Apple makes me puke. Workers making ipads forced to work 24 HOUR shifts STANDING, endure toxic

[snagglepuss]

explosions and poisoning due to aluminum dust according to the NYT. It is effing despicable that any company would make its employees slave under these conditions but for a company that charges more for their products than any other company it is beyond contempt. What will it take for people to boycott this reprehensible company?


snip

Working excessive overtime without a single day off during the week, living together in crowded dormitories and standing so long that their legs swell and they can hardly walk after a 24-hour shift.

snip

Almost 140 workers at a supplier in China were injured two years ago using a poisonous chemical to clean iPhone screens - and two explosions last year killed four people while injuring more than 75.

snip


The California tech giant had allegedly been alerted to hazardous conditions inside the Chengdu plant in southwest China before the explosions at those plants, reported the New York Times.

‘If Apple was warned and didn’t act, that’s reprehensible,’ Massachusetts Institute of Technology work safety expert Nicholas Ashford told the New York Times.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092277/Inside-Chinese-factories-making-iPads-Apple.html#ixzz1kamG0Fm8

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I hope so does Microsoft

HP, Samsung and the rest. Same conditions, in fact for Microsoft SAME DANG factory.

And no, that does not make it better. But this is JUST apple is ignorant at best, given how many times this has been pointed out.

Solutions...

Well... KEEP YOUR MACHINES as long as possible... why? Reduce consumption.

But chiefly, PUSH for companies, not company, COMPANIES to be more responsible and SUPPORT union efforts around the world

[Snake Alchemist]

27. What is the name of the Microsoft tablet? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. The Xbox is produced there dear.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. The Xbox is produced there dear.

[Snake Alchemist]

74. Try again.

Brazil is one spot

http://thenextweb.com/la/2011/09/27/microsoft-will-start-manufacturing-xbox-360-in-brazil-prices-go-down/

The Chinese version of the Xbox 360 is produced by Flextronics I believe.

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/aug2005/id20050816_595546.htm

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

80. And at Foxconn. Try harder not to distort facts.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-10-workers-at-xbox-360-plant-threaten-mass-suicide

[Snake Alchemist]

83. wonder when they added them

We do know that Apple is Foxconn's biggest customer though. The rest are bit players.

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

86. They are really not "bit players"

Overall, Foxconn manufactures 40% of the world's consumer electronic products. If you think that Apple's success is that rampant then, well, I'm sure there's help available somewhere.

[Snake Alchemist]

87. And we do know that Apple is their biggest customer

It's simple to compare the number of iPod, iPad, and iPhone users to Xbox 360 owners.

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

88. You're skirting around the wider issue to absolve every other consumer electronic manufacturer from

the fact that they use labour in economically deprived countries is endemic to our society and culture. By pointing the fingers at the biggest customer of a company which makes FORTY PERCENT of ALL the world's consumer electronic components is not doing anything helpful.

[Snake Alchemist]

93. Absolutely zero absolution.

But the big fish get the most focus. In this case the biggest fish is Apple.

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

95. The "biggest fish" should be our entire culture.

That should be the real issue, but instead the media steers its focus almost entirely not just to the "biggest fish" but more or less exclusively to them.

It does so to avoid a debate on a much, much bigger picture.

[Snake Alchemist]

98. You could definitely argue that. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. No dear, please do read this story

Chinese Foxconn Workers Threaten Mass Suicide Over Xbox Pay Dispute

Workers at Chinese electronics giant Foxconn, angry over the shuttering of an Xbox 360 production line in the Chinese city of Wuhan, climbed to the roof of a six story dormitory and threatened to jump en masse if their conditions weren’t met.

The several dozen workers threatened mass suicide after Foxconn announced layoffs and transfers of workers and purportedly reneged on severance pay.


In a statement, Foxconn said that it did not change course on severance pay but that it was only offered to select workers.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/01/12/chinese-foxconn-workers-threaten-mass-suicide-over-xbox-pay-dispute/

By the way, and this is the rank truth... it is NOT Foxconn (as bad as it is), it is not Apple, (as bad as it is)... is the working conditions in CHINA...

I mean forming a UNION is forbidden, as well as improving the lot of Chinese workers by actually organizing labor. They are, in many ways, where American labor was oh circa 1850...

So it is time to stop this, bad, bad company, and realize it is quite systemic, and that they need our support in organizing labor unions, and do not get the eye off the dang ball. OUR lovely employers would love to go back to 1700.

[Snake Alchemist]

118. So they were angry about layoffs?

Not 12 hours shifts?

As I said before:

I wonder when MS added Foxconn


We do know that Apple is Foxconn's biggest customer though. The rest are bit players.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. No FOXCONN Added MS about the same time they added Apple

also, not that you probably know this, but Apple has demanded a few improvements in working conditions or they will move somewhere else.

http://www.supplychaindigital.com/outsourcing/apple-reportedly-to-shift-production-outsourcing

You got your eyes on a MINOR part of this and truly are missing the forest for the tree.

We own a macbook, and we own a Netbook that happens to read samsung on the box. I also own a cell phone made by Samsumg... we have a gaming box (sony) about ten years old... and at least at this home we are aware that all of this is made by slave labor, chiefly, non union, chinese slave labor.

It does not matter WHO or WHAT is says on the box. That is the kind of awareness that you got to have. We also are aware that we will use any of these boxes until they fail... why? My only way to protest quite a bit of this is reducing my consumption as much as I can by NOT replacing them. And when I do, I might as well get hand me downs on ebay... to again try to reduce my consumption. This means a glorified word processor. But I am aware that this is systemic, not just one factory in one country.

