Do you allow an author's personal beliefs to

[avebury]

determine if you will read or purchase his/her books.

I have enjoyed a lot of Orson Scott Card's books (he is a good writer). However when I finally got around to look at the author as a person, I found that I didn't agree with some of his positions (opposes intelligent design, suggests that scientific evidence is against global warming, and disapproves of homosexuality and gay marriage). He has every right to his own beliefs. I have decide to exercise my right to not spend my hard earned money on any more of his books. I figure why should my meager dollars help to support someone I disagree with.

[randome]

1. No. Ray Bradbury was a Conservative, too.

Disappointing but it doesn't detract from the beauty of his prose.

[RebelOne]

67. No matter what Bradbury's political leanings were,

I still love all of his books.

[Buzz Clik]

2. No, as long as their politics don't spill into their art.

[XemaSab]

7. With authors, the politics always spill into the art

Look at the similarities and differences between Twilight, Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Narnia, Golden Compass, and other fantasy series for children and young adults.

There are political, social, and religious ideas in all of those books, and one might make the argument that most of those series would not have been written had the author not wanted to put forth a particular worldview.

[Buzz Clik]

9. That's not what I mean.

I mean Ayn Rand style spillover, not subtleties.

[XemaSab]

10. I don't think the politics in any of the examples I mentioned are subtle

[el_bryanto]

14. Perhaps the better way to say it is doesn't spill over into their work in unpleasant ways

In a way it's like "could you have a friend who was a conservative?" Well yeah - if the friend wasn't a jackass or a fantatic, why not? And if he is a jackass or a fanatic, why would you want him as a friend (although people do change unfortunately - sometimes a good guy becomes a fanatic)?

by the same token a book that hectors you or irritates you by being too political is probably not irritating because it's political. It's irritating because it's poorly written and put together.

Bryant

[XemaSab]

31. I can like books where I don't like the politics

For example, Narnia is SO Tory. It's been a few years since I last read it, but the fantasy of the monarchy is a dominant theme in the series, and anyone who challenges the fantasy is dismissed.

At the beginning of "Voyage of the Dawn Treader," Eustace's family are described as vegetarians, non-smokers, and teetotallers. One of the first entries in Eustace's diary includes him telling Caspian that he's a Republican and deriding Caspian for not knowing what that was. By the end of the book, Eustace has changed his old ways and now thinks the monarchy is perfectly fine.

Even though most people who read the series never notice this, it's definitely there.

[el_bryanto]

34. Nods - i love MST3K and Rifftrax

but I've become aware of some political undercurrents lately - not all the time, but often enough that it's there. But I still find it hilarious. Because it's funny.

Dennis Miller on the other hand isn't funny - so his political beliefs grate on me.

Bryant

[Buzz Clik]

15. We are destined to disagree.

[Buzz Clik]

41. The original question is about the author's personal beliefs and values.

I never assume that any book or song or screenplay or whatever is an accurate or even distant representation of the author's personal perspective. A truly gifted writer has the ability to see the world through the eyes of others.

Unless the author tells us otherwise, I read a book without any assumption about the author's personal value system or politics.

[oldhippie]

29. Do you think the philosophies expressed in the Hunger Games ......

... were subtle?

[Buzz Clik]

40. The political commentary is hardly subtle.

Do we have any reason to believe that the commentary reflects the authors personal feelings?

I used to think that every song written by an artist was autobiographical or taken directly from personal experience. Just about every songwriter I have talked to or heard interviewed says that is most definitely not true. Why should authors be any different? An author can write a powerful commentary that in no way reflects their personal views.

[oldhippie]

44. You make a good point ....

Now that you point it out, I don't know anything about Suzanne Collins' politics. I just automatically assumed that her writing would reflect her politics. That has been my experience in six decades of reading, but is not necessarily always true. I guess I need to re-think my assumptions. I learned something this morning. Thanks.

[XemaSab]

46. From Wikipedia:

"In September 2008, Scholastic Press released The Hunger Games, the first book of a trilogy by Collins. The Hunger Games was partly inspired by the Greek myth of Theseus and the Minotaur. Another inspiration was her father's career in the Air Force, which allowed her to have better understanding of poverty, starvation, and the effects of war."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Collins

[oldhippie]

47. Thanks. I read all three books ....

... and watched the first movie, but never really researched the author. It goes to show that I should do that.

