building
10. any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption
11. any elementary or secondary school facility
12. any area technical center
13. any college or university facility
14. inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport
15. any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

And, looking now, you're right: Florida is one of the states that prohibits local and individual pre-emption.

Also, open carry in Florida is illegal.

[Voice for Peace]

108. "place of nuisance"

what is a place of nuisance? ok I will google it

It's places like drug houses, houses of prostitution, etc... there is some ambiguous language about morals in 823.01 but it's the kinda places your momma would tell you to avoid.

ETA: if the activity there is illegal, stay away whether carrying or not

[Recursion]

110. Houses of ill repute

Kind of a quaint law in some ways...

[Baitball Blogger]

133. Thank you so much for this info!

I especially support number ten.

[adieu]

121. Dallas TX

There are a number of hotels and restaurants in Dallas that have a "No Firearms Allowed" sign at the front doors. These yokels would definitely not been allowed to enter the place.

[kestrel91316]

154. Anybody comes into my veterinary hospital with a gun, they'd

damned well better be LEO in uniform or I'm throwing them out with no questions asked.

Jackasses.

[SunSeeker]

120. Not in Utah!

You shoulda heard the teacher on the Ed Show last night. Apparently they're ok with teachers packing, and their policy is that parents have no right to know if their child's teacher is packing.

[siligut]

164. Utah is in a class of its own nt

[Recursion]

9. Almost any public building is a gun free area (nt)

[Baitball Blogger]

21. People with concealed permits don't take their guns there?

[Recursion]

26. Generally not. Property owners override concealed carry, for the most part

Any private property owner can declare "no guns allowed"; many do. A concealed carry permittee who nonetheless carries on that property is guilty of trespass.

Most cities and states have asserted that right on the buildings and property they own; part of the "guns in state and national parks" fight is people trying to undo that in large stretches of wilderness that governments own.

[Baitball Blogger]

35. I'm coming to the dialogue late, but, I'll pick it up quickly.

Thanks for the info.

[Berserker]

41. NO we don't

We have been law abiding citizens all our lives or we would not have a conceal carry license.
Next question.

[SharonAnn]

162. Is an "assault rifle strapped to their back" a "concealed carry"? What's concealed about that?

I just don't get the entire thing, anyway.

[ManiacJoe]

23. Depending on where you live....

[Recursion]

28. True

For the most part, cities and states have declared public buildings gun free zones, except for some of the real woo woo states.

[MrModerate]

123. One of my company's headquarters (in Houston) . . .

Has a little 'universal no' symbol superimposed over an icon of a handgun, and requires that employees (Texans, many of them!) not carry their weapons into the building — regardless of what sort of permit they might have.

There was a certain amount of grumbling when the policy was first announced, because people were worried that thieves would break into their cars to steal the (presumed) weapons out of gloveboxes.

Management was underwhelmed and simply suggested that employees not bring their guns to work at all, thus solving the problem.

[Baitball Blogger]

134. LOL!

That took care of the problem.

[TeamPooka]

150. There's a lot of guys who want to live in the wild west not a civilized society

and they are stupid

[muntrv]

3. What if someone wanted to stand their ground and exercise 2nd Amendment remedies

against these guys?

[ManiacJoe]

25. First they would have to attack you or otherwise

cause you reasonable fear for your life.

[MrModerate]

124. I think it's pretty reasonable to fear . . .

That dickwads sporting such weapons in public are a potentially lethal risk.

And I'm sure I could find hundreds of defense attorneys who agreed with me. And juries, too.

[ManiacJoe]

127. No, you would not find many.

"Reasonable fear" has been established in case law in conjunction the self defense schools. The phrase you are looking for is "ability, opportunity, jeopardy".

Ability - your attacker has the physical ability to cause you harm or death, normally via a weapon.
Opportunity - you attacker has the ability to use the weapon or force against you, normally meaning you are within range of the weapon.
Jeopardy - your attacker has expressed the desire to harm or kill you either by words or actions.

In this case while ability and opportunity are met, jeopardy has not.

[MrModerate]

163. And I take it this doesn't meet the test . . .

Of exceeding allowable bounds of total dickishness?

[ManiacJoe]

166. He might, but doing so is not illegal.

[MrModerate]

167. Sigh. Probably just as well . . .

Given the limited number of saints among my acquaintances. Including the guy I see in the mirror.

[octoberlib]

4. How is walking around with an assault rifle

"educating people"? I'd run like hell.

