Our infrastructure is crumbling. There are potholes, dangerous bridges. decaying buildings.

[mfcorey1]

Major investment is needed.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2013/01/29/One-Investment-that-Can-Reduce-Our-Long-Term-Debt.aspx#page1



Suppose we could enhance our long-run growth prospects, reduce our long-term unemployment problem, and reduce our expected future debt at the same time. Would that be a policy worth pursuing?

Infrastructure spending in an economy such as ours, one with high and persistent unemployment and considerable infrastructure needs, has these features. It puts people to work on projects that promote economic growth – economic growth is one of the best ways to reduce the long-run debt burden – and money spent on infrastructure maintenance and repair saves us money in the long-run.
How can spending more now, which increases the deficit, decrease our long-run debt burden? Consider spending on infrastructure maintenance and repair first, and think about a similar situation for households and firms. When a household hits hard times due to unexpected expenses, it’s possible to delay routine maintenance on things such as the car that is needed to get to work each day. The same is true for a business. When times are tough, maintenance on the production line, the trucks needed to deliver goods, and so on can be put off. But it cannot be delayed forever, and the household or business may need to borrow money to pay for the maintenance and repairs even if debt burdens are already relatively high.

Read more at http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2013/01/29/One-Investment-that-Can-Reduce-Our-Long-Term-Debt.aspx#AUxtdrPcPGQZ6C9I.99

[mattclearing]

1. This is where the stimulus should have gone.

I think they said there weren't enough shovel-ready projects, but it really just amounts to mental laziness. Figuring out what to fix is too hard; let's just give it all to the banks.

[Buzz Clik]

12. There were hundreds of such projects. A dozen or so in my town alone.

Any states and communities that let this opportunity slide will now be scrambling for funds.

[lunasun]

25. Same here - signs thanking stimulus even posted in town! I think many locations rejected the money

Same places will reject new taxes so what can be expected?

[Buzz Clik]

26. We had sewer replacements, repavement projects, bridge rejuvenation, etc etc etc

It was great timing.

[lunasun]

29. and jobs. Met a truck driver just talking at coffee when it was all going on and he said it

was great to drive in to the area and see this stimulus money at work and imagined it brought some relief(for a while) on the job situation. He had hope because some other places brought him down when he went through them on long haul.

[mattclearing]

55. Right. I didn't really think that comment through.

In retrospect I think I was conflating the stimulus with the bailouts. It still would have been nice to have spent more on building projects and less on bailing out the banks.

[Egalitarian Thug]

51. That term, "shovel ready" is just a BS catch-phrase they used to lie with.

It made a handy sound-byte, to distract and excuse their negligence.

[Buzz Clik]

60. Nope.

Every project I described in our town had been planned already. They asked for the money, and they went forward.

I hear a TON of rightwingers who bitch about the bailout say just what you're saying. Seems I cannot escape that crap anywhere.

[Egalitarian Thug]

61. You must have a very special brand of Reich-wingers wherever you are.

Out here, the crazies don't want the evil government to do anything. They don't know or don't care that the city is falling apart around them. They don't know or care that crime is rising, that people with advanced degrees and years of experience are working in fast food, landscaping, temporary labor, etc. for minimum wage just trying to survive another week. And they don't know or care that the entirety of our part of that so-called stimulus was sucked up by the rich.

It's especially ironic because this city only exists because of the real stimulus that real Democrats passed 80 years ago to build Boulder (Hoover) Dam and the Boulder highway.

So you see, I have never met a single Reich-winger who was bitching about how inadequate or pork filled the Stimulus package was. Pray tell, where do hear them? Or is it simply that you cannot hear any criticism of the Great and Powerful, yet remarkably helpless, O?

[graham4anything]

2. More taxes. That is what pays for these things.

has nothing to do with stimulus.

NJ had a brand new tunnel with a new train that was 100% paid for
Chris the republican Christie vetoed it, kowtowing to the tea party
then Sandy came and floodded roads and bridges

damn, if we didn't have that new tunnel, hero Christie vetoed.

We indeed need more taxes and more long term bonds.
roads
bridges
naitonwide train system

why can't anyone travel to nashville by train? Because there are no commuter trains going to Nashville.

[GeorgeGist]

8. Too easy ...

http://vimeo.com/16472613

[JHB]

11. Actually, Nashville DOES have a commuter rail. It DOESN'T have long-distance rail

Nashville has the Music City Star, one line that goes to the east, about 50 minutes from the farthest station to the Riverfront.

It's the connection to the wider national network that was lost when Amtrak nixed the Floridian line in 1979.

