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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPennsylvania House Unanimously Violates First Amendment Of Constitution
You cant make this stuff up, folks. In a blatant violation of the Establishment Clause in the United States Constitution, the Pennsylvania House of Representatives passed a resolution declaring 2012 The Year of The Bible, and praised the book as the greatest book of the year even though there are still 11 months left until 2013. The resolution declares that the Bible played a major role in the Constitution and the founding of America, even though there is no mention of the Bible, God, Jesus, or Christianity in the Constitution. The resolution goes on to cite the many Presidents who supposedly paid tribute to the influence of the Bible in our countrys development, and declares that Americans need to study and apply the teachings of the holy scriptures. Heres the resolution in full:
Declaring 2012 as the Year of the Bible in Pennsylvania.
WHEREAS, The Bible, the word of God, has made a unique
contribution in shaping the United States as a distinctive and
blessed nation and people; and
WHEREAS, Deeply held religious convictions springing from the
holy scriptures led to the early settlement of our country; and
WHEREAS, Biblical teachings inspired concepts of civil
government that are contained in our Declaration of Independence
and the Constitution of the United States; and
WHEREAS, Many of our great national leaders, among them
President Washington, President Jackson, President Lincoln,
President Wilson and President Reagan, paid tribute to the
influence of the Bible in our countrys development, as
exemplified by the words of President Jackson that the Bible is
the rock on which our Republic rests; and
WHEREAS, The history of our country clearly illustrates the
value of voluntarily applying the teachings of the scriptures in
the lives of individuals, families and societies; and
WHEREAS, This nation now faces great challenges that will
test it as it has never been tested before; and
WHEREAS, Renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through
holy scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people;
therefore be it
RESOLVED, That the House of Representatives declare 2012 as
the Year of the Bible in Pennsylvania in recognition of both
the formative influence of the Bible on our Commonwealth and
nation and our national need to study and apply the teachings of
the holy scriptures.
Read more: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/28/pennsylvania-house-unanimously-violates-first-amendment-of-constitution-by-passing-bible-praising-resolution/
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)I figured it was hyperbolic bullshit, but no, it actually passed TWICE... once on Jan. 24th 2012, once on Dec. 7, 2011
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2011&sind=0&body=H&type=R&bn=0535
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2011&sind=0&body=H&type=R&bn=0498
PRINTER'S NO. 2983
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA
HOUSE RESOLUTION
No. 535 Session of
2012
INTRODUCED BY SACCONE, DENLINGER, STERN, AUMENT, BAKER, BLOOM, BROOKS, ELLIS, EMRICK, FLECK, GILLEN, GROVE, HAHN, HENNESSEY, HESS, KAUFFMAN, F. KELLER, KILLION, KRIEGER, MAHONEY, MAJOR, MALONEY, MARSHALL, MILLARD, MUSTIO, OBERLANDER, PAYNE, PAYTON, RAPP, READSHAW, REESE, ROCK, SIMMONS, SONNEY, STEVENSON, SWANGER AND TALLMAN, JANUARY 23, 2012
INTRODUCED AS NONCONTROVERSIAL RESOLUTION UNDER RULE 35, JANUARY 23, 2012
A RESOLUTION
Declaring 2012 as the "Year of the Bible" in Pennsylvania.
WHEREAS, The Bible, the word of God, has made a unique contribution in shaping the United States as a distinctive and blessed nation and people; and
WHEREAS, Deeply held religious convictions springing from the holy scriptures led to the early settlement of our country; and
WHEREAS, Biblical teachings inspired concepts of civil government that are contained in our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States; and
WHEREAS, Many of our great national leaders, among them President Washington, President Jackson, President Lincoln, President Wilson and President Reagan, paid tribute to the influence of the Bible in our country's development, as exemplified by the words of President Jackson that the Bible is "the rock on which our Republic rests"; and
WHEREAS, The history of our country clearly illustrates the value of voluntarily applying the teachings of the scriptures in the lives of individuals, families and societies; and
WHEREAS, This nation now faces great challenges that will test it as it has never been tested before; and
WHEREAS, Renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through holy scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people; therefore be it
RESOLVED, That the House of Representatives declare 2012 as the "Year of the Bible" in Pennsylvania in recognition of both the formative influence of the Bible on our Commonwealth and nation and our national need to study and apply the teachings of the holy scriptures.