So I invite you to start looking at the dang forest, and not just one tree.

(Oh and bit players... we are talking of billions here... I do not consider this a bit player, but dang it, that be me)

[Snake Alchemist]

140. So Foxconn said. "You're going to make your products here from now on. Or else!" ? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. No, Foxconn is a symptom of globalization

at one time the same problem existed for Intel Drives in Manila.

As they say, this is far more complex than just one company

[Capitalocracy]

114. Or push for regulations, then they don't have a choice.

Why is our government allowing imported products of slave labor?

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. That is ONE of the many obvious solutions

[gateley]

2. I can almost guarantee the phone and computer you're using was manufactured in part under

the same circumstances. Apple is the easy target -- they ALL need to be targeted.

[snagglepuss]

8. That kind of whataboutery not only doesn't help anybody, it actually enables comapnies to continue

these despicable practices. Since Apple charges more for its product and since it is the most popular brand make it the target. Boo-effing-hoo if they feel unfairly targeted.

[gateley]

33. I was not apologizing or excusing Apple. My point is that we need to focus on ALL the companies

that utilize these suppliers. As a former Apple exec said in the article, if Apple came down hard, these abuses would stop. This is only focusing on Apple because their production is so vast, but the problem is wide-spread and ALL companies need to be held accountable. So don't worry, you can go on with your hard-on against Apple, it's justified, but don't let the others off the hook, either.

[snagglepuss]

49. My bad I was assuming you were trying to exhonerate Apple.

I agree the whole lot of them are bad apples which reminds me of a story a great-uncle told me about rats. Back in the 1920s he was working in basement of a building that was over run with rats. He grabbed a rat with long iron tongs and singed the rat's fur till it was smoking in a furnace, then let the rat loose, after that all the rats disappeared.

[gateley]

51. Somebody else downthread reminded us of all the other industries, too. The article

mentioned that Nike and Gap DID institute changes as a result of public pressure, so I'm hoping these articles in the NYT will increase awareness (and outrage) so they will be overwhelmed and take action.

Good analogy about the rat.

[aquart]

61. By all means, diffuse the protest and let them all escape.

In effect, that does excuse Apple. And calling rightful rage a "hard-on against Apple" is dismissive and demeaning which ALSO excuses Apple.

[gateley]

64. The people who don't use Apple products might feel this doesn't concern them. Everybody needs to

know that this is wide-spread and not limited to one company.

I had the same complaint when Nike was in the spotlight for their manufacturing practices. The other athletic shoe manufacturers weren't pressured. Nike, (and Gap) according to this article made changes as a result of the pressure. Meanwhile, other manufacturers slide under the radar.

It is not my intent to excuse Apple and it is my hope that these high-profile articles will result in Apple insisting on compliance with their stated standards, and hopefully improvement.

I just don't want the other companies to breath a sigh of relief that Apple has taken all the heat and continue with their just-as-shameful practices.

So I disagree with your argument.

[MichaelMcGuire]

35. hear hear

[WCGreen]

63. Apple is singled out because they put themselves out there as some kind of Boutique business that

is on the cutting edge and too hip to be cool...

[gateley]

65. Fine - let them be highlighted and made an example, but don't let the others off the hook! That's

all I'm saying, but this seems to have devolved into a love Apple/hate Apple disagreement which doesn't address the real problem at all.

[WCGreen]

147. And of course that is unfortunate because it is an industry wide problem...

Ultimately, it is the cosumers for demanding cheap on the edge toys that is driving all of this....

[gateley]

150. I don't know what we could do to rein it in. We could insist on Made In America

items, but I don't know how feasible that actually is. And I'm not sure how many people would get on board -- as you say, we're the ones who are demanding these things.

[Romulox]

3. All I know is this: the biggest company in the world has ZERO responsibility here--EVERYBODY

is doing it, so... meh.

Is this needed?

[MarianJack]

4. And many see Steve Jobs...

...as practically a saint. Go figure.

Maybe he's the patron saint of getting people to part with more money for the newest upgrade every 6 months.

PEACE!

[Atman]

15. Last I heard, Jobs was still dead.

As for the upgrades -- shit, I didn't know that! I'd better rush home and pay to upgrade my old iMac G5 which still performs quite nicely and still runs Photoshop and Illustrator and gets my mail and downloads my porn. And I haven't paid anything to upgrade. I did just install a RAID array so I could run Time Machine, because after 6-7 years now, I thought I should probably do a complete back-up of the HD.

My iPhone IOS5 upgrade was free, as well.

One of these days I'll open up one of these Apple-bashing threads and one you people will actually have a clue WTF you're talking about. Until then...I'll just wade through the stupid.

.

[Downtown Hound]

38. Really? Apple doesn't make you pay over $100

to upgrade from Mac OS 10.2 to 10.3 and then 10.4 and then 10.5 each time? News to me, because I used a Mac for years, and had to pay that ridiculous upgrade fee every time.

Ditched the Mac years ago too. Fuck Apple.

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

45. How is that any different from Windows?

95, 98, ME, XP, Vista & 7 are the ones I've used so far.

For your information, Apple adjusted the fee for new versions of their OS - it's been a $29.99 fee for Snow Leopard & Lion.

[Snake Alchemist]

53. Try upgrading your PC with Mac OS. nt

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

58. What is that supposed to mean?

I'm not sure how that provides greater insight into the fact that the owners of both formats regularly offer new versions of their operating system at a cost.

