We will not get effective gun control measures in this country at this time

[cali]

Anyone who thinks the House will pass the measures that the President is demanding today, is living in a fantasy world. Anyone who thinks the will of the American people, which is decidedly not uniform when it comes to gun control, can move us toward effective gun control, is deluding themselves.

This country is nowhere near the place it needs to be to enact meaningful gun control. Doesn't mean that the effort shouldn't be made, but realistically, it's not going to happen. The mystique of the gun culture holds to great a grip on the public.

[hlthe2b]

1. Thanks for that downer message. I wouldn't have guessed NY State would pass theirs.

I think we are making inroads. But, not if the media (and others) continually tell everyone it can't be done (just as was repeatedly done on DU as well with Health Care Reform).

People power can counter the ugly obstructive forces--if we let it and don't just give up.

[cali]

2. reality can indeed be a real "downer"

NY's measures didn't surprise me at all. But when I look at the overall lay of the land, I just don't see Congress passing meaningful legislation at this time. And to enact meaningful gun control, that's what it'll take. As I said, that's no reason not to press on and lay some groundwork and I think dems in the Congress absolutely should line up behind the President.

[stultusporcos]

10. NY Pubs are seeing the writing on the wall...if they want to keep their BS job

they have to do something or they will get voted out of office. Blue states are actively looking at clamping down on guns, red states are doing what they normally do; double down on the crazy because that is what the majority in the state want.

Not allowing a path for peaceful secession of a state is really going to bite the more liberal states on the ass someday. Not because the red states will attack, they could but unlikely, but because the more liberal states will finally reach the point of being tired of the red state ass hats and will just want to get away from them once and for all.

[Fumesucker]

13. The blue state, red state meme vastly oversimplifies the actual situation

[stultusporcos]

16. BS

The divide is much deeper then people will admit to and that only reflects the about 55% of American's who even bother to vote.

Reality is not in manipulated stats, I see and hear what is happening on the ground.

People need to Wake the F- Up as they say.

Most days I feel like one of the few who can really see what is going on and everyone else is clueless, just like in that Twilight Zone…….

[Fumesucker]

37. Eh, I say it's complicated and you disagree with me

Evidently you think things are simple.

[stultusporcos]

39. Actually most things are simple but people tend to make things more complex than

they need to be.

[Fumesucker]

40. Yeah, hire teenagers while they still know everything n/t

[Sherman A1]

3. We might not, but does that mean we should not try?

The first steps may not be terribly effective, but there must be first steps in any of life's efforts.

[cali]

4. Absolutely we should try, but we have an obstructionist House

All we can do at this point is go strongly on the record.

[Sherman A1]

6. We will see

You may be right, however even if the final product is very flawed in the minds of many (and it certainly will be by both sides of the debate) progress towards some limitations may very well be made.

[cali]

7. From what I'm reading, it won't even make it to the House floor

Before President Barack Obama can even launch his campaign-style blitz for new gun control measures, there are strong indications that any comprehensive legislation restricting weapons and ammunition won’t even see a vote on the House floor.

Interviews with multiple House Republicans from the Midwest and Northeast reveal almost zero appetite to vote on any sort of sweeping gun bill. In the month after the school shooting in Newtown, Conn., none have brought up the issue with Speaker John Boehner. Without internal pressure from such center-right Republicans, and given his difficulties with restive conservatives in his conference, Boehner would seem to have little political incentive to move on guns.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/house-shows-little-appetite-for-gun-reform-86251.html#ixzz2I8Hgr5GK

[Sherman A1]

18. Perhaps not, however there are work arounds

such as....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014370294

and the divesture movement that seems to be just starting.

[Turbineguy]

5. Oh thank goodness!

Won't anyone think of the Undertakers? The Gravediggers? The NRA would not want you to break their rice bowl.

[malaise]

8. And the Obama election will be much closer than

you folks are suggesting.

OK then.

[cali]

9. I suggest you take a look at the House

start by reading this:

Before President Barack Obama can even launch his campaign-style blitz for new gun control measures, there are strong indications that any comprehensive legislation restricting weapons and ammunition won’t even see a vote on the House floor.

