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Galraedia

(5,015 posts)
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:05 AM Jan 2012

Pennsylvania House Unanimously Violates First Amendment Of Constitution

You can’t make this stuff up, folks. In a blatant violation of the Establishment Clause in the United States Constitution, the Pennsylvania House of Representatives passed a resolution declaring 2012 ‘The Year of The Bible,’ and praised the book as the greatest book of the year even though there are still 11 months left until 2013. The resolution declares that the Bible played a major role in the Constitution and the founding of America, even though there is no mention of the Bible, God, Jesus, or Christianity in the Constitution. The resolution goes on to cite the many Presidents who supposedly ‘paid tribute to the influence of the Bible in our country’s development,’ and declares that Americans ‘need to study and apply the teachings of the holy scriptures.’ Here’s the resolution in full:

A RESOLUTION

Declaring 2012 as the “Year of the Bible” in Pennsylvania.

WHEREAS, The Bible, the word of God, has made a unique
contribution in shaping the United States as a distinctive and
blessed nation and people; and

WHEREAS, Deeply held religious convictions springing from the
holy scriptures led to the early settlement of our country; and

WHEREAS, Biblical teachings inspired concepts of civil
government that are contained in our Declaration of Independence
and the Constitution of the United States; and

WHEREAS, Many of our great national leaders, among them
President Washington, President Jackson, President Lincoln,
President Wilson and President Reagan, paid tribute to the
influence of the Bible in our country’s development, as
exemplified by the words of President Jackson that the Bible is
“the rock on which our Republic rests”; and

WHEREAS, The history of our country clearly illustrates the
value of voluntarily applying the teachings of the scriptures in
the lives of individuals, families and societies; and

WHEREAS, This nation now faces great challenges that will
test it as it has never been tested before; and

WHEREAS, Renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through
holy scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people;
therefore be it

RESOLVED, That the House of Representatives declare 2012 as
the “Year of the Bible” in Pennsylvania in recognition of both
the formative influence of the Bible on our Commonwealth and
nation and our national need to study and apply the teachings of
the holy scriptures.


