Obama needs to be impeached.

[kestrel91316]

He said "So help me GOD" when he was sworn in yesterday. I don't know about today because I missed that part.

There. Does that make you religion haters happy?

[hrmjustin]

1. Does anyone really care if he said "So help me God"?

[kestrel91316]

11. An awful lot of DUers claim outrage that the inauguration today was just one big ol' church service

with religion shoved down everyone's throats at every turn.

I beg to differ.

Oh, and when that finally got shot down, they turned to outrage over the music.

[BainsBane]

12. I know

I was a juror on your post, and I voted to let it stand. But you seem determined to incur additional wrath. Let it go. Atheists can sometimes be annoying, but they don't have power over anything. They are a voiceless minority in American political life, which has got to be frustrating. There is no need to start up again.

[kestrel91316]

15. If the atheists are allowed to go on and on and on and on about this as they do every single day,

and have for years, then certainly I can be permitted to be angry about this on just ONE day?

I hate militant religious nuts and militant atheist nuts equally. Neither of them seems to understand freedom of religion in the slightest.

[BainsBane]

19. I never said you weren't entitled

I agree with your position. But it is possible to express disagreement without engaging in a flame war. You appear to looking for trouble.

[kestrel91316]

24. I am posting my opinions in my OWN thread. That AIN'T a "flame war".

Would you prefer I go pee in somebody else's Wheaties???

[RebelOne]

20. I could care less and I am an atheist.

And I understand the freedom of or from religion.

[Logical]

59. I know lots of religious nuts. Who are some militant atheist nuts? I need to learn. n-t

[NYC Liberal]

54. Really? Because I saw plenty of atheists/nonbelievers today joining in the "shooting down"

of that -- me included. More than were claiming outrage.

[PragmaticLiberal]

51. Judging from some of the posts I've seen today the answer is "Yes".

[hrmjustin]

53. People can feel how they want, but I just don't get it.

[PragmaticLiberal]

61. I know what you mean.

Personally, I'm an agnostic but I respect the fact that we live in a religious country.


Maybe I'm crazy but religion just doesn't offend me....

[BainsBane]

2. Why press your luck?

by starting yet another flame war?

[kestrel91316]

9. I didn't start any of the previous ones. But I am entitled to my opinion on the matter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. They are still at it

So why not?

[hatrack]

3. Yes, I'm delighted. Thank you for your creative and positive contribution

nt

[Fumesucker]

4. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240208988

[BainsBane]

5. I get your point, overall

but I think for believers and atheists alike, debate concerning the existence of God or the appropriate role of religion in public life isn't a "tiny crack." I will admit to being baffled why it has to be such a huge source of outrage over a day as important as today.

[Fumesucker]

6. This is a discussion board, that's what we do is discuss things

If the original OPs that started the entire mess were more along the lines of: "Wow, I can kind of see your point, I'm sorry if you felt excluded from the ceremony" instead of "STFU you evil divisive atheist" things might have progressed in a less flammable manner.

The religious ceremony surrounding everything in public life in the USA becomes cloying sometimes for those who don't share the religious outlook. The inauguration is just a particularly egregious example, that's what set some people off I think.

[BainsBane]

7. it's a deliberate flame attempt

for sure. But it seems to have fallen flat. People aren't feeding him.

[kestrel91316]

13. I am about as religious as my cats AND I am more likely than most to complain about the insertion of

religion into the political sphere.

But you have to have some sort of thinking disorder to believe that a benediction at a traditional time like this is even remotely similar to the attempts to codify the bible into our laws that the Republicans engage in ad infinitum (and that these same poutraged DUers are so mysteriously silent about).

Some people are completely opposed to freedom of religion. I suspect they are bent out of shape over attempts to limit gun rights in at least some cases. They just lack the courage to say that's their game.

[Fumesucker]

22. No, some of us just get tired of hearing it, the religious ceremony in public life become wearisome

I'm resigned to it but there are times being publicly reminded of just how silly your fellow citizens beliefs are to you gets old.

We are in the second decade of the twenty first century and the religious fervor seems to get worse and worse, ten years ago *nobody* said "have a blessed day" now I hear it all the time.

I see a lot of pushback on DU from Republican efforts to codify religion into law, I don't know what board you're reading.

[kestrel91316]

27. That "have a blessed day" thing annoys me, but I guess I believe in freedom of expression and

freedom of conscience so I make allowances for it. I don't let ANYONE'S well wishes bother me.

Although "bless your little heart" is generally considered sarcasm down south.