[merrily]

3. I agree. If I really want to know what is in a book

by someone with whom I disagree, I will try to find the book in the library or borrow it from a friend.

Anything not to put money in the pocket of the author--or the publisher.

[sadbear]

27. By checking out a book in the library,

you help the library make the decision to buy the author's next book.

[CBGLuthier]

4. Woah, I was about to say, yes, Orson Scott Card

Major disappointment but he is a fucking hard RW loon and I will never read his stuff again. During the Clinton years he revealed himself to be a pig.

He is a gifted short story writer but I will never read another word of his in this lifetime.

[demwing]

5. Shop at local used bookstores

You can read OSC without supporting his politics.

[HappyMe]

6. No, not at all.

As long as I'm enjoying their writing, it's all good. I don't tend to look into their beliefs, political or otherwise.

[jambo101]

8. I just read the book

I dont really get into the artists personal life as it has the potential to turn me off the end product as it did with Ted Nugent,his cd's are now occupying the local landfill.

[quinnox]

11. No

Matter of fact, I just bought one of his most famous science fiction books to read. Same with actors and seeing movies. I don't give a hoot what their political views may be. For example, I think Bruce Willis is a solid republican, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying his movies.

[MNBrewer]

12. There's always the 2nd hand market

for which the author will receive nothing for the book sale. If you still want to read them, that is.

[MindPilot]

13. So that makes it OK to steal?

Seems like that's is the attitude being advocated here.

Some one who produces a product you wish to enjoy has political beliefs with which you do not agree. Therefore you feel justified in seeking out some way to procure that product while punishing them by procuring that product without allowing the producer to be compensated for it.

Not a very liberal. Not very liberal at all.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. I don't see that advocated anywhere

what I got out of it was "I won't be buying any more of his books". Which you know...it's possible to borrow them from a library, if one actually wants to read them.

And a novel is not a "product"; not in the sense of something like toothpaste, or a car. I can read a book, and give it to a charity shop or sell it on Ebay and someone else can have it and read it but my experience of it won't go away.

[MindPilot]

24. Thanks!

I had no idea how a library worked! And that whole concept of printed material...absolutely amazing!

[X_Digger]

18. Wait, ...what? Used books = stealing from authors?!?

What does that make public libraries, 'teh black market'?!?

[MindPilot]

23. not the methodology...the attitude.

I want to see or hear this particular work, but because I don't like the creator's politics, I'm going to figure out a way to do it for free.

[X_Digger]

25. Is choosing to wait to watch a movie on cable (rather than a theater) also 'stealing' from studios?

That's a messed-up consumerist attitude right there.

[onenote]

28. Buying a used book or reading a book from a library isn't stealing

On the other hand, it is not the same as watching a movie on cable rather than a theater since distribution via cable or broadcast or DVD etc are all additional revenue streams for the studios.

[X_Digger]

33. Well, I was approaching the attitude of, "not paying X is stealing"

When in reality, used books or cable movies do represent revenue to authors, just not once per consumption like buying a new book or going to a theater.

Perhaps the analogy was poorly chosen.

[MindPilot]

59. Looks like you are the only one in this thread

even remotely capable of interpreting what you read.

For that I thank you.

[MindPilot]

60. No because you are still paying for it

albeit indirectly. Same at the library.

[X_Digger]

62. Well, I haven't seen anyone advocating stealing..

.. so it's a bit of a moot point, honestly.

The OP, to which you responded, can't be read as endorsing stealing, either.

[MindPilot]

63. Technically, it wasn't the OP, but this one:

"...by someone with whom I disagree, I will try to find the book in the library or borrow it from a friend.

Anything not to put money in the pocket of the author--or the publisher."


It came across--along with a couple others that weren't quite so direct--that if I don't like the author's politics, that makes it ok to do whatever is necessary to enjoy the work without paying for it.

Of course used bookstores and library or borrowing from a friend are not "stealing" but again, I'm talking about the attitude not the method.

It feeds into the whole double standard we have that simply because the politics aren't right, it is OK to call Jan Brewer ugly or make fat jokes about Chris Chistie...behaviour we would never tolerate if they were on our side.