Read more: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/28/pennsylvania-house-unanimously-violates-first-amendment-of-constitution-by-passing-bible-praising-resolution/
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Pennsylvania House Unanimously Violates First Amendment Of Constitution (Original Post) Galraedia Jan 2012 OP
Dear Pa Reps... hootinholler Jan 2012 #1
Damn, it's a real story,too. krispos42 Jan 2012 #2
I am ashamed to be a citizen of PA today. Justice wanted Jan 2012 #3
I guess they didn't realize that the "founding fathers" were deists or borderline atheist.? nt nanabugg Jan 2012 #4
That is false. former9thward Jan 2012 #19
Thomas Paine? MNBrewer Jan 2012 #20
Paine represents all the founders? former9thward Jan 2012 #30
Was just pointing out that your statement was false. MNBrewer Jan 2012 #56
You can come up with one person so my statement was false? former9thward Jan 2012 #57
Absolutely MNBrewer Jan 2012 #62
But you have no problem with the post I was replying to? former9thward Jan 2012 #66
You said "All" and now you're asking if 90% is okay CreekDog Jan 2012 #79
I have posted a link for my information. former9thward Jan 2012 #88
Some form? MNBrewer Jan 2012 #86
I guess you will provide a link to the deistism of the founders. former9thward Jan 2012 #89
I'll be goddamned if I'll provide you with anything MNBrewer Jan 2012 #90
I knew you had nothing. former9thward Jan 2012 #95
Believe whatever you want. You're obviously capable of that. MNBrewer Jan 2012 #98
Facts are such stubborn pesky things! former9thward Jan 2012 #99
The post to which you replied incorrectly did not claim that ALL the founders were deists or atheist MNBrewer Jan 2012 #63
I read it. I did not parse it. former9thward Jan 2012 #65
Your "false" is false. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #22
I understood the post I was replying to very well. former9thward Jan 2012 #32
not surprised to see you spin like this... fascisthunter Jan 2012 #23
I am sure you will link to where the founders were all atheists. former9thward Jan 2012 #28
I Didn't say they were... try harder in your Religious crusade fascisthunter Jan 2012 #31
The post I was replying to said they all were deists or atheists. former9thward Jan 2012 #33
yes I did, and would like to know why that bothers you so much? fascisthunter Jan 2012 #37
Your 'history' is flat out wrong. former9thward Jan 2012 #39
odds are you are a very religious person trying to defend this BS meme they were all religious fascisthunter Jan 2012 #41
I am not "very religious" --whatever that means -- but I have history on my side. former9thward Jan 2012 #44
do you agree with the Separation of Church and State? fascisthunter Jan 2012 #45
I'm sure you will post the "plenty of facts" I have "purposefully excluded". former9thward Jan 2012 #49
uhuh.... so you agree with this legislation or not? fascisthunter Jan 2012 #50
I don't agree with any legislation which 'honors' something or 'commemorates' something. former9thward Jan 2012 #60
umm . . no one said that annabanana Jan 2012 #51
The problem is with yours. former9thward Jan 2012 #58
Oh, dear. aquart Jan 2012 #24
"Educate" me. former9thward Jan 2012 #29
I often reference God and Christianity too. progressoid Jan 2012 #53
So are you saying the founders were all deists or atheists? former9thward Jan 2012 #61
I'm not parsing words. progressoid Jan 2012 #64
The discussion is about whether the founders as a whole were Christian or not. former9thward Jan 2012 #67
Are you refering to the word games you started when saying, progressoid Jan 2012 #69
Again you deflect from the subject matter. former9thward Jan 2012 #73
I was not deflecting from the subject matter. progressoid Jan 2012 #75
At least I agree with your last sentence. former9thward Jan 2012 #83
I refer you to this hobbit709 Jan 2012 #78
A cherry picked website at best. former9thward Jan 2012 #82
Your mind is made up so i won't confuse you. hobbit709 Jan 2012 #96
And you were unable to reply to any of my points. former9thward Jan 2012 #97
I gave you actual writing from the time hobbit709 Jan 2012 #103
doesn't the bible have something to say about poseurs and hypocrites and idolators? unblock Jan 2012 #5
What a bunch of fuckwads... mrmpa Jan 2012 #6
Only in the South Hugabear Jan 2012 #7
LOL! Fawke Em Jan 2012 #13
Those of us that border Penn MattBaggins Jan 2012 #17
Actually, that would be NJ. /nt October Jan 2012 #42
Nope I drive through Pennsylvania to get to NJ MattBaggins Jan 2012 #48
And I drive through NJ to get to NY, NE. :) October Feb 2012 #108
A LOOOOOONNNNGGGG drive! HopeHoops Jan 2012 #46
LOL, that statement remind me of my Ohio days nt NoGOPZone Jan 2012 #59
PA is Philly to the east, Pitt in the West, and Alabama in the middle ... always has been. JoePhilly Jan 2012 #54
Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburg in the west and Kentucky in the middle. DCKit Jan 2012 #8
The common term for where I live is Pennsyltucky. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #47
oops ... didn't see your post. Everyone from PA knows it's true. JoePhilly Jan 2012 #55
Yeppers. I've been using that one since I moved to DC in '89. nt DCKit Jan 2012 #100
While I don't support it quaker bill Jan 2012 #9
Which version of the bible is this COLGATE4 Jan 2012 #11
Fundies usually stick with the King James version because it is easier to twist the meaning. Old jwirr Jan 2012 #40
Yep. That was my point, although admittedly COLGATE4 Feb 2012 #107
The resolution is non-binding and says what it says quaker bill Jan 2012 #77
It is certainly a law "respecting an establishment of religion" is it not? MH1 Jan 2012 #12
I take back my post that it does not ignore the Constitution. Sorry. jwirr Jan 2012 #38
A non binding resolution is not a law. quaker bill Jan 2012 #76
It RECOMMENDS one. MNBrewer Jan 2012 #21
In a non-binding way without sanction of any sort quaker bill Jan 2012 #80
Then they're basically legislatively masturbating MNBrewer Jan 2012 #87
I agree quaker bill Jan 2012 #106
The most authoritative holy book is The Koran... why??? Loudmxr Jan 2012 #10
Oh dear. aquart Jan 2012 #26
There is no such thing as an authoritative holy book. Fuzz Jan 2012 #35
Wow. Unbelievable. But I guess if you view the Bible as a BOOK, you Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #14
This is all because BumRushDaShow Jan 2012 #15
Much more on the PA. republican party's War on the Poor JPZenger Jan 2012 #81
Thanks for the link BumRushDaShow Jan 2012 #93
"The bible is a book with some beautiful poetry, a blood stained history, a wealth of obscenity and Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #16
That's what comes of getting your bible from church. aquart Jan 2012 #27
The only other way to read it would be if we all knew Hebrew and Greek. I have known people who jwirr Jan 2012 #36
The book itself is just a mess -- a mishmash of mythology and odd stories. Arugula Latte Jan 2012 #68
And 2013 will be the Year of the Koran? n/t MountainLaurel Jan 2012 #18
some People Really do not understand the COncept of Separation of Church and State fascisthunter Jan 2012 #25
It is a foolish and petty move on their part and only serves to make Christianity less popular but jwirr Jan 2012 #34
A stupid waste of time, but what's the remedy? Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #43
There is none BumRushDaShow Jan 2012 #52
Well, it beats passing any constructive legislation. Buns_of_Fire Jan 2012 #70
Nah, they just needed to distract from the issue of Corbett's cronies extracting shale gas for free. MH1 Jan 2012 #72
It's official - we live in the Matrix. Initech Jan 2012 #71
Eh. A steenkin resolution. Big whoop. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. yellowcanine Jan 2012 #74
Oh Dear God unionworks Jan 2012 #84
What's wrong, progressive (D) Reps in Pennsylvania? No courage to dissent from religion? alp227 Jan 2012 #85
Can 2013 go to the Koran, 2014 to the Torah, etc., etc.,? NYC_SKP Jan 2012 #91
These things are worthless.... WCGreen Jan 2012 #92
If they truly want to honor the Bible, why would they "suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18)? AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #94
This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Jan 2012 #101
No it doesn't MFrohike Jan 2012 #102
Sign petition to repeal this illegal resolution PeacefulLizard Jan 2012 #104
This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Jan 2012 #105