I tend to ignore invocations and benedictions. It's laws based on the bible that I lose sleep over. I would suggest that you direct your ire to the real threat and not something which harms no one and has no ill intent.

Benedictions are a red herring.

[onenote]

36. On the occasion of the birthday of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

I really wish he was still alive.

And I would love to see if you had the nerve to tell him how "silly" his beliefs were.

[Fumesucker]

37. Sexism in a post defending religion?

Quelle surprise!

[onenote]

40. I've edited my post. Care to respond to it as revised?

WHat is your view on people like Reverend King? Do you believe that the very large number of loyal Democrats, including a very large number of African-American Democrats, who are church going progressives, are "silly."

Must be hard being you in a world with so many people who don't measure up to your standards.

[Fumesucker]

43. You already gave yourself away

I said the beliefs are silly *to me* and they are, that's my opinion.

“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

I'm sure that things I believe are folly to some other people, I can live with their scorn.

[onenote]

45. Yep. You caught me. I'm tolerant of others whose beliefs are different from mine.

and not so tolerant of those who view others beliefs as "silly". guilty as charged.

[Fumesucker]

46. You are also tolerant of sexist language

[kestrel91316]

18. I did NOT start this mess. But I WILL express my opinion of it.

[kestrel91316]

10. Because another Rove memo went out and it became the poutrage topic du jour.

[KittyWampus]

8. So help me Ceiling Cat.

[kestrel91316]

14. WIN.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

16. He did.

He said "so help me God is great."

[kestrel91316]

23. Well then there you have it. He's forcing his religion on us all.

When will people understand that freedom of religion means freedom to believe as you wish? And that we should neither condemn believers non unbelievers? That they ALL are equal and should be treated as such?

If you do not believe in freedom of religion then put your money where your mouth is and work to repeal the First Amendment, or change it to say that religion and religious thought are not permitted. Show the courage of your convictions.

But stop attacking those of differing opinions in the meantime.

[WinkyDink]

21. Today, idiot Thomas asked him to REPEAT "So help YOU, God."

That would be "ME," Justice Thomas. To REPEAT a word is to say the EXACT word.

[kestrel91316]

28. I am fairly certain that Clarence Thomas was not involved in any such conversation with our

president today.

Did you perhaps mean Chief Justice ROBERTS?

I do wish no such words were part of the oath, but it's in the Constitution and I doubt it will change in my lifetime. You have to pick your battles.

[RB TexLa]

42. Those words are not part of the oath, the person taking the oath decides if they want to add them or

not.

So no lifetime of waiting for you on them being removed as they are not there.

[WinkyDink]

57. Yes, I meant Roberts. I had a "DUH" moment there. But I was referring only to the pronouns!

[Separation]

25. .

[img][/img]

[kestrel91316]

29. THANK YOU.

[Separation]

30. All thanks go to my daughter.

I stole it from her FB account.

[hrmjustin]

52. Love it!

[longship]

26. You need your ears boxed... Just kidding.

But i believe you are incorrect in your argument and I would like to explain it to you.

But first, let me set the stage. I am an atheist.

Second, I do not care what anybody believes with regards to religion. They can pray to the Buddhist floaty thing, to Allah, to Yaweh, to Jesus, to the nearly uncountable (and ever growing) Catholic saints, to the Spaghetti Monster, to Ayn Rand, or to fucking Xenu. I am very tolerant of people who pray, or want to pray.

There are a bazillion different religious beliefs on this planet -- all different and many at each other's throats. If there is a god(s), all but one of these beliefs are wrong. I prefer to realize that it's most likely that they are all wrong and that's where my beliefs sit.

But recognizing that many people believe many different things, and they've historically killed each other over this for thousands of years -- read the Hebrew Bible (aka, the Old Testament) for details, I don't care what other people think about gods. It doesn't bother me that people believe in gods.

However, I am a whole lot less tolerant of those who would use prayer as a public initiative to leverage their beliefs or, worse, people who would use their position in government as if it were a pulpit, to leverage that position to impose their religious beliefs on others.

That's fucking evil! The reason why we all can know that it's true is that there is thousands of years of history to back up that as well.

I have no problem with people's religious beliefs. But when they use their office in government to wear that religiosity like a badge of honor, that's wrong.

I love Barack Obama as my president, but if we do not put an end to this bullshit obligation of wearing religion on one's sleeve, I fear for our world. Nothing good will come of it.

[kestrel91316]

32. I am in complete agreement with you other than your opposition to our president or any individual

being allowed to utter even faint words of religious conviction. I DO wish that there were truly "no religious test", and that we should fight anything that smacks of it.