[Coyotl]

5. It teaches peoiple to immediately call 911.

As the police recommend!!

[nobodyspecial]

6. And what if other armed citizens saw them and shot first

and asked questions later. And then innocents get caught in the crossfire. They keep this crap up and it's inevitable.

[Coyotl]

7. It seems like utter stupidity to me.

But, I bet they are basking in the attention thinking they are way cool.

The not-so-funny thing about stupid is the catch-22--you don't know you are stupid.

[pacalo]

8. Police officer said 911 calls are for "real emergencies".

Two guys with assault rifles walking down the street...meh.

Portland authorities later identified the men as Warren Drouin and Steven Boyce. Officers said carrying firearms openly is legal in Oregon and carrying a concealed gun is legal with a valid license, according to the station. But doing one or both may generate 911 calls and possibly tie up resources that are needed for a real emergency.

One of the men told the station that he hoped people would approach him and talk to him, instead of calling police.

"What they really should do is observe the person to determine if the person is aggressive," he said of seeing someone with a gun in public. "We're not doing anything threatening to anyone."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/10/men-armed-with-assault-rifles-walk-through-portland-to-educate-public-on-gun/#ixzz2HdP9NUB4

[Recursion]

10. Two people peacefully and trollishly exercising their rights is not, in fact, an emergency

These guys are assholes, and aren't helping, but the mere presence of an armed person isn't a reason to freak out.

[Robb]

11. If the peace is disturbed, it's disturbing the peace.

It doesn't matter whether we think people should or should not be freaked out. If they are, it is.

[Demo_Chris]

27. It's astonishing how often that argument is used to suppress...

...lawful activities the majority disapproves of.

[Robb]

39. Hey, thanks for joining DU right after Newtown.

I don't know how we've gotten on so long without you.

[Recursion]

40. Bwah

OK, that was awesome.

[Lurker Deluxe]

136. So

So if someone calls the police because two guys are kissing in public and it "freaks them out" than it is disturbing the peace?

Just because you do not like it, does not make it illegal.

Some years ago a friend and I were running out to his fathers place in Bellville, headed straight out Farm Road 529. We were in a Jeep and we also had a mini 14 with us that belonged to his father, which we were returning. About 2 miles short of his place just outside of Bellville we poped a tire, we had a spare but no jack. We hoped out of the Jeep and started walking down 529 with a mini 14 strapped to his back, it was a couple of minutes before the law showed up and asked why, what, where.

He responded that he had seen the Jeep with a flat and would give us a ride, which he did. When arriving at his father's place his parents were not home, we opened up the barn and the lawman gave us a ride back to the Jeep with a jack, after stowing the rifle in the house. A conversation ensued about the fact that we were carrying a weapon down the road and the legality of it all.

Although what we were doing was completely legal, the officer would much rather not have to deal with the fact that everyone who passed us on that road (a very busy one) was calling in and reporting it. He handled the situation very well, and under the circumstances we made an intelligent decision as to take the weapon with us down the road rather than leaving it unsecured.

In this case, those two are just being jackasses ... but, not breaking any law.

[Ptah]

138. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service:

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

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At Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:59 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

So
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2172638

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ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Equating "two guys kissing" with walking around menacing people with guns is not only absurd, it's homophobic. This guy does not belong here.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:07 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: .,.
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[Coyotl]

12. The Portland Police Bureau, however, asks anyone who sees someone armed with guns to call 911.

[Recursion]

17. Yeah. I've lived in East Mississippi and in DC

And, yeah, Portland is more like DC. I think if I saw somebody carrying a carbine in DC I would probably call the police. Then again it's for the most part illegal in DC to do so (unlike in Portland). Then again, if this weren't one of "my issues" I don't even know that I would know what the legal status of open carry where I live is. (Before you go there: I haven't owned a gun in a decade and don't plan to any time soon.)

OTOH, I'm trying to imagine anybody in my small hometown in East Mississippi getting freaked out by somebody carrying a rifle around, and coming up blank. I'd think "well, Fred's going hunting today" or whatever.

It's kind of a fundamental problem because what access to firearms makes sense is very much a local thing, but one state's decisions affect all of its neighbors (it makes total sense for somebody in rural VA to have a gun; but just cross one river and you're in DC, where that makes little sense for most people).

[Art_from_Ark]

102. If I saw two people walking the street with assault rifles

in my hometown in Arkansas, I would at least steer *way clear* of them. Thank goodness that even though it is a "red" town in a "red" county in a "red" state, people don't do that there.

