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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMore news about murderous kittykats: They kill billions- every year.
Cats that live in the wild or indoor pets allowed to roam outdoors kill from 1.4 billion to as many as 3.7 billion birds in the continental U.S. each year, says a new study that escalates a decades-old debate over the feline threat to native animals.
The estimates are much higher than the hundreds of millions of annual bird deaths previously attributed to cats. The study also says that from 6.9 billion to as many as 20.7 billion mammals mainly mice, shrews, rabbits and voles are killed by cats annually in the Lower 48. The report is scheduled to be published Tuesday in Nature Communications.
"I was stunned," said ornithologist Peter Marra of the Smithsonian's Conservation Biology Institute. He and Smithsonian colleague Scott Loss, and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologist Tom Will conducted the study.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/29/cats-wild-birds-mammals-study/1873871/
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)We're not talking endangered species here!
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)justabob
(3,069 posts)in my neighborhood, it is mostly disgusting grackles and city pigeons, lots and lots of them. I would love for the neighborhood cats to have at 'em. There are way too many, especially the grackles. OTOH I like the robins, cardinals, mockingbirds, jays and the wood peckers and wouldn't like for the kitties to have them for dinner. I wonder if cats can be trained to specialize what bird breed they go after.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)if you cannot bring yourself to keep a kitty inside, if you get any in the future, train them to be indoor cats and they will be healthier and better for your neighborhood.
justabob
(3,069 posts)and they are all inside cats. I'd still like something done about the effing grackles that swarm my city.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)me always and hates the outdoors. ... is a 7x24 companion ... he just loves the indoors and being pampered. What a deal he has!
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Bake
(21,977 posts)is blood-curdling. Our neighbor has a cat which he lets out periodically and out of nowhere you'll hear this screaming sound. And then you'll find a pile of feathers/debris.
Bake
fishiefish
(23 posts)A cat doesn't differentiate between endangered and non endangered species and there are certainly endangered species habitats within the roaming area of domestic cats.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)We don't need to allow our pets to contribute to the problem.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Cats are natural hunters. They are not designed to be locked in a house. De-clawing and feeding them from a can does not change their nature.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)ಠ_ಠ
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)You know, like humans are designed to walk upright, cars are designed to roll on wheels. Cats are designed, or have designed themselves through their particular evolution to live by hunting, while also making a non-aggression pact with humans.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)[font size="5"]ಠ_ಠ[/font]
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)jeez. what's so complicated about this.
cows are natural herbivores, do they not affect the environment as well?
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Are you saying it's unnatural to keep them as house pets? I think it is natural for people to keep pets, but they come with responsibilities.
Regarding cows, of course they affect the environment, especially when they come into contact with humans.
I am an animal lover and spend a fair amount of time watching birds, which I'm surrounded with. I am also a proponent of wind energy and frustrated by those who want to limit wind farms because of bird migrations. Not that it shouldn't be a major concern, but not something which is insurmountable.
Upton
(9,709 posts)there's nothing "natural" about them..
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)alittlelark
(18,886 posts)Rats, moles, mice, and the occasional "what the hell was that thing".
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)when I was besieged with rats. A field was being cleared behind me and drove all the rats into my house. I had to call a pest control service, which cost me $350 to kill 18 rats. It would have been cheaper to get a cat, but my Chihuahua hates cats.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)I hate gophers. When the cats drag a live one up, I hang it in my resident crow's favorite oak and let the crow kill it
union_maid
(3,502 posts)He has trouble just finding his food in the kitchen. I did have one cat who got a mouse that was in the house. Luckily we don't get many mice because most of the cats I've had over the years wouldn't have bothered.
I don't know what's stunning about it, however. Cats are preditors and obligate carnivores besides. Nature is a bitch.
zazen
(2,978 posts)I do love my backyard birds and get the point, but where are the mousers when you need them? We currently have a mouse problem, and I do not personally want to kill them. Maybe I could rent a pet owl or something.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Anyone who tries to stop the true nature of cats is a fool wasting their time. If my cats did not kill mice I would toss them out on their lazy asses.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)is that you will not have rodents inside the house.
I'm speaking from experience.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Kind of seems to defeat the purpose...
narnian60
(3,510 posts)snatch a piece of dog food out of the bowl and scurry away under the stove. Oh, well, live & let live.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Fickle beasts.
fizzgig
(24,146 posts)i keep my cats indoors because we live at a major intersection and i don't want them flattened. they have been able to go outside at other places i've lived. growing up, and to this day, the cats at home have had been able to come and go as they pleased. they're more about the rodents than they are the birds.
pansypoo53219
(20,908 posts)the curent 2 would have been bird killers, now they must be content w/ bugs. basil is good. watched him get an earwhig + ate the corpse. but i had to help him nab the BIG centipede. + he has gotten 2 mice.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)They don't seem to have a natural predator in this country other than hawks, yet I see plenty of hawks and they don't appear to go after the millions of grackles.
