I changed the channel when Battle Hymn of the Republic started

[MotherPetrie]

The inauguration should be a secular ceremony.

As it is, it's like a Christian revival meeting.

Turned off and tuned out.

[samsingh]

1. good

[TheDebbieDee]

255. I'm not real religious anymore either, BUT those choir members sang their a$$e$ off!

The soloist was duh BOMB and that was the most beautiful version of that song I've ever heard!

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Cool story.

[WilliamPitt]

3. Thanks for sharing.

<------------------------------------

[lonestarnot]

4. Then you missed something spectacular.

Whateva.

[MotherPetrie]

11. As a non-Christian, I only missed feeling marginalized.

[MineralMan]

130. I've been an atheist for over 40 years.

However, I recognize that many people have religious beliefs. I'm not insulted by those beliefs. I just don't share them. I can't imagine why I'd feel marginalized by a song. That's just stupid.

You missed a great ceremony, capped by a memorable speech by our President. Too bad for you.

[dmr]

235. +1

[trof]

270. I'm also an atheist, but I teared up.

I can't explain it.
That song, when done like that, just gets me.
I don't agree of subscribe to anything in the lyrics, but it still grabs me.
And I'm a 'Reb'.

So does Amazing Grace, especially when done by bagpipes.

[ashling]

316. Amazing Grace is fine, but

I never cared for the bagpipes thing.

[trof]

325. Maybe it's an an aquired taste?

[Whisp]

276. well said, Mr. MM. Perfect.

[rbixby]

149. Its too bad that other people's beliefs offend you so much

I'm sorry.

[Warpy]

214. Christians are blind and deaf to this

Our government was designed to be secular for a reason, so no one would feel slighted or marginalized whatever spiritual path they were on.

Christians are so certain of everything (being in a majority tends to do this) that they don't realize how arrogant this is and how many people are starting to realize they won't get any sort of a fair deal from this government because they are simply not approved of by Christians.

I realize this is an attempt to wrest god away from the iron grip of the Republicans while honoring the believers who fought against slavery. Unfortunately, it's having the opposite effect on non Christian Americans, a minority that grows every day.

Since Obama, himself, is a believer, I'd expect him to thank providence during his inauguration speech. However, holding this much of a Christian tent meeting is distasteful, diminishing both church and state.

[politicat]

241. +1000

[Egalitarian Thug]

269. No, the original reply that spawned this sub was intentionally offensive.

The deluded feel it necessary to belittle those that don't share their fantasy. They have no facts or logic to argue in favor of traditional delusions and since they can't kill us any longer, this is what they got.

It does, however, work to our favor over the long term since our minority is growing most rapidly in younger demographics and these back-handed insults are remembered.

[cleanhippie]

12. Sure, spectacular pandering.

[forestpath]

42. The assumption that everyone believes in God is not "spectacular."

[Swamp Lover]

252. I agree.

beautiful song.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. The battle hymn is not a religious piece of music

Even with all words, but you knew that.

[MotherPetrie]

15. The hell it isn't

[cleanhippie]

16. "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!"

No, nothing religious there.

[Brickbat]

43. Have you read the words lately?

[forestpath]

45. Bullshit.

[WolverineDG]

74. It's an abolition tune

but don't confuse them with the facts......

[Brickbat]

82. Some reports say the tune came from camp meetings, and then was sung as "John Brown's Body."

There were many variants, some risque. A call went out to clean the tune up, and Julia Ward Howe came up with the Battle Hymn of the Republic. It's full of apocalyptic imagery meant to tie the outcome of the Civil War with divine justice. Which, yeah, is pretty damn religious.

[WolverineDG]

105. Since the majority of abolitionists were Christians

would you expect anything less?

Many hymns carry significance in the African American community precisely because of their use in the abolition movement: Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, The Gospel Train, Amazing Grace, Battle Hymn of the Republic, those are just the ones I'm aware of....

[Brickbat]

129. Which doesn't change the fact that they're religious.

[dipsydoodle]

254. Still that in the UK

John Brown.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Exactly.

[Occulus]

101. "In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea"

Nope, nothing overtly religious about it.

You are obviously, spectacularly wrong in your opinion.

Demonstrably so. With bells on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. An abolitionist tune

That reference is to slaves, but you did not know that I s'pose.

Proper today.

[Occulus]

140. I knew that very well. Having performed it myself numerous times, I probably am more aware of that

than you are.

I didn't deny the slavery reference. That does not exclude, or in any way modify, the overtly religious nature of the piece.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. Not gona re type this

Response to cynatnite (Reply #133)Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:43 AM
nadinbrzezinski (115,179 posts)
143. Patriotic




And it took those overtones during the civil war, not the present. The transformation for it into a deeply patriotic song took place during that very bloody civil war. It's origins are with the abolitionist movement as you correctly note.

It's also a hymn in the African American community. I don't know about you, but this is an African American President being inaugurated. This choice by Schumer, he is the one who chose it, is a nod to the community from a Jew.

So if one gets all those historic nuances, I can forgive them of using it. And Lord knows I know exactly where I lost my faith in a higher power. I also know we are not gong to have a ceremony like oh...Mexico's. our separation of Church and State is not that strict. Nor ave we fought several bloody civil wars over the issue either.

[cynatnite]

133. Well, it does have a smack of "end times" fervor...

Abolitionists, including John Brown, used religion to further their cause. The song was to be a sort of judgment against the wicked. It was inspired by "John Brown's Body".

If you look at it from a purely historical POV, you could argue that it's not religious.

Given how it's used today, it is a very religious and patriotic piece of music.

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. Patriotic

And it took those overtones during the civil war, not the present. The transformation for it into a deeply patriotic song took place during that very bloody civil war. It's origins are with the abolitionist movement as you correctly note.

It's also a hymn in the African American community. I don't know about you, but this is an African American President being inaugurated. This choice by Schumer, he is the one who chose it, is a nod to the community from a Jew.

So if one gets all those historic nuances, I can forgive them of using it. And Lord knows I know exactly where I lost my faith in a higher power. I also know we are not gong to have a ceremony like oh...Mexico's. our separation of Church and State is not that strict. Nor ave we fought several bloody civil wars over the issue either.

[cynatnite]

150. I'm not crazy about the song, but based on your points...

I can see why it was chosen. Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

158. You welcome.

I wish we could have a truly secular ceremony, but that ain't gonna happen.

I have watched both the simple secular ceremonies in Mexico, president and successor walk into the Well of the Senate, the oath is taken, and a flag like thing is placed on the new occupant, the symbol of office is placed on the new President. Then a speech may or may not be delivered from the office...that's it. No gala ball, no inauguration parade...it's almost like any other day, and no references to God anywhere.

Then the American ceremonies. In an economic crisis the expense is a tad galling. And we need to find a new balance. But god ain't leaving.

The last point as far as this President is concerned, he likes to model himself on Lincoln.

[geek tragedy]

6. Want some cheese with that whine? Nt

[MotherPetrie]

18. I want LESS Chees-us

[Liberal_in_LA]

246. lol. The battle hymn was short, then they got back to business. but oath was on big bible

[cleanhippie]

77. Yeah, fuck anyone who doesn't believe, right?

[geek tragedy]

159. No, just those who wallow in victim hood

because someone utters the G word.

And I'm an agnostic/atheist btw.

[Occulus]

212. Think harder

Imagine a world where you couldn't get married and have no employment protections solely and only because of people who are part of the religion under discussion.