[pacalo]

15. No one wants to see something like that in their neighborhood or other populated setting.

[Recursion]

31. Well, like I said in #17, I've lived in neighborhoods where that is and isn't true

Up here, in Southeast DC, if I saw somebody with a gun I probably would call the cops. Then again, it's illegal here, unlike in Portland. I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes.

Back in my small hometown in East Mississippi, I probably wouldn't think twice.

[pacalo]

36. I wouldn't want to live anywhere in which it's a common thing to see.

I've never lived in a household with guns & I'd be very uncomfortable being around one.

[Recursion]

38. de gustibus non est disputandum

*shrug*

[pacalo]

44. To each his own. Exactly.

[JI7]

55. if it was Black or Brown guys doing this the gun nuts defending this would be the first ones to

call the cops.

[Recursion]

59. Interesting thing. Remember that teabagger who was open carrying his rifle at protests?

Every wonder why you only saw his rifle, and never his face? Probably because he's black.

That's too destructive to too many narratives to make it out of the memory hole.

[JI7]

66. that was still a protests, but if a group of black or brown guys just started walking down the

street would get most of the gun nuts to report them .

[Recursion]

67. Yeah. California was fine and dandy with open carry until the BPP started doing it

*shrug*

It's hard to disentangle racism and the history of gun and crime policy in this country, unfortunately.

[JI7]

70. minorities are stopped when driving for no reason, look at Trayvon

had a gun nut go after him for having candy.

[theKed]

75. Bullshit

You think of the, what, two teabaggers that were black at a rally, they'd be the ones with guns?

[Recursion]

76. Here's an interview with him

That was aired on the local station. The nationals just went with the picture of his rifle.

[Ed Suspicious]

57. If I see two assholes walking around with assault rifles, I'm calling the cops and giving the

assholes in question a wide berth. I'm not taking the chance it isn't an emergency.

[VOX]

74. Screw that-- these needle-dick yahoos are playing with fire...

And the average, non-packing citizen who's otherwise pursuing happiness and a peaceful existence shouldn't have to deal with this crap.

Technically legal or not, these guys are walking the public streets with highly refined instruments of killing. In this era of lunatics shooting up communal venues and assorted mass killings, this is beyond stupid and insensitive. It is MENACING. It is AGGRESSIVE. It is ALARMING. It is, frankly, an obscenity, and it is risky -- any time you put guns into any situation, by their very existence, they threaten their own use.

This outlandish culture of gun fanaticism only feeds insanity, which in turn almost guarantees needless bloodshed.

[boomer55]

94. considering it was my kids preschool that got locked down and I got the call about men armed with

rifles in the area you can shove this thought up your poop hole.

[DanTex]

141. I think 911 is a pretty good call here.

There are basically two options.
1) There's going to be a mass shooting.
2) Two lunatics are walking around with AR-15s just to "make a point".

Either way, I'd feel better having the police around.

[Last Stand]

14. If I make a bad joke to a TSA dude at the airport, they lock me up

and put me on a no fly list.

Instill fear in a city by carrying a loaded assault weapon in a place it symbolizes nothing but death...just your second amendment right.

[jpak]

135. If they were African-Americans, it would have been a "real 911 emergency"

Yup

[appleannie1]

152. But a person can be non aggressive until they reach their target and then all hell will

break loose so how is the average person supposed to know they don't have a target in mind? And what person in their right mind is going to walk up to a stranger armed with an assault rifle and start questioning them? They have already proven they are stupid attention seeking assholes.

[pacalo]

161. Exactly! No one knows another person's state of mind or purpose.

That's why we call the police to investigate anti-social behavior.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. The last time I saw anybody openly carrying

Was at the Honolulu airport, a company of US Marines on their way to the front.

It was hilarious, given TSA's reaction, but they were on the way to Iraq.

[Recursion]

18. Ha, my battalion did that. Commercial flight and everything.

Yeah, I remember the TSA having conniptions. OTOH, I would imagine that would be a difficult plane to hijack.

(Actually, if they were on the same kind of travel orders we were, they carried no ammunition, and their bolts were in their cargo pockets. So you would have 100 guys with very expensive bludgeons.)

[Puha Ekapi]

16. I am

a strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights, but these two clowns are just foolish and irresponsible to say the least.

[Geodude]

19. "We are not threatening anyone."

