Does the show Dukes of Hazzard encourage racism?

[Justice wanted]

(Please note I am sorry if this question is in the wrong forum. I just wasn't sure if I should put it here on in the lounge?)


When I was younger I did watch Dukes. I know that it was geared towards kids during the middle of the 1st season.

Now that I'm older and more politically aware am I being bias against the show?

My husband started to collect the show on DVD. his little cousin when they come over our interested in watching the show. I am concerned only because their parents are well Fundie/conservative/well racist people at times. I think they only tolerate me being around their kids because I am a great last minute babysitter and the girls do enjoy being around me.

So am I being rude here and judging a show from 30 years ago on today's standards? Or should I just relax and let the kids enjoy a show that is probably less violent than most of the cartoons shown today?

[Rex]

1. They have the racist, 'slave owners' flag on their car

and named it the General Lee...what do you think?

[Justice wanted]

4. That's the arguement I give my husband and tells me I'm too uptight that the show did have

different cultures on the show and the Duke boys always did show respect.

But to be honest with you I don't remember it all that much.

[Rex]

7. Same here...I watched it as a child

but now that I am an adult, I find the show to be in very bad taste.

[yellowcanine]

99. "the show did have different cultures on the show and the Duke boys always did show respect."

Must have been a different show than the one I watched. I don't remember the Duke brothers showing "respect" to anyone. Showing respect is not really what they were about.

[fishwax]

2. Do you mean because of the rebel flag on the "general lee"? Or are there other aspects you question?

[Justice wanted]

6. all of it.

[fishwax]

28. I don't think it encourages racism so much as promotes a myth of a racism free confederate heritage

(note I said confederate heritage, not southern heritage--this isn't intended as a south bashing post.)

I haven't seen the show in years, and by and large I don't remember there being a lot of minority characters in the show. However, I do have a (vague, but I think genuine--as I've said, it's been a while since I've seen it) memory of the Duke family being critical of racist attitudes in an episode. I don't recall the Dukes themselves engaging in racist behaviors or language, though it's possible that they did.

But the use of confederate symbols such as that racist flag does seem to advance of a myth of a confederate heritage that is independent of that racial baggage, which is itself inaccurate and unfortunate.

[Justice wanted]

32. hmm. Thank you for giving me something to think about. interesting.

[Fawke Em]

33. The "good" sheriff in the neighboring county was a black man.

I used to watch the show, too.

I remember that the corrupt sheriff, Roscoe, in Hazzard County was white, while the thoughtful and diligent sheriff a county over was black.

[SwampG8r]

86. pretty sure he was

the same guy in smokey and the bandit that when jackie gleasons character met him said
"you didnt sound this ...tall on the radio"

[MADem]

3. I remember when that show was brand new, first run.

I have to admit that when I watched it I got that "knot" in my stomach. You know the one. The one where you get the sense that mean, red faced guys are getting ready to get a rope.

It made me very uncomfortable to watch it, so I never became a regular viewer.

I don't think it was "just" the good-ole-boy babbling, or the gratuitous flag on the "General Lee"--but that and who knows what else was enough to set me off. Change the channel!

I never even noticed any real violence--of course, I didn't watch enough to really be able to judge. I just got a "Black? Step back!" sense from that program.

[izquierdista]

5. It made being a redneck acceptable

Just about the time Reagan needed the racist redneck vote, 'Dukes of Hazzard' made stupid and backwards acceptable. You do know that Jimmy Carter was slowly bringing the South into the 20th century, until Reagan's pandering to the racists gave them another way out. Here we are 32 years later, and almost every problem in the country can be laid at the feet of pandering to the stupid and backwards.

[limpyhobbler]

20. It did make rednecks seem cool.

I'm not so sure they were stupid, they just didn't have much 'book lernin'. You're right it the show is kind of symbolic of the beginning of the era of anti-intellectualism.

[RZM]

47. Is it 'not acceptable' to be rural, backwards, and/or less intelligent than the mean?

Because that describes a whole lot of people. Would you say that to people in rural Appalachia who vote Dem? How about rural blacks in the South?

And there are a lot of problems that have nothing to do with pandering to the 'stupid and backwards.' Such, oh I don't know, the lack of regulation and enforcement on Wall St. That's about as far from 'stupid and backwards' as you can get.