Interviews with multiple House Republicans from the Midwest and Northeast reveal almost zero appetite to vote on any sort of sweeping gun bill. In the month after the school shooting in Newtown, Conn., none have brought up the issue with Speaker John Boehner. Without internal pressure from such center-right Republicans, and given his difficulties with restive conservatives in his conference, Boehner would seem to have little political incentive to move on guns.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/house-shows-little-appetite-for-gun-reform-86251.html#ixzz2I8Hgr5GK


What part of it won't even come to the floor is so very hard to digest?

And your comment about the election has exactly zero to do with this- but thanks for tossing such a classic red herring into the mix.

[hlthe2b]

11. No one here is naive' nor needs the condescending attitude....

as displayed by the comment "what part of it won't even come to the floor is so very hard to digest"...

But, I think many here resent the implication we should not even try. Nothing has been won against these recalcitrant RETHUGS (including getting Hurricane Sandy relief passed) without the intense pressure of the public and media against them. We may not get much, but even incremental steps and increasing pressure will have benefits--even if it is only getting some of the ugliest viewpoints on record for the more moderate voters in their districts in time for 2014.

Your solution--just bemoan the situation and walk away? Really? Tell that to the 20 sets of parents (or the parents, sisters, brothers, family members, and friends of any of the countless gun-related violence victims in this country).

I'm in this for the long haul. I will NOT give up.

[laundry_queen]

36. Ditto everything you just said. nt

[malaise]

12. It was your classic red herring n/t

[Recursion]

23. An omnibus that includes a brand/feature ban can't come to the floor

However, since that's the least important part of the legislation, that's a good reason to jettison it and work on the ones that can come to the floor (or jettison it as a way to get it on the floor, or whatever).

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. ROFL

That's gonna leave a mark.

[malaise]

45. The non-stop pessimism gets to me

[KharmaTrain]

14. Any Progress...

I'm probably as cynical about any real long term gun control and enforcement coming out of what's going on as you are. You're right that there aren't the votes for some of the most important and effective means to deal with gun madness in this country...bans on high capacity clips, semi-auto weapons and closing a lot of the loopholes in laws. There's still a lack of political will to take the NRA full-on, BUT...maybe, just maybe we have turned a corner. Maybe we will get a watered down bill that creates a national database or closes gun show loopholes (and I'm sure new ones will be written into the legislation)...but at least it'll be turning a corner...the first gun legislation in 20 years.

Just like with healthcare, many felt there was no way anything would move past the legislative a couple years ago, but we saw different. Albeit, it wasn't a perfect bill, it's a starting point that can and will be refined in a positive direction in the future (single payer), maybe the same can happen in regards to getting the gun madness in this country under some kind of control.

The ultimate answer is within our society itself...to turn that gun culture into a threat to our public health...

Cheers...

[Recursion]

22. Banning semi-automatic weapons is not on anybody's radar

And the fact that our base thinks that that is what the AWB does is a part of the problem.

[Recursion]

15. It should be introduced piecemeal

The requirement for background checks for all sellers can probably pass. Even the NRA is notionally on-board as long as privacy concerns are addressed.

The ban on high-capacity magazines will be tougher, but is conceivable.

The useless and silly AWB won't make it out of committee in the House.

This is actually a decent political situation: the easiest thing to pass (universal background checks) is also the most important; the hardest thing to pass (the AWB) is pointless anyways.

[bullwinkle428]

28. "...the NRA is notionally on-board" - Okay, I have to call bullshit on this one. David

Keane just spewed a bunch of crap this morning in an interview, claiming the NRA was opposed to ANYTHING that resembled a "national gun registry", as he said it would make "confiscation" much easier to do down the road.

[Recursion]

29. That's not a national gun registry

They don't want the government to have a list of who owns what guns. Universal background checks don't give them that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. AWB won't make it to the floor, but universal background checks and anti-trafficking are the

important provisions. Limitation on magazine capacities will squeak through because of public pressure.

Anti-trafficking is the real, major, and new part that will be tremendously effective at reducing gun violence in urban areas. The so-called "responsible" gun owners, and especially gun store owners, in Indiana and downstate Illinois will have to stop making massive profits by acting as the conduit in the legal to illicit market pipelines. These people are getting rich on the misery of the South and west sides of Chicago, and most of them should be in federal prison. With anti-trafficking, they will cut the shit, or they will go to federal prison, and that's a great thing for the people of the most afflicted neighborhoods. That's reality: white gun store owners knowingly feeding the gangs, killing brown and black kids for profit, and then having the fucking nerve to gleefully laugh at Chicago's tough gun laws and call them "ineffective," while they cash their blood money checks and send a portion to the NRA. They're fucking criminals, and with anti-trafficking, they will be in federal prison where they belong.