Imagine a world where you can't even have your marriage acknowledged as valid in every state, but only a few, solely and only because of people who are part of the religion under discussion, and even then, you do not receive the same benefits on both the Federal and state level, exclusively because of people part of the religion under discussion.

Imagine a world where the deity of the religion under discussion, and that religion's beliefs, are used as a sword against you and everyone like you every day. Imagine a world wherein you are a target of such people for maiming, mauling, and murder for that specific reason.

Now imagine people you thought were on your side putting that religion on a pedestal and calling its dross a virtue.

I am a victim of this religion and its adherents. Daily. Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, three hundred sixty-five days a year, and have been so for a long, long, long time.

I can indisputably prove that beyond any possible doubt, reasonable or unreasonable, as a point of law. I can prove it, beyond any question to any person, in multiple ways. It has directly and personally affected me for my entire adult life. And yes, it is damaging. Deeply.

I accept your apology in advance.

[geek tragedy]

244. The Battle Hymn is an anti-slavery song.

This is all a bunch of worthless whining. Why not bitch about MLK Jr's religious speeches while you're at it.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Odin2005]

321. Apparently we Atheists are not allowed to enjoy religious music.

The Battle Hymn is an Abolitionist song, for fuck's sake.

[HiPointDem]

258. why don't you save your ire for something that actually matters, like state funding to religious

schools & religious 'non-profits'?

bhotr is religious but religion isn't its main message, today or historically.

[JI7]

278. i don't believe in God and i find the OP stupid, reminds me of wingnuts crying about spanish

or some other language being spoken.

[llmart]

7. How petty.....

I feel sorry for you.

[HERVEPA]

65. I feel sorry for you that you can't understand that religion, and a specific religion, Christianity,

doesn't belong in this setting.

[llmart]

100. Then you'll have to feel sorry for our President too....

since he has invoked the theme of God in the ceremony himself.

I'm an avowed atheist, but I am in the minority and realize that I live in a democracy.

[HERVEPA]

108. The inauguration is for everyone, not just the majority

[llmart]

110. What a silly argument....

I still feel sorry for you. You just can't enjoy what a wonderful, historic moment this is without starting a silly argument about which music is appropriate.

[cleanhippie]

115. I feel sorry for you...

You seem to have lost the ability to see beyond your religious privilege.

[cleanhippie]

112. I DO feel sorry for him.

I think he is an unwilling victim of the religious majority in this country that would scream bloody murder if he failed to pander to them. Were he to simply omit those references, he would be lambasted until his last day in office. You know it, I know it, we all know it. We should ALL feel sorry for him.

[jeff47]

249. Did you feel sorry for gay people when they complained about Rick Warren last time? (nt)

[FSogol]

8. I stopped reading your post when I saw your Rudolph avatar

[CalFresh]

9. On radio it

sounds like a tea party meeting.

[bama_blue_dot]

182. Are you serious?

I think you are in the wrong place...

[Odin2005]

323. The Teabaggers wouldn't be singing an ABOLITIONIST song.

[Renew Deal]

10. You showed them

[Politicub]

13. Feel better?

[RedstDem]

14. No shortage of bankers lackeys up there either

what a citizen with a conscience to do?

[ChazII]

17. You missed a beautiful solo. n/t

[MotherPetrie]

23. Good

[Mrs. Overall]

19. But you were fine with the opening benediction?

Thanks for sharing your poutrage.

[MotherPetrie]

31. No, I wasn't fine with it. But Battle Hymn of the Republic pushed me over the edge.

ROFL, you trotted out "poutrage."

[Mrs. Overall]

35. Obama is taking his oath right now--thank goodness you have tuned out!!

[MotherPetrie]

44. I already saw his oath yesterday

[Mrs. Overall]

50. But he took his oath on a Bible yesterday--fuming about that?

[MineralMan]

20. OK. Do what you want.

I'm listening on the radio. I wouldn't miss the second inauguration of this President. Do whatever you want.

[NOLALady]

21. It was beautiful.

[sad-cafe]

22. you missed out then

it was beautiful.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. Too bad. It was a beautiful performance; the soloist had a gorgeous voice.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

27. I thought so too.

[Aristus]

30. Very pretty, too.

[MotherPetrie]

38. I'm sure it would have been fine -- IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH

Sung in front of Christian believers.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

61. I'm not a believer, either.

But I'm a member of a choir that performs a lot of religious music - some of the greatest music of the last thousand years was written for the Christian church. I'm not going to miss out on that magnificent music just because I don't necessarily accept the faith it represents.

"The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a piece of music that has great historic significance, probably much greater than its religious overtones. It is especially important to the black community, whose Christian faith was instrumental in furthering the civil rights movement. I can enjoy listening to an excellent performance of this music without feeling like my own religious beliefs (or lack of them) are somehow being disrespected.

[MineralMan]

137. Yup. I've been an atheist since 1965. But I've performed all manner

of religious music as a musician, from playing in orchestras to singing the Bass solos in Handel's Messiah several times. "For he is like a refiner's fire" is my favorite piece of vocal music to perform, although I no longer sing in public. I have zero problem with people's religious beliefs, and often attend concerts in churches when important musical works are being performed. I needn't believe to sing or play music.

Shallowness is a flaw. Much of our best art has a religious foundation. I don't have to believe to appreciate it.

[duffyduff]

302. Judy Garland gave a rendition of the song in honor of JFK

back during her 1963 variety show. It was one of the greatest performances of all time.

[JI7]

292. why ? non christians and atheists like myself enjoy listening to it also

should we be banned from hearing it ?

[No Vested Interest]

247. NPR thought is was so beautiful

they closed oout their live broadcast with a reprise of The Battle Hymn performance.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

25. Too bad, you missed an

incredible rendition and you're ignoring the significance of this hymn (and that uses the term lightly) to so very many African Americans.

I'm not a believer myself, but I have no problem with the fact their faith is what kept so many African Americans moving forward against incredible odds.

[HappyMe]

26. Good grief.

So you couldn't just listen to appreciate the choir.

[narnian60]

62. +1000

[Siwsan]

83. 100% agree with you

[In_The_Wind]

28. *!*

[img][/img]

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. Well ...

as others have noted, You missed quite a performance.

Can you not listen to a piece of art and not make it political?

[Buzz Clik]

33. +1. It's a performance, almost art.

Raging on about the use of music with the mention of God is every bit as misguided as raging about a permformance that does not mention God.

[treestar]

48. Exactly, tons of classical music

and opera would be thrown out if we looked at it the way the OP does. Has to ignore a lot of literature and art, too. Religion is part of history.

[MotherPetrie]

49. And I'll bet you would have stood up and cheered had Bush included this in his inaugurations

[Buzz Clik]

55. I did not watch the Bush unauguration.

That means you are dead wrong in your assumptions.

Shocking.

[MotherPetrie]

34. Not when I am NOT Christian and this is supposed to be

a secular ceremony representing all Americans.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. Well ...

It's your world to hear/see what one wishes ... no matter how egocentric.

[cleanhippie]

104. Those with religious privilege are loathe to recognize that fact...

a secular ceremony representing all Americans

Yeah, sure. Let me know when that happens.

[WinkyDink]

163. Who says?

[cleanhippie]

99. The fact that it was chosen to be part of this was political...

There is more going on than just a song, and if you can't see it, you missed quite a performance.

[1StrongBlackMan]

102. Okay n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

192. The only "performance" is going on in this thread

A lot of sour grapes today.