For the record, I remember almost nothing about the show itself. But I do remember loving the car as a young child and having the toy.

[izquierdista]

51. You can be what you want, but don't tell me you know brain surgery or rocket science.

Lack of regulation is stupid and backwards, because we had this figured out in the '30s with Glass-Steagall until stupid and backwards Phil Gramm "fixed" it.

And that was a damn nice muscle car, flag or no flag on the roof.

[RZM]

53. I don't think that's how you really meant it though, is it?

You were talking about rednecks and such. Phil Gramm is far from that. He has a PhD in Economics. He's neither stupid, nor backwards . . . just greedy and looking out for his also-greedy pals.

[izquierdista]

54. There are smart PhDs and stupid ones.

I know, I met a few and had to work with them. Phil Gramm is smart enough to learn what bullshit he needs to use to buffalo a lot of people into thinking he is smart -- kind of like Newt, another stupid man with a PhD. Now for the backwards part, he did want to turn the clock back to before Glass-Steagall, so that is 80 years in the past.

But I'll agree with you on the third one. In addition to being stupid and backwards, he is also greedy.

[JI7]

69. you know many Rednecks support Obama and Bill Clinton considers himself a Redneck

[izquierdista]

71. That he is

He also signed NAFTA, signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall, ended "welfare as we know it", declared that "the era of Big Government is over", and is good golfing buddies with Poppy Bush.

[Brickbat]

8. How could it? There weren't any black people on it!

[Rex]

11. Sure there was! Don't you remember ___________

he was a main character for 4 seasons!

[limpyhobbler]

14. Nope. There was one black person in it. Sheriff Little of Chickasaw County!

That's some high quality tee-vee there.


But to be real, you're right. The show side stepped the issue of race by not having any black characters.

Very weird.

I don't think it encourages racism. One thing it does do is it desensitizes people to the confederate flag, so that may be seen as a negative. But that's it as far as I can recall.

[Brickbat]

18. Hee, awesome!

[Kurmudgeon]

9. Isn't the term "Fundie", faith-ist?

Not all conservatives are racist either.
I understand that the car has a Confederate battle flag on the roof, so does the South Carolina capitol building.
I'd look at it as a teachable moment and leave it at that.

[Justice wanted]

12. True. Perhaps I'm being racist myself in a sense because I equate Fundie/ conservative with

people who are racists and bible thumpers.

I have to remind myself that my own Heroine Wonder Woman (aka Lynda Carter-she will always be Wonder Woman to me) is a Born again Christian who came out against Sarah Palin and those who try to cram Born again beliefs down people's throat-sort of speaking

[Ecumenist]

44. The thing about Linda Carter makes sense to me considering that she's a Latina...

She has to cringe at all the anti-Latino sentiments being thrown around by the right.

[Aerows]

56. Wow, that makes me respect her

A Christian, who actually acts like a Christian and is not afraid to stand up for separation of Church and State.

[Kurmudgeon]

55. Thanks, it is rough when the assumption is the right wing owns my faith.

And it's even worse when backlash from right wing beliefs gets applied to Christ's Testimony.
I look at what is going on to the right and it appears more a form of mammon worship to me, more than anything.

[think]

10. The Confederate Flag on the "General Lee" might raise eyebrows but

here's Cooter's take on it:

Former Democratic Congressman Ben Jones, who played "Cooter" on the hit television show "The Dukes of Hazzard," has released a statement regarding an incident involving the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra. Jones calls the situation "a dangerous affront to the rights of performing artists and their audiences, and the worst example of political correctness I've ever heard of."

According to Jones, the Cincinnati Pops was pressured to cancel a July 14, 2007 performance by singers John Schneider and Tom Wopat because of their connection with "The Dukes of Hazzard." Jones and Schneider were both told that the cancellation came after members of the Cincinnati community complained that the popular and perennial family show has "racist overtones." Both Schneider and Wopat have appeared previously with the Cincinnati Pops...

~snip~

..."First of all, the original Dukes of Hazzard is a wonderfully benign show, one that is beloved by kids of all ages. My grandchildren love it. If some elitist wants to think otherwise, fine. I think that would be wrong-headed, but that is their right. But to go further and basically blacklist an artist because of a past association with that show is beyond the pale. I'm just trying to get the word out. I've done a lot of "Dukes' things for almost thirty years, and I've met legions of black folks who love the show and its values.".....

