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TheMastersNemesis

(10,602 posts)
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:38 AM Jan 2013

Hardly Confident About The Long Term Well Being Of The Younger Generation

Even though I have a lot of confidence about the advance of technology that will improve life and living in unimaginable ways. On the other hand I have little confidence about the future economic prospects of the younger generation. The Reagan revolution has set into motion events that will make their life much more difficult and leave them with a "Blade Runner" world. And you can thank the GOP for all of it.

With no job security and the loss of 90% of mid range jobs in the economy $25,000 will look good in the future. At this point 70% of the jobs being created by generous big business will NOT feed a flee. 20% will be marginally living wage. And only about 10% will be viable jobs.

And article just came out in the AP that verifies what is going on. Right to work, work at will, end of labor laws et al will guarantee that this generation will not enjoy any of the work benefits their parents and grand parents did. What is amazing is that their parents and grandparents voted for the Reagan revolution over time. Or enough did anyway. The GOP was kept in power long enough to guarantee what is happening.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

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Hardly Confident About The Long Term Well Being Of The Younger Generation (Original Post) TheMastersNemesis Jan 2013 OP
On that topic... physioex Jan 2013 #1
In My Travels I Run Into So Many College Grads Working Crap Jobs. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2013 #2
And it is not just college grads - it is the young like my grandson who is very smart - manages a jwirr Jan 2013 #40
It's not a party for those over 50 if you've taken time off flamingdem Jan 2013 #3
Updated Skills Are Not Relevant If You Are Over 45 For The Fast Majority Of Workers. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2013 #5
I agree, there is a lot of disappointment after retraining flamingdem Jan 2013 #7
The point of globalization was to help all countries involved, at least as it was advertised. Selatius Jan 2013 #10
Absolutely, it's impossible to control that flow flamingdem Jan 2013 #11
But the job opportunities will be even fewer if Obama does as he has threatened JDPriestly Jan 2013 #33
it would have been great with higher taxes here Recursion Jan 2013 #31
That wasn't the goal. The goal was a race to the bottom. duffyduff Jan 2013 #42
Yes, and more than economic matters, elleng Jan 2013 #4
To me, the most critical crisis this county will be facing (is facing), is what is a job? The RKP5637 Jan 2013 #6
Good that you addressed the wider scenario, the picture is changing flamingdem Jan 2013 #8
It wasn't the GOP alone. Clinton passed NAFTA Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #9
Clinton Made A Huge Mistake That I Still Do Not Understand Today. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2013 #14
It's a pendulum. jeff47 Jan 2013 #12
I really wish it were that simple. defacto7 Jan 2013 #30
Your statements apply to previous swings too. jeff47 Jan 2013 #36
interesting defacto7 Jan 2013 #41
They had concerns they claimed were new which meant it could never get better jeff47 Jan 2013 #46
My position is not to determine whether today's problems defacto7 Jan 2013 #47
I agree. The old ways have never worked forever. Conditions change. Hoyt Jan 2013 #48
The main reason I voted for Obama is because I wanted the brighter future for my kids and the DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #13
I Am Not Sure That Obama Can Be Totally His Own Man TheMastersNemesis Jan 2013 #15
I totally agree with you, which brings me back to... DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #18
I Just Turned 69 And Have Been Reflecting On The History I Have Seen And TheMastersNemesis Jan 2013 #20
Yes, balkanized and fragmented, yet we all seem to be screaming for the same thing - JOBS. So DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #22
+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #23
Your posts woo me with science Jan 2013 #52
I Will Post More About Jobs In The Future.There Are Reasons Why The Job Market Is The Way It Is TheMastersNemesis Jan 2013 #53
+1 woo me with science Jan 2013 #57
Why would you be? This country is done. MrSlayer Jan 2013 #16
Nice to know I'm not alone in my frustration. I hate being so powerless. I hate feeling like I've DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #19
I'm right there too. MrSlayer Jan 2013 #21
That sounds rough. Sadly I hear this everyday. Everyone's living paycheck to paycheck and DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #25
Thanks. I appreciate that. MrSlayer Jan 2013 #27
Well, aren't we all in a bubbly mood tonight? socialindependocrat Jan 2013 #24
Yeah, something in the stars and the filibuster vote bringing people down flamingdem Jan 2013 #26
Yes, that decision today did bad things to my attitude, elleng Jan 2013 #28
It was such a good week then flamingdem Jan 2013 #39
I've written, voted, marched and occupied, in not one, but three cities. Who's listening? DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #29
Understood. defacto7 Jan 2013 #35
Yes it is. defacto7 Jan 2013 #34
+1 woo me with science Jan 2013 #58
Exactly why I have 2 properties on rivers..... alittlelark Jan 2013 #17
Already, the baby boomers are far less likely than their parents to have pensions. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #32
This is where I see the next civil war.... yorokmok Jan 2013 #37
Robotic technology is eliminating jobs wishlist Jan 2013 #38
Please stop that nonsense. This is the same garbage that the neoliberals are pushing duffyduff Jan 2013 #43
The difference: moondust Jan 2013 #44
As a 25 year old college grad living at home.. RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #45
What type of degree do you have? nt bluestate10 Jan 2013 #50
Psychology. RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #59
I have some faith. There is a growing number of ethical capitalists who recognize bluestate10 Jan 2013 #49
+1000 n/t defacto7 Jan 2013 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Jan 2013 #54
I often feel the same way kimtjj195_tx Jan 2013 #55
K&R woo me with science Jan 2013 #56
They will be fighting for FEMA rice at the Austin TX national shoreline datasuspect Jan 2013 #60