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
2. Damn, it's a real story,too.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:29 AM
Jan 2012

I figured it was hyperbolic bullshit, but no, it actually passed TWICE... once on Jan. 24th 2012, once on Dec. 7, 2011


http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2011&sind=0&body=H&type=R&bn=0535
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2011&sind=0&body=H&type=R&bn=0498


PRINTER'S NO. 2983

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA

HOUSE RESOLUTION
No. 535 Session of
2012


INTRODUCED BY SACCONE, DENLINGER, STERN, AUMENT, BAKER, BLOOM, BROOKS, ELLIS, EMRICK, FLECK, GILLEN, GROVE, HAHN, HENNESSEY, HESS, KAUFFMAN, F. KELLER, KILLION, KRIEGER, MAHONEY, MAJOR, MALONEY, MARSHALL, MILLARD, MUSTIO, OBERLANDER, PAYNE, PAYTON, RAPP, READSHAW, REESE, ROCK, SIMMONS, SONNEY, STEVENSON, SWANGER AND TALLMAN, JANUARY 23, 2012


INTRODUCED AS NONCONTROVERSIAL RESOLUTION UNDER RULE 35, JANUARY 23, 2012



A RESOLUTION

Declaring 2012 as the "Year of the Bible" in Pennsylvania.
WHEREAS, The Bible, the word of God, has made a unique contribution in shaping the United States as a distinctive and blessed nation and people; and
WHEREAS, Deeply held religious convictions springing from the holy scriptures led to the early settlement of our country; and
WHEREAS, Biblical teachings inspired concepts of civil government that are contained in our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States; and
WHEREAS, Many of our great national leaders, among them President Washington, President Jackson, President Lincoln, President Wilson and President Reagan, paid tribute to the influence of the Bible in our country's development, as exemplified by the words of President Jackson that the Bible is "the rock on which our Republic rests"; and
WHEREAS, The history of our country clearly illustrates the value of voluntarily applying the teachings of the scriptures in the lives of individuals, families and societies; and
WHEREAS, This nation now faces great challenges that will test it as it has never been tested before; and
WHEREAS, Renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through holy scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people; therefore be it
RESOLVED, That the House of Representatives declare 2012 as the "Year of the Bible" in Pennsylvania in recognition of both the formative influence of the Bible on our Commonwealth and nation and our national need to study and apply the teachings of the holy scriptures.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
19. That is false.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:13 PM
Jan 2012

All of the founders made references to God and Christianity in their speeches and writings.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
57. You can come up with one person so my statement was false?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:25 PM
Jan 2012

Isn't my statement much closer to the truth than a statement that says all the founders were deists or atheists? I guess that statement didn't bother you as much. BTW as far as Paine goes only 6 people showed up for his funeral because he was so despised at the time of his death.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
62. Absolutely
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:35 PM
Jan 2012

You claim all founders were Christians. That is false. You claim all X is Y. The existence of even one X that is not Y falsifies the claim that all X is Y.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
66. But you have no problem with the post I was replying to?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:22 PM
Jan 2012

Which was false despite your attempts to parse it. Over 90% of the founders were some form of Christianity. Is that better for you? What is your percentage?