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2007/03/15/the_dukes_of_hazzard_racist

[Justice wanted]

15. Yes, I know Jones is a Democrat. I remember hearing about this in the past but not all of it

thanks for the link.

[think]

22. I just noticed his response was to the NAACP considering

a musical based on "The Dukes of Hazard" being racist. So obviously it is offensive to members of the NAACP.

I posted the information rather quickly and did not catch that. I apologize for that over site.

[Justice wanted]

24. That's okay. It still shows his point of view.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

13. When your husband collects Dukes of Hazzard episodes, it may be for a reason other than racism.

[Justice wanted]

19. Yes, he thinks of it as reliving his childhood and something fun to watch. He keeps telling me

the show wasn't rasicts. That I'm bringing my politics into it that it is just good harmless fun. He has reminded me that I've been seeing a lot of racists things happening and it has to do with people being raised with that attitude. But not to knock the show because of a flag when shows people not being racists in general.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

25. Actually, I was thinking that he might have been influenced by Daisy Mae.

[Justice wanted]

27. that too! but in general it was all about the "guys" and the car jumps

[Tom Ripley]

59. I would come into the room every 15 minutes to catch Daisy's scenes

like clockwork
very nice clockwork

[Brickbat]

16. I have to say I loved that show when I was younger. Mr. Brickbat wasn't allowed to watch it because

it was disrespectful to police officers.

[Snake Alchemist]

17. Wasn't Ernie Hudson in an episode?

I seem to remember they went out of their way to show the Duke boys were not racist.

[Justice wanted]

21. I'm not sure. My husband also said the same things that NO one in the show was racists even

the guy who played Boss Hogg (His name escapes me. I always did find it amazing that he and james Best --two very fine actors in my humble opinion--would spend so long on a show that was classified as kids show) wasn't racist.

[Snake Alchemist]

23. That's what I seem to remember.

It's been many years though since I've seen the show.

[Fawke Em]

34. Sorrell Brooke. eom

[Justice wanted]

37. Thank you. A brilliant Shakespearian trained actor.

[PragmaticLiberal]

62. Yeah, Hudson was in an episode.

In fact, there were quite a few black guests over the years if my memory serves me correctly.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. At worst, it could encourage a blind eye to racism

I can't remember any racist attitudes in it - but it did put forward the Confederate flag as being something southerners could be proud of. I wasn't a dedicated viewer, but I can't remember many black people in it at all - maybe not realistic, but that wasn't the only unrealistic facet.

You could, however, note that it consistently had the greedy, rich Boss Hog(g?) as the villain, with the corrupt, if incompetent, police doing his bidding. So it did have redeeming features.

[Justice wanted]

30. And from what I remember even though Boss was greedy and did corrupt things for money WHEN

a TRUE evil came into the picture he did "team up" with the Dukes to fight it.

My husband even pointed that out to me.

[NightWatcher]

29. Not racist but sexist. "Crazy Cooter Comin at ya"

Ben's cb handle making light of a female's reproductive system.

[Justice wanted]

31. Huh? maybe I'm still a little loopy from the meds doctor has me on to fight a cold but I don't get

it.

[Fawke Em]

35. No - his name came from the saying,

"Drunker than Cooter Brown," which is an old Southern colloquialism.

It had nothing to do with a woman's reproductive system.

[Justice wanted]

36. ahhh thanks. Going to have to reseach that one because I never heard of that before.

[NightWatcher]

46. Poor attempt on my part at humor

Im aware of the slang and know that there was no dig at women. I was raised on that show.

[Arkansas Granny]

92. Cooter also refers to a species of turtle native to the southeastern US.

Florida Cooter

[JVS]

38. The late 70s was the era of the "New South". Reappropriation of banner and the name General Lee...

are not necessarily promotions of racism, particularly considering that the show's main villian is named after Jefferson Davis. Likewise modern day usage of a mask from V for Vendetta does not promote the promotion of Catholic leaders through the assassination of Protestants.

