Sunday Shooting Review

[Robb]

Here are just some of the stories of teens and children who were victims of gun violence this week (1/21-1/27).

• A 16-year-old boy was found shot in the head along with another man in a park.

• Three teens between the ages of 16 and 19 were shot during an argument at a party.

• A toddler and mother were shot by gunmen in a car.

• A 4 year-old girl was tied up and shot many times with a pellet gun.

• A young child was among three shot in a McDonald's parking lot.

• A 9 year-old boy was sitting in his living room watching TV when he was fatally shot in the head with a bullet fired from outside his house.

• A 3 year-old boy shot himself in the head with a handgun.

• An 11 year-old girl was shot in the face by her father.

• A 17-year-old boy died on the sidewalk in front of his house, shot after an argument.

• A 4 year-old boy shot himself in the head with a pistol he discovered in the car while his father was driving.

• A 4 year-old-boy shot himself with a revolver he discovered under a pillow.

• A 3 year-old boy shot himself with a handgun he discovered in his parent's room.

• A 4 year-old boy shot himself in the head with a handgun he found in the bathroom.

• A 5-year-old boy and his mother were shot by the father, who then set fire to the house and shot himself.

• A 4 year-old girl shot by her 6 year-old brother has died. The boy found the revolver under a jacket.

• A 2 year-old was shot by an 18 year-old while he was playing with a handgun.

• A 5 year-old was shot by a 7 year-old, using a handgun belonging to his 22 year-old brother.

• A 9 year-old boy, a 5 year-old girl and a 2 year-old girl were among five shot by a 15 year-old boy.

Special notice goes this week to the unbearable story of Chicago mother Shirley Chambers, who on Saturday lost her 4th child to gun violence. Ronnie was her only surviving son; her first child, Carlos, was shot and killed by a high school classmate in 1995 after an argument. He was 18. Her daughter Latoya, then 15, and her other son Jerome were shot and killed within months of one another in 2000.

[Robb]

1. Link to last week's review:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022222987

[Duckhunter935]

2. ban assault weapons

that are scary looking will make a big impact on that list. Tragic stories that play at your emotions. I see now we are including pellet guns.

Handgun legislation would help.

[samsingh]

3. it's depressing to read but it's important to record this information

so that people can see what guns are being used to do

[Duckhunter935]

5. how many

assault weapons?

[Hoyt]

11. Some of us aren't just focused on "assault" weapons, and we define them very differently

from gun culture.

The key to doing something about guns is to change view of guns just like smoking, polluting, discrimination, and other bad activities that are detrimental to society.

[Recursion]

4. This backs up what the larger data say: the problem is handguns

And particularly unsafely-stored handguns.

[backwoodsbob]

16. I've said all along

if we are gonna get serious about reducing gun violence we need to look at handguns

[Deep13]

6. If these are ones who have been shot...

...I have to wonder how many near-misses there were.

Side note, agree with above comment that pellet guns are not firearms, however reprehensible the described offense was.

[Robb]

8. I'm torn on that.

There was a 10 year-old killed by a pellet gun a few weeks ago. Apparently it's more commonly fatal than I imagined -- little wonder, as I never imagined it would be at all.

http://www.google.com/search?q=pellet+gun+deaths

[RC]

17. They are still "guns".

They just use compressed air or even a spring to propel the pellet.
How are they not guns, when they fulfill all the basic requirements, from looks to shooting damage causing projectiles.

[logosoco]

9. The incidents that are little ones finding a loaded weapon...

what kind of regulations or safeguards can stop that?

Cleaning supplies and medicines have child proof caps. What can be done when people do not understand the concept of securing a loaded gun?

[Duckhunter935]

10. unfortunately

you will never be able to stop this 100 percent. There are millions of handguns out there alone and even with the best of laws and training there will be irresponsible people out there. Every year children still die from prescription and non-prescription drugs and cleaning supplies even with those items.

[Hoyt]

12. Improving "effectiveness" does not have to be 100%, 10% would be an improvement.

[Robb]

13. Good point. How many lives are we willing to sacrifice

...at the altar of "we can't stop all the deaths, so we must do nothing"?