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
79. You said "All" and now you're asking if 90% is okay
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 07:22 PM
Jan 2012

sounds like you didn't know what you're talking about and that you still don't know.

that you're parroting conservative talking points here again is just a bonus (like all the times you argue against doing anything about poverty with me...).

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
88. I have posted a link for my information.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:01 PM
Jan 2012

Do you have different information? BTW you have me mixed up with someone else. I have not argued that we should do nothing about poverty with you or anyone else.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
89. I guess you will provide a link to the deistism of the founders.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:03 PM
Jan 2012

I have posted a link where scholars have found that just isn't true. But you know better than historians so link up.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
90. I'll be goddamned if I'll provide you with anything
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:10 PM
Jan 2012

You're as capable as anyone of finding out the truth instead of mining for "data" to support your religious position.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
95. I knew you had nothing.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:21 PM
Jan 2012

Another let's make it up as we go along. I posted a link to an non-religious site. But I guess they have an agenda too.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
99. Facts are such stubborn pesky things!
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:33 PM
Jan 2012

Don't worry, the internet is a big place. There are always websites which will feed you whatever pablum you want.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
63. The post to which you replied incorrectly did not claim that ALL the founders were deists or atheist
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:37 PM
Jan 2012

If you read it carefully.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
65. I read it. I did not parse it.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:19 PM
Jan 2012

"I guess they didn't realize that the "founding fathers" were deists or borderline atheist.? " Exactly which founders were exempted by that either/or statement?

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
22. Your "false" is false.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:20 PM
Jan 2012

You are replying to a post that is true with some information that is irrelevant to the point you are claming is "false"

It is fine to not understand.

It is not fine to say that anything you do not understand is "false."

Had you been replying to a post that said, "The founders almost never referred to gos or christianity in their writings" you could have said "false' with some reason.


 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
31. I Didn't say they were... try harder in your Religious crusade
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:47 PM
Jan 2012

your anti-unamerican-unconstitutional crusade.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
37. yes I did, and would like to know why that bothers you so much?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:52 PM
Jan 2012

most of them were deists and atheists... what if a few were not? It doesn't matter.... we have a separation of church and state. The intent of keeping religion and government separate is pretty damn well established. and a very healthy thing. DO you disagree with that?

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
39. Your 'history' is flat out wrong.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:56 PM
Jan 2012

Odds are you are a deist or an atheist so you want to project your views onto the founders.

"Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[13][14][15] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible&quot and Benjamin Franklin.[16] A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[17]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
41. odds are you are a very religious person trying to defend this BS meme they were all religious
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:57 PM
Jan 2012

and therefore religion should be part of our government. How's that?

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
44. I am not "very religious" --whatever that means -- but I have history on my side.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:00 PM
Jan 2012

Facts are stubborn things.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
45. do you agree with the Separation of Church and State?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:01 PM
Jan 2012

...and there are plenty of facts you have purposefully excluded.... just answer the question.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
49. I'm sure you will post the "plenty of facts" I have "purposefully excluded".
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:06 PM
Jan 2012

I believe in the First Amendment and agree with the major SC decisions which have interpreted that Amendment regards to religion.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
60. I don't agree with any legislation which 'honors' something or 'commemorates' something.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:30 PM
Jan 2012

It is time wasting at best and a waste of money at worst. So, no, I don't agree with it. But that will not make me re-write history in order to attack it as the poster I was originally replying to did.

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
53. I often reference God and Christianity too.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:16 PM
Jan 2012

And yet, I am not a Christian. Or any kind of "believer" for that matter.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
61. So are you saying the founders were all deists or atheists?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:31 PM
Jan 2012

State clearly your views on the topic instead of parsing words.

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
64. I'm not parsing words.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:05 PM
Jan 2012

I'm simply saying that references to God or Christianity doesn't necessary make that person a Christian.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
67. The discussion is about whether the founders as a whole were Christian or not.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:24 PM
Jan 2012

If you want to play word games go ahead.

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
69. Are you refering to the word games you started when saying,
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:42 PM
Jan 2012
"All of the founders made references to God and Christianity in their speeches and writings."

I'll repeat, I'm simply saying that references to God or Christianity doesn't necessary make that person a Christian.


former9thward

(31,803 posts)
73. Again you deflect from the subject matter.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 03:11 PM
Jan 2012

I guessing it is because you have no facts to back up the views you want to project.

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
75. I was not deflecting from the subject matter.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 05:45 PM
Jan 2012

I was addressing your declaration that "All of the founders made references to God and Christianity in their speeches and writings". Ben Franklin called himself a Deist in his autobiography, but many call him a Christian. Woopdeedoo. It is immaterial. I have made