[Ecumenist]

39. I NEVER watched it because as a black woman, I ALWAYS felt it was racist...

PERIOD. ETA Mr Ecumenist watched it because he was raised DEEPINDAHARTA and was a good old southern white boy. I'm sure that that had a lot to do with the different perspectives. He says that now that he's grown, he can see alot of distasteful things about the show.

[Neue Regel]

64. So even though you NEVER watched an episode, you felt it was racist?

What did you base your opinion on if you NEVER watched it?

[Ecumenist]

67. The thing that PUSHED ME AWAY was the CONFEDERATE FLAG!!! I have problems with it. Sorry if it

bothers you. Kind of the Swastika bothers jewish, Gypsies and Slavs..

[Snake Alchemist]

68. what is your problem with the slavs? nt

[Ecumenist]

70. Did you read what I wrote? I'm married to a SLAVIC man....Are you alright?

THE CONFEDERATE FLAG TO THE BLACK FOLKS IS LIKE THE SWASTIKA IS TO JEWS, GYSPIES AND SLAVS! Good grief..

[Snake Alchemist]

75. I don't believe The Holocaust equates to the American Civil War. nt

[Ecumenist]

77. My people were slaves and the people who were persectued during the Holocaust were

treated as badly, (you do understand the horrors the we as a people underwent durig slavery, right). That Confederate flag is as abhorrent as the swastika is to the people who were tortured, ENSLAVED, (yep, that's what it was) and MURDERED during the Holocaust. Oh yeah, I should mention that my husband LOST family during the war...nazi hatred of Slavs being what it is all, AND he's also partly Semitic, ( a Czech Jew).

So, I don't care WHAT YOU THINK, that flag represents the HORRIFIC treatment that my people were subjected to for over 400 YEARS!! Rape, Torture, beatings, selling children away from parents, treating us like dogs, literally. Although, the people who were subjected to the genocidal hatred of the Holocaust suffered for less than 20 years, both flags represent crimes against humanity. Again, I know my history, it is NOT an opinion nor is it an abstract...I grew up learning about my family having neighbors and friends lynched, seeing bodies swaying in the wind; facing down the nightriders, (the klan), with rifles and 10 family members and one family member who had to flee Mississippi in the middle of the night because word got to him that he was going to be lynched!

Again, I don't give a fuck what you think because to me, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS, BOTH of those flags represent the same thing. If that bothers you...Too bad!

[T S Justly]

78. +1

[Snake Alchemist]

81. the fact that you think the Jews suffered

For a mere 20 years gives me a chuckle.

[Ecumenist]

85. During the HOLOCAUST, stupid.. I grew up with Holocaust survivors and saw their tattoos

listened to their histories, what happened, how they were housed, the lice, the typhus, finding people dead on a daily basis, often in the morning;freezing and having to stand, often for hours in freezing water, the "selections", you name it. These people cried when they watched the hoses and dogs turned onto the the civil rights workers and protesters during the 60's because the same thing had been done to them in Europe. I listened as I was told about signs in the EARLY 20th century when there were signs that said, "no niggers, no dogs and NO JEWS", and this was in NEW YORK! Hell, I was named after a polish concert pianist who had survived Bergen Belsen and was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer while my mother was pregnant with me.
I know about the "pogroms" and listened to how they were thrown out of COUNTRIES and their properties were seized, they were murdered and this went on for hundreds of years. So, don't fucking play with me, Snake. For me, it's not a matter of thinking or chuckling....It's real, moron. So, chuckle, guffaw and do whatever you want, I feel the way I feel. I'm the wrong one to play with because I know what I'm talking about.

[Snake Alchemist]

88. Like I said. It gave me a chuckle considering their history. :). nt

[hobbit709]

89. ???????

[Snake Alchemist]

90. Due to the irony.

Or maybe that's not right. Due to the minimalization.

[Ecumenist]

100. You're an idiot. Who the hell is minimalising the travails of to oppressed people?

You know what? You're just an moron and I see that you're just going to continue to find my feelings on the subject funny. You have not walked in my shoes and don't know fuck about me. I hate the confederate flag and the swastika for what they represent to me and millions of other people throughout the world...period.