[Downtown Hound]

110. No, Windows doens't charge you for updates to an OS

Updates to Windows XP, or Vista, or Windows 7 are ALWAYS free. They do charge for a whole new OS. And the new OS actually is, gasp...a new OS. It looks different, feels different, and IS different from the previous one.

Apple on the other hand, has been using OS X for more than a decade now. Talk about milking it for all it's worth. And they charge for little measly updates of the same damn OS X, and give it the name of some new large cat. I saw pratically no difference between Jaguar and then Panther and then Lion or whatever other fucking cat they're on now. And I still don't see any major difference that warranted all those hundreds of dollars I spent on upgrades.

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

115. Oh Jesus...

Right, last post on anything related to Apple, Foxconn, Microsoft or whatever for a couple of weeks at least...

OS X has 'evolved' aesthetically almost as much as Windows over the last 12 years, and it ha had less 'evolving' to do, especially now given that it looks great while Windows 7 is still pug ugly. If you find the under the hood changes imperceptible, I suggest stepping away from computers entirely.

It is almost certainly true than Windows has had more chopping and changing, but more change is necessary. Why not give a massive overhaul to a product that needs it? That would be silly.

I can, in some circumstances, see very real reasons for using Windows, and 7 is the best yet.

However, if you want to tell yourself that you are paying for OSX 'service packs' then fine. You're just wrong.

[Downtown Hound]

123. I paid $130 to upgrade OS X every time while I used it

And every time, it was exactly the same as the last. So yeah, I will tell myself that I paid for OS X service packs, because that's what I did.

Oh and, my family still uses macs, and the TOTALLY NEW AND REVAMPED OS X of today looks exactly like it did 10 years ago. Sorry.

[Atman]

129. So someone suckered you. Oh well.

As for "the looks," that seems to be a Windows-user hangup. OSX has changed minor things as far as the looks, but there have been some pretty substantial functional changes. Obviously, you like Windows, so when you upgrade you want a talking paperclip, or candy-colored 3-D icons with lots of beveled edges and drop shadows. Good for you...I'm sure the hackers and viruses tapping into your machine appreciate the aesthetic differences.

[Downtown Hound]

142. Actually, I like Linux

I only use Windows for certain tasks. And given that I have a dgree in IT security, I don't worry about hackers too much.

[Downtown Hound]

107. Windows actually gives you a whole new operating system

Not the same one with a few tweaks.

[Atman]

59. If you ditched your Mac years ago, why were you still paying Apple for all those updates?

The incremental updates you mentioned -- obviously bullshit, since you wouldn't be updating to current software on a computer you don't have -- rarely cost money. Apple, like Microsoft, charges for full version upgrades. But what do I know? I actually still use Macs and they inform of updates via "Software Update," and I do. And they don't charge me (again, unless it is a full-version upgrade).

You and Romulux are clearly heads of the He Man Apple Haters Club. Good for you. I'll keep using the products that work best for me. Thanks for your advice.

.

[Downtown Hound]

108. Oh, I stopped at 10.4. LOL.

Which came out years ago. I got tired being Apple's bitch.

[cliffordu]

75. Just got my update for free.

Widows charges for each upgrade, and SOME of the POS upgrades kill your fucking OS altogether by making incompatible with your programs, peripherals, or what have you.

YMMV, of course.

How's that antivirus software working for ya??? lol......

[Downtown Hound]

109. Windows doesn't charge for updates

They charge for a WHOLE NEW OPERATING SYSTEM. Apple is the one that charges for updates, and the new version always looks, gasp...exactly like the old one.

[cliffordu]

113. And those new looks protect from script kiddies and malware, too, don't they......

[Downtown Hound]

124. Been using PC's for about five years now

And never really had a problem with script kiddies or malware. Certainly nothing that would justify paying Apple's premium prices for a product that's no better.

My MP3 player was about $100 less than an ipod also, and it does exactly the same thing.

I've also never had the blue screen of death, but the last few times that I've used macs, I've definitely got the spinning wheel of death. More than once.

[Romulox]

126. Major OSX upgrades, e.g. from Leopard to Snow Leopard, or SL to Lion, cost $$$.

[MarianJack]

77. OK now,...

...I guess that there isn't a new version of thje iphone coming out every few months. Or the ipad. I guess that I'm imagining all those lines of people waiting to buy them and replace their old devices.

Yes, I do know what I'm talking about and thank you for conceeding the validity of my point by resorting to name calling.

Welcome to the ignore list.

[Atman]

79. Waaaa! I'm on your ignore list! But for people who still get it...

I missed your post of outrage that Samsung or LG came out with a new TV and you were "forced" to buy it. I missed your outrage about the old laptop you're using, still running Windows ME or Vista, and how you were "forced" to upgrade.

Use whatever the hell you want. I upgraded to an iPhone 4 (nope, no 4S...no one forced me) when my Nokia flip phone became worthless. AT&T (which I hate, but is a whole other story), gave me a reasonable deal. We also have an iPad 2, with no data plan. No one forced me to do anything.

When will you people get over this Apple hatred and realize that they are like any other company? They introduce new products and new services and try to get new customers to buy them. It is what companies do. Cable companies, grocery stores, whatever...it's called business. Apparently, if your business becomes successful, then you're supposed to start giving your product away for free.

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

81. There's a new iPhone / iPad approximately once per year.

As I stated elsewhere, Apple actually brings out considerably fewer products than almost all of its competitors, but facts appear to be alien to the DU 'Tech Party' crowd. Either that or they are wilfully ignored.

[Atman]

84. Oops...I forgot that gem...

Apple is forcing new products on us "every few months." Funny thing is, as an Apple user, I seem to be waiting a year or so, at least, for substantial product upgrades. Often I wait longer than I'd like. But, as you said, facts should never get in the way of a good "Apple Sucks!" rant.