[Duckhunter935]

18. well how many

do we allow to die in pool accidents, drug or cleaning chemical accidents, backing over children in driveways?

I do not know, all we can pass on safety information and give people the tools needed to help prevent this. I know with my handgun I also received a trigger lock and if I do not use it it is on me and me alone.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/poisoning/poisoning-factsheet.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsSafeSwimmingPool/

https://www.google.com/search?q=pool+accident+deaths&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&client=firefox-a

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=0ZY&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=backed+over+child&oq=backed+over+child&gs_l=serp.12..0j0i5i30j0i8i10i30j0i8i30l4.36563.40991.0.45115.17.17.0.0.0.0.175.1485.15j2.17.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.X5woQGlY1ag

[kag]

27. I am so sick of this argument.

"People die in cars, pools, roller coasters. People are killed with baseball bats, chemicals, knives. Why don't we ban those!?"

This is such a stupid argument, and it is almost always one of the first brought up by the anti-gun-regulation crowd.

Cars, pools, baseball bats, etc. all have uses--practical uses--other than killing people. The primary, indeed the ONLY, use for a gun is to kill. And in the case of handguns the only use is to kill PEOPLE. If every handgun on the planet suddenly disappeared no one would suffer for it. No one would be deprived of a particular recreation, a useful cleaning substance or transportation mode.

Also, most of these other "killers" are regulated by the government. You must be of a certain age to drive a car, and you must pass a test and obtain a license and registration for the car. The government (usually local town or county administrators) mandates that home swimming pools be surrounded by a high fence. Cleaning substances must have child-resistant caps. Even roller coasters have to be inspected and approved by a government agency.

It is easier in most places in the U.S. to buy a gun than it is to buy marijuana. You could walk into a store or a gun show, and depending on whether the seller is "private" (or honest), you may or may not have to wait three days and submit to a background check. But assuming you're not a convicted felon, you could walk out with enough guns and ammunition to go shoot up a mall or a department store or a kindergarten classroom.

And what else would you use them for? Hunting? A handgun with a 30-round clip? Strains logic. Target practice? Practice for what? What exactly are you planning to need that target practice FOR? Protection? From what? Well, other people with guns, of course. But your little arsenal is far more likely to cause the tragic death of one of your family members or friends or even YOUR SELF, than to be used is self-defense.

I didn't really mean to rant for this long. Sorry. But every time I hear or read this "Why not ban cars?" nonsense, I just want to scream!

[glowing]

28. This is a false equivalency that just doesn't hold up!

There are regulations in place for pool safety, at least in FL, any pool must have a gate around it to keep children from getting to the pool. Of course, the children inside of a home that have figured out how to open up Grandma's sliding door to the patio pool are still the occasion as to why we still have the accidental drownings... But there are rules and regulations to try and curb the effect of accidental drownings.

As to chemical hazards, most parents who have small children have safety locks on cupboards which contain unsafe chemical products. And now there are product lines for house cleaning that are 100% natural and would not cause death, if a parent chooses to use these as a cleaning product. Most parents do install safety locks on there cupboards and even fridge doors to keep a child from getting into and possibly stuck inside of a fridge.

As for the medicine, the bottles have child proof tops and are normally kept in a "safe" cupboard with a "child lock". Of course, the kids who take their parents or grandparents medicine for a "high" and then OD, are doing these things of their own free will and desire for a "high". Also, many states have rules and regulations and criminal penalties for parents or families where a small child may have gained access to a deadly chemical or medicine. But education and safety precautions about children, curiosity, parenting, and safety measures are normal.

As for "backing up over children", the newer models of vehicles are installing cameras and/ or beeping devices that would help the driver to know there is something close behind their vehicle. Also, because of blind spots and mini-van/ SUV blind spots, the recommended approach to backing up is to do a full sweep around the car/ take in the perspective of all who are or may be an issue... And then to honk a horn as the driver is backing up if there are children around.