[thucythucy]

195. And might those be "the Grapes of Wrath"?

Just asking.

I think it's a beautiful song. Up there with "Ode to Joy" and "Mr. Tambourine Man."

Amazing performance as well.

[Buzz Clik]

32. That's what the remote is for.

Better than sitting and fuming.

[OKNancy]

36. many associate it with Lincoln

and the Emancipation Proclamation.
My Dad did ... we sang it at his funeral.

[whatchamacallit]

37. Inaugurations, coronations...

I'm indifferent to archaic rituals of entrenched power.

[Historic NY]

76. Dictators don't have inaugurations....

its a uniquely American transfer of the reins of government.

[forestpath]

39. I feel the exact same way. Sick of this religious stuff - this shouldn't feel like a

church service.

Don't care how beautiful the voices are. Religion does not belong in government no matter who is president!

[jberryhill]

52. There is no functional utility to an inauguration ceremony

It is purely a civil ritual. If you do not appreciate the role of ritual in human society, then you are correct, there is nothing for you in this one.

[forestpath]

64. Apparently you don't understand that it excludes a lot of people.

And that is just plain wrong.

[jberryhill]

90. No, it doesn't exclude anyone

Hearing The Battle Hymn of the Republic does not exclude anyone but those who are themselves intolerant. Based on a tune that was popularized as "John Brown's Body" after a man who died in the course of his plan to free slaves, it is a product of an American folk music tradition.

It became an anthem symbolizing the struggle which resulted in a more inclusive society, and it was the anthem of those who triumphed in that struggle.

As a cultural product of its time, it does indeed include references to a specific aspect of culture.

And it is unfortunate that you have missed the president's call to expand the inclusiveness of our society today.

You are as intolerant as those who ban Mark Twain novels from high schools because of cultural expressions they find offensive.

[forestpath]

94. You can't rationalize it with all your words and insults. It excludes people.

[name not needed]

124. Damn those pesky facts, *I* didn't get my pony!

[forestpath]

134. Christians can only seem to insult, why is that?

[forestpath]

152. I didn't call you a Christian. And I am not intimidated by your rage and threats.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

194. You sound like Sarah Palin right now

Seriously, this is the shit she retorts with when someone presents the facts and history behind anything involving the Obama Administration.

[JoeyT]

314. Yeah, sure.

Someone is being berated for objecting to the jesusification of absolutely everything, which makes THEM sound like Sarah Palin?

My god the amount of irony in that should've broken the internet.

Half of the screeching Sarah Palin does is about how oppressed Christians are and how terrible it is that Jesus is being taken out of everything. Sound familiar?

Edited to add: I didn't even object to the religious songs or references. I object to people climbing up on their crosses yet AGAIN when they're reminded that being the majority religion doesn't make them the only religion.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

319. Sorry, sir....

....but you're the one who missed the "irony" of that. Not that it's really irony, but anyway....

Someone pointed out facts and history of the song and it's usage, and the poster's reply was to claim they were personally insulted when they weren't. Because you know, facts and history are evidence, proof, and the way you make your case, but to people without a leg to stand on, it's an "attack". That's a classic Sarah Palin tactic.

HTH.

[Igel]

157. It excludes many.

But some of those it excludes you don't want to see as excluded.

Many of those it excludes you don't think should be included, anyway.

Consider how "we the people" is often used. It's absolutely exclusionary. The people, versus those who would oppres the people. However, the oppressors are also humans, and therefore people; they're also Americans, and therefore part of the people that matter.

We are told that nobody's equal until we have equal love, and we claim the mantle of righteousness. Then we hear words of triumphant hate and condescension for our political and class enemies. The message is incoherent without the right set of definitions, yet deemed coherent by the faithful and perceived as undisputed only because iconoclasts have a short half-life in any party, especially among the zealous.

[cleanhippie]

127. Oh, he knows, he just doesn't care.

HIS religious privilege is being preserved, thats all that matters.

[arely staircase]

261. the role of ritual in human society

i know, right?

for lovers of the humanities aof all kinds it was spectacular

[jberryhill]

264. Having sung in various choirs...

Golly, I must have sung all kinds of religious music that has utterly nothing to do with anything I believe. I'm boycotting myself from now on.

[jberryhill]

40. It's a historically significant song

How unfortunate we are to have the history we do.

[treestar]

41. I think it's OK

The song has historical value and patriotic value. Earlier Americans were very religious and we don't have to pretend that never was. And the choir really rocked it! Beautiful as a piece of music.

[panader0]

47. "So help me God"? Swearing in on a Bible?

The inauguration has always had these elements. Get over it.

[MotherPetrie]

54. Where did I mention those? Nowhere. YOU did.

[panader0]

71. I mention them because they are a part of the inauguration

As they have always been. Does swearing in on the Bible offend you too? Is this the first inauguration to disturb you?
Or have you always turned them off?

[MotherPetrie]

114. Nice try.

[jeff47]

164. Actually, they aren't.

Or more to the point, they are not formally part of the inauguration. Washington added them on his personal preference, and everyone after him have been too terrified of the religious to remove them.

[jeff47]

162. Yes, those two should also be removed

So your argument is because religion is shoved into the ceremony in a variety of ways we should just shut up and be happy with it?

Ya know, them dark folks had their very own drinking fountains. They really shouldn't have complained about not being able to use all of them. It was no big deal.

[rhett o rick]

51. I can appreciate your sentiments but find it rude to try to bring others down. nm

[MotherPetrie]

57. Too fucking bad

[rhett o rick]

63. Have you ever heard of Dale Carnegie? nm

[WilliamPitt]

79. My hero.

[jberryhill]

118. Martin Luther King Jr. must have really irritated you

...with his constant Biblical allusions.

"I may not get there with you, but I have seen the promised land", for example, was a reference to Moses not entering Canaan, and is, to you I suppose, offensive to Palestinians.

[chillfactor]

205. I cannot find the words

to say what a disgusting individual I think you are......you are entitled to your own beliefs but you do not have the right to insult others and swear at them just because your brain is in stall mode....you remind me of a two-year old having a temper tantrum....

[forestpath]

69. Wow. So we have to keep quiet so we don't make others feel bad?

[rhett o rick]

197. I think the OP was rude and counter productive to the argument

that the ceremony should be secular. Didnt look to me like the OP wanted a decent discussion on the subject only to be disruptive.

[forestpath]

202. And I think much of the response was so ugly and insulting that no discussion would ever

be possible no matter what tone was taken.

[rhett o rick]

203. Exactly. That's why I thought it wasnt an appropriate time to bring

up the discussion if a decent discussion was the intent.

[jeff47]

210. Yes, that chap marching in the street around Selma was just so disruptive

He should have just backed off instead of being so confrontational.

...Or so said a whole lot of people at the time. But hey, it's got a long tradition with the women's rights movement, LGBT rights, and pretty much everyone else who tries to fix anything in our country.

[rhett o rick]

216. Huh? Are you trying to equate the OP with the Civil Rights struggle? Good grief.

You have failed to indicate where you stand on the issue the OP brought up.

[jeff47]

253. You couldn't figure it out from the post?

I'm saying starting with a controversy over a bigoted preacher, then having the ceremony open with a prayer, contain many references to God, swearing on a Bible, include hymns, close with a prayer, to be followed with an official lunch that opens with a prayer, contains many references to God, and closes with a prayer might be a tad much for government ceremonies in a country that separates church from state.