[Snake Alchemist]

101. As you said. I guess I am just "an moron." nt

[JustAnotherGen]

94. Plus 2

[Neue Regel]

80. I can understand...

That, at first glance, the confederate flag painted on the car would be off-putting. However, refusing to watch the show and then proclaiming that it is racist because of a car's paint job strikes me as simplistic. Was "Tom Sawyer" racist because Mark Twain used the 'N' word? Would you consider 'Hogan's Heroes' to be racist because of all the Nazis in every show?

[JustAnotherGen]

95. For some black Americans

It creates a visceral reaction. In the context of the show - it may have caused a visceral reaction to Ecumenical. In the context of that show - it did not bother me. But when I was leaving a hotel in Florida NY a few years back and TN plates rolled up with one painted on the side of the truck - I had a visceral reaction -

Black woman, early morning to get into Manhattan for a meeting, it's still dark out, walking alone, god knows who is in there (the truck's cab) - RUN! Run Adrienne Run!

If you can't understand that concept - you probably weren't given FIRST HAND experiences of what it means when white people in pick up trucks have that flag. My father was from Northern Alabama, I visited there often - and in his life experience (born in 1941) a Reb flag means one thing and one thing only - run. You are in danger.

Tom Sawyer was not - Samuel Clemens wrote the book in the dialect and actual WORDS of the people of that time. Good, bad, indifferent - he was an honest man.

Hogan's Heroes used to piss the Germans off. I have first hand experience of that having lived in Weisbaden (Army brat) the first few years of my life. In Hogan's Heroes - the Nazis are dumb shits that everyone gets one over on - and that makes it awfully funny. Though I've often wondered how the black soldier was allowed to stay alive in that show. That simply didn't make sense.

[thelordofhell]

40. Cooter and The Newt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101610548

[Justice wanted]

42. That brought up this post as well as one of cousins asking me if I'll let her watch the dukes next

time she comes.

[starroute]

41. My kids loved that show when they were preschoolers

The older one had a Dukes of Hazzard lunchbox and a Dukes of Hazzard big wheels. When the younger one was learning to talk, many of his first words were things like "Dukes car" and variations thereof.

So there's no doubt that little kids love it -- and I never saw much likelihood of my own kids picking up racist attitudes from it. The show also had an anti-authoritarian streak that I found healthy.

My main reservation about it would be that it papers over the actual facts of racism in the Deep South. But I think kids learn very early that a lot of the stories aimed at them leave out the more violent and brutal parts of history and current events.

If you're concerned, you can always say to them something like, "You realize this is kind of a fairy tale, don't you, and that cars can't really zoom through the air like that and that a real Boss Hogg would be a whole lot meaner?" And they will say, as my kids used to, "Of course, I know this isn't real."

I'd also add that when I was a kid, I read a lot of children's classics written between, say, 1900 and 1940, that included overt racism and never noticed it. When you're a kid, you just accept certain stereotypes, like jungle savages or wild Indians, as conventional story tropes and don't ever think to relate them to your own experience of people and events -- especially when you're aware that the book is an old one and that people when it was written didn't have the advantage of our present-day knowledge of the world.

[Justice wanted]

43. Interesting. Gives me more to think about. thanks.

[tularetom]

45. A dumbass show with a GREAT theme song

[T S Justly]

48. The movie, Moonrunners, upon which "The Dukes of Hazzard" was based, was good.

The car didn't have the battle flag make-up and it was very anti-establishment for its genre but not its time.

http://wn.com/Moonrunners

[Uncle Joe]

49. I've never seen a show with the possible exception of The A Team with so many cars flipping over,

nobody wearing seatbelts and they always depicted everybody crawling out from under the car immediately after the wreck to show that nobody ever got hurt.

I believe this was probably about the time more states began requiring seat belts to be worn.

Thanks for the thread, Justice wanted.

[Bucky]

50. I have fond memories of the show. It was silly, car-crashin, yeehawin' fun.

It's a little sexist at times. Just about zero racism. It didn't show racism in the South, but that's about as big an objection as saying "Welcome Back, Kotter" didn't show racism in the north or "Happy Days" didn't show racism in the Midwest. The heroes of the show were routinely shown being even handed and fair minded towards everyone they met and defiant of corrupt officials. I'd call it a net plus. There's the added bonus that shows in the 70s didn't have characters say "ass" and "SOB" all the time in order to get a laugh--something you won't find on most TV shows today.