[X_Digger]

64. Ehn, seems untenable..

If you agree that borrowing a book from a friend isn't stealing, then nobody has advocated stealing.



re the double standard- that aggravates me as well, but I don't see this as an extension of that.

[avebury]

66. I do not believe that you need to buy products or

services from people you do not agree with. Why on earth should I buy any further books from an author like Orson Scott Card when, if I really want to read one of his books, there is always the public library. I, like so many others, have limited financial resources and would prefer to be discerning about which books I buy form which authors. I choose to take control about which authors benefit from my purchases. In addition, once a person buys a book it is their choice what they do with that book. Friends swapping books is an aged old tradition. In addition, used book shops are another way to acquire books without any money going to the author. There is a Half Price Books store in town that I have sold a lot of books to. I have also bought a lot of used books on amazon.com and only paid $0.01 plus $3.99 S&H.

I buy a lot of ebooks and audiobooks and I have no problem with putting an author on the do not purchase list. There is a reason that libraries exist.

[CBGLuthier]

48. Garth Brooks probably thinks so

Years ago he asked why he did not get any money from used CD sales.

[X_Digger]

51. Ugh.

That's one thing I worry about with our digital age and even software companies going to "subscription" models (see microsoft's latest strategy for MS office).

Content producers looking to suck every penny out of consumers, and as a consequence, in small steps decreasing the ownership rights of consumers.

[kestrel91316]

45. Getting books from the library is stealing??

That would be a RW talking point from way back, and why the RW seeks to close down and eliminate all public libraries.

Did someone just let their mask slip??

[MindPilot]

61. You of all people...

accusing me of right-wing talking points?

C'mon you're better than that!

[kestrel91316]

71. I'll take it back IF and only IF you state that you DO NOT mean that

getting a book at a library or buying it secondhand constitutes stealing.

Next move is yours.

[MindPilot]

73. Of course--that isn't even logical.

I was talking about an attitude--not an act--explained upthread.

[HiPointDem]

68. buying something 2nd hand isn't stealing.

[ismnotwasm]

17. I won't read Card--ever

But that's no loss to me. Any author of fiction who has extreme RW views does not deserve my money. If they are exceptional authors. Which Card is not, I might go to half price books. There's a couple of sci Fi authors I will no longer read

[WinkyDink]

19. Let's just say I won't be reading any O'Reilly books soon.

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. He either writes well or he doesn't.

Your loss I suppose...

[Puzzledtraveller]

21. No, same goes for actors and actresses, musicians

unless their leanings are specifically advanced by their medium. I don't want to be a person that "excludes" things in that fashion.

[Fumesucker]

22. In Card's case it's complicated because he seems to have changed his entire attitude at some point

Once upon a time Card performed something he called a "Secular Humanist Revival" at SF cons.

http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/2005/06/06/second_secular_humanist_revival_meeting.php

Two decades ago, a saint came before us to preach the American values of a secular nation in the humanist tradition.

His name was Orson Scott Card. He called his preaching the Secular Humanist Revival Meeting. He was a Saint of the Latter Day.

And as time went on the warnings he gave came true. Religion crept into our science classrooms. Children were told how to pray by bureaucrats. Churches were corrupted by government money, corrupting themselves in the process.

Now we are engaged in a great World War, a Crusade between the Christian and the Muslim world, bomb matched by bomb, atrocity by atrocity.

And in that conflict, where are we? For that matter, where is Card? Gone to the other side, I’m afraid, writing plays and books where only those of the One True Faith find redemption, where only the Chosen are heroes, where action is motivated mainly by belief.

Do you hear me? Am I talking loud enough?

That’s how Saint Orson began his preachings, and how he grounded them too. Because he could never talk loudly enough to shake the soul on behalf of what made America great.

You can listen to Card's Secular Humanist Revival as he performed it in 1987 and make your own determination of what you think, this link is to a podcast of it, click on the white down arrow on red circle and his talk actually begins at about 3:10, bear in mind that the intro is *extremely* annoying and fast forward through it if you can.


http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/60671

[HiPointDem]

69. the first osc book i read was 'Capitol,' a forerunner of the worthing chronicles. i was quite

impressed by it (more than by the 'chronicles' which i read later & didn't like half so much).