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
40. And it is not just college grads - it is the young like my grandson who is very smart - manages a
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:54 PM
Jan 2013

liquor store with only a high school education, wants to go to college but has no idea what to go for. His future does not look all that good either - only good thing is that he has not run up a huge college loan debt yet.

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
3. It's not a party for those over 50 if you've taken time off
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:44 AM
Jan 2013

or don't have up to date skills.

It's not just the young people who are suffering this turn but the
problem is when they never get to experience what it means to
have a good job.

I also blame globalization. So many are sent to the USA by their
families to get a start and the competition is brutal.

 

TheMastersNemesis

(10,602 posts)
5. Updated Skills Are Not Relevant If You Are Over 45 For The Fast Majority Of Workers.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:47 AM
Jan 2013

Employers simply do not want ANY liabilities. If you are imperfect in any way your are toast.

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
7. I agree, there is a lot of disappointment after retraining
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:00 AM
Jan 2013

for an older worker. It depends a bit on the area, sometimes they want reliable vs. young.

It seems in the past to have been partially about health insurance expense. I hope that at
least changes with ACA, though there was premium support before but I don't know how
much for hires over 50.

So you could say the young benefit from this distaste for older workers. Many factors here.

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
10. The point of globalization was to help all countries involved, at least as it was advertised.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:08 AM
Jan 2013

However, it seems, from its inception, the point of globalization was to commit labor arbitrage on a world-wide scale. It may be true that nations that trade with each other are less likely to go to war against each other (see China and the United States), but it'll be cold comfort to those who watched their living wage jobs go overseas to workers who make 60 cents an hour when one converts their wages back into American Dollars, and still, prices continue to rise, not decline, another point that was advertised as a plus with globalization.

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
11. Absolutely, it's impossible to control that flow
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:11 AM
Jan 2013

and then those who train here go back and compete against us, undercutting at all levels. So the future will be super competitive, and the life of the thinker, artist will be only for the 1% ... thinking dystopian here!

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
33. But the job opportunities will be even fewer if Obama does as he has threatened
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:48 AM
Jan 2013

and lets all who get degrees here stay to take our jobs.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
31. it would have been great with higher taxes here
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:44 AM
Jan 2013

send textile jobs to China, tax the more profitable companies more, and hire the laid off workers to do socially useful things. Triple win: Chinese workers get richer, Americans get cheaper shirts, and labor gets to do more socially useful things.

we just kind of forgot to do the important step there.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
42. That wasn't the goal. The goal was a race to the bottom.
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:05 AM
Jan 2013

Milton Friedman was one of the most evil men who ever lived. A total crackpot, but his "theories" justified something that cannot be justified.

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
6. To me, the most critical crisis this county will be facing (is facing), is what is a job? The
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:48 AM
Jan 2013

concept in this country of a job for all, the distribution of wealth, what it means to be a contributing member of society and the rewards thereof are all woefully obsolete. If we continue to try to patch with band-aids hemorrhaging wounds we will not make it ... some will, but most will likely fall by the wayside.