[NightWatcher]

5. Can't these people quit? They're not slaves

Or maybe after they've had enough, they'll get together to demand better conditions.

Everything from china (aka everything) is made under similar horrible conditions. Picking on Apple and not Microsoft or Nike is just more fashionable these days.

[Romulox]

9. Indeed! "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche!" nt

[snagglepuss]

17. That is truly a despicable comment, something I would have expected to be made by a freeper

not by someone of DU. You obviously would agree with the banner flying over the plant "Work hard on the job today or work hard to find a job tomorrow'" So you are telling me that if your boss made you stand 24 hours in a potentially toxic environment with no safety regulation in this economy where jobs are scarce you'd simply quit with no fight? You think its fair that people's fears of being without any source of income san be exploited by management?








Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092277/Inside-Chinese-factories-making-iPads-Apple.html#ixzz1karpQdru

[Shankapotomus]

89. If it's that bad, yes, quit

Get the hell out of there.

[snagglepuss]

91. China has no welfare, no social safety net and there are millions

vying for jobs. How do you suggest they support their family? Do you think if their backs weren't up against a wall they wouldn't all quit?

[Shankapotomus]

104. Oh I get it, Chinese, Wall

Chinese people up against a "wall"? Chinese, Great Wall of China. Are you trying to be funny?

[snagglepuss]

106. You're really hysterical. Not.

[CanSocDem]

133. You should check...

...out the thread entitled The Unseen China to see why people won't quit their jobs.

.

[Atman]

6. It's the daily stupid, ignorant "I Hate Apple" thread!

Turn off your Samsung TV, shut down your HP laptop, power down just about any electronics you currently use in your day-to-day life. These are NOT "Apple" plants. They are Foxconn, a massive Chinese vendor used by many of the top consumer electronics firms in the United States to satiate our appetite for tech goodies and toys.

As a couple of posts here yesterday and the day before noted, Apple actually brought some of the trouble to light. It is NOT their plant, they rely on Foxconn because there are no longer any United States manufacturing facilities which can produce the gadgets we want. Our government sold the country down the river, outsourced everything to the cheapest labor source possible, and Apple is one of the companies competing under the same shitty-ass system promoted by people like Mitt Romney.

Hate on Apple all you want...but it would be nice if you actually brought some facts to the table as you rant.

.

[Romulox]

12. Agree with Atman! APPLE doesn't abuse workers. It's the companies that Apple HIRES who abuse workers

Because Apple subcontracts its human rights abuses, it is completely absolved of any responsibility.

Plus, everybody's doing it, if the above doesn't fly.

[Atman]

16. Is that what I said, Romulux? Really?

Nice job at twisting the words. I didn't say Apple was absolved of anything. I pointed out that Apple just recently shined a little light on the issue itself, and is working on ways to make its vendors treat their employees better. But go ahead, post some smilies, ignore what I actually posted. Cool. You're so awesome!

[Romulox]

20. In essence, it is precisely what you said. nt

[Atman]

22. In "essence?" WTF is "essence?" I wrote actual words.

You turned them into a steaming pile of bullshit that I didn't say. In essence.

.

[Romulox]

23. That's right--walk it back! nt

[Atman]

25. God, your game has gotten so old.

But at least it's predictable.

.

[Romulox]

28. No game. It's called "having principles" and "not making excuses for the poweful". Try it! nt

[cliffordu]

76. Hey - Just for shits and giggles, what kind of computer are you using to access this place???

And why aren't using pen and paper, or at least something made by union labor here in the US???

[Romulox]

119. I put this computer together. None of it was made at Foxconn. It's a myth that it's not possible.

Intel Sandy Bridge CPU = made in Malaysia
Asus Mobo = made in Taiwan
Ram = made in Korea
Nvidia graphics card = Made in Taiwan
HDD = made in Thailand
Case = made in Taiwan

Didn't expect that answer, did you? Now keep on telling me that "everybody's doing it"!

[expatriate2mex]

120. I don't use anything but Asus motherboards. Foxconnn is NOT the only game in town.nt

[Romulox]

121. Right on. I also forgot to mention my Roland soundcard--Made in Japan. nt

[Atman]

122. BWHAHAHA!

Yes, the working conditions in Malaysia and Taiwan and Korea are infinitely better than those in China. Worlds apart.

Also, I've been to Thailand...my brother in law owns a company there that employs ten people. When I was there last, he had just constructed a virtual tarpaper shack for his workers. Like, less than a lawn shed you'd buy for your backyard. No windows, just a door and a thatched roof. The guys would squat on the front porch with an electric cooking pot to steam their dinner. AND THEY WERE THRILLED. They had jobs. They worked long, hard days (landscape architecture, moving rocks, laying stone, digging holes in the hot sun). They got paid almost nothing, but had a roof, which they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Before you fire off your reply, understand that I was freaked out. Appalled. I thought my BIL was like a slave-trader or something. How is this considered GOOD that these people were living in lawn-mower sheds? It was good because, based upon the general economy, they had a roof over their heads and electricity, and got paid every week. My BIL, who is British, was very generous, too. Much more so than most locals, because he was a Westerner. He brought them food, gave them clothes, gave them company trucks to drive around in -- yup, brand new Toyota HiLux pickups, he had a fleet of five -- and they seem genuinely appreciative. When he brought me to his work site, they seemed very happy to meet me, as if they were meeting the brother in law of royalty or something. I know this sounds crazy, but until you've experienced, you're talking out of your ass.