[graham4anything]

28. wow, I have been to Nashville about 50 times for work and pleasure and know the bus

and I never heard of this, nor seen any commuter train in or around the city.

and I have friends in the Hermitage area, and have bowled and gone to charity events at the Hermitage bowl.

and again, never heard of that.
though this is like though the one line from North NJ that is one track, to city morning, back in evening, ending early.
this is
6 in the morning, 6 at night, 7 on Fridays. with bus connections.

I know from NYC to Nashville is you have to take Amtrak to Chicago, then next morning to Memphis, then its still 4 hours from Memphis so car or bus is needed.

And Union Station is one of the great buildings and it's a hotel now, it's a shame.

[JHB]

34. I've never been to Nashville, was just being my overly-literal self...

...at the use of "commuter rail", those being local and regional affairs to bring people to city centers, and thought "hmm, does Nashville have one?" Turned out they do, though by my NYC-area perspective it's not much (better than nothing, though). From further reading they've apparently been trying to add a light rail/trolley somewhere, but it's been stalled for a number of years.

Since you have some familiarity, it looks like the Riverfront Station is between Metro Riverfront Park and the Shelby Street Pedestrian Bridge.

Looks like there is a station in Hermitage too.
http://www.musiccitystar.org/Middle-TN-RTA-stations.asp

[lunasun]

31. Nixon wanted to end Amtrak and it declined after that attack also

rail industry declined as governments put money into the construction of highways and government-owned airports and the air traffic control system pushing people to cars and plane travel. Now those modes are going to crud in some areas .

Most profit makers from the auto industry or aviation would not want to see Amtrak resurrect.
McCain was one of the biggest anti train cheerleaders back then.

When you go to most other countries and see how it is outside our isolated bubble regarding train travel you see what could have been here. The governments all invest in the railways but not us, we want a self-sufficienct system or shut it down ! Not paying for it
just like the roads now

[graham4anything]

35. I am in awe of the European train system, and England's too. (been on them).

They are amazing in their speed, on time, and comfort.

and I have taken the autotrain about 10 times.
and I never understood why it didn't go all the way up north to NY or at least NJ.
one day I asked
because it is too tall. Don't fit in the tunnels
URGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

build the ***)$&&$&$& tunnel then. It is so convientiant and money saving to have your car when you get to Florida, but it takes 5 hours from NYC to get to Lorton, and then it's great to Orlando, but Miami is another 5 hours away.

and also, the rule about who is first dibbs on the tracks hinders commuter travel
build an extra track

100000 jobs right off nationwide I bet.

[lunasun]

38. Europe I expected but it was Asia that blew me away and all these places

still have an auto and aviation too

[A HERETIC I AM]

40. Ummmmm...Sanford, Fl to downtown Miami is only 257 miles.

Just under 3 hours and 50 minutes at the speed limit.

If it takes you 5 hours to make that drive, I would suggest pushing down a bit harder on the pedal on the right.

I make the drive from Jacksonville to Miami on a regular basis in a Car Hauler and that takes just 5 hours for the 360 miles to the north side of town where many of the dealers we deliver to are located.

But I agree with the rest of your post and your frustration.

I think one large reason we don't have long distance, high speed rail in this country is our love of our cars. We want our car when we get where we're going. If they had an Autotrain type system nationwide, I think it would be a good thing.

I am not sure how much taller (if at all) the Autotrain car carrier railcars are compared to a normal autorack railcar, but I am pretty sure I know which one of the tunnels is the main holdup on the northbound side - the one in Baltimore under the harbor. It has been a problem for the railroads for years because of its low height.

[graham4anything]

42. traffic in some areas makes speed impossible.And cops are everywhere.

Just getting out of the station, to the interstate, then going south, past where the space center is, can take over an hour.
Add to that thuderstorms, and one stop(for either a snack or bathroom)
(the train normally gets in around 6 to 8am, takes about an hour to get your car(some times you are first, sometimes last for the car to come out, they take it out, not the person)
and avoiding the notorious horrible drivers, then the traffic between West Palm/Boca/ to the beach area, you are not going 65 miles per hour.

again, the cops are everywhere.

[A HERETIC I AM]

46. Hmmmm....

Well, I beg to differ. I've been doing long distance driving for a very a long time. A very long time indeed. You can figure, as an average on the interstate system in the US, that 200 miles will take you 3 hours. That's an average of a tic under 67 MPH. Since the vast majority of interstate highway is posted at 70 these days, and excluding accidents and rush hour density, you can easily average 67 MPH nationwide.

I'm sure you are speaking from your own experience, but that doesn't mean it is the norm. I'll grant you that traffic density between WPB and Boca is higher than further north on I95, but after 10:00 AM and before 3:00 it has been no problem for me to do AT LEAST the speed limit down that stretch. And by "at least" I mean staying with the flow, keeping in mind that as I drive an 18 wheeler, I am restricted to the right hand lanes of that section of the interstate.