HS is a collection of short stories, all related to the premise of an advanced civilization that's paved over the world & has a technique whereby people can put themselves in suspended animation, 'living' only part of the time.

elites get to do this more often -- proles have to live out their allotted lifespan unless they have some achievement or connections.

that book was full of things that i took as comments on contemporary civilization, which was part of the reason i liked it so much.

the person who wrote that (in about 1978?) didn't seem to be a conservative.

card is deep mormon elite, though.

[liberal_at_heart]

30. when we start segregating ourselves things only get worse

It is only when people are forced to get to know each other do they find out they are not as bad as they allow themselves to imagine and that reality can start the process of bringing people together. Besides when it comes to things like acting, singing, and writing I prefer to base whether I will read the author on whether they are good at what they do. If the books have a heavy conservative message then I usually don't read them but otherwise I will. If we limit what we are willing to read or listen to sometimes we miss out on some pretty good stuff.

[get the red out]

32. YES

There are other books out there, I don't need to waste my time of those written by people I feel are cheerleaders for things that are harmful to humanity.

[sadbear]

35. I used to like Daniel Silva a lot.

You know, for light, "beach" reading. But he's really become so pro-Israel and anti-Muslim, anti-Arab (which I think he does more to pander to his fans and sell more books), that his stuff is practically unreadable for me. The right-wingers love him, too, like Hugh Hewitt and Glen Beck. Ugh!

[Niceguy1]

36. No, I don't

View every thing in my life through the prism of politics. I really don't care what their personal beliefs are or who they vote for.

[Orrex]

37. Not if the author doesn't let his politics/beliefs fuck up his work

Great example: Michael Crichton.

A passable writer of screenplays who somehow enjoyed great success as a novelist, despite the preposterous simplicity of his plots, characters and writing. Nevertheless, his stuff was enjoyable enough until he went off the rails with his anti-global-warming screeds and his already questionable use of "science" in his fiction became wholly unbearable.

This hard right shift and the corresponding impact upon his writing made me reconsider his earlier works.

Once the artist/writer/singer injects his politics into his art/writing/songs, he has made his views fair game for analysis, and he has opened his work to critique on those grounds.

[obamanut2012]

38. He is a Mormon, and an outspoken homophobe and misogynist

And, yes, I won't read books by someone I know is a wingnut and a bigot.

[MuseRider]

39. Card is different.

His works to stop the LGBT community are loud and outspoken. I could no more read his books now than I could go to see GWB and enjoy myself.

He is disgustingly anti gay, anti marriage equality. He works against equality. He is a very loud and proud homophobe.

Most people are simply conservative and that is their choice. It may bother me but art is art and makes a life worth living. Card is different. I will never read him again. I loved his books but that is over and I will throw them away rather than donate them. His attitude disgusts me and angers me and his use of his religion and his fame to promote hatred makes him bad enough in my book to write off as anyone I would ever read again.

[obamanut2012]

42. Great response

He has been like this for 20 years, but he's become more public as he's made more money.

[csziggy]

43. I had stopped reading Card's books before I knew his beliefs

Because some of the underlying premises and themes behind his plots bothered me. Although his books are well written and characters well crafted, the philosophy he seemed to be pushing ideas I not only did not agree with, but was completely opposed to.

And that was over twenty years ago.

There have been other authors I stopped reading for similar reasons - some mystery writers who always blame the (generally female) victims for the crime, spy authors who seem to want a more restrictive political system than I agree with, and legions of "main stream" fiction that glorify political and social systems that I think shouldn't exist. I've stopped reading distopian and apocalyptic science fiction since so much of it seems to have a right wing slant.

[forestpath]

49. Most of my favorite authors are long dead. Chances are

I would disagree with at least some of them on a whole bunch of stuff.

But current authors whose personal beliefs I disagree with? No, I won't buy a book by anybody I know is a homophobe, fundie, etc.

[Zorra]

50. Yeh, Card is an insufferable bigot. Definitely not a good idea to help finance his promotion of

hatred, violence, and ignorance.

He's like the Glenn Beck of fiction writers.