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
8. Good that you addressed the wider scenario, the picture is changing
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:02 AM
Jan 2013

Now some people make a living off the books renting their space through Airbnb and doing tasks for others, and you could call that entreprenurial.. People are more willing to enter into small business with little start up and experiment. It's a bit beyond me but a twentysomething probably has a different view of "work".

 

TheMastersNemesis

(10,602 posts)
14. Clinton Made A Huge Mistake That I Still Do Not Understand Today.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:22 AM
Jan 2013

And yes he is to blame as well. Lest we forget, Bush I negotiated that treaty in the first place. That fact does not make Clinton blameless unfortunately. And as long as we are stuck with this radical free trade it does not look good.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
12. It's a pendulum.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:16 AM
Jan 2013

It was really bleak for the poor in the 1920s. Then the pendulum started swinging back, and things were so good in the 1950s and 1960s that people decided they didn't need unions anymore. And so the pendulum swung back and once again it's really bleak.

The pendulum will swing again. And it will be really good again soon enough. Leading to another swing back.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
30. I really wish it were that simple.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:42 AM
Jan 2013

The world really is changing in ways we have never seen in the past. The world is smaller and has much less resources. We are also running out of new realistic ideas which were the hallmark of past economic strength. Now, ideas are what are undermining progress and forcing us into a hole that has never existed. The fact in a nutshell is that EVERYTHING must change. How we look at life, progress, business, politics, everything must be reinvented. If we don't change for the best outcome for humanity and it's survival, then there may be a time when those that "have" will live and those that don't..... ??

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
36. Your statements apply to previous swings too.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:19 AM
Jan 2013

Your statements could have come from a 1920s newspaper.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
41. interesting
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:00 AM
Jan 2013

but does that make the possibility less relevant? In the 1920's they did not have the concept of the planet and it's constituents as we do now; their lives were still very local. Nothing is local now and our understanding of how small the earth really is in every aspect, ie. physically, politically, economically, socially is far more advanced than it was 10 years ago let alone the 1920s.

I'm sure if we had newspapers available from the time of the ancient Greeks, they probably would have had similar viewpoints of their world that coincide with my comment as well. But there is a point of saturation, and if there were ever a time where we could begin to see that saturation, it's now. The planet surface is not getting any smaller, and those who live upon that surface are not decreasing in number.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
46. They had concerns they claimed were new which meant it could never get better
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 12:50 PM
Jan 2013

And then it got better.

Yes, today's problems are different from yesterday's problems. But they are not unsolvable, just like yesterday's problems were not unsolvable.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
47. My position is not to determine whether today's problems
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 11:43 PM
Jan 2013

are solvable or unsolvable. My position is also not to state that the playing field is different or not, but that the playing field has become smaller. So small in fact, that the game can no longer be played. There needs to be a new game because there will be no new field. Or you could say that it is no longer a game we play as organisms on an infinite plane; it's a fight for survival.

Maybe those from early last century were prophetic, and we are still in the same process.

 
13. The main reason I voted for Obama is because I wanted the brighter future for my kids and the
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:17 AM
Jan 2013

change in the economy he promised. I wouldn't have voted at all this past election because I didn't see any big change in employment, but voted for him again only for fear Romney would get in, and the few of us who have jobs would be replaced by Chinese slave labor.

I see a lot more police state laws being enacted and no jobs being created. I don't see him standing with us on marijuana issues or against big banks. I'm feeling betrayed and my children s future depends on about 600 rich people who don't seem to give a damn.

 

TheMastersNemesis

(10,602 posts)
15. I Am Not Sure That Obama Can Be Totally His Own Man
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:25 AM
Jan 2013

If you look at the leaders who pushed for social and economic justice in the past like King and the Kennedeys they were all assassinated.

And if you really think deeply about those events, they are still not satisfactorily explained.

 
18. I totally agree with you, which brings me back to...
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:43 AM
Jan 2013

If we can't vote people into office who do what's best for the country and her people, then what good is any of this? Have we really gotten to the point in this country where we expect that they'll murder our leaders if they do what's best for us the 99 percent?

And we're ok with this because?

 

TheMastersNemesis

(10,602 posts)
20. I Just Turned 69 And Have Been Reflecting On The History I Have Seen And
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:53 AM
Jan 2013

I am looking at it with a different perspective. I actually saw President Kennedy in a motorcade in Springfield, Illinois in 1962 as I remember. And I remember his assassination. And even then I felt the Warren Commission was a fraud. And a lot of files are secret until after every one today is even dead. Then came King And Robert Kennedy.