Justice wanted
(2,657 posts)nanabugg
(2,198 posts)former9thward
(31,803 posts)All of the founders made references to God and Christianity in their speeches and writings.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)former9thward
(31,803 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)former9thward
(31,803 posts)Isn't my statement much closer to the truth than a statement that says all the founders were deists or atheists? I guess that statement didn't bother you as much. BTW as far as Paine goes only 6 people showed up for his funeral because he was so despised at the time of his death.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)You claim all founders were Christians. That is false. You claim all X is Y. The existence of even one X that is not Y falsifies the claim that all X is Y.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Which was false despite your attempts to parse it. Over 90% of the founders were some form of Christianity. Is that better for you? What is your percentage?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)sounds like you didn't know what you're talking about and that you still don't know.
that you're parroting conservative talking points here again is just a bonus (like all the times you argue against doing anything about poverty with me...).
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Do you have different information? BTW you have me mixed up with someone else. I have not argued that we should do nothing about poverty with you or anyone else.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Yeah, if deism is "some form of Christianity", then I'm a monkey's uncle.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)I have posted a link where scholars have found that just isn't true. But you know better than historians so link up.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)You're as capable as anyone of finding out the truth instead of mining for "data" to support your religious position.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Another let's make it up as we go along. I posted a link to an non-religious site. But I guess they have an agenda too.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)former9thward
(31,803 posts)Don't worry, the internet is a big place. There are always websites which will feed you whatever pablum you want.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)If you read it carefully.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)"I guess they didn't realize that the "founding fathers" were deists or borderline atheist.? " Exactly which founders were exempted by that either/or statement?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)You are replying to a post that is true with some information that is irrelevant to the point you are claming is "false"
It is fine to not understand.
It is not fine to say that anything you do not understand is "false."
Had you been replying to a post that said, "The founders almost never referred to gos or christianity in their writings" you could have said "false' with some reason.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Your post not so much.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)disgusting
former9thward
(31,803 posts)I won't hold my breath.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)your anti-unamerican-unconstitutional crusade.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Didn't you even read it?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)most of them were deists and atheists... what if a few were not? It doesn't matter.... we have a separation of church and state. The intent of keeping religion and government separate is pretty damn well established. and a very healthy thing. DO you disagree with that?
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Odds are you are a deist or an atheist so you want to project your views onto the founders.
"Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[13][14][15] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible" and Benjamin Franklin.[16] A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[17]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)and therefore religion should be part of our government. How's that?
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Facts are stubborn things.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)...and there are plenty of facts you have purposefully excluded.... just answer the question.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)I believe in the First Amendment and agree with the major SC decisions which have interpreted that Amendment regards to religion.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)former9thward
(31,803 posts)It is time wasting at best and a waste of money at worst. So, no, I don't agree with it. But that will not make me re-write history in order to attack it as the poster I was originally replying to did.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)weird.. Problem with your monitor?
former9thward
(31,803 posts)Mine is quite clear and so was the post I was replying to.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Education really has slipped in this country.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)I notice you didn't give a link.
progressoid
(49,825 posts)And yet, I am not a Christian. Or any kind of "believer" for that matter.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)State clearly your views on the topic instead of parsing words.
progressoid
(49,825 posts)I'm simply saying that references to God or Christianity doesn't necessary make that person a Christian.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)If you want to play word games go ahead.
progressoid
(49,825 posts)I'll repeat, I'm simply saying that references to God or Christianity doesn't necessary make that person a Christian.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)I guessing it is because you have no facts to back up the views you want to project.
progressoid
(49,825 posts)I was addressing your declaration that "All of the founders made references to God and Christianity in their speeches and writings". Ben Franklin called himself a Deist in his autobiography, but many call him a Christian. Woopdeedoo. It is immaterial. I have made references to Reaganomics, that doesn't make me a Republican. I've made references to Richard Feynman, that doesn't make me a nuclear physicist.
Ultimately, whether Paine, Franklin, Jefferson et. al. were Deists, frankly, is unimportant - they are dead and gone. How about we live in and solve the problems of the 21st century, not the 18th or the 1st.
former9thward
(31,803 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)former9thward
(31,803 posts)First they cherry pick who the founders were. They reduce it down to seven and then proclaim that only one was "an orthodox Christian. So they define who is Christian or not -- not by the chosen seven's words -- but by the website's peculiar cherry picked quotes. Sorry, nice try, but I'll go with the scholars.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)former9thward
(31,803 posts)A mind made up? I think you are throwing stones from that glass house.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Including those of James Madison-who is generally acknowledged to be the principal writer of the Constitution.