You're patting yourself on the back because you assembled a computer from crap made in virtually the very same environments...but they're not Foxconn, and they aren't Apple, so you're all good.

Dream on. And yeah, it was pretty much the kind of answer I expected from you.

[Romulox]

125. tl;dr. Assume a MAJOR goalpost shift! nt

[Atman]

127. Assume major obfuscation and rationalization.

I didn't change the goal post at all. I laid it on the line. I actually have some first-hand knowledge, whereas you're a self-agrandizing poseur-hater. You're superior to all because you buy cheap shit slave-labor products, but you buy them from someone other than Apple's suppliers. I bow down to your awesomeness! Malaysian slave labor is morally superior to Chinese slave labor! (BTW, where is Taiwan?)

.

[Romulox]

130. The implicit claim was that my machine was made at Foxconn; it wasn't.

Time for hysterics and overblown rhetoric; the facts are simply not on your side.

[Atman]

132. Oh, as long as it's not Foxconn, slave labor is cool

I get it. Malaysia, Korea, Thailand, whatever...Asian women and children working for $3 a week is cool as long as they don't work for Foxconn. No, really, I understand. You're able to rationalize your slave-made computer parts because they didn't come from Foxconn, and you assembled them yourself, with no help from Apple. Whatever works for you. Really, I get it.

[Romulox]

137. The average monthly household income in S. Korea is $3480/per MONTH.

You are just hideously misinformed.

Source:

http://kostat.go.kr/portal/english/news/1/7/index.board?bmode=read&bSeq=&aSeq=252523&pageNo=1&rowNum=10&navCount=10&currPg=&sTarget=title&sTxt=

[Atman]

138. What does that have to do with anything?

I don't recall anyone discussing "the average monthly household income" in South Korea.

As long as you can sleep soundly cuddled in your rationalizations, good for you. DU's own capitalist snuggle bunny.

[Downtown Hound]

41. "Is that what I said, Romulux? Really?"

Yeah, it sounded to me like that's what you said.

[ChromeFoundry]

68. That is absolutely what you said.

If the public didn't raise a stink about this, Apple would not have any problem with Foxconn's practices. You passing blame around doesn't help the matter. Apple holds the largest contract with Foxconn, therefore, holds a larger bag of shit.

It simply is amazing to me that someone would attempt to defend a crime against humanity with the argument "everybody else is doing it." It's wrong. Period.

If you come back and make a post with the title. "Apple was wrong. Period.", fine I'll drop this debate, right here, right now... but what you are doing is defending Apple by stating other are wrong too... I've seen kindergarteners offer better arguments.

[Atman]

73. No, it absolutely is not.

Jesus, I understand that it is what you wanted to hear, but it is NOT what I said. I did not attempt to ignore anything; I commented on the repeated, daily threads about "Apple" doing all these terrible things without a word being mentioned about Foxconn. All I said was that this is NOT about an "Apple" factory...it is about a Foxconn factory which has contracts with virtually every major electronics manufacturer. It is popular to bash Apple these days, I understand that.

I did not, once, ever, make the argument that "everyone else is doing it so it's okay for Apple to do it." Not once. I merely stated that after seeing this same thread appear over and over and over again, it would be nice if one of you would bother to state the case factually -- that this is NOT an "Apple" factory. The other thing you're conveniently leaving out, because it suits your Apple-bashing agenda, is the report Apple released a few days ago about the conditions in the Foxconn factories, and the company looking into ways to improve conditions. I didn't hear a word about Samsung or Sony being concerned about this, or any of the others of Foxconn's hundreds of clients.

But you go right ahead and pretend that all I said was that it's okay for Apple because everyone else is doing if it makes you feel high-and-mighty and all superior because you hate Apple.

.

[Ezlivin]

13. +1

I'd love to see one discussion of how this country got rid of those labor practices and how good the union was for improving working conditions.

When strong unions emerge in China this problem will be rectified. But as soon as working conditions improve, salaries and benefits will rise and so will costs. Transnational companies will then look for the next unregulated Republican paradise to exploit workers at a greater profit.

[Romulox]

14. President Clinton (D) signed the "Most Favored Nation" trading status with China (minus any pesky

human rights restrictions, of course.)

"Transnational companies will then look for the next unregulated Republican paradise to exploit workers at a greater profit."

[newspeak]

141. why do you think those corporations are over there?

there won't be any unions. It is against the law to form a union-I believe it's twelve years in a chinese prison. These corporations have as much morals and ethics as a con artist ripping off the most vulnerable-oh, as much as enron heads.

[The Straight Story]

37. I think it because people expect more from apple given their history, apparently they shouldn't(nt)

[Logical]

54. "stupid, ignorant" classy! Should be banned.

[zorahopkins]

62. Apple Could Choose To Locate Its Factories in the USA

Apple, I think, is a US CORPORATION

It is a US CORPORATION that chooses to locate its factories outside the USA.

It could locate its factories here, but then it would have to pay its workers a decent wage and provide decent benefits.

I do NOT want to hear that Apple is blameless in all this.

Apple, INC is NOT innocent.

[abelenkpe]

7. Its not just Apple and it's not just all electronics

The clothes we wear are mostly made in China under the same circumstances and so are many of the toys we buy our kids. I love how everyone is piling on Apple but forgetting Microsoft utilizes the same factory. It is sickening and no company that sells products in our country should be allowed to produce their products under such circumstances.

I keep hearing China is an economic powerhouse set to dwarf the west. Maybe it's because they use near slave labor? Maybe we should stop enabling them? Seems like this is what republicans and Ron Paul libertarians want for the US though. A country with no regulations on business, where corporations are free to pay workers little, provide no benefits and not be burdened by having to have a safe working environment.

