Stepping in it: rape culture. This is a society in which "don't be that guy" is controversial.

[Recursion]

I'm not going to get all Meta and call out a PPR'd user, but this really bothered me.

Fellow hetero men: can we all agree that there is a Bro Code, and that rule #1, above all else, is "don't be that guy"?

Specifically, don't be that guy who pressures the drunk girl into having sex, or posts the naked pictures she sent you on a revenge porn site, or coerces someone into having sex with you? Don't be that guy who creeps women out by invading personal space or touching her without an invitation? Don't be that guy who hangs out in the stairwell waiting for her to leave the party "just to talk"? Is this really a question? Are the very basic rules of manhood I learned hopelessly outdated?

Can we agree that the most important part of being manly is not doing any of those things? Is this actually controversial? Does any actual man need a definition of who "that guy" is?

These questions were clearly rhetorical. Please don't bother if you have a "clarification" for me.

[Nye Bevan]

1. Everyone did agree, except for the shit-stirring troll,

who is now sleeping with the fishie-fishes.

[Recursion]

2. I think it bothered me because we finally had an anti-rape post everybody was down with

and then the shit was stirred.

This is why we can't have nice things. I'm probably taking this too seriously. It just pisses me off.

[Nye Bevan]

4. I'm thinking now I shouldn't have even risen to the bait and engaged him.

But it's hard not to respond.

[Nay]

20. Oh, did that ba***rd get tombstoned? Excellent. I had to leave that thread because it simply

depressed me.

[Lionessa]

3. It should be, but the reality is not supportive and those "basic rules" where never

in any way universally taught for American males. I'm old and most men didn't have those values instilled in them back then. You give a truly false impression of the virtuousness of men of the past.

[Recursion]

5. I grant it was mythology, but it's not hard to live up to. This is a call-out to other men

I'm sick of this shit. I have a sister and a mother, and other guys do too. We all know who that guy is, and we all know not to be him. This is not optional or negotiable.

[Lionessa]

9. Seems to me honesty about life is necessary for a call out, not mythology as you see it.

IMO, you've shot your own call out in the foot by using that bs.

[seabeyond]

15. actually, in my world, i know that man you describe.

It is the only men I know. In my world that man isn't so unusual.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. I agree with you and maybe for too many, it's mythology, but

As you say, it is WORTH living up to. Men can start by listening to women.

Some do but again, there are many who don't.

It would be a good step for people to start demanding decent behavior. Speak up, shame men who treat women like crap. Start jamming the culture....

The more often women and other men demand appropriate respect towards women, the more we'll see social change ripple outward.

[NYC_SKP]

6. Also, don't be "that guy" who is in a position of authority and who hugs and backrubs his admin asst

And don't be that admin assistant who lets it happen and even openly encourages it.

In a public education office, especially.

ewwwwwww.

[Recursion]

7. Yes, Jesus. That too. I hate that.

Seriously, I'm sick of fellow straight guys pretending it's some kind of hard labor not to be That Guy.

[Lionessa]

11. Aren't you blaming the victim in that "And...."?

I've been that person and was actually in the position of Controller and allowed it. In Texas in 1978-83 it was the correct response to not only allow but to respond cheerfully and as though you'd been complimented and cared about.... actually I did feel complimented and cared about, a few minutes of a shoulder rub after a 16 hour day with subcontractors and vendors and demands and questions and complaints.... and from my boss who never behaved in any other way that might be misconstrued felt a lot like a thank you for your hard work today. Of course back then I was paid what I was worth, and had full bennies, private corner office on the 19th floor and all. Different world I guess.

[NYC_SKP]

13. No. I believe it's situational. Indeed, the admin is as much a victim as anyone.

.
And this is California, and this is a K-12 Public Educational program.... It's downright yucky.

And there are avenues for action for her, and there are mandatory trainings that explicitly explain what is and isn't considered acceptable, unacceptable, and what constitutes the various illegal and/or egregious behaviors.

I'm looking for other work, the director's yuckiness isn't limited to these behaviors, he's also a liar and a bit of a whack job...

[Lionessa]

14. So you're not picking on women in general who don't act as you think they should, just this one

you apparently don't like anyway. I see. And then ultimately, unless one or the other complain, all those rules don't matter. I'm just thinking what if two people were a couple and it showed at work, but wasn't against the rules to be a couple (at least when I was growing up with a teacher mom, many teachers were married to other teachers and taught at the same schools), would that be equally gross?

I don't know I am just not one of those that thinks all touching is always wrong and I know lots of folks, especially teachers get frustrated because of the current strictness that doesn't leave room for things like innocent touching, hugs, and the like. Seems "we" as a society want people to both quit hating and quit caring. Is clapping someone on the back also forbidden these days? Mistaken for a hit? A hug mistaken for a sexual cop-a-feel? And usually not by those involved but by those watching that think someone should be complaining and takes the task on themselves.

But then this is America, we just love our drama queeny-ness.

[dballance]

8. Well Put. Having the Maturity to Have Self-Control and Decency

you suggest should be part of what we used to call "becoming a man." Now it should just really be part of becoming a decent human being as you grow up.

If I had raped someone I'd have had a lot more to fear from my dad than the legal system. No, not that he would have beaten me but it would have been one rough ride living in my family's house for a long, long time.

[RobertEarl]

10. Agreed - Don't be that guy

Also... don't be that guy who wants to join the military, go different places meet different people and kill them.

Men are brought up to be that guy and we've a long way to go before all those guys are nevermore.

[Demo_Chris]

12. Yep, 'that guy' is always a loser

[Bonobo]

16. Yes, we agree 100%. nt

[alittlelark]

18. If anyone had issue w/ the 'don't be that guy' stuff

I assume they will be BANNED from this site.

[caseymoz]

19. Yep. No argument. nt

[redgreenandblue]

21. "...who hangs out in the stairwell waiting for her to leave the party "just to talk"?"

Hmm. This can actually be a nice thing and it depends on the situation whether or not it is creepy IMO. But yeah, agree on the other points.