You have given me no examples except your opinion.
unblock
(51,974 posts)oh, and hey, if 2012 is the year of the bible, are they officially dissing it in all other years?
i mean, seriously, if the bible is so all-important, isn't giving it just one year a big insult to its author?
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)let's see if the ACLU will do anything about this. I'm hoping. This is my home state.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Oh wait...
MattBaggins
(7,894 posts)refer to it as "that state you drive through to get somewhere else."
October
(3,363 posts)MattBaggins
(7,894 posts)October
(3,363 posts)HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)That's even true if I'm trying to get somewhere ELSE in PA. But I agree with the previous post - NJ is the state you drive through to get somewhere else.
NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The are large parts of PA that would have been perfect filming locations for the movie Deliverance.
DCKit
(18,541 posts)I grew up in the middle, and I'm still disappointed. It didn't used to be like that.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)DCKit
(18,541 posts)quaker bill
(8,223 posts)I do not believe the resolution "establishes" a religion. It certainly commends one, and attempts to establish "facts" that are at best a speculative misreading of history. It is further well out of kind with the history of Pennsylvannia as established by Quakers on the grounds of religious tolerance.
I have plenty of criticism to offer this mess which is clearly an election year stunt. But I don't think a non-binding resolution "establishes" a religion in the sense prohibited by the constitution. It is a legal fine point that greater scholars that I may yet be called to sort out, if ACLU sues.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)meant to support? One of the fundamental principles of the First Amendment is to avoid government entanglement with religion. Seeing as there are multiple versions of the 'bible', they are clearly endorsing one, thereby officially supporting a government-approved bible to the exclusion of all the others.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)English you know.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)not made very well. I'm sure the pointy-headed legislators who wrote this only were referring to the KJV as being the "bible" worthy of such praise.
quaker bill
(8,223 posts)I find plenty of flaws with it as well.
If they wanted to endorse a version they would have said so, but they didn't.
In that the resolution is non-binding, you are apparently free to think this is not the "Year of the Bible" without government sanction of any sort. This is something I gather you will have no problem accomplishing, and I recommend it.
MH1
(17,537 posts)If so, it is in DIRECT violation of the verbatim TEXT of the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Of course, the First Amendment refers to the US Congress. How does this affect what States are or are not allowed to do? In any case, in the PA Constitution, Section 3 seems most relevant (emphasis added):
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship or to maintain any ministry against his consent; no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship.
I think they're skating on thin ice, but it won't matter.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)quaker bill
(8,223 posts)Therein lies the connundrum. So it certainly is not a "law" respecting anything
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)quaker bill
(8,223 posts)back in the day, when they wanted to "establish" a religion, they got serious about it. There were prison terms and even the death penalty for heretics, here in this country. The statue of Mary Dyer in Boston Commons speaks to this as she was the last Quaker to be hung there for her religion.
I do not think this rises to the level prohibited by the establishment clause. I could be wrong, if ACLU litigates we will perhaps see.
I think the resolution is a stupid and unfortunate election year bit of BS. Nobody running for office wants "He/She voted against the Bible" to appear in a campiagn ad from their opponent. This is why junk like this is proposed, in the hope that someone will vote in a way that can be used against them later.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Making themselves feel good with no actual, real-life effect. THey should be condemned for such trivialities.
quaker bill
(8,223 posts)There is alot of this going on and it should be condemned as a waste of time.
Loudmxr
(1,405 posts)Out of the world's most popular religions The Koran stands out as authoritative.
Because it was dictated. The Koran are the words of the prophet Mohammad.
Not saying it is the word of God just it is in the first person. Everything else is just what other people have written what the word of God is.
Now if a legislature were to praise The Koran ... holy goat dung!!!!
The establishment clause in the 1st Amendment is vital to a free, inclusive, and secular state.
I have no idea how you get that.
But I do like that the boink the maid section is authoritative. That's pretty much what Mohammed told his wife, too.