I recall reading that originally this bird was brought over to the US to help immigrating Europeans feel more at home, but I don't know how true that is.
I do know that they are one of the biggest threats to native songbirds, as they take over nests, pushing eggs out in favor of their own. I believe this is called "nest predation".
justabob
(3,069 posts)Grackles are awful. They are EVERYWHERE and multiplying steadily. I dislike them very much.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Great Minds Think Alike
What I hate about them the most is seeing less and less of the birds I do like, especially Mockingbirds. Still plenty of sparrows around, but it's rare to see a Mockingbird any more. People are going to forget what it's like to be dive-bombed by one! Not to mention hearing their wonderful songs
justabob
(3,069 posts)I still have a ton of mockingbirds in my neighborhood, but I don't think I have ever been dive bombed except by blue jays. Friends of mine have had issues with mockingbird noise, but again, I have not had the pleasure. I just think they're pretty. My favorite neighbor birds are the woodpeckers. We don't have very many, and they moved down the street, so the noise from them is minimal. I wouldn't be sad if I NEVER saw another grackle, no matter how pretty their feathers are.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I live next to a high-tension power right-of-way and railroad tracks, so I see some hawks out there and sometimes an owl. However, I also see the literal clouds of grackle flocks in the evenings, and roosting on the traffic lights in the mornings. The sparrows have taken over the two young oaks we have in our apartment courtyard, but they quiet down at night. They're only truly noisy in the evenings, and that doesn't last.
The one saving grace about grackles is that they are smart enough to get off the road when a car is coming. Doves on the other hand... (No, I haven't run over any, but have come to complete stops while waiting for them to just see my car and get out of the way.)
justabob
(3,069 posts)I really don't like them, or their dumb friends, the pigeons. Doves are ok, but there are starting to be a lot of them in the city too. They started turning up more when the drought was worse, I think. I wish we could swap out the sickly, ugly and dumb city pigeons for the prettier and much less annoying doves. I think the pigeons contributed to the west nile outbreak we had too, IIRC. Oh well, life in the big city. Good to chat with you again.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)though I figure the inattentive drivers will take up my slack
Nice chatting with you too. Now back to work!
justabob
(3,069 posts)I do not plan on going out into my yard to actually act on it, but I do feel very hostile to that particular variety of bird.
Have a good rest of the day!
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)It's interesting that San Antonio imports predators to protect their tourism business. Of course, all that does is chase the grackles out of that area of town, and does little to control the population.
I know I've read that the grackle population is shrinking, yet it's still big enough to have a huge impact on the rest of the native birds. There needs to be a balance, or all we'll have left are grackles, pigeons, and sparrows.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)Reminds me of one of the funniest posts on alt.bizzare, which went along the lines of, "Cat design makes no sense. Efficient ruthless killing machines and yeah, let's make them cute as hell."
Melinda
(5,465 posts)He was a feral rescue kitten neutered at 11 weeks, and he has fought all his life to be outdoors. He has to roam and hunt at night, regardless the weather, and he crosses a fairly busy street all the time. He looks both ways (usually) before he crosses. There is no keeping him in, but the other two who came to our family from the same circumstances won't go outside, period.
And he always comes home in the early morning (sometimes with treats) to claim his queen sized bed and sleep all damned day.
He likes both rodents and birds equally. He's a happy cat. But after reading this article... me? Not so much.
REP
(21,691 posts)They never go outside, ever (not safe to let them go out where I live + lack of interest on their part). I can't vouch for rodent deaths - I've lived in apartments forever, and I've never, ever had a rodent problem. Ever. I know they've killed many, many bugs.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)That said, a cat's natural prey is mice...that's what they prefer, and that's how they've evolved to best kill...look at the size of the jaw and the spacing of the teeth.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Though I'm sure it happens.
They are absolutely necessary at keeping rodents in check.