If someone wants to own a hand gun for protection in their home, they ought to have to go thru mandatory owner use. They should be required to go through gun safety classes. They should have to pass a required safety test, much like a driver would for a license to drive. They should also have to be able to present their "gun license" in order to even purchase any weapon. AND they should have to buy "gun insurance" to own that gun. In the case of an accidental shooting or some other gun issue, there should be a monetary compensation for the loss of one's child or medical bills that could pile up from a shooting. I'm almost certain that if gun insurance was mandatory in owning a weapon, the insurance company would require a gun safe that may only be accessed by a "hand imprint" of those in the home that have a gun license.

When owning a weapon is a serious "cost", then perhaps they may be more respected for the deadly killing apparatus that they are designed for. And if a hunting rifle is the "cheapest" insurance one could get for actual food hunting, there would be less hand guns and assault type weapons purchased. And the hunting rifle would have to go hand in hand with hunting safety and gun handling safety. Also, in order to keep one's license, a gun owner would have to have his/ her weapons checked on in the home (where the weapon and bullets are kept) as well as a safety check on the weapon (to make sure it had not been modified) and that the gun was still safe to shoot. And a 5 yr renewal/ refresher coarse on safety and any newer tips or safety procedures that had been included or modified. And any sale of a weapon was transferred as a title like we do when registering and transferring titles on a car.

When owning a gun is a pain in the ass type of item, less will be purchased. The main people owning guns would be rural folks who use a hunting rifle to fill their freezer with meat and those who really want to own a weapon. If all guns have a serial number and are tracked they every sale to another gun owner with a license, it would help to take the "illegal" guns out of circulation over time. And the best way to get rid of the guns from the community have been buy back incentives with no questions asked. Eventually, only legal, law abiding people with a license would be able to have a weapon. If a person could not pass their test and the mental fitness part of the test, then they would not get a license and could not buy a legal gun. And it would be on the licensed gun owners part to be totally responsible for any accidents or other people in the home being kept from using the gun who were unlicensed.

[Deep13]

14. Awareness of the problem as part of the licensing procedure. nt

[Recursion]

15. Mandating safe storage could do some good

Though enforcement would be spotty at best.

Trigger locks can also help, though the gun owner has to keep them on whenever they aren't shooting. This seems more like a cultural change that needs to happen than a legal one.

[SQUEE]

30. I lived a few years in El Paso Texas.

Child deaths in unattended cars in the heat became a large problem, the DA started aggressively charging the negligent parents/ adults involved, and there was a sharp reduction in cases. I see the same here. hard to enforce on the one hand but a minimum 15 year sentence when you leave a child access to a firearm that results in injury or death, people will begin to take notice.

[Recursion]

31. Yeah, that's a good point

Unfortunately it means punishing rather than preventing, but this punishment might prevent the next potential death.

[world wide wally]

19. As the NRA would say.. It's a good thing we're all so well protected with our handguns

[BainsBane]

20. You're awesome Robb!

Keep up the good fight.

[Chorophyll]

21. Jesus Christ on a cracker.

The sheer number of children under the age of 6 who accidentally shot themselves this week is enough for me to support a universal ban on firearms. And if you don't like that, stop goddamn having children.

People are just stupid as fuck.

[riverbendviewgal]

22. The kids need to get their own bushmaster

$350 off

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/us/selling-a-new-generation-on-guns.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130127&_r=1&pagewanted=all&

[LiberalLovinLug]

23. News priorities

If every news cast would begin its broadcast with these incidents listed on air at least once a week (much like Walter Cronkite did with Vietnam war casualties) we might see more broad based push for gun control measures.

[bluedigger]

24. If those kids had more guns we could have saved them all.

[theKed]

25. I approve of keeping this list

every week, and kicked up as much as possible.
People need to keep the consequences of a heavily-armed society firmly in the forefront of their minds until things change.

Do you post this to the Gungeon, too?

[Robb]

26. It would be mere flamebait there.

[Electric Monk]

29. They call threads like this "google bombing" because they'd rather not know. nt

[Robb]

32. One last kick.

Here's to a better week.

[intheflow]

33. Thanks for including the links this week.

I see it's shut up a lot of the doubting Thomases that were so pervasive in your last gun tally thread.