What a load of self-serving BS. Anyone who carries THAT around deserves as much police harassment as he or she can get.

[Recursion]

24. Whom are they threatening, and with what?

Even if you can't mentally get to that place, can you at least acknowledge that there really are people for whom the presence of a firearm is not frightening?

[Old and In the Way]

42. What if they were exercising their 2nd Amendment Right in Newtown, CT?

Would that be acceptable? Would someone who lost a child in that slaughter 2 weeks ago be held liable if they reacted negatively to that display? I know how I'd react to that if I had just buried a son or daughter...

[Recursion]

45. They're big enough assholes for doing this in Portland

and, yes, that would be worse. But this is a combination of political speech and the lawful bearing of arms (I don't know what the carry laws in CT are), and proves that even people exercising their rights are capable of being complete assholes.

[Old and In the Way]

52. "and, yes, that would be worse."

So this political speech trumps a mother/father that just buried their kids? Wow...I hope you have the opportunity those families had to bury your child, just so you can make the case that you still defend this form of political speech.

[Recursion]

54. Well, I hope you never have to bury a child, personally

Do you think the Westboro Baptist Church should have been legally barred from staging a protest in Newtown, too?

[Old and In the Way]

60. I could give a shit about WBC

Nice defllection, though.

You didn't comment on my point...if one of these 2nd Amendment, open carry nutbags killed your child dead on the street,,,would you still have such a cavalier attitude about the right to carry guns?

[Recursion]

62. It's two cases of distasteful political speech

Why is one different from the other?

[Old and In the Way]

64. reread my comment...please answer honestly.

WBC doesn't kill me with their hatred, bullets do.

[Recursion]

65. Oh, I have no idea what my attitude would be

I don't think anybody does.

[Old and In the Way]

72. Really? Seriously?

You don't know how you'd feel or think if some Ted Nugent-type nutbag, suddenly lost it and, for some unexplainable reason, decided to burp a clip of .223 rounds in your son or daughter? You have no idea? Really? Maybe you could make a compassionate and reasonable argument at your child's funeral...probably closed casket, cuz 10 rounds to the face makes for a rather ugly presentation.

because you don't think you know how you'd feel...I can tell you how I'd feel. But I suspect ypou don't have any kids because no parent would come up with your pathetic response.

[Recursion]

99. How I would feel and think

Obviously I'd be devastated. I've lost some friends in Iraq and I lost my girlfriend in high school to an asshole DUI, but other than that for the most part I haven't lost very many people (thank God).

The specific question upthread was would it change how I think about somebody's right to legally carry a gun? Conceivably; nobody knows how you change cognitively after a calamity, but I doubt I would focus on the two people exercising the right I disagreed with rather than the law that gives them that right in the first place.

[Old and In the Way]

109. So you'd be OK with someone gunning down your kids.

Gotcha...thanks for responding. Wouldn't want to screw with 2A!

[Recursion]

111. Given that that's the opposite of what I said, no

And I don't see the point of continuing this if you're going to be like that.

I currently think the legality of open carry is a public safety rather than a crime prevention issue. Outlawing open carry keeps idiots from accidentally shooting each other; it doesn't prevent murders and that's not what it's intended to do.

Would losing a child to gun violence change that view? I don't know; as it is I think the sentence above is just factual, would I still after a tragedy like that? I couldn't say.

[Old and In the Way]

114. Lets assume CT had open carry.

Adam Lanza would have been well within his rights until he stepped on the property and starting gunning down the children there. No crime record, right? problem is, if everyone open carries, there's no way of deciding who is nutz.

"Would losing a child to gun violence change that view? I don't know" Wow...just wow. The love of guns must be strong in you.

Perhaps we should have armed these children to protect themselves? Or, at the very least, turn our schools into prisons with guntowers so as to not allow RWNJ's with gun fantasies to act out their real life version of Call of Duty? Whatever...as long as we don't rethink our 2A rights!

[Recursion]

116. Well, CT not having open carry certainly didn't seem to help

Nor did its having an AWB.

Wow...just wow. The love of guns must be strong in you.

No, dude, I find guns tedious. I'm skeptical that legal limits on objects rather than behaviors are very effective.

Adam Lanza would have been well within his rights until he stepped on the property and starting gunning down the children there.

Well, no, since it's a school, he broke Federal and State law by stepping onto the property armed, not to mention the fact that the weapon was stolen and he had just killed his mother.