Crusades against cats doing, what cats do, have not good outcomes.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Bird lovers hate cats and are on a vendetta, IMHO
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)It's their job.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)(From the SNL Skit, "Toonces the Driving Cat"
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)sadbear
(4,340 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)2 lb, 13 oz of Gourmet Fondue Veggie Cheese Burger Flavor Cat Kibble is only $22.95.
http://www.evolutiondietstore.com/addtocart.sc?productId=78&quantity=1
Seems pricey, but when you go for GMO-free, organic, heavy metal free nutrition fortified with a bunch of biochemicals that are in animal but not plants, it is expensive.
sadbear
(4,340 posts)I doubt whether a cat will actually eat it.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)Cats cannot help being what they are, and what they are is obligate carnivores; that is, an animal that by its genetic makeup must eat the tissue of other animals in order to survive. Feeding such an animal a meat-free diet is needlessly cruel and the height of human hubris.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)For example, cats cannot synthesize taurine in their pancreas, as do humans. Therefore, they have to get it from meats, which contain about 0.1% taurine (while vegetable products contain negligible taurine). Taurine can be synthesized and does not have to be extracted from animals. The synthesized taurine can be added to the cat food.
There are several other biochemicals that occur in animals, do not occur in plants, and are essential for cat health that must be added to a vegan cat diet.
REP
(21,691 posts)And forcing an obligate carnivore to become "vegan" to please human ideals is one of the dumbest things ever. The idea behind veganism - which I admire, incidentally - is to reduce animal suffering, especially suffering for human's sake. Forcing a cat to eat food that is detrimental to his/her health makes a mockery of this ideal. It would be better for a vegan who cannot tolerate feeding a cat the diet a cat is built for to not have cats as companions.
I have the feeling we probably agree ... I just feel pretty strongly about not torturing cats with such diets
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...it would be impossible for backyard gardeners to grow any kind of food crops, except maybe garlic.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...we would be overrun by the pests in very short order. Same with birds. And both carry diseases that can spread to humans.
Additionally, what we're seeing is the natural predatory actions of animals in the wild, even though some of those cats may rest at somebody's home during the day.
So, what's really behind these so-called "studies" about cats?
Sylvarose
(210 posts)....when people start this whole "bad kitty" thing I can't help but think back on Europe's persecution of cats during the middle ages and the Black Plague. Took them along time to figure out that they were killing one of their best defenses at the time against the disease.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Cats,-People,-and-the-Black-Plague---Those-Who-Kept-Cats-Survived&id=161249
I keep my cats indoors..because it helps them live longer and my neighborhood has enough cats roaming it. However, I do recognize that a) cats play in important role pest control especially in a densely populated area and b) mankind poses a greater threat to songbirds as we destroy their habitats and import invasive species (i.e. Grackles).
IMHO
SR
Auggie
(31,068 posts)I don't like it when she brings them inside though.
aquart
(69,014 posts)That's why they have frequent offspring that mature rapidly.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Enough with the cats-kill-birds. Yeah, we know.
Our cats have always been indoors only.
People need to spay and neuter and stop getting animals from fucking breeders.
stuntcat
(12,022 posts)With all the horror humans do to all the animals I will not single out an animal species to hate on.
Cats should not be outdoors. ALL cats and dogs should be spayed and neutered and ALL breeding stopped. Not that they should go extinct, they won't anyway, it's just completely out of control.
cabot
(724 posts)They do kill exotic birds or endangered birds. If we can't let dogs run loose, then cats shouldn't be allowed to roam around either.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Upton
(9,709 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Upton
(9,709 posts)and anyway..coyotes got to eat too..
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)and the coyotes follow.
A better option is TNR to reduce and manage the feral population.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)I have managed a TNR colony for over ten years. The cats in the colony are well taken care of and fed regularly each day. They are all spayed or neutered, vaccinated and monitored for any veterinary needs.
The colony is located in a natural area where there are plenty of birds. Not once have I seen one of the cats going after a bird. The cats aren't hungry, so they are not interested in hunting.
Studies like this periodically surface to try to attempt to diminish the success rate of TNR colonies. I simply disagree with their findings.
TNR works.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)The neighbor's cat roams all over the place against the law (local law here specifies no cat allowed outside of your yard, but she's a repig, so that's why she ignores the law)
At least she put a bell on her cat.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Crepuscular
(1,057 posts)That Kitty made a wise decision or that hawk would have likely had a main course of house cat to go with his squirrel appetizer.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)JitterbugPerfume
(18,183 posts)I decided a while back to keep my cats indoors.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Our family had a cat, that had three legs due to being caught in a trap. It didn't seem to slow her down at all. She still brought us presents. Birds, bunnies, and small rodents, she liked putting them headless in my mother's shoes. Sometimes she would just leave them on the front walk, I guess those were for everyone else.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)No euthanasia, just spay them all and let them die out, and no more importing.
My dog is a killer, but dogs are not allowed to wander around. She kills small rodents in places they don't belong, like my garage. Unlike cats, she is not amused by killing, just a quick kill, no torture or play.