[rhett o rick]

257. I absolutely agree with you. My only complaint was that I dont think it

is necessary to get in a fight about it today. I think it is counter productive.

[jeff47]

262. You get in a fight when it happens.

When, exactly, do you think the fight should happen? Weeks later when people will respond with "oh, get over it"?

Now, I'm not saying anything big needs to be done. Just a "huh....that's a lot of God in a secular ceremony. Maybe we shouldn't do that."

Big will have to happen after people realize there's a problem.

[WinkyDink]

299. Guess what? The Civil Rights leaders were MINISTERS. Get over yourself.

[jeff47]

309. Relevance?

I really don't care if they were ministers or plumbers.

People told them to shut up and stop making a fuss. Just like you are here.

[jeff47]

165. Yeah, the seats at the back of the bus still get to the same destination, right? (nt)

[rhett o rick]

201. Are you trying to be cute and support the OP? If so, do you support the

argument that the ceremony should be secular? or the intent to be disruptive?

I think the ceremony should be secular but believe the OP is counter productive to that argument.

[jeff47]

204. The ceremony should be secular

"Oh, it's not that bad, you should just let this one go" is the same argument used against every single civil rights movement. Such as women, blacks, LGBT, and so on.

In every case, there was a large number of supporters who insisted that now was not the right time, or that a particular affront was not a big deal. And then next one wasn't a big deal. And the next one, and the next one.

[rhett o rick]

217. I think you broke the record for most logical fallacies in one post. Go bother someone

else please.

[jeff47]

250. Just like those pesky gays getting upset about Rick Warren, right?

They really needed to stop pestering your beautiful mind, huh?

[rhett o rick]

265. You lost me at hello. nm

[jeff47]

267. Because you think I'm talking about you?

This isn't about you. This is about our country. It's a slightly larger issue than you.

[JI7]

280. Rick Warren is a Gay Basher who wants Gays to be killed, how the fuck is

that comparable to the OP ?

[jeff47]

285. It's comparable because people told gays to shut up or it wasn't the time.

Just like here.

Do I need to quote Republicans threatening physical harm to atheists to justify it to you, or do you think we might wanna actually follow the Constitution without keeping a score card?

[JI7]

288. context Matters , complaining about someone who wants to kill gays is not the same to me

as complaining about some reference to God. just because both involve complaining.

Bush lied about War, Clinton lied about sex. to you it's the same since they both involve lies.

[davidthegnome]

218. There is a significant difference

In those instances, it really WAS bad. If I went to a public event around Christmas time and babbled about Santa and his reindeer, people would roll their eyes, laugh - and probably think I was drunk. I can't see a lot of people getting really upset about it though. Of course, there are some who find imagination itself offensive, even some that I hold in high regard.

What's the alternative? Strictly enforce that there be no reference to God or religion during the inauguration? Perhaps one day there will be a President that makes it a secular event by choice, but it should be by choice and not by law. No one is being forced to pray, believe in, or approve of anything. No one is being forced to take part in the event.

I'm not religious, I'm not a believer, I'm also not really concerned about it. I don't see it as being deliberately offensive against (nor intended to intimidate) those who are not religious, or not believers. I honestly don't understand what is upsetting or oppressive about it.

[jeff47]

242. It's just words?

Because people like me don't get fired for not "just going along" with the prayer at a company function. I dared to not lower my head.

While that is nowhere as bad as a lynching, it's still far more damaging than words. And nothing like your straw man about Yule-turned-Christmas.

Perhaps one day there will be a President that makes it a secular event by choice, but it should be by choice and not by law.

Would it be acceptable for the President to refer to the lazy "n-words" in the audience? Why not? It's his choice.

While I'm not militant enough to demand a law, there should be some acknowledgement that such activities are exclusionary.

I honestly don't understand what is upsetting or oppressive about it.

An enormous number of atheists live in areas that are not particularly religious. As such, being an atheist is not a big deal. Kinda like being latino in Los Angeles isn't gonna result in a lot of discrimination. But move that same latino to Mississippi, and things will be different.

[JI7]

282. your comparisons are pathetic, comparing saying the N word to someone mentioning God

[jeff47]

283. They're just words. According to you, that means they're just fine. (nt)

[JI7]

284. one is hate speech, just mentioning God in itself is not hateful, that was the problem with Rick

warren, not that he was christian or mentioned God but that he was an anti gay piece of shit who wanted to kill gays.

[jeff47]

287. Yet they're still just words.

One doesn't have to keep a score card of outrage in order to consider a complaint valid or not.

We could actually follow our founding principles instead of saying "shut up because I haven't heard of enough discrimination against you".

[JI7]

289. you are the one saying it's just words because you lost the argument

with your comparisons to gays blacks women being denied rights to someone making reference to God being equally offensive to Atheists.

[jeff47]

293. No, I'm referring to everyone else in this thread

who seems to feel that prayer is "just words".

to gays blacks women being denied rights to someone making reference to God being equally offensive to Atheists.

So, "shut up, woman!" would be offensive to you, but "shut up, atheist" is just fine?

My, how open-minded of you.

[JI7]

294. depends on the context, if a woman used "shut up woman" against a friend

of hers in a joking way i wouldn't care.

but not sure what reference to God has to do with "shut up atheist" or "shut up woman". your arguments are getting lame it's like saying the inauguration is anti woman because the person being inauguration is a man.

[jeff47]

295. So you're unable to read anything else in this thread?

There's tons of posts in this thread, including several by you, which boil down to "shut up, Atheist".

it's like saying the inauguration is anti woman because the person being inauguration is a man.

No, the equivalent would be saying "thank God we're inaugurating a man instead of a woman".

(And yes, I went for a two-fer there)

[JI7]

298. equivalent to what ? how about the Poet saying Namaste ?

did you get offended at that ?

should christians,muslims, jews, feel offended at that ?

[davidthegnome]

304. I'm an agnostic from northern Maine

When I was growing up, most of my neighbors were very strict baptists - the sort that didn't believe in dancing. I was raised Catholic myself - and there was constantly some kind of argument going on between baptists and Catholics. Being a boy, I didn't understand it terribly well. As I got older I realized that nearly every branch of Christianity is closed minded, judgmental, ignorant. I became a very angry atheist at the age of 14 and was frequently getting into shouting matches with my Father about it. I felt that I had been brainwashed, forced to go to a church and become a member of a cult of idiots and sheep. I was young, I was arrogant, I was foolish. The intention of my parents was the important thing - they brought me up Catholic because they felt it was a good way to instill moral values, to make me someone honest and good.

As I get older, I continue to have a strong prejudice against religion and the religious. Yet I realize that bias for what it is - my own ignorance, my own judgment, my own mind closing up. There really isn't anything wrong with someone displaying faith in public, provided they aren't using it as a means to intimidate or oppress another group, which in this case I don't think they were.

It's perfectly fine, even perhaps, righteous, to be intolerant of intolerance. Yet there is such a thing as an innocent display of faith, tradition. I may think of it as nonsense, but it's not my faith. So long as no one tries to ram it down my throat I'm fine with it. This is why I listen to Jehovah's Witnesses when they knock on my door. I completely disagree with most of what they say, but there's no harm in being polite and listening.

Perhaps I'm odd in that regard. I can remember very clearly a Catholic Priest telling me I would go to hell, or that the devil was having a "hayday with me" because I began to question my faith. I remember Baptists who lectured me on sin - and the millions of things that were sins, I remember them explaining to me that I'd go to hell if I didn't accept Christ as my lord and Savior. It sure made me angry - and others have even more right to be angry, but not necessarily at all religion and at anyone who practices it.