Now I look at assassinations of those leaders as more than coincidental. They happened for a reason. And I have seen all and every institution or organization like the NAACP marginalized or eliminated.

What is going on in the country is very dark to me and I now recognize forces that I never thought existed when I was a young man.

Like you I have notices how brutally the Occupy movement was beaten down and infiltrated. The Democrats themselves did not come to their support.

Too many things do not add up in the country. I am sure that you can lay the blame on many of the billionaires and millionaires and their allies because in my youth we NEVER had such huge wealth held by individuals until after Reagan was elected.

I cannot read where the electorate is at this time because the country is so balkanized and fragmented.

 
22. Yes, balkanized and fragmented, yet we all seem to be screaming for the same thing - JOBS. So
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:10 AM
Jan 2013

why is it that no one on either side of the government seems to be talking about this? Bush and Obama both bailed out the banks. WTH? Maybe if that money had been put into jobs programs those people would still be living in their homes and the banks wouldn't have needed bailouts. The whole thing was a huge scam, we all know it, and no one is even being charged for the crimes while "we the people" are beaten down and tazed. What's it going to be like 10 years from now?

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
16. Why would you be? This country is done.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:31 AM
Jan 2013

The generation that just retired saw the best America was ever going to be. I'm not going to do as well as my parents did and my kids are going to do worse. Ironically, it's that last generation that voted for Reagan and assured none of us would enjoy what they had.

They outsourced our jobs, busted our unions, depleted the treasury, robbed everything that wasn't nailed down and bought the Congress. And it's not just the Republicans, the Democrats sold out too. We're the goddamn party of Reagan, they're just nuts.

Forget about anything good ever happening for the people again. It doesn't matter what we think, it doesn't matter what we say. They own the media, they own the government and only the approved corporate line will be toed.

If we protest they'll beat us into submission and crush us in the media as they did to Occupy.

It's all over but the shouting.

 
19. Nice to know I'm not alone in my frustration. I hate being so powerless. I hate feeling like I've
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:53 AM
Jan 2013

failed my kids. I hate not being able to do anything other than pass the buck and point fingers at the other guy. We're all at fault here. We're all sitting by watching like a deer in the headlights. I'm sick, I'm tired, I'm scared.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
21. I'm right there too.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:04 AM
Jan 2013

Out of work over a year and a half, only worked in 18 of the 48 months of the Obama administration, savings gone, retirement money nearly depleted, unemployment running out in 8 weeks. My poor wife is working three and four part time shit jobs just to keep us from starving to death. Unemployment barely covers the rent.

No one has money for side work either.

I'm beyong frustrated. I'm infuriated, trrrified and getting desperate. I never thought this would happen to me. I never thought the goddamn Bush years would be the height of my career.

And all this because the greedy sons of bitches that own our congress can't plunder with full impunity. They're going to punish us for the next four years as they did the last four.

Something's got to give.

 
25. That sounds rough. Sadly I hear this everyday. Everyone's living paycheck to paycheck and
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:26 AM
Jan 2013

teetering on the edge. I don't care who's fault it is, someone (hopefully the president) needs to address the jobs issue. We're on a sinking ship, we're sending out SOS's and there's no help on the horizon. We don't want welfare, we want jobs. I never thought I'd hear myself say that.

Sending you good vibes and wishing your family the best.

socialindependocrat

(1,372 posts)
24. Well, aren't we all in a bubbly mood tonight?
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:11 AM
Jan 2013

I grew up in the 60s when we marched against the war and protested.

Back around 1997 I was working with a group of people 10 years younger than I
and I wrote a letter to the chief of security about something I thought needed to be
corrected.

When I told my workmates they got all excited and siad I'd netter stop rocking the boat or I was going to get into trouble and they would let me go.

I had noticed when I first started working for this very large corporation that the workers didn't start to speak up until they had worked there for 15 years or more.

This defeatest attitude just reduces the number of people we have that can lend their energy to writing and voting and marching and occupying and whatever it takes to get these things corrected.

Have heart people! We will make things turn around!


Stay focused and keep your spirits up.

Whoever said you can't fight cith hall was wrong.
It just takes some committed and angry people to make changes.