As far as the cops being everywhere, Florida Highway Patrol doesn't even give you a second look unless you are going faster than about 7 - 10% above the speed limit. I run down 95 with the cruise set at 71 and, as I said, make it from Jax to Miami Gardens in 5 hours, and that includes the current long stretches of construction where the speed limit is 60 and one or two pee breaks(!).

Of course, if you are driving from Sanford to a spot in Miami that is way south in Miami/Dade county, then sure. Every bit of 5 hours.

[Chathamization]

3. We should get

our local governments to raise taxes to the point where people are paying what they did under Clinton (when Federal and State are added), then take that money and put it towards more infrastructure.

[hobbit709]

6. Most local governments run on property taxes

That affects lower income property owners disproportionally.

[Chathamization]

14. No reason not to give

local income taxes a progressive bump up, and then use that money for infrastructure and social programs. That's actually something we've been pushing for here (difficult, as you can imagine).

[hobbit709]

15. A progressive income tax or ANY income tax is anathema to TPTB in TX.

they would much rather stick the people with regressive taxes like sales and property.

[Chathamization]

16. Naturally

If I was in Texas I'd be spending most of my time just trying to get solid Democratic infrastructure in place. But in blue parts of the country we should be pushing for progressive taxes, infrastructure spending, single-payer healthcare, etc.

[RC]

23. Property taxes is all many local governments have left after bu$h jr, stopped the flow of money back

to the states. Except for schools, many places did not have property taxes till then.

[graham4anything]

36. I miss Jim Florio. ..Repub. Christie Whitman (from the Reagan era), she lowered taxes and bragged

but property taxes went up 25% or more

when Democratic man of the people Jim Florio was gov. he was crucified because of taxes.
I miss Jim Florio.

[Democracyinkind]

4. Generally I'd agree, but the differences are staggering

I remember seeing some parts of the country that felt positively thrid-worldish, and yet, other parts (that I would never have expected) seem to have no problems at all with upkeep. But agreed, there's much to be worried about here, especially all things electric. It took some time living here before I realized that power-outtages were not something that everyone just expects and accepts.

[DaveJ]

20. My wife keeps wanting a wood burning stove

She thinks we'll need it when the power goes and, and my response is, if the power went out for any substantial amount of time, it would be like an apocalypse. People would be fleeing the area, the army would be distributing rations, we'd be on national news. She lived in the woods in Washington state for awhile and I guess they happen there occasionally.

[hobbit709]

5. TX highways used the be among the best in the country.

not any more.

[Dustlawyer]

21. Boy, that's for sure!

[datasuspect]

44. when i lived there

(most of my life)

that was a bragging point.

dang, is it really that bad?

[hobbit709]

45. worse

All those roadside rest stops are gone, the paving is much rougher, and a lot of the state roads are in sad shape.

[NoPasaran]

58. All the roadside rest stops are not gone

Yes, a bunch of the old ones have been closed and demolished, but newer, fancier ones are also being built.

[hobbit709]

59. But they're fewer and farther between.

[uponit7771]

56. +1!

[coldbeer]

7. Remember

We Putter Around

Neither do I. It was before my time.

Must have been for people who did not want to work.

Except my father. He had a family to feed. Oh yeah,
and my two grandfathers, but that was during
the Depression, you know.

[GeorgeGist]

9. Between global warming and this ...

there's a boatload of wages to be earned.

[deutsey]

10. Oh, you must be one of those who live in the

reality-based community.

Don't you realize there are countless TV channels, Internet sites, virtual reality games, and political shadow plays out there designed to keep us happy, entertained consumers distracted from all this unpleasant reality of which you speak?

[JHB]

13. People complain about "paying people to dig holes and fill them back in"...

...as useless make-do work, but they never mention digging a hole around an old pipe, replacing it, and then filling the hole back in. That is useful work, and it has plenty of company in other infrastructure projects.

[LWolf]

17. Yes.

It has been for a LONG time.

Why are Democrats nominating and electing people who focus on neoliberal agendas and endless war, who allow "compromise" on domestic programs, instead of people who will push hard and refocus our resources on building that infrastructure and employing Americans?

Republican stinginess and support for corporate empire is one thing. Why has the Democratic Party allowed itself to be ruled by neoliberals?

[canoeist52]

18. But...but...the depression of 2008 is over!

So long as the stock market is soaring, it doesn't matter if we can't flush the toilet!

[green for victory]

19. Here's where the money went

http://costofwar.com

Stolen right in front of everyone's faces. We don't need more taxes- what the hell are they doing with them now? Buying more drones? Installing more cameras?

Money and Liberties, gone and no one held accountable.

What does a trillion dollars look like?



Notice those pallets are double stacked.
...and remember those are $100 bills.

So the next time you hear someone toss around the phrase "trillion dollars"... that's what they're talking about.