Schools as gun free zones is, again, a safety issue not a crime prevention issue. It keeps a dumbass teacher from accidentally firing his weapon in the teacher's lounge. It does not prevent murder and it's not intended to.

[Alisi]

148. That is false.

The gun free zones were passed as part of the crime control act of 1990. It had nothing to do with safety.

[kestrel91316]

155. How is anyone supposed to know those weapons are NOT

loaded and that the folks carrying them are NOT on their way to or from a mass murder?

Think about it. Now, in Portland, a potential mass murderer can stroll around and tell passers-by and cops that he's just exercising his rights and no one will be the wiser. Until he starts firing.

[Recursion]

156. That's the current law. Sounds like their education succeeded

Should openly carrying long guns in the city be illegal? Probably.

[kestrel91316]

159. There's no "probably" about it. It's shouting FIRE in a crowded theater at the least, and providing

cover to criminals at the worst.

Stupid people piss me off. Looks like the entire state of Oregon has gone stupid in voting to allow this crap.

[SheilaT]

32. And if someone else feels threatened enough to open fire on those two?

It will come to that, I'm sure.

[Recursion]

46. Who would feel threatened by an openly carried, shoulder-slung, unloaded rifle? (nt)

[Old and In the Way]

50. People who don't carry weapons.

Why is this so hard to understand? You want everyone to share in the paranoid fantasy of every RW, anti-socialist nutjob who has to carry a weapon, thinking everyone they meet on the street is their potential enemy? WTF kind of society do you want to create for this country?

[Recursion]

51. They're trolls. Calling the police is feeding them.

"See! People don't even realize we're exercising our legal rights! This is why we need to keep educating people!"

Yes, I do see your point. People who didn't grow up seeing people with firearms all the time probably do get freaked out about them. If my exposure to guns was Hollywood and TV I'd imagine they would freak me the hell out.

[Old and In the Way]

58. I don't know where you grew up, but I grew up in rural Maine.

If I want this kind of freedom, I'll move to Somalia.

[Recursion]

68. East Mississippi, in a small town

With summers in north Texas at my grandfather's farm.

Like I said, back there if I saw somebody carrying a rifle I doubt I would bat an eye. I would definitely bat an eye if I saw that here in DC, but then again it's illegal to do that here in DC. And we also have a much higher rate of gun violence.

[Old and In the Way]

80. Was everyone in your town carrying?

If we all have to carry weapons to be safe, none of us our safe.

Hunting was part of the local scene, but I never saw anyone, in town, carrying weapons to "educate" the folks in my town. Back then, we'd have considered these people "anti-socialists" and a threat to the well-being of the general population. Our local police would have dealt with them in the proper manner.

These people are not "educating"...they are intimidating....and a progressive society doesn't need these type of anti-social "educators" roaming the streets.

[Recursion]

83. No, not remotely

Particularly not in town, but it's not something that would be so rare as to make you stare.

Now, in Texas, everyone pretty much was carrying, because there were coyotes and snakes everywhere in that area.

[Old and In the Way]

100. Yeah, coyotes and snakes are big problems in high-density human population zones.

[Recursion]

103. You asked

I've said several times I feel differently up here in DC. And that unlike Portland, DC has made openly carrying rifles illegal, which probably makes sense for a city. Portland probably should too. But until then, it's legal and it's not hurting anybody.

[Old and In the Way]

115. Until it does hurt somebodies.

Then, of course, we'll have this same conversation again...and again...and again.

[theKed]

77. And if they didn't call the cops?

They get what they want anyways.
"See? Everybody's OK with people walking around with fucking assault weapons...what's all the moaning about?"

[Recursion]

78. Convince Oregon to change its laws

I don't think there's any need for legal open carrying of long guns, but as long as it's legal I don't see the point of whining about people who choose to do it.

[theKed]

82. Because it's fearmongering

I notice you didn't actually respond to what I said, though.

[Recursion]

84. Because I didn't see anything wrong with letting them "get what they want"

It might actually have been a good thing, because then they wouldn't feel the need to keep doing stupid shit like this.

[theKed]

86. Right. Cause then they'd be

walking down to pick up fucking milk with an AK on their back. Like real, civilized 'Muricans do.

[morningfog]

79. Most sane people.

[Old and In the Way]

105. Or, perhaps, fellow gun educators.

Personally, I think we should pick one state and let all of the gun fetishists/wannabe Wyatt Earps carry all the guns they can handle. Lets pick Texas for the social experiment. If it works well, we won't have to worry about these RWNJ's bothering the rest of us...they can educate and eradicate each other!