Fuzz
(8,827 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)can gt around the religious thing. Or they're hoping for a lawsuit.
BumRushDaShow
(127,312 posts)people sat home during the off-year elections and opted to fixate on Snooky or American Idol and other such nonsensical Gong Show takeoffs.
This became a sleeper state when the repuke governor opted not to hold his first press conference until almost 8 months after his inauguration. Someone pushed a button after that and the teabaggery is starting to ratchet up.
Of course we are still a state with some blue laws in place and one of the "establishment" repukes agendas is to privatize the liquor sales (we still have "State Stores", now called "Wine and Spirits Shoppes" regulated by the Liquor Control Board), and this effort has been thwarted so far by the same constituency who I am guessing they are trying to pander to now...
Boy what a mess we're in right now.
JPZenger
(6,819 posts)BumRushDaShow
(127,312 posts)to the group!!! Good info there.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)upwards of 10,000 lies." Mark Twain
aquart
(69,014 posts)It's filtered through ludicrous interpretations.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)read both but not many.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Even if it's not filtered -- it's still a mess.
MountainLaurel
(10,271 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)
that or they purposely pretend not to, in order to subvert the constitution in order to promote religion through government. These people make me sick.
Here's a good link on the subject of separation of church and state, and how the religious right wing is trying to rewrite the intent behind it. Also, there is plenty already out there about how the founding fathers felt about this issue, regardless of whether they believed in a god or not.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm
jwirr
(39,215 posts)since it does not reguire us to do anything I doubt it is against the Constitution.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)For a judge to solemnly declare that 2012 is not, in fact, the "year of the Bible" in Pennsylvania?
BumRushDaShow
(127,312 posts)If someone attacks it, it will play into the "The Muslim, Radical Christian Athiest Commie Socialist Nazi Obama is waging a war on religion" meme (despite the fact that the President has other more important things to deal with).
Depending on location though, it may serve to reverse some of the state Senator/state rep races for districts where people sat home in 2010, if it gets lumped in with the other teabaggery things that the legislature is starting to enact like assaulting the SNAP program, gleefully refusing money to school districts in need (including the increasingly dire revelations of the state-run School Reform Commission overseeing the Philly Schools and the corruption associated with that), and the governor's own potential involvement/coverup of the Penn State fiasco while Attorney General.... and this will hopefully send them on their way out.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,119 posts)Have they run out of things to rename after Saint Reagan?
MH1
(17,537 posts)They need to let the gas extraction tax discussions keep dragging on until his buddies have made their money, ya know.
Initech
(99,915 posts)yellowcanine
(35,692 posts)unionworks
(3,574 posts)Tell them to Keep Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky in their prayers. They're gonna need it.
alp227
(31,961 posts)Obviously they can't afford to have ads all over saying " This rep) dissed the Bible!"
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)WCGreen
(45,558 posts)A resolution means nothing...
It was a poitical ploy on the part of the GOP to get democrats on the record as hating god....
nothing more or nothng less...
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)If they are going to be true to the Bible (or a Bible), why not bring back witch trials?
http://etext.virginia.edu/salem/witchcraft/
What about the biblical references to unicorns? (e.g., Psalm 92:10)
Should we look for them as well? Or were they, as some believe, killed in the flood because they were frolicking and didn't have enough good sense to get on the ark?
If there is a "national need to study and apply the teachings of the holy scriptures," yes, let's do that.
Response to Galraedia (Original post)
Obamanaut This message was self-deleted by its author.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)It's a resolution. The most useful thing one could do with a resolution is use the printed copy to wipe your ass.
This is a non-issue. It's no different from declaring some month to be "Super-Duper Citizens Month" or "Toilet Paper History Month." It's nothing but political theater and should be attacked as such. Example: "Perhaps the PA legislature should take their own advice and do some work so they can earn their own bread."
PeacefulLizard
(1 post)A petition online has been created to voice opposition to this absurd farce of legislation.
It was just created yesterday and this issue isn't getting much media play yet, so the signatures are few right now, but surely we can help change that. Sign and spread the word!
http://www.change.org/petitions/pa-house-of-reps-passed-a-resolution-declaring-2012-to-be-year-of-the-bible-let-them-know-this-is-a-violation-of-the-separation-of-church-and-state
Response to PeacefulLizard (Reply #104)
Obamanaut This message was self-deleted by its author.