No, live and let live is generally my philosophy. I just don't see a point in getting angry about religious traditions in an inaugural ceremony, it's a tradition that's much older than our Country and it's generally innocent.

[jeff47]

310. And few passing mentions would get a similar response from me.

But we're talking about an official ceremony that:
started with a prayer
contained an oath with a prayer tacked on to the end
contained a speech with several references to God
contained hymns
closed with a prayer

which was then followed by an official lunch that:
started with a prayer
contained lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of references to God in speeches
ended with a prayer

That's an awful lot of religion in official ceremonies for a country that's supposed to separate church and state.

And my goal isn't to ban God from such ceremonies, but to ask: "do we need to add this much God to this?"

[davidthegnome]

311. I agree in principle

I just can't understand getting really upset about it.

Do we need that much God? No, we don't need it all really, I just don't think that it's a big deal in this particular case.

[WinkyDink]

297. And you complained about past Inaugurals where, exactly?

[janx]

53. Please look up the history of the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

You might then understand why it is especially important at this inauguration.

[Mrs. Overall]

56. +1

[MotherPetrie]

59. I know its history -- I still find it utterly inappropriate and exclusionary

[treestar]

72. It is a metaphor

so it is not even specifically religious. It ties the end of the Civil War to the judgment at the second coming as a metaphor, that's meant to say something (and to people in the 1860s).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic

[coalition_unwilling]

75. The melody originally supplied a song celebrating the life and death

of America's first terrorist (aka "freedom fighter&quot John Brown in the song "John Brown's Body" (sung by Union soldiers on the march through the South).

Unless you're a Brit, in which case, America's first terrorist was probably George Washington (or, arguably, Crispus Attucks

[janx]

125. Yes indeed. And interestingly, there were TWO John Browns.

The "terrorist" abolitionist and another John Brown, whom the song was originally about.

Howe would have assumed that the John Brown of the song was the famous abolitionist. But the song belonged to a young Scotsman in the Massachusetts Volunteer Militia who shared Brown's name.

The Scotsman was well aware of John Brown the abolitionist. Having the same name made him a prime target for many good-natured jokes. As the soldiers marched, they would hammer out, in folk-song fashion, the tune that Julia Ward Howe would later hear. Lines like "His Soul's Marching On" were meant to tease the Scotsman. But as the catchy verse traveled to other units, it was known only as a song about the John Brown who was captured at Harpers Ferry. New verses were constantly added:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/brown/sfeature/song.html

[coalition_unwilling]

131. Your post is one reason my long-running love (hate) affair with DU continues

so passionately unabated. That is simply an amazing story!

Speaking of Scotsman and music, allow me one of my fav all-time jokes:

Q: What's the difference between Mick Jagger and a Scotsman?

A: Mick Jagger says "Hey, you, get off of my cloud" and a Scotsman says, "Hey, McCloud, get off of my ewe."

I'm Scotch-Irish so am allowed the ethnic-joke exemption for that one

[janx]

169. . . .

[1monster]

170. Interesting story. Thanks for posting. (In elementary school we were taught that the

lyrics were

John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
So they rubbed it with vaporizing oil!

Oye!

[janx]

209. Maybe your teachers didn't want to get graphic...

But history is magnificent, isn't it? The Battle Hymn of the Republic went from a taunting of that poor Massachusetts Scotsman and a song about a famous abolitionist to the Battle Hymn that we know today--one that symbolizes the Emancipation Proclamation and the preservation of the Union.



It's just beautiful.

[coalition_unwilling]

272. The line "He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored" always

sends shivers down my spine for its imagery and poetics. Can almost see the Union Army of the Potomac marching to it.

[historylovr]

306. Nathaniel Bacon is upset at being overlooked.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

58. From one secular being to another:

Today is not the day.

[MotherPetrie]

66. You can sit down and shut up if you want. I'm not that obedient.

[1monster]

190. If you are offended, it is your right to turn it off and I do not fault you for that at all. However

as a non-Christian, I find your outrage as off-putting as evangelicals who keep insisting that everyone believe as they do.

There are many reasons and ways that people come to renoucne religion of some or all kinds. Often those reasons/ways are very painful. It can take time to work through the issues that one has with belief and non-belief. And maybe you are still working through whatever issues you may have. I hope that eventually you will learn to make peace with the world you live in and learn to choose your battles.

PS, during the Bush years, The Battle Hymn of the Republic was used (in parody) quite often. One example:

Battle Hymn of the Republicans

Mine Eyes have seen the bungling of that stumbling moron Bush;
He has blathered all the drivel that the neo-cons can push;
He has lost sight of all reason 'cause his head is up his tush;
The Doofus marches on.

I have heard him butcher syntax like a kindergarten fool;
There is warranted suspicion that he never went to school;
Should we fault him for the policies -- or is he just their tool?
The lies keep piling on.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
His wreckage will live on.

I have seen him cut the taxes of the billionaires' lone heir;
As he spends another zillion on an aircraft carrier;
Let the smokestacks keep polluting -- do we really need clean air?
The surplus is now gone.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw ! Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Your safety net is gone!

Now he's got a mighty hankerin' to bomb a prostrate state;
Though the whole world knows its crazy -- and the U.N. says to wait;
When he doesn't have the evidence, "We must prevaricate."
Diplomacy is done!

Oh, a trumped-up war is excellent; we have no moral bounds;
Should the reasons be disputed, we'll just make up other grounds;
Enraging several billions -- to his brainlessness redounds;
The Doofus marches on!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

THIS...DOO...FUS...MAR...CHES...ON

(with apologies to the lyricist -- I don't know who to credit)

[Carolina]

60. whatever your thoughts about the

hymn or its place at such an event, you missed an exquisite performance by a diverse choir... one that mirrored the America that voted for the president and one composed of our fellow citizens endowed with beautiful voices!

Truly, it was your loss.

[tallahasseedem]

67. Whatevs.

[still_one]

68. It was written during the civil war, and like it or not it is part of the history of this country.

[greatauntoftriplets]

70. So I guess that today is meaningless to you?

After all, it commemorates the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Walk away]

84. That's pretty nasty. You think Dr. King's christianity is what made him great?

Then he could have just stayed in his church and preached sermons and lived a long happy life.

[forestpath]

87. It's funny how nasty so-called Christians get when you dare to

disagree with them.

[MotherPetrie]

111. It never ceases to amaze me how often DUer's put extra words in my mouth

Whenever I don't follow a specific party line

[NYC Liberal]

73. I didn't. I am an atheist and I love that song.

Maybe I'm weird, but I do.

[a la izquierda]

85. +1

[patrice]

155. +1 apparently you are not an absolutist, which would, of course, mean that you are God.

[NYC Liberal]

167. But...you're saying I don't believe in myself?!

Actually I think there's a lot of great religious music. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I can't appreciate good music.

[patrice]

176. Some poets say you are a song & you don't have to believe in music to hear it.

That's in Rilke's Sonnets to Orpheus, here: http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-sonnets-to-orpheus-book-2-xiii/

I especially like the closing lines of that poem.

[RebelOne]

189. Ditto that. I am an atheist, but I always like that song. n/t

[Walk away]

78. When Chuck Schumer introduced it I thought that was weird. It's a Jesus song...

it's not even a generic "Lord God" song so we Atheists aren't the only ones left out.