I just don't happen to think having a benediction where we have always had one, and having a president speak his true thoughts, constitute religious tests for him or religious coercion of anyone else.

I do NOT want prayers of ANY flavor prior to any meetings of elected officials. I do NOT want any words of ANY religion carved into any public buildings. And I do NOT want the bible or anyone else's holy text codified into US or state laws.

But thoughts in people's minds and words from their lips NEVER harmed a soul. And certainly never killed anyone.

Words are not guns or knives, though they may be sharp or swift.

[longship]

63. I am glad you clarified your position kestrel.

Sometimes it's difficult to discern what people really think on these forums. Thank you for that.

I only hope that you are correct that these things are harmless. I am not sure that establishing such things as expected is good. What happens when a non-believer president elect opts to forgo these expressions?

That's the measure of the perspective damage.

I'd like to think that a non-believer could be inaugurated as president -- no religious tests Article VI thingie. Mandating or expecting prayers at the inauguration acts suspiciously just like such a test.

I guess that is what I worry about, in addition to my overall discomfort with all the praying.

[kestrel91316]

65. I for one would LOVE to see a nonbeliever elected to high office. That would be as great a day as

when Obama was first elected, and I would delight in the christofascist heads exploding probably more than most.

But I think it is nonsensical and meanspirited to try to deny people their freedom of conscience.

[kestrel91316]

66. I've always said that we are none of us truly free until the atheists AND SATANISTS are free.

Beliefs are beliefs. Actions are actions. We must regulate the one and must not regulate the other.

[longship]

68. DUzy worthy!

Thanks for that!

[immoderate]

31. I wish he didn't, but I wouldn't make a federal case out of it.

I'm saving my ammo to expand our national motto to say:
[font size=+3 face="script"]In God We Trust -- Now What?[/font]

--imm

[kestrel91316]

33. I am completely opposed to the whole In God We Trust motto thing.

It certainly does NOT belong on our money or on any government buildings. It's a remnant of McCarthyism, just like the "under God" portion of the Pledge.

Our real motto is E Pluribus Unum, which everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten.

But again, you have to pick your battles. My battles will always be against actual legislation or government acts which constitute religious coercion of favoritism.

[immoderate]

34. It's on coins since 1864.

But I agree with you, mostly. Religion already gets more perks from the government than they should.

I have more tolerance for religious symbols in art and literature. Not when they tell me what to do.

---imm

[Warren Stupidity]

35. People who would like the establishment clause respected are religion haters.

Nice. Real nice. You must be so proud.

[GoneOffShore]

48. Reccing your post.

[emulatorloo]

38. And Kelly Clarkson was HORRIBLE!!! Impeach him!

[TransitJohn]

39. Unrec.

Petulance is unbecoming.

[RandiFan1290]

41. Dumb post is dumb

and childish

[GoneOffShore]

49. Reccing your post.

[Motown_Johnny]

44. Is this a "War On Christmas" thing?

'Cause it seems to make the same amount of sense as that garbage does.

[GoneOffShore]

47. O F F S

I'm an atheist - I hate the trappings of religion attached to the state - and I'll rail about it.

But - "und dis is ein big butt" - I understand about the "need" for the nonsense.

And if "the Pious" feel persecuted, that's not the fault of atheists.

That's their own neurosis.

[flamingdem]

50. Everyone is wrong. We're here because of the Aliens

Obama failed to mention that! Offensive..

[jeff47]

55. How DARE people want to follow the Constitution!!!

This isn't the right time. Just like right after Newtown was the wrong time to talk about guns. And all the wrong times in the 50s and 60s to talk about civil rights. And all the wrong times in the teens to talk about women's suffrage. And all the wrong times in the 1800's to talk about slavery.

Here's a hint: People who like the status quo always claim it's the wrong time. And they're always wrong.

[stevenleser]

56. Be aware that when you create titles like that, RW media may use your post to say that

Democrats on Democratic Underground are calling for Obama's impeachment.

They have done similar stuff before.

[Logical]

58. Is there some point you are trying to make or just trying to cause a fight? n-t

[krispos42]

60. Not "Jesus"?

Oh, dear, let's impeach the godless communist Muslim.

[Marrah_G]

62. As an organized religion hater, I find your post confusing

Should we be happy that you made a snarky post about impeaching him or happy that he is required to invoke a particular God to be sworn in?

I have to say, my reaction to both is "meh".

[JI7]

64. i don't believe the God part was required , it was something he wanted put in

[Rex]

67. They (POTUSs) all say that! Where you calling for their impeachment too!?

Hmmmmmmmmmm?