Look at all the corruption that has been exposed over the past 4 years.
Now that it's been exposed it can be dealt with.

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
26. Yeah, something in the stars and the filibuster vote bringing people down
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:27 AM
Jan 2013

but so far so good with Obama, and now he's starting that outside group to organize his peeps.

We won't go down without a fight!

elleng

(130,126 posts)
28. Yes, that decision today did bad things to my attitude,
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:30 AM
Jan 2013

and that of many others I think.

Good that we'll fight, but sheesh . . . .

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
39. It was such a good week then
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:59 PM
Jan 2013

cold water on the future and a disrespect for the voter's wishes. Oh well, the la lucha continua!

 
29. I've written, voted, marched and occupied, in not one, but three cities. Who's listening?
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:36 AM
Jan 2013

The corruptions been exposed and the banks are still giving great big bonus's. We get the Patriot act, NDAA, TSA, drones and no jobs. Good spirits don't keep food on the table. I wish I could be as positive.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
35. Understood.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:56 AM
Jan 2013

But you're heading the right direction for whatever it's worth. But now is now. You are us and we are you.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
34. Yes it is.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:53 AM
Jan 2013

Unless everything changes, and I mean everything. To have jobs is a whole different ball game than the past. It will take monumental government changes that PUT people to work, not wait for the wealthy corporate establishment to have pity on us or simply become benevolent. Things have to change.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
32. Already, the baby boomers are far less likely than their parents to have pensions.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:46 AM
Jan 2013

You're on your own is the motto of the Republican Party.

They have pretty close to drowned government in their hot tub and now we are left to roast on the coals.

yorokmok

(33 posts)
37. This is where I see the next civil war....
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:44 AM
Jan 2013

...it is not from the gun nuts because we are taking away the last vestiges of their manhood but from the people finding more and more hopelessness. Desperate people do desperate things. When they find themselves in a growing population of people in the same situation there will be upheaval and their will be change. As jobs are outsourced and become fewer and fewer because we are just a service economy more will be left by the wayside. But that 'wayside' will become a sizable number which will not be able to be ignored. The only reason that group is not recognized at this point is because they are not large enough...they are growing...it is coming.

wishlist

(2,795 posts)
38. Robotic technology is eliminating jobs
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:00 PM
Jan 2013

The unemployment/underemployment situation is not simply due to the recession and outsourcing but also technology that allows much higher productivity with many fewer workers. There was a show on TV last week that showed how factories and online retailers are employing robotics causing huge reduction in jobs.

Computer technology and automation has eliminated many mid level good paying jobs in offices too, including govt offices. The office where I worked was able to go from over 50 employees in the 1970's down to 30 now, even while the office services more than twice as many clients.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
43. Please stop that nonsense. This is the same garbage that the neoliberals are pushing
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:07 AM
Jan 2013

that workers are not "skilled" in the jobs that are available.

It's a bunch of CRAP. Outsourcing and trade policies are the reasons our economy is the ditch. Automation has been going on forever.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
44. The difference:
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:46 AM
Jan 2013

many of the machines now have brains (computers) so a human operator is no longer needed.

RedCappedBandit

(5,514 posts)
59. Psychology.
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:23 PM
Jan 2013

Hopefully I get into grad school this fall. Then I can delay hopelessness for another two years.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
49. I have some faith. There is a growing number of ethical capitalists who recognize
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:53 AM
Jan 2013

that businesses can't pay workers poor wages or pit one state or country against another to extract government assistance and even lower wage costs and prosper. The more progressive argument that spreading wealth downward as much as possible make not only good economic sense, it is also good for business growth and creation of wealth.

Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

 

kimtjj195_tx

(23 posts)
55. I often feel the same way
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:41 AM
Jan 2013

But then I remember that our older generations struggled with the same problems, and eventually prevailed. So I try to be hopeful.

 

datasuspect

(26,591 posts)
60. They will be fighting for FEMA rice at the Austin TX national shoreline
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:27 PM
Jan 2013

block by block gang wars in major cities fighting for expired pallets of ravioli-o's and Canadian bottled water.

120 degrees in march in dallas.

complete lawlessness and the breakdown of social order.

grandparents will tell fireside camp tales to young people of things called "jobs," $5/gallon gasoline, acres and acres of aisles of FOOD you could just go in and fill a basket with.

CLEAN water from faucets - each time you turned it on, the water came out.

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