Another thing to think about is that if you make a taboo out of a show that they later see and find out is harmless, it'll undermine your warnings in other areas.

[Justice wanted]

52. Interesting. something to factor into my thoughts as well.

[MrScorpio]

57. Down South, there are a lot of whites who sport the Stars and Bars just because it reps the South

And NOT as some kind of racist statement.

You see it all over the place. There are others who sport it to precisely make it a statement on white dominance. With a lot of other things, it's complicated.

Now, I personally don't think that Dukes was a racist show. But it had the flag on the Gen. Lee.

Make of that what you will.

With that said, during my years in the South, I never saw any BLACK people sporting confederates flags on their cars and the-shirts.

No secret why it's like that.

[Tom Ripley]

58. Yes...against ignorant, irresponsible, foolhardy peckerwoods

[ZombieHorde]

60. I watched the show when I was a kid, but all I remember are slow motion jumps and

short shorts.

[JSnuffy]

63. Relax....

The show is fine and it doesn't even sound like you have anything specific that you are worried about.

[Justice wanted]

65. My main concern is the General Lee and the Confederate Flag.

[Iggo]

66. Yes.

[Honeycombe8]

72. I never saw it. But if you watched it & grew up non-racist, then I guess answr is "no." nt

[aaaaaa5a]

73. I actually loved the "Dukes of Hazzard" when I was a kid. I wouldn't worry about it. nt

[elehhhhna]

74. Yes. It makes you think white people are stoopit.

[T S Justly]

76. I'll tell you exactly which Dukes encouraged racism ...

Their names start with David, Randy, and Marion "John". As in David Duke, Randy "Duke" Cunningham, and the
"Duke", himself, John Wayne. All born Yankee. How 'bout that?

[fishwax]

82. bit of a stretch to call Oklahoma "yankee"

David Duke was born in Tulsa.

[T S Justly]

84. South will take David Duke if you take Bobby "Duke" Jindahl and throw in Duke Snyder.

[Tsiyu]

79. Last Friday night, a young man leaned over and yelled to me

in the middle of a massive, loud crowd of dancing fans, " Watching The Dukes of Hazzard only taught me one thing."

He grinned at me, then cupped his hands around his mouth and gave the biggest "Yeehaw!!!!!!" I've ever heard.

(We were watching my son's rockabilly band and the yeehawer is one of my son's buddies. Very educated hipster type)

Don't know why I added that. The kid's comment - and subsequent earthshattering 'Yeehaw' just made me laugh. Every TV show has some redeeming quality, maybe?

[Nedsdag]

83. To me the show was a low brow version of Southern Gothic literature made for a television audience.

The Boss Hogg character could have been created by a Flannery O'Connor or a William Faulkner.

I teach literature at a community college and I tie in The Dukes of Hazzard with Southern Gothic literature.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

87. Swastikas and confederate flags were much more socially acceptable in the 70s and early 80s

But apart from some superficial confederate iconography (the confederate flag on the car, the car being named 'General Lee' and Daisy's jeep being named 'Dixie') and the fact that there were absolutely NO black people in Hazzard County, I don't remember the show being racist. (Although for the aforementioned reasons I doubt it would pass PC muster today) But I didn't watch it much, and not at all after the first couple of seasons, so I'm not exactly an authority...

[guitar man]

91. Don't know about racist

...but it sure was car-ist. A whole lot of perfectly good Dodge Chargers were destroyed making that show

[Iggo]

98. No no no no NO!

There was ONE Charger! And it survived ALL THEM JUMPS!

Dangit!

[Broderick]

93. Ban it

Collect and burn all memorabilia; destroy all recorded copies including those privately copied. Burn the original reels. Scrub the Internet and create laws that punish those that hide anything. Re-education camps can be created so those who violate the thought crime of talking/thinking/writing about the show, can be corrected. If I missed anything I apologize.

[Mr Dixon]

96. IMO

What a great Question, as a kid I loved this show, namely daisy duke LOL, but as an adult I would have to say it was pretty bad.

[WI_DEM]

97. I don't know as I didn't watch it much, but aren't all the 'boobs' white?

like Boss Hogg and the sheriff? I'm not sure it's actually racist--just an overall dumb show.