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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWTF? ...... Billings, MT, meth lab raid.....except there was no meth lab
from HuffPost:
Billings, Montana police say the 6 am raid they conducted in October 2012 was part of an investigation into a suspected meth lab. But there was no meth lab. And the 12-year-old daughter of Jackie Fasching suffered severe burns after the SWAT team used a broomstick to drop a flash grenade through a window into a bedroom where the girl and her sister were sleeping.
Police Chief Rich St. John told the paper, It was totally unforeseen, totally unplanned and extremely regrettable. We certainly did not want a juvenile, or anyone else for that matter, to get injured.
A photo the girl's mother provided to the Billings Gazette shows red and black burns down her side.
Fasching wasn't satisfied with that explanation. A simple knock on the door and I wouldve let them in," she said. "They said their intel told them there was a meth lab at our house. If they wouldve checked, they wouldve known theres not. Fasching's husband, who suffers from congenital heart disease and liver failure, was in fact attempting to open the door to let the cops in just as they knocked it down. ...................(more)
The complete piece is at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/raid-of-the-day_n_2568491.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)The militarization of this nation's police forces is just one step closer to total fascism.
Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #3)
Post removed
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Maybe they should hire a detective.......
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)we'd plan these elaborate large-scale raids where we'd target 6-10 houses in a smallish community and hit them all at once with 400+ Soldiers and all of their accessories. On more than one occasion I remember getting the neighbor's house or being a block or two off from the intended target.
I really felt like crap for doing it, but we'd kick int he doors, throw stuff all over the place, segregate the the women, children, and men and start to process the people we thought we should detain. Kids and women would be crying and all hell would be breaking loose in the houses. Then, the battalion intelligence guy would say that we got the wrong house, we'd cut the zip-ties off of the wrists of the men and leave as fast as we came and hit the supposed correct house.
Talk about winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqis... I always felt terrible for panic I caused - especially after having kids of my own. I couldn't imagine how I would feel to be woken up in the middle of the night to a group of 20-40 heavily armed Soldiers with Tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles ripping up my house, scaring the crap out of my kids, and arresting me and taking me away from my family.
Actually, I really feel like crap for most of the stuff I did in Iraq. I had a lot of opportunities to display compassion and to soften my presence and I blew most of them. I really could have made a difference at least to the small sector that I worked out of as a Platoon Leader and been a much kinder and gentler person. The sad truth is that I was probably just as scared doing what I was doing in Iraq as the Iraqi people were of me and I was just trying to survive long enough to get home. "Violence of execution" is a major tenant of operations and how the military functions and, as a younger and more naive guy, I executed all too well without enough restraint.
I know that this is starting to turn into a lengthy rant now, but my experiences in Iraq in 2004 really shifted me hard to the left and made me a much kinder and gentler person.
think
(11,641 posts)It must have been horrific to have to be part of those events.
It's good that you were able to reflect upon those experiences and change things about your life for the better.
May the days ahead of you be filled with happiness and joyful events that help put the war far behind you.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)dballance
(5,756 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)
But I try to understand that you were in a situation and situations not of your own making and not within your control. While there were and are some bad apples out there I believe 99.9% of our troops are over there trying to do the best they can with the intel and the tools they have. You were a soldier. You job was to neutralize the enemy. That's what you tried to do.
Sure, maybe command could have implemented some policies and some procedures for our troops to try and make amends to the innocent civilians like the ones in the wrong house your team raided. And they probably should have. But as a foot solider executing raids on suspected terrorists that is just not something that you could have, or should have done. In the situation you describe you can't really question your orders or commander. If you had and it had been the correct house rather than the wrong one you could have endangered and gotten other soldiers killed.
I have to agree with Sen. Chuck Hagel that the Iraq war was the biggest blunder since the Vietnam War. You didn't create it though. You bear no responsibility for it nor for being given the wrong house to invade.
I'm glad you've had a sort of enlightenment. I believe it will continue to make you a better person.
I appreciate your sacrifices and service to our country.