[Recursion]

106. Isn't that state Vermont? (nt)

[KansDem]

126. How would we know it was "unloaded?"...nt

[ManiacJoe]

128. Good question.

From the picture at the link, both rifles have the magazines inserted, highly suggesting that they are loaded.

[bowens43]

131. Anyone who has more common sense then a rock.

[Old and In the Way]

47. Yes, it will...probably in Florida.

And the NRA will know that they've been successful as the American people arm themselves with more guns to fight a war against each other. The more gun deaths we have, the more guns are sold. It's not about the 2A, it's about the bottom line for for their clients, the gun manufacturers in this country.

[ellisonz]

33. Gungeon thread on this asshat from last August:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117261818

Three banned RW Gun Trolls thought this guy makes sense and is not just a "shit-stirring" moron:

Response to Hoyt (Reply #36)
Wed Aug 15, 2012, 09:51 AM
PavePusher (15,374 posts)
59. Lawfully and peacefully exercising Constitutional Rights...

"is just begging a confrontation and symptomatic of a right wing jerk".

Well, that's certainly the mark of liberal thinking... Oh, wait, no it fucking isn't...

Response to ellisonz (Reply #1)
Wed Aug 15, 2012, 03:10 AM

Missycim (950 posts)
7. I don't think

its shit stirring to push the bounds of police comfort every now and again, as long as he followed the law I dont have a problem with this and neither should you. If you dont like the law get it changed.

Response to ellisonz (Reply #1)
Wed Aug 15, 2012, 09:36 AM

4th law of robotics (6,801 posts)
49. Could you provide a definition that can distinguish between defending your rights

and "shit-stirring".

Like if someone organizes a protest that gets kind of rowdy. Is that shit stirring or standing up for the first amendment?

If someone who is clearly guilty still insists on being granted their rights. . . is that shit-stirring?

[uponit7771]

34. wow

[defacto7]

43. Educate, my ass.

It's intimidation clear and simple. I don't care how nicey nice they may be. They are breaking clearly understood civil modes of conduct to intimidate. This is advertising the same bull shit that Alex Jones advocates.

[BeyondGeography]

48. All hail armed men of learning/attention whores

[Berserker]

49. I have

had guns for many years. I don't know why anyone would open carry a rifle other than to stir up shit. And that's what they did. They are doing more harm than good. Youtube is full of these videos.
I am positive the police have better things to do.

[kentuck]

53. They may as well be terrorists...

Who would know the difference??

[Recursion]

56. The whole lack of attacking people comes to mind (nt)

[JI7]

63. so we wait until they shoot someone ?

[Old and In the Way]

69. Don't be silly....

Spend thousands on better weapons and training to make sure you are quicker and surer than the person(s) who could be the next 2nd Amendment loving Adam Lanza(s)....that's what this "educational" exercise is all about. Wouldn't surprise me if the NRA is employing these "teachers".

[Recursion]

71. Somebody making no effort to conceal his weapon argues to me he's not trying to kill me with it

I do see people carrying handguns openly in Virginia a lot; I tend to assume they're off-duty cops.

[Old and In the Way]

88. Yeah, go argue with them that they're exhibiting RWNJ paranoid behavior

Wanna bet they won't use them? It's all about might makes right. I won't have any part of this anti-socialist bullshit. You obviously are an apologist who won't answer my question to you, upthread...why is that?

[Recursion]

89. Which question? I thought I had answered all the ones you asked, sorry. (nt)

[Old and In the Way]

97. No problem - post 72

I eagerly await your thoughtful response.

[theKed]

81. So people only become afraid

once the trigger is pulled? Gotcha.

[Recursion]

85. For me it would be some time before that

Like, if the rifle were unslung and loaded, for instance. But, no, I'm familiar enough with firearms that I don't find their mere presence frightening.

[theKed]

90. So you agree it is terrorism, then?

To commit an act with the intent of causing fear for political aims?

[Recursion]

93. No

I think they probably don't understand how viscerally and immediately upset guns make a lot of people.

Like, yes, I think they're trolling, but I don't know if they know how deep the shit they're stirring up in people is.

[theKed]

95. I disagree

But we will probably never know.