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

[Buzz Clik]

27. Dude! Just think if those were pennies!!!!!111one

[unhappycamper]

22. Here's around $65 billion dollars of low hanging fruit:

The $16~$40 billion dollar USS Gerald R Ford




The $5+ billion dollar Zumwalt-class destroyer (we're building three of them)


If you're looking for more 'savings'. I'd offer up $5~$7 billion dollar Virgina-class submarines (we're building 2 a year), $100+ million dollar MV-22 Ospreys, and the pork-fest that is the $243 million dollar F-35.

Want more 'savings'? Get out of Afghanistan (at least $2 billion a week) and rethink congress' earmarks on defense spending.

[RKP5637]

33. Put a lid on the MIC and this country would be far better off than $$$$$ for the

killing/maiming MIC profit machine.

[AngryAmish]

24. The street of Chicago are shit

Can't wait to leave.

[datasuspect]

47. PURE shit

but i have to wonder if it has to do more with "Chicago Jagoff" syndrome more than anything else.

i've driven around mchenry county, boone county, dekalb county and it seems like the road crews are able to make the construction zones a little less jarring with the addition of a strip of asphalt between roadbed and metal plate, or when the grade changes, they smooth it out.

in chicago, it seems like they leave sharp edges everywhere on purpose.

[NinetySix]

30. I'm sure the infrastructure will be just fine.

[RKP5637]

37. Title of pic: "Republican Utopia" n/t

[NinetySix]

39. Subtitle: Idiocracy

That's the name of the film this pic is from. If you haven't seen it, it's about what the United States would look like after 500 years of prolific breeding by ignorant morons -- priceless social satire!

I love in this pic how the buildings, which have partially collapsed, are lashed together with ropes for structural support! Maybe we could jury-rig our crumbling infrastructure in the same way, you know, to save money for top-marginal tax breaks....

[RKP5637]

41. Yep, it's like looking into a crystal ball as to where we're headed if we maintain the same course.

[datasuspect]

48. Idiocracy was a documentary

Uhhhhhhmerica is NOW!

[NinetySix]

50. It's funny how, during the '90s, Mike Judge

was accused of being part of the "dumbing down of America" with his show Beavis and Butthead. Judge portrays ignorance and idiocy in a very intimate way, putting you close to protagonists who are idiots, but the satirical element of his work is always critical of the ignorance that plagues the protagonist while never condemning the person, only that easily remedied quality of ignorance.

Another bit of work that I like because it operates along the same lines as Mike Judge is the Canadian show The Trailer Park Boys.

[Egalitarian Thug]

54. Today Beavis and Butthead are both managers of a local business and have popped out

3 or 4 kids apiece.

[RKP5637]

32. The US only responds to major crises, and then it's even questionable if anything gets done. We have

become a lackluster country.

The US of today is all about corporate profit, padding the pockets of politicians and those in the revolving door between congress, lobbying and corporations. The country takes a back seat, we the people take a back seat ... the future of this country takes a back seat other than supporting the MIC.

The country remains grid-locked with politicians squabbling, greed, selfishness and in many quarters a population that doesn't give a F, because the future is so dismal for them. Then, enter the theocrats, those wanting a theocratic dystopia ... and the end of times so they can float to heaven. And on top of that the teabagger assholes.

Many of the problems of the US could/can be easily fixed, but I've been waiting years for the US to wake up. I still remain hopeful, but damn, there is so much truly F'ed stuff in the US it's difficult to see the swamp for the alligators.

[jwirr]

43. And do not forget our sewers and water mains.

[FarCenter]

49. We're building a lot of new infrastructure; we just don't rebuild old infrastructure

It's the American way to abandon the old homestead and to move on to somewhere else.

Besides, it costs a lot less to put in new infrastructure in a new location than to deal with all the multiple parties and interests involved in renovating old infrastructure.

[colsohlibgal]

52. An Urgent Situation

We have sacrificed all our infrastructure by throwing billions to our bloated defense spending and to more tax breaks for wealthy people who don't need them.

We need to come up with massive public works projects ala FDR to fix our nation and put people back to work.

Then get back to what Henry Ford came to realize, the truism that a rising tide lifts all boats.

[MFM008]

53. My son and I drove to Renton WA on Sunday

At one point in the journey of about 35 miles the road was so bad we thought we were in an earthquake, to be fair some road repair and freeway revamping is going on but wow.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. An increase in fuel taxes is what's needed

at least in part; Federal fuel taxes are earmarked for highway maintenance, and they go to the states, allocated on the basis of how much they collected from gasoline sales; that tax hasn't increased in 20 years (it's 18.4 cents per gallon, by the way). The problem with that? Americans would rather have collapsing bridges and crumbling roads than pay higher fuel taxes.