[riqster]

52. If they suffer from "Drury Disease"

That is a phrase referring to proto-wingnut Allen Drury , who wrote a series of Birch-ish novels back in the day. He got a lot worse as he aged.

I can deal with a subtext or underlying message, so long as the story is good. But Drury would take pages-long diversions from the tale to insert a polemic. Totally blew the sense of momentum.

Not that I agreed with his nutjob political views at any time: but when he blew up a narrative to ensure that we stupid readers got the point he was trying to make, it really cheesed me off.

[Motown_Johnny]

53. Buy used books.

And as far as I am concerned, the Ender's Game series is the only stuff Card has worth reading. Each one being not as good as the previous one. The first one was great, the forth not so much.

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

54. Sometimes...?

If the writing is overtly political I might be swayed in that manner, or if the author is a high-profile RW crazy. In such cases, I might still read the works if they can be found at the library.

I was once a painter of very bad, wall-sized, largely surreal paintings. A neighbor voiced interest, comparing them to the work of Picasso, which was apparently her only frame of reference for such works. Later, she gave me a biography of Picasso for my birthday, explaining how he was a womanizer and a sexist. I shouldn't like him, obviously, based on that. Somehow I can't help it. I still like Picasso's paintings. Steve Ditko was an Objectivist crazy, but I still dig his comics work. I wouldn't want to live in a world arranged according to the apparent political and social views of J.R.R. Tolkien. Dave Sim! Bob Burden! Ack! (My Geek is showing. Ahem.)

Y'gotta draw the line somewhere. People are people. Judging the art by the views or actions of the artist can lead one to a dull and bland existence.

[white_wolf]

55. J.R.R. Tolkien had some very conservative views, but I still love his work.

I swear though his idealization of monarchy did begin to grate on me.

[bigwillq]

56. No (nt)

[Egalitarian Thug]

57. I've found that narrow minded authors like Card write stories that are as simplistic as their

world views. When I was a teenager I really liked Ender's Game, re-read it a decade later and couldn't find what I found so interesting the first time.

Similarly, I read everything Robert Heinlein wrote (The Puppet Masters was the very first book I remember choosing and reading on my own) but once in my 20s I found, with the exception of Strangers, his stuff to be simplistic and predictable.

I read Atlas Shrugged in 6th grade and thought it was good, couldn't even force myself through it college.

I'm uncertain if this gives you any information you were looking for. I guess I'm more interested in the story than the storyteller.

[tabbycat31]

58. depends what kind of book it is

If it is a nonfiction political book, maybe. But it depends on the context of the book. I am a campaign staffer and read a lot of books about how to manage campaigns, etc. One that I recently borrowed on my Kindle was written by a conservative, which I figured about halfway through the book (I figured it out when he completely left out my department). However, as someone who aspires to move beyond her own department to campaign manager, I wanted to hear how the other side runs things and advice for handling other departments, which are not my area of expertise.

If we're talking about Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity's latest Liberals are Evil Conservatives are Awesome book, hell to the no.

For fiction, it would depend on the genre. I would not want to read a romance novel written by a fundie who thinks sex is something only within marriage. A mystery by a conservative (depending on the context) I would probably not have a problem with.

I download a lot of free books for my Kindle on Amazon and I hate how Christian fiction is taking over every genre there.

[petronius]

65. Typically no. But I do find that when I become aware of their opinions

then I'm more likely to notice them if they crop up in the work - and that can diminish my enjoyment.

But I can appreciate books by authors that I disagree with, I just cheer for the villains or consider the triumphant outcome a tragedy...

[Teamster Jeff]

70. I enjoyed most of Dan Simmons books..then I read "Flashback"

It is a right wingers wet dream. The US is bankrupted by "entitlement programs", Israel is destroyed by nukes, Sharia law rules Europe and Mexico invades California. I was blown away.

I guess I would read him again but the reading would be tainted somehow.

[DirkGently]

72. If they allow it to spoil their work. State of Fear ruined Crichton for me.

Not that I was a huge fan to begin with. But when he had an MIT scientist / super-spy character start prattling about how banning DDT "killed more people than Hitler" and "Old growth forests suck," I just couldn't stomach looking at anything with his name on it anymore. It was such a transparently disingenuous piece of rhetorical garbage that I lost any ability to respect anything he might have to say.