[Crunchy Frog]

118. Oh, I'm pretty sure that they do.

[MerryBlooms]

130. Considering Portland's December shooting at the Clakamas mall

I think the two trolling with their guns knew exactly what they were doing.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Shooting-Clackamas-Town-Center-183077691.html

[Old and In the Way]

91. You have no idea if the gun is loaded....

and you have no idea what their state of mind is. At least we have reasonable belief that a cop has had training and some psychological evaluations to accept their role as gun carriers in public. That is not the case for armed citizens walking around with weapons in a city setting. Chances are, these gun yahoo's are unstable because I don't know any normal people who are compelled to act this way.

[Recursion]

96. An AR? Sure I do. I can tell immediately

At least we have reasonable belief that a cop has had training and some psychological evaluations to accept their role as gun carriers in public

Not very much training, generally, for a regular beat cop. And cops have a higher crime rate than concealed-carry permit holders. But I'm white and not a teenager, so cops are generally nice to me.

[Old and In the Way]

107. But a pair of 22 YOs, you trust.

[neverforget]

61. I wonder why anyone would be threatened by them carrying weapons?

Does the public know their intent? Are they mentally stable? No wonder people call the police.

They may have the right to carry weapons openly, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea. They're being assholes too just to rub it into peoples faces.

[Coyotl]

145. Because we have a mass killing every week in the USA lately! D'oh!!

Because a high percentage of people have mental problems in industrial societies!

The list goes on ....

[TheProgressive]

73. A civilized, moral, ethical society would prohibit citizens from carrying assault weapons.

What are we? the wild wild west back in the cowboy days?

Grow up people. Elevate yourself to a higher level...

[lpbk2713]

87. Idiots ISO Chuck Norris.

Here's your sign ...

[marybourg]

92. Reminds me of the time the American Nazi party marched thru

Skokie, Ill., at that time a town heavily populated by Jews, many of whom were Holocaust survivors, asserting similar rights.

[Historic NY]

98. Normal people don't walk around with assault type weapons...

slung over their backs. Its something people living in Afghanistan or Iraq expect.

[Old and In the Way]

112. Plenty of guns in Somalia, too!

No taxes, too. It's a libertarian paradise. Roads suck and I'd probably wouldn't drink the tap water, but that's the price you have to pay to keep government off your back.

[grasswire]

101. earlier thread, not FOX

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022169961

[hughee99]

104. How many were killed?

Assault weapons kill people.

[agentS]

113. Well, count me as "educated" now.

Now I'm fully aware that Portland has some weirdos with high-powered rifles walking down the road, so soon after Newton massacre.
Now if they were going to a gun shop or other place where guns might be expected, then yeah it wouldn't bother me as much.
But now I know who to blame if there's gunshots in the area.

[Deep13]

117. I think they educated people about how loose the laws are.

Side note "military pattern rifles" or maybe "bass-ass wannahbe, but not rifle" is more accurate than "assault rifles," which are machine guns.

[go west young man]

119. This is just sad on so many levels.

Especially in light of all those poor little kids at Newtown Elementary School who lost their lives. These assholes with their over inflated ego's, small penis's and military style firearms are a disgrace to the memory of those poor children.

And to think in this culture we live in that walking around with these weapons in public is not going to freak people out. They both need a psychiatric evaluation and their guns taken away. We are definitely seeing a pattern lately. All the gun nuts are coming out of the wood work. The good news is they are exposing who they really are without us having to lift a finger. They are their own worst enemy. They are literally shooting themselves in the foot. Kinda remind me of the Tea Party. Oh wait they are the Tea Party.

[Beartracks]

122. Hey, gun-asses: Thanks for letting criminals know...

... they can sport their assault weapons in public and we're just supposed to assume they're law-abiding dickheads with big penis extensions guns.
===============

[ManiacJoe]

129. Criminals are not allowed to own guns,

let alone openly carry them in public. The cops tend to know who the local criminals are.

[Alisi]

149. Well that's a relief....

Too bad the vast majority of gun crimes are committed with legally obtained fire arms.

[TeamPooka]

151. good thing you think criminals won't do anything against the law. #deludedbutlovingit

if cops knew who all the crooks were they'd all be in jail.

[ManiacJoe]

158. Knowing who they are and

being able to legally arrest them are two different things. But you already knew that....

[uponit7771]

169. LOFL!!! Please put the sarcasm tag at the end just to make sure

[Kablooie]

125. Yes! Let's make all American towns like Fallijah! How delightful.

The right really is the American Taliban and they want all of America to model itself after the violent cities our troops have been fighting in.
I guess if the war ends overseas we can always keep it alive here at home.