[a la izquierda]

80. Oy vey.

Comments like this are why I believe a lot of atheists are as insufferable as a lot of evangelical Christians. Different coin, same intolerance of the other.



And, oh yes, I said a lot. Not all, or many. Feel free to flame away.

[narnian60]

89. I agree!

[tallahasseedem]

107. +1

[Lilyeye]

230. Agreed!

[malaise]

81. FFS

I'm an atheist but have no problem with beautiful music

[Bjornsdotter]

91. Ditto n/t

[a la izquierda]

92. Yep!

People need something to get their knickers in a twist about daily, it seems.

[malaise]

96. Geez

[ForgoTheConsequence]

86. You showed them.

Luckily I'm capable of putting things into their correct context and was able to enjoy it. I'm sure some would prefer using their white privilege to white wash that part of history.

[LiberalElite]

88. I hit the mute too -

I left the RC church decades ago and I don't believe in organized religion. Enough with the religion already.

[Raine]

93. Too bad you missed out, it's a beautiful song and it was done beautifully. A shame that you're so

intolerant.

[WolverineDG]

95. Let's see

how about appreciating the historical & cultural significance of this hymn?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic#Cultural_Influences

The lyrics of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" appear in Martin Luther King, Jr.'s sermons and speeches, most notably in his speech "How Long, Not Long" from the steps of the Alabama State Capitol building on March 25, 1965 after the 3rd Selma March, and in his final sermon "I've Been to the Mountaintop", delivered in Memphis, Tennessee on the evening of April 3, 1968, the night before his assassination. In fact, the latter sermon, King's last public words, ends with the first lyrics of the "Battle Hymn", "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord."

Since this is MLK's actual birthday, I find the inclusion of this hymn to be especially significant.

[deutsey]

97. They're really playing up the Emancipation Proclamation/MLK/African American President synergy

It made sense to have it part of that, imo.

Having said that, however, I think Twain's version of the song may have been even more appropriate:

Mine eyes have seen the orgy of the launching of the Sword;
He is searching out the hoardings where the stranger's wealth is stored;
He hath loosed his fateful lightnings, and with woe and death has scored;
His lust is marching on.

I have seen him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps;
They have builded him an altar in the Eastern dews and damps;
I have read his doomful mission by the dim and flaring lamps—
His night is marching on.

I have read his bandit gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my pretensions, so with you my wrath shall deal;
Let the faithless son of Freedom crush the patriot with his heel;
Lo, Greed is marching on!"

We have legalized the strumpet and are guarding her retreat;*
Greed is seeking out commercial souls before his judgement seat;
O, be swift, ye clods, to answer him! be jubilant my feet!
Our god is marching on!

In a sordid slime harmonious Greed was born in yonder ditch,
With a longing in his bosom—and for others' goods an itch.
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich—
Our god is marching on.

* NOTE: In Manila the Government has placed a certain industry under the protection of our flag. (M.T.)

[Puglover]

98. As you should have!

Because of course the inauguration is all about you and your sensibilities. BTW not a christian here and somehow I made it through the song. Man, talk about not seeing the forest through the trees.

[LiberalElite]

113. Yeah boy people sure are touchy

And here i'm referring to all who liked the inclusion a performance of Battle Hymn of the Republic, but are getting their panties in a wad because some didn't like it.

[Puglover]

146. And thanks for playing MISSING THE POINT ENTIRELY!

[AngryOldDem]

103. One in every crowd.

Historical context must have gone right over your head.

You missed a hell of a performance, though.

[arely staircase]

116. I 'll alert the media

expect many calls for details.

[NCTraveler]

117. The President is a Christian.

Sorry that bothers you. He leans on his faith for many things in his life. It is fully within his rights to publicly display his faith. Even at the inauguration.

[mr blur]

222. And yet your Constitution is not a Christian document. Quite the reverse as I understand it.

Do you feel that it is only there to serve Christians, as many here seem to do?

Christian privilege, such a fine thing, isn't it? For the believers, anyway.

[NCTraveler]

224. Not sure what that has to do with anything stated.

What does that have to do with prayer or mentions of faith at the inauguration? It is extremely clear that this type of display is constitutional. The constitution agrees, the court agrees, Obama agrees.....

[WinkyDink]

300. Where do you live?

[name not needed]

119. Lighten up, Francis.

[geomon666]

120. As an atheist

I watched every bit of it. I can appreciate religious music and art without belittling the beliefs behind it.

[llmart]

122. Agreed!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

191. On this board, you could have a fulltime job...

educating other so-called progressives on the ability to tolerate other peoples' belief systems.

[geomon666]

263. They can't pay me enough for that.

Maybe if I had a team.

[Taverner]

121. I always pegged that as Union Civil War Era Nostalgia

And I'm an Atheist

[Hekate]

123. Sure... a Christian Abolitionist. How awful.

[Coyotl]

126. Now the god damn Benidiction

"With the blessing of your blessing ... we pray for your blessing" for abundance "we pray for your blessing, bless all of us .. that we may become a blessing ... "

OFCS, let's get back to reality!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. Too bad. It was the best musical performance

of all of them so far.

[Hamlette]

132. it is all metaphor and even many "religious" people see it that way

As a 3rd generation godless commie pinko my family taught that it is all a beautiful myth which teaches lessons about us, not unlike the Greek and Roman myths. And the song is beautiful, unlike the pledge and our money which contain more egregious violations of the idea we are secular.

Ignore the bad, appreciate the good.

[SidDithers]

135. ...

Sid

[union_maid]

136. Missed a beautiful rendition, then

And those young people singing it looked like their smiles were genuine. I'm not a bit religious, but it made me tear up.

[bklyncowgirl]

138. You know, every once in a while I wonder if I should declare myself an athiest.

Then I listen to a self-proclaimed atheist snootily decry a beautiful musical performance of a hymn with great historical import for this country, just to make her own intolerant point about religion in the public sphere and I decide that this is a club that I do not want to join.

[LP2K12]

144. +1

[name not needed]

147. Yep.

For a bunch of people tired of the Evangelicals nonsense, they sure take after them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

154. You got that right.

[jeff47]

206. So could you please list what insults are sufficient to mention?

Do we need to wait for a new inquisition for your permission to be annoyed?

"Oh, it's not that bad. You should let it go" has been the refrain against women, blacks, LGBT and every other civil rights movement. Shortly followed with "I'm a supporter, but your absolutism is driving me away!", as you state here.

[bklyncowgirl]

229. People expressing their 1st amendment right to religious expression is not an occasion for outrage

There's a big difference between active discrimination such as that experienced by the groups you referenced and--OH THE HORROR--having to listen to religious sentiments that most of your fellow citizens hold sacred but that you do not share.

I dislike intolerence whether it comes from the left or the right but you have every right to be annoyed if you like just as I have every right to be annoyed at your annoyance.

Let's face it, this is the Internet, more particularly this is DU, we stand by our absolute right to be pissed off and outraged at something!

[jeff47]

237. Yes, it's only people talking, it's not like 70% of the public wouldn't vote for an atheist

for President. Nah, no actions involved other than moving lips.

Oh wait.

(Polling varies: "Would you vote for an otherwise-fully-qualified person for President if he was an atheist?" gets "yes" from in the 30s to around 50% depending on the poll. However, it's always behind other groups such as "gay" or "muslim". "Just words" have consequences)

[Nye Bevan]

139. You did the right thing.

Listening to that song has been know to transform even the most devout atheists into fundamentalist Christians.