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)I started to write a rather long rant, but I realized after reading through it that I was just feeling sorry for myself. I'll spare you from it
I always get kind of choked up when someone thanks me for my service. I never know how to react or what I'm supposed to say. What my service ended up being wasn't at all what I thought it was going to be. I (as well as many/most of my peers) offered to give everything to our country with the intention to make the world a better place (although that obviously isn't how the last couple of wars have turned out), and along the way to maybe move up ourselves in the world. On the good side of things the Army gave me a 4 year college education and years of real leadership experience that most guys in their early 20s ever have. It also taught me some very good life lessons and made me a much kinder and gentler person.
Anyways, thanks again for your words.
LisaLynne
(14,554 posts)If we were wrong? Yeah, you were wrong since there was no meth lab. And there were children in there when your "hard evidence" said there wasn't.
Initech
(100,041 posts)This is not the meth lab you are looking for!
NickB79
(19,224 posts)I always think back to this local story from a few years ago when I hear of these botched raids:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317398,00.html
Moua bolted upstairs, where her husband, Vang Khang, grabbed his shotgun from a closet, knelt and fired a warning shot through his doorway as he heard footsteps coming up the stairs. He let loose with two more blasts. Twenty-two bullets were fired back at him, by the family's count.
Then things suddenly became clear.
"It's the police! Police!" his sons yelled.
Khang, a Hmong immigrant with shaky command of English, set down his gun, raised his hands and was soon on the ground, an officer's boot on his neck.
I also read later that the police confirmed that, if it weren't for their vests, two officers would have likely received life-threatening wounds from those shotgun blasts he fired. If he'd had a rifle, those officers would have been killed.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Glassunion
(10,201 posts)"A sour note for the family in the aftermath of the raid was a decision by the department to award medals of valor to the eight officers who participated in it. Mayor R.T. Rybak later criticized that decision."
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)In 1989, police in Minneapolis, Minnesota, conducted a drug raid at the home of an elderly couple, Lloyd Smalley and Lillian Weiss, after receiving inaccurate information from an informant. The flashbang grenades police used in the raid set the home on fire. Police were certain no one was inside, and so, at first, made no attempt at rescue. Smalley and Weiss died of smoke inhalation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stun_grenade
hatrack
(59,578 posts)Unbelievable. "Oh look, it's a meth lab - let's throw in an explosive!"
I didn't think about that at first, but holy shit you're right! Meth labs and hot, burning things generally do not mix well.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)pediatricmedic
(397 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Even if there is no explosion, what about scattering chemicals? Did the officers have on breathing apparatus?
barbtries
(28,770 posts)this, what's going on in NC...i tuned in to DU for one minute (i'm working) and my BP's shooting up behind all the crap that goes on.
i hope this family ends up very well off. and the police learn a couple important lessons about homework and civility.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Or something like that...
Cleita
(75,480 posts)My DH and I woke up to the sounds of a loud knock on our door at 4 am one morning. He barely made it to the door to answer it before they were almost ready to break it down. We let them in and they trashed the place. They made us stand outside in our pjs in handcuffs until they were done and while the neighbors who were awakened by then looked on. They didn't find anything they were looking for and left without an apology. I filed a complaint with the City Attorney and subsequently found out that they had raided the wrong address. We got a stiff letter of apology a few weeks later from the Police Chief.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)....the SMELL is unmistakable.
There was a junk yard in Anaheim where they had dug an underground meth lab. You could smell it sometimes at night.
Maybe cops should drive with the windows down. Since the advent of suburbs you just don't hear about foot patrols.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)if it was a real one they would have possible been blown to kingdom come...
Socal31
(2,484 posts)If they had picked the correct home, there was the real possibility of an explosion that could have killed people. Their stupidity possibly saved their lives from their own stupidity.
Remember when police would knock on your door, instead of pretending everyone, even paranoid tweakers, was ready to detonate a nuke?
Or maybe even wait for them to come out and confront them. (as long as you dont kill them unarmed, like my PD did to my friend, which led to the suicide of another friend very recently, but I digress).
The feds pumped all that "anti-terror" cash into counties and cities, and they have to do something with it, right?
I can almost pin-point when Americans decided that police should carry more than a shotgun in the cruiser and a sidearm:
North Hollywood. Bank of America.
packman
(16,296 posts)Not the brightest thing, is it? What with vapors, fumes, and everything associated with a meth lab. Someone needs to educate those bozos, starting with basic reading of street addresses and then what happens with explosive devices and explosive fumes.