[loose wheel]

132. This would have been perfectly normal in my neighborhood.

All of the neighborhood boys either had rifles (usually a .22 lever-action) or wanted them and hung out with those of us who did. We had gone about a two miles in the forest out behind the neighborhood and built a range that didn't face anything but a swamp. It wasn't anything fancy, but it was a place where we could go and shoot safely, and yes safety was of great value to us as we didn't want to lose our privileges to have the weapons.

The only way to get to the forest was to walk or ride through the neighborhood with the guns. Nobody ever thought to call the cops, and nobody ever got hurt.

Later in High School, it was very well known that most of the trucks in the parking lot had hunting rifles (some of which were cousins of AR-15s) behind the seats during deer season. Most of the male students went hunting before and after school. Oddly enough, that school has never had a shooting.

[Evasporque]

137. WHen are these nutjobs going to be declared "bad guys"?

I am more afraid of the assault weapon nuts than I am criminals.

[Recursion]

139. When they break a law

I am more afraid of the assault weapon nuts than I am criminals.


Why?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

140. Good Plan, Dumbasses...

Now when people see a man with a gun, they'll be so desensitized to the site that they'll not call police, giving the next potential Adam Lanza the option of not having to use stealth in approaching his victims.

Oh, look. There's a man with a gun, but I'm sure his just another law-abiding citizens trying to educate me. BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

Genius. Pure genius. I wonder if these guys walk around wearing full hazmat suits when there's no hazardous conditions?

Just wondering.

[Mr Dixon]

142. SMH

This is a classic sign of a fearfully society going mad.

[Paladin]

143. This Was A Rank Display Of Public Intimidation, Nothing More, Nothing Less.

You Gun Enthusiasts can keep claiming that "an armed society is a polite society," but those of us in the Real World haven't bought that tired old line for a long time. Incidents like this one in Portland account for that. If you people spent more time promoting proper gun handling and safety, and less time blindly and constantly supporting openly-armed punks like these two guys, you might not be on the edge of the socio-political cliff you're on now, with only the likes of Ted Nugent for support. A thread about gun safety would die of loneliness in the DU Gun Control/RKBA or Outdoor Life groups, and you damn well know it. Your losses are your own work.

[wildeyed]

144. Between this and the CEO who threatened to start killing people,

I am learning that some gun owners really are scary and should not be allowed to have them!

[Skidmore]

146. At some point, one of these hyperaggressive gun worshippers is going to

literally go off and start shooting people just because they can have a gun. These people do not make our communities safer and they are no different than terrorists. There is not one bit of difference in this type of intimidation and the Taliban strolling through a neighborhood in Afghanistan with their weapons on display to remind that they can be killed for disagreeing with them.

[MineralMan]

147. If I see a couple of young guys walking down my neighborhood

street here in St. Paul, MN, carrying weapons on their backs, I will know whether they live in the neighborhood right away. If they do not, I will be calling 911 immediately, and then I will take my shotgun out and observe them from inside my home.

There is no possible reason for two young men who are strangers to my neighborhood to be walking openly armed here. No reason at all. I will, indeed, be alarmed by that, and I will expect the police to be there in just a couple of minutes.

[kestrel91316]

153. In the US in 2013 these buffoons think people should just walk up to somebody with

an assault rifle and start asking them questions???? Are they insane???? How is a person supposed to know that they aren't some mass murderer en route to a killing spree or in the midst of one?????????

Sorry. I'm gonna call 911 100% of the time if I see that.

[malaise]

157. I can't wait for Fox's reaction when armed Muslims walk outside their office to teach them

about racism and bigotry

[billh58]

160. Aside from the obvious

stupidity and arrogance of these NRA-supporting asshats, they are no different from the "tree of liberty needs watering with blood" imbecile who made the headlines a few years back. This is a NRA-backed and supported publicity stunt which could have ended in the death of an innocent bystander.

Our very own Gungeon dwellers are applauding this stunt, and the Koch Brothers and their NRA puppets are already planning their next "in your face" demonstration of juvenile immature acts to draw attention to their faux "patriotism." These clowns should be arrested and locked up for terroristic threatening and disturbing the peace.

[gulliver]

165. Oh they're educating people all right.

I hope they keep doing it. I really do. They're definitely making themselves and their cause understood.

[Initech]

168. Scaring the shit out of people =/= educating them.