[TheCowsCameHome]

141. Well, that's your loss.

Personally, I love the tune.

[MadrasT]

145. *shrug*

To me, it's a Union Civil War song. As a Daughter of a Union Veteran, I love the crap out of that tune.

I'm also an atheist.

To each his own.

[union_maid]

151. We gonna get rid of all religious music?

The church was a major patron of the arts in Europe. Do we really want those Old Masters in publicly funded museums? Then there's Gospel. You don't have to believe anything in particular to just feel inspired by that. Life is not all black and white.

[RudynJack]

153. Then I presume

you've never watched an inauguration, and don't plan to watch one within your lifetime?

[SidDithers]

156. Just for you...

Sometimes you just have to appreciate a piece of music as a piece of music.

Sid

[Laochtine]

160. As an atheist

I know christians need their binky, so as long as they don't shoot up the place I forgive the their trespasses on me

[WinkyDink]

161. OMG, so many posts from people who must have just arrived in the U.S.! Welcome, immigrants!

*sarcasm*

Like they've never seen a Presidential Inauguration before.

Just one more lame attempt to criticize Obama.

[cordelia]

166. Oh, please.

Annoying eye-rolling thing inserted here.

[obietiger]

168. Fox News must agree with you

I turned over to their channel as the song was ending to see if they would say something nice about it. There was only laughter being broadcast.

[lynne]

171. This thread is rather ironic coming on MLK Day -

- when we're to join together, put aside difference, and accept each other for the persons that we are.

Guess King should have specifically referenced music choices.

[Fumesucker]

172. Imagine the full metal jacket hissy fit that would have been pitched

If Imagine were performed at the inauguration.

No hell below us
Above us only sky

[patrice]

273. Richard Blanco made all of those connections. Sky figured prominently in what he said. nt

[hughee99]

173. So an abolition song rooted in religion makes you feel excluded, but you're fine with Rudolph? n/t

[HappyMe]

177. lol!

I was wondering the same thing.

[CalFresh]

174. Great song for today.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.


I love it!

[jberryhill]

175. Prefer "Dixie" Do You?

Dixie is from the same time period, and doesn't use religious symbolism.

I guess Dixie is a much more inclusionary song.

[Silent3]

180. What a weird and ridiculous retort.

How does that even get at the point the OP is making, whether you agree with the OP or not?

[jberryhill]

181. It's not religious, so it must be more inclusionary

The Battle Hymn of the Republic - as was John Brown's Body - is a retort to Dixie, in context.

[Silent3]

186. So the idea of dropping both religious and racist at the same time...

...is too much for you to handle?

[jberryhill]

193. Yeah, we can airbrush all of history

The idea of it being a civil anthem with religious symbolism at the same time is clearly too much for some to handle.

The plea "God shed his grace on thee" in America The Beautiful is fraught with a Protestant Christian doctrine.

The song makes racist irredentist Confederates squirm, and that's good enough for me.

[Silent3]

219. Maybe if it was a rare religious touch...

...and not surrounded by religious invocations and swearing to God, swearing on top of Bibles, visiting churches. As it is, however, it's one more straw on the camel's back.

But hey, let's not airbrush any of that away. It's convenient when tradition and history favors those who hold a privileged position.

[jberryhill]

239. "those who hold a privileged position"

Well, I don't know who you are talking about, as I have no religious affiliation at all, and you are denigrating a person who was an abolitionist, a pacifist, and a suffragette.

The lyrics were written by someone who spent the rest of her life fighting for the right to vote - a privilege you have always had.

[Silent3]

248. There's more than one kind of privilege...

...and always people who don't enjoy those privileges who will oddly defend others privilege anyway.

But if that one particular song is so damned important, its sentiment simply cannot be tapped without its built-in religious trappings, how about we keep that one song and trash all the other religious claptrap?

And short of that, how about at least showing a bit of fucking understanding for someone like the OP who might have reached their limit for looking the other way when separation of church and state is blithely ignored at the point of that one song instead of somewhere else your esteemed self would approve of?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

196. On MLK day....

....many of the songs sung by those who marched on Selma and DC were hymns....Amazing Grace, Swing Low, Sweet Chariot....

The OP's going to have to get over it fast, because their complaints on THIS DAY are inappropriate. Period.

[jeff47]

208. Yeah, it's too soon. We need to wait to do anything.

Boy that sounds familiar....

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

223. No, I get it....

....those silly, silly people singing those songs, right?

[jeff47]

238. No, it's just never a good time to start supporting minorities.

Just like when those "silly, silly people singing these songs" started.

[jberryhill]

240. You don't know much about Julia Ward Howe, do you?

[jeff47]

243. You don't realize this isn't about one song, do you? (nt)

[Silent3]

313. It's most convenient to pretend it's only about the one song. n/t

[DevonRex]

211. Made me laugh!!

That would be the counterpart, wouldn't it!

[MineralMan]

215. I was thinking about "Old Folks at Home."

It sounds more like a hymn, somehow.

It used to be used for the Florida Governor's Inauguration. Eventually, they had to change the lyrics, though. Apparently "longing for the old plantation," didn't fit by the 1970s.

[patrice]

178. That appears pretty narrow minded to me. nt

[zappaman]

179. Oh brother

[RoverSuswade]

183. It's just a song.

Get a grip.

[Stinky The Clown]

184. When a friend dies, do you boycott the funeral if it is religious?

Geeeze, give it a rest. I am not ready to say I am a complete atheist, but I am totally areligious.

The song is moving and patriotic, the actual words notwithstanding.

I bet others changed their channel because the title says "Battle Hymn."

But hey . . . . we're all impressed by your channel changing.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

185. Be honest

It wasn't that hard to turn it off, was it?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

187. Why were you watching at all?

Considering the highlight of the ceremony is the President placing his hand on a Bible.

Were you just looking for an excuse to piss and moan?

[abbeyco]

188. So thrilled you had to inform everyone.

Obviously you're not quite so tolerant of the beliefs of others. Sad...

[mokawanis]

198. I'm just surprised you turned on the tv

I have no criticisms or complaints against you because you turned it off, I'm just surprised you turned it on to begin with. I mean, you had to know that presidential inaugurations have never been a secular ceremony. Did you expect this one to be any different?

[thucythucy]

199. At least they're not singing "Dixie."

The BHotR is a piece of American history, honoring the sacrifice of those who fought to end slavery.

Can't think of a more fitting tune for this occasion. Well, maybe "This Land is Your Land," but I expect that one will be sung as well.

[11 Bravo]

200. Got a telephone?

If so, you can call someone who gives a shit.

[LanternWaste]

207. I imagine that sooner or later, we'll evolve to the point in which any song sung, poem read...

I imagine that sooner or later, we'll evolve to the point in which any song sung, poem read and story told will deny any and all imaginary beliefs systems-- up to and including religion, politics, philosophy, arts, etc, and all the other wholly imaginary, man-made constructs which appear no where but our own minds.

Then and only then will everyone will be included.

[arely staircase]

221. great cultural/anthropological retort to the OP and general observation

religion in a historically signicant song in an artistic performance at a political/governmental ceremony!

amazing

it is like all the humanities on grand display all at once.

The religion aspect is interesting in a Durkheim/Sacred/Profane sort of way.

[workinclasszero]

213. Alrighty then

Whatever citizen, its a free country as the saying goes.