[gateley]

42. You're right - this article pinpoints Apple but includes other tech companies as well, but no

mention of the other industries, except that Nike and Gap DID insist on changes as a result of public pressure.

A former Apple exec was quoted in the article saying that if Apple put their foot down, conditions would improve. Another said, if half the iPads (or maybe iPhones) were failing, do you think Apple would allow it?

It stands to reason this would apply to other companies and industries as well.

As always, it's up to us to make our feelings known. Relentlessly.

[fascisthunter]

10. holy moly... is Microsoft and other Competitors out to get APple or what

every company who has manufacturing are doing this, but Apple is being singled out.

[Snake Alchemist]

24. Isn't Apple the biggest company in the world?

What name is the name of Microsoft's tablet?

[Riftaxe]

11. But you're missing the point! owning apple

gives you that smug feeling of paying twice as much for half the product.

[fascisthunter]

18. Anti-Apple Fan Boys vs. Apple Fan Boys

I utilize both platforms, Windows and OS X... no contest. And as for the hardware, dependable... Security: safe... Viruses: never had ONE!... Customer Service, very good so far.

Now I experience with Windows and PC's... operating system, sucked, confusing, verrrry buggy and bloated... hardware: cheap unless you build your own with top-of-the-line hardware... viruses! Security issues galore... customer service: lol.

I remember hearing folks tell me the same thing you just posted and funny thing is the Apple Fan boys seem to be right... the Anti-Apple WIndow Fan Boys are lying or don't know what they are talking about.

[Riftaxe]

44. Oh i use both platforms

Which is why i wo0uld never be silly enough to actually buy one.

[originalpckelly]

145. While there are things I'd improve on an Apple...

they are higher quality by a long shot. Anyone who says otherwise simply hasn't used one.

[fascisthunter]

149. That's what I found.... and I once had my doubts

because of all the rhetoric.

[OhioChick]

19. Quote:

We've known about labor abuses in some factories for four years, and they're still going on,' former Apple executive says, 'Why? Because the system works for us'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46143670/ns/business-us_business/?ocid=vt_fbmsn?gt1=43001#.TyGpsPlBmt9

[onehandle]

21. A few companies who's products are made in the same factories as Apple's by the same workers:

Acer Inc.
Amazon.com
ASRock
Asus
Barnes & Noble
Cisco
Dell
EVGA Corporation
Hewlett-Packard
Intel
IBM
Lenovo
Logitech
Microsoft
MSI
Motorola
Netgear
Nintendo
Nokia
Panasonic
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony Ericsson
Toshiba
Vizio

All electronics, be it in your computer, your phone, your car, or even your refrigerator, are overwhelmingly made in China, in the same factories that Apple uses.

Wish it was otherwise.

[Snake Alchemist]

26. Please list how much production each company does with this factory. nt

[onehandle]

29. Not factory, factories. Soon coming to Brazil and other countries.

And Foxconn does not reveal their customer's information.

However, collectively Apple sells far fewer units and far far fewer variety of products than their competitors. It's easy to see that they make more for other companies than Apple. They make dozens of Android phones alone.

The spotlight is on Apple because of their high profile. If Google only sold Google branded phones, instead of licensing to dozens of companies, they would be in these headlines about Chinese labor, not Apple.

[Snake Alchemist]

30. But we do know that Apple is Foxconn's biggest customer

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/07/with-a-big-bite-of-apple-taiwans-foxconn-is-poised-to-control-half-of-all-electronics-manufactuing-/1

[onehandle]

31. That article is from a year and a half ago.

However, I'm sure that Apple is their single biggest customer, especially in revenue.

But again, Foxconn and Apple are simply in the spotlight.

This may 'surprise' you, but but Foxconn is not the only manufacturing company in China.

Other than your computer or phone, what is on and around your desk, probably even including your desk. People are working under torturous conditions and dying in China, to make them.

[Snake Alchemist]

36. Isn't Apple the most valuable company in the world?

Don't you think we should focus on the big players making obscene profits via neo-slavery?

[OhioChick]

32. It looks like Apple has a contract with Pegatron now....

Pegatron underbid Hon Hai - Foxconn's parent company - for the exclusive rights to build Apple's next generation tablet device

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41293/apple-drops-foxconn-for-ipad-3

"Underbid?"

[Snake Alchemist]

39. Pentagram you say? nt

[OhioChick]

40. .......

[gateley]

43. Ha! I read it as Pentagon! nt

[onehandle]

46. That article is from last July and is incorrect. Pegatron makes about 12% of iPhones.

And it's my understanding that they will be making about 15% of iPad 3s.

If it was up to me, Apple would let them both rot.

[Snake Alchemist]

47. Please link to updated info showing Foxconn's new #1 customer.

I agree with letting them both rot. It will be interesting to see the conditions in the new Brazilian facility.

[DeschutesRiver]

134. Maybe you know the answer - I read that Samsung's Galaxy tablet is made in S. Korea

Is that true? Am wondering because I don't have a tab, want one, but do not wish to buy Apple because of what I've read. Also read that all of their mobile phones are made in SK too.

I've seen Samsung on the list of "things made at Foxconn", but also read the opposite, ie that they use factories in S. Korea, so now have no idea.

Do you happen to know where I could find out for sure where the tablet and/or its component parts are made? Have been googling, not getting anywhere on my stupid dialup.

[onehandle]

135. Samsung is a South Korean company. Their components are made in China.

They may 'assemble' some devices in South Korea, but 95% of manufacturing is done in China.