That's reality, and that is effective gun legislation, and it will pass.

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. Agreed. Those are the components that matter.

The rest is feel-good fluff that won't even cause a blip in violent crime rates. Universal background checks and anti-trafficking provisions have the potential to make a noticeable difference.

[hack89]

26. That is effective gun control and will help a lot. nt

[bullwinkle428]

30. I agree with everything in this post, with the exception of the final line, changing

"will" to "may".

[99Forever]

20. Well shit then...

... let's not even try and just let the slaughter continue.

Fucking brilliant.

Surrender monkey much?

[Robb]

21. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

[cali]

24. how am I wrong and please do list all of the things I've been wrong about. In detail

or you could just stop being full of....

[Squinch]

27. Shall we review the 5 fundamental NRA talking points about gun control?

1. It's a conspiracy by corporations to distract you. (It can't possibly have anything to do with 20 dead children!)
2. Nothing can be done, so you might as well not try. Sometimes worded, "you are too insignificant, give up."
3. (And this is my favorite) Spoons kill more people than guns. (Or cars, or whatever. But really, the "spoons" argument just kills me.)
4. It isn't the guns, it's the mental health system
5. We need the high capacity guns in case the government gets uppity.


This OP falls under the category of #2.

I propose that in the future, instead of wasting time actually writing out the talking points, we henceforth refer to them by number.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. The EOs will be done this week, we shall have to see for the rest of it

The weapons themselves will not happen. Magazine restrictions would be on the bubble IMO.

[Javaman]

32. Thanks debbie downer. why hope, right?

so just throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to any sort of gun control, even the smallest measure, right?

oy vey.

[1-Old-Man]

33. You are correct, but in trying we have reinforced the myth "Democrats only want to take our guns"

Who can deny it?

[99Forever]

35. Your concern is noted.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Puzzledtraveller]

34. Even Reid knows this.

[One_Life_To_Give]

38. Gang Disarming doesn't seem to be a central theme

I have heard very little about handgun violence in these proposals. Nor how do we prevent the drug addict from bartering guns for drugs. Dealing with claims of "It was stolen" etc.

[Puzzledtraveller]

41. I've thought the same thing

I believe we have mostly had this suburban image when we think of gun violence and needed measures to reduce it but their are whole armys out there when you get into gangs. I always think of this when confiscation is brough up.

[RomneyLies]

42. If there's not a ban on high capacity magazines

I expect more mass shootings of the Loughner variety using handguns and high capacity magazines.

That may end up resulting in real effective gun safety measures.

I think all that's needed is effective registration of all guns. I also believe some of the onus must be placed on manufacturers to provide example bullets fired from each weapon and associated with the serial number so the FBI can start an effective database of how a gun scores a bullet much the same way as they save fingerprints.

[theaocp]

43. Remember what Reid said:

he won't bring anything up in the Senate that doesn't have a chance in the House. Way to cave to the Republicans.

[Cali_Democrat]

44. Just like you said Obama would lose Virginia and Florida

Why should we listen to you? You have no credibility as far as I'm concerned. Thank gawd the Administration and other Americans are doing their best to try and curb gun violence even while folks like you sit on the sidelines with your arms folded. Pessimism is very unbecoming.

[forthemiddle]

46. It's not just the House either.

Harry Reid basically said "forget about it".
There are too many Democrats from rural areas too even attempt any new gun control laws at this time.

I live in a rural part of Wisconsin, and guns here are a way of life. They are not scary murdering tools, they are just tools. Everyone I know has some sort of gun, and a huge amount of them have been passed down through the generations. Everyone has one of Grandpas old guns, so they aren't registered. And I don't think the people around here will be lining up to register them if it comes to that. They plan to pass them down to their kids when they die, and don't want the government interfering with that.

You have to understand the mindset around here. There has not been a murder in my town with a gun in over 20 years. There was one with a hammer though.........