[DevonRex]

220. So you never go to the opera or art museums, I take it? You

walk out of movies at the first mention of god. You close books,with god references. You poor thing. You've missed out on so much in your life by being so afraid of a word or a depiction.

You know, I am not a flag person. But my husband religiously puts the flag on our house on all federal holidays. He likes it. And I love him.

[Phx_Dem]

225. Good. You didn't deserve to hear that heart-wrenchingly beautiful rendition.

[Recursion]

226. It was beautiful. And I appreciated the wartime version of the lyrics (nt)

[onenote]

227. Thank goodness they didn't read the Emancipation Proclamation out loud

You probably would have passed out.

Excerpt from the Emancipation Proclamation:

"And upon this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice, warranted by the Constitution, upon military necessity, I invoke the considerate judgment of mankind, and the gracious favor of Almighty God."

[dsc]

228. I think it is one thing to object to the prayers

which are pretty much purposeless without religion but this song in particular has a strong, secular purpose. It was the anthem of abolition which was the first civil rights cause our nation ever engaged in. I think that it would be just as much a violation of separation of church and state to throw out this song due to its Christian imagery as it is to include the prayers.

[CanonRay]

231. You have to think of it in context with the Civil War

and not the religion of it. I'm not Christian, but as a Civil War buff, I understand how much the song meant to the Union.

[Robb]

232. You have more than one channel?

[JDPriestly]

233. That's the history of our country. That's our tradition. I like it.

We were built by people who loved God and that good ole time religion.

Don't feel intimidated by it. Be who you are and don't resent others for being who they are.

You don't have to agree with the meaning, but let's be proud of our heritage.

The Founding Fathers weren't fundamentalists. They studied Greek and Latin and knew their mythology as well as their Bible. But the families who settled the Mid-West, the South and the West were not all, but were mostly very religious and mostly Protestant.

[Phx_Dem]

234. And you couldn't wait to share your pettiness on DU. Lovely.

[Brigid]

236. To paraphrase an old saying . . .

It is far better not to post something and be thought a fool than to post it and leave no doubt.

[No Vested Interest]

245. "Turned it off and tuned out."

That'll show'em.

[Swamp Lover]

251. Real tolerant.

But I support your right to be a narrow minded bigot.

[juajen]

256. I clicked down to the bottom, because

I am sick of all the arguing. I find myself doing this over and over again. Why does every other post have trivial arguments, that tend to turn me and others off?

[ScreamingMeemie]

259. As one of "no Faith," in either the imaginary or even you fine people... That was one of

my favorite song to sing in High School. As it is, it was Pomp and all the trappings to go with it. Those who think otherwise look truly foolish and odd.

[llmart]

268. Thank you.....

sometimes it's just about the music and the feelings it evokes in a person, and there isn't any "agenda" in having it part of the ceremony. It's part of the pomp and ceremony and tradition. As I said initially, it was a petty thing to say on this momentous day.

People who have to pick apart everything and find something negative to focus on need to stop taking themselves so seriously.

[SpartanDem]

260. This a new level of stupid trival, whining

You might want to pick up a history of book or two and understand why on MLK Day this song is significant.

[patrice]

266. Everyone in this thread should read this article & decide what's going on with certain kinds of OPs.

Some people don't feel that it is necessary to make a big deal about their reactions all of the time. Their thoughts and feelings are not threatened by what other people do, nor do they need the attention of others in that regard.

Other people feel for some reason (and perhaps all of us should ask why; what reason is that?) that it is necessary to make themselves the point of things.

Here's a perspective on this that all of us might consider given the facts of corporate personhood funding things like a cozy relationship between MoveOn and the Tea Party amongst other things, I"m sure, lately:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/20/far-right-poses-as-much-danger-to-the-u-s-as-radical-islam/

One of the core issues with the extreme right is that while they espouse individual freedom and like to try and spread fear regarding the government’s activities, they also seem to believe in a type of authoritarianism—one of the very things they profess to loathe in government—that includes a strong resistance to authority from what they view as “outgroups,” namely blacks and women, unions, and more.

OP appears to be a "my way or the highway" presumed authority opposing anything different from itself on the claim that whatever disagrees with them is authority and ought to be opposed on their say so alone.

Co - existence is considered moral terpitude in some mindsets. They'd apparently much prefer to dictate the terms of "better dead than _________________ ." It's a base building tactic that completely avoids specifying concrete objectives, processes, procedures, and timelines, let alone outcomes, and tasks (except for getting people to repeat memes or click Like or Reply in a forum) because it has nothing workable and it fears any attempt to arrive at that will result in its own deconstruction. Sound familiar?

[WinkyDink]

301. Oh, I think I know "what's going on." So much....CONCERN, you see.

[patrice]

305. Like we're a bunch of babies whose brains are so easily re-programmed, we need NANNIES to tell us

how to feel about a song.

[aikoaiko]

271. They skipped the part about glory to old Georgia and to hell with GATech

[Whisp]

274. good. who needs miserable people on this glorious day.

Most of us are very happy. happy happy joy joy, nyah.

[JI7]

275. I'm an Atheist and i enjoyed it, i enjoy listening to Catholic, buddhist, Hindu etc

music at times also.

[tabasco]

277. Union won the war. Get over it.

Bye.

[JI7]

279. Did you get Offended by that Poet Saying "Namaste" ?

[bluerum]

281. I always found gospel inspiring. And I am Buddhist if anything.

[JI7]

286. Churck Schumer is Jewish, i wonder if he was offended and felt left out

with references to things which might involve christians.

[WinkyDink]

296. Sure, you wonder. Did he SEEM like he was offended?? Good grief.

[demosincebirth]

290. How silly.

[Doctor_J]

291. Excellent! That's why there are so many channels

and a remote.

[louis c]

303. How Foolish

I am secular and cry when I hear the Battle Hymn of the Republic, because I know what that song means for this country. How slaves became free while brave men died on battlefields all over America to preserve this great union.

It may mention God, after all there are some pretty religious people who do the right thing and make the ultimate sacrifice. There are many Secular people who also do the right thing and make the ultimate sacrifice.

Get with it. Enjoy all that is diverse in this country, including those who believe in God as well as those of us who don't.

[GP6971]

307. Interesting how the OP

"Disappears". I guess their conviction lasts for just so many posts.

My initial reaction to the BHoR being sung? Wow, a shot across the bow.......north vs. south. Then I remembered it was it was MLK day and everything made sense. Very appropriate IMOH.

[WCGreen]

308. I do believe the Battle Hymn was written during the Civil War...

That was was driven by Abolitionists who saw slavery as an affront to Christianity.

Hence the idea of His Truth is Marching on meaning the North was propelled into war by the Abolitionist who were convinced God was on their side.

[alcibiades_mystery]

312. Martin Luther King Jr.'s Final Words in his Final Speech

"Mine eyes have seen the Glory of the coming of the Lord."

Maybe that might could have something to do with the selection?

[Doctor_J]

317. Probably a coincidence

coincidence/put-down of non-Christians

[Ikonoklast]

315. Where's General William Tecumseh Sherman when you need him?

[Festivito]

318. You must hate that free exercise clause...

not requiring free-exercise zones.

Good luck trying to change that part of the Constitution.

[Odin2005]

320. I'm an Atheist and love the Battle Hymn of The Republic.

Your loss.

[Chorophyll]

322. Wevs. nt

[Blue_Tires]

324. Well, please don't watch the University of Georgia play sports on TV