Blackberry is in a similar boat. The parts are made in China, the devices are 'assembled in Canada.

Foxconn makes the Galaxy devices for Samsung.

[DeschutesRiver]

136. Thanks for that info

Since I've never had a tablet before, I likely won't know what I'm missing

I have already taken a stand on eliminating quite a few things from my life, because I don't agree with the trade or labor or safety or inhumanity practices that bring these goods to me, for pennies against the toll they take on other humans. A ton of these goods aren't even safe for me to use or ingest. Might not add up to any real change in the world or even make a dent of a difference in how these biz operate, but it does mean something to me, and that is enough.

Might as well add the tablet to this pile of things I'm rejecting. In many ways, my life usually has become better as I've jettisoned things, so probably this will be more of a life enhancer than a downgrade given the way I choose to live.

[NYC Liberal]

34. Almost every major technology manufacturer in existence today makes me puke.

Fixed that for you.

[Initech]

48. This is being posted hourly anymore.

And Apple gets the most crap again for it. But I'm going to keep repeating this until people fucking get it.

It's called vulture capitalism. Companies will find the cheapest source of labor they can.

Look at China. Once they start demanding better working conditions the corporate fuckers will pack up and head for India and Thailand.

When they start demanding better working conditions they'll head for Namibia, Tanzania, and Uganda.

Then where? South America? Central America? Or back to the now desperate US?

And when they're all out of optins they'll fire all the workers who will then replace them with machines. It's a pattern - until we break the profit machine nothing will stand in their way. I'm tired of the relentless Apple bashing - anyone who produces a product anymore operates this way.

[girl gone mad]

78. Apple deserves to get the most crap for engaging in these practices.

If you read the article, it's clear that they are the worst offender, and yet they are the company that has the least to lose by giving up a little bit of profits to ensure better working conditions. Still they refuse to do so.

Apple can't simply move production to some other third world country. It's not that simple for them.

What's more, if people start to see their products as worthless trash because Apple treats its workers like worthless trash, then Apple can't just run away from the issue any longer. I can tell you, I would be embarrassed to use an iphone in public right now, knowing that it was made by abused workers, many of whom are children.

[Initech]

82. How do you know conditions are just as bad at other factories?

I'm not saying Foxconn is good in the slightest - don't get me wrong - but they're the biggest no question. But how do we know other factories in China and Taiwan are just as bad if not worse?

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

85. How are Apple "the worst offender"?

In fact, they are one of - if not the only - one of these companies to have made even a small effort to improve working conditions. Again, "Apple" do not treat "their" workers like trash, a massive supplier used by many, many companies has a questionable record in that area.

The situation is a sorry one and change is needed, but to project it all on to Apple is like calling Obama a Kenyan, Muslim Marxist. It is engineering of an agenda and a distortion of the truth designed to shovel blame and hatred in one direction rather than question the bigger picture and look at how almost ALL tech products are made.

I'll be "ashamed" of using an iPhone when you become "ashamed" of using your computer. And perhaps your television. And perhaps your mobile phone, and maybe your wireless router, and possibly your car...and how about your refrigerator? Where was that made? Are you using Microsoft Windows? What about your DVD player?

If people address the bigger picture and accept that everyone in the western world is "guilty" to some extent, perhaps we could get a consensus going that could, with time, influence real change. I don't think anyone is serious about that, they'll just rant from behind their (Chinese made) computer and pat themselves on the back for having a conscience which makes them morally superior.

[snagglepuss]

92. How many people do you suppose Apple has anonymously defending them in online forums?

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

94. I'm not defending Apple so much as I am calling out the hypocrisy

and inattentiveness of those who seek to blame Apple for the way the capitalist, market world has been operating for a long time and doing it from behind their Foxconn-made products. It is cognitive dissonance worthy of Free Republic.

No one has said that Apple deserves a free pass, but we need to be calling on ALL of these companies to work to improve conditions among their suppliers. 40% of the world's consumer electronic components come from Foxconn alone; whoever the biggest customer is, that is an astonishing statistic and indicative of just how reliant our entire culture is on product from economically deprived nations.

[snagglepuss]

96. Isn't the phrase "Life is Unfair" the Capitalist mantra?

Since it's easier to go after one company, why not Apple? Why not shame their sickening greed?

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

97. I don't think it addresses the issue itself.

It only addresses the malpractice of one company. It's really as simple as that.

[snagglepuss]

100. In the 1920s my great-uncle was working in basement of a building that was over run with rats.

One day he grabbed a rat with long iron tongs and singed the rat's fur till it was smoking in a furnace, then let the rat loose, after that all the rats disappeared.

[MichaelMcGuire]

116. Hypocrisy?

You'd need others in this thread to start defending other companies using Foxconn.

[girl gone mad]

112. Here is how:

Two years ago, 137 workers at an Apple supplier in eastern China were injured after they were ordered to use a poisonous chemical to clean iPhone screens. Within seven months last year, two explosions at iPad factories, including in Chengdu, killed four people and injured 77. Before those blasts, Apple had been alerted to hazardous conditions inside the Chengdu plant, according to a Chinese group that published that warning.

Apple knew about this issue and did nothing, despite having all the means in the world.

“Apple never cared about anything other than increasing product quality and decreasing production cost,” said Li Mingqi, who until April worked in management at Foxconn Technology, one of Apple’s most important manufacturing partners. Mr. Li, who is suing Foxconn over his dismissal, helped manage the Chengdu factory where the explosion occurred.

“Workers’ welfare has nothing to do with their interests,” he said.

This is a charge specifically leveled against Apple.

“If you see the same pattern of problems, year after year, that means the company’s ignoring the issue rather than solving it,” said one former Apple executive with firsthand knowledge of the supplier responsibility group. “Noncompliance is tolerated, as long as the suppliers promise to try harder next time. If we meant business, core violations would disappear.”

They've set up a system of inspections which appears to have been designed solely so that they can absolve themselves of guilt. The rules they implemented are not enforced. Abuses are tacitly approved.

“We’ve spent years telling Apple there are serious problems and recommending changes,” said a consultant at BSR — also known as Business for Social Responsibility — which has been twice retained by Apple to provide advice on labor issues. “They don’t want to pre-empt problems, they just want to avoid embarrassments.”

As the article outlines, Apple's competitors have been willing to pay suppliers more money so that they can improve conditions without obliterating the profit margin. Apple flat out refuses to do the same, despite being the most profitable company in the world.

[Ellipsis]

50. These threads are the only ones I've ever trashed.

and this ones no exception. in parting.....quit spamming the board with this crap.

[snagglepuss]

56. Awww. Do you identify with Apple? Why the hysterical reaction to criticism about Apple?

[LiberalArkie]

52. China has built itself as the just in time manufacturing location.

They can do this with people instead of machines. All these devices we buy that are made in China, could be built in the US with robotics and such. But to make a change in the way something is built takes a while to program into the machines. It only takes a few minutes to explain to people, that we are doing to do it this way instead of this way.

I think at some point the people will be replaced by machines in these factories, but having millions of people employed doing a mundane task, is far better than millions of people with nothing to do but to go to war.

[snagglepuss]

57. So slave labor is justified because it prevents war????

[JPZenger]

55. I heard an upsetting story on public radio

there was an upsetting story on public radio a couple weeks by an investigative journalist who was able to get access to several huge Chinese factories where they make tech devices for export. At one, a guy dropped dead after working 35 straight hours. he found that 14 hour shifts were common, and that most of the workers were 13 years old.

[zorahopkins]

60. BOYCOTT!!

I am totally in favor of a complete and total Boycott of all Apple products until this intolerable situation is remedied.

Apple is just another evil corporation that outsources its jobs to places where it can exploit the labor.

Why should any of us support such a company???

[Elwood P Dowd]

66. That would mean you must also boycott every single company that makes

phones, computers, keyboards, mice, TVs, DVD players, MP3 players, automotive electronics, surround sound receivers, and most other electronics, including products you use to access DU probably. The list of companies that use Foxconn and other similar Asian factories includes every major consumer electronics supplier.

[snagglepuss]

144. Make one company the example and what better company than Apple

which is making phenomenal profits on the backs of these workers.

[Zalatix]

71. Better yet... tariffs! or an outright EMBARGO!!!

[Prometheus Bound]

90. Aside from the initial inflationary effect, I'm not sure what the problem would be with tarriffs.

[Zalatix]

99. Some DUers think it will make us isolationist, racist, Luddites, etc.

Worse yet it might wean America off the global exploitationism kool-aid.

[Thrill]

67. Apple makes great products but

the more they use Foxconn to build their shit. The more their greed shows.

[unionworks]

69. Bring American Manufacturing Back

...enough of this shit

[Zalatix]

105. Right on!

[unkachuck]

101. K&R....n/t

[undeterred]

102. Well then you don't get warm fuzzies thinking about Steve Jobs either.

[raouldukelives]

103. Great time to pick up Apple stock!

Rack up those retirement dollars for a timeshare in Palm Springs on the backs of slave labor! It's a sound investment!

[MrSlayer]

117. Any and everything you buy that was made in China was made by slave labor.

And frankly anything you buy that is made anywhere but a first world country is too. Yeah, Apple sucks. So does everyone else. There isn't anything that can be done about it.

[hughee99]

128. You'd think they'd have at least one person on their Board of Directors

who would find this situation unacceptable... but I guess not.

[Romulox]

131. It's simply an "Inconvenient Truth" that money talks, I guess. nt

[Proles]

143. It's slave labor, frankly.

The thing is, this isn't a particularly new thing, nor is it only Apple who is responsible.

Many companies are complicit in this. You 'could' blame the consumer, but it'd be rather silly, seeing as how all of us (including myself), would be considered guilty - as I do in fact own an X-Box, smart phone, etc.

I think it's just this sort of thing is becoming more widely known due to the Internet and a more connected world. Perhaps one day we can force companies who outsource to abide by minimum standards used here. The foreign countries would hate it, but at least it would either ensure better working conditions over there, or entice companies to bring jobs back to America. So what if prices go up? I'd rather pay more for a product if it were made by people treated with dignity. Additionally, it probably wouldn't matter much because if jobs were brought back, Americans would have more money to spend anyways.

[DainBramaged]

151. Those of you who try to justify Apple's position by pointing at other manufacturers as no better

should think about NOT buying the next new anything until these companies become socially responsible. But that will happen as quickly as DU3 reverts back to DU2. And those of you who preach the evils of Microsoft and the wonder of Linux (to distract from the issue at hand) should realize Linux has less than less of a share of any market in the US than Mac OS.



NOT ONE PERSON on these forums is concerned with the plight of labor in China or anywhere else in the industrial parts of the world, NOT ONE, except Omaha Steve, who understands all too well what worker exploitation means here in America. But it looks like China will have to wait another century until they are fully emancipated from the greed of the capitalistic world they are slaves to.


Have a great life enjoying your Apple products. Apple (and their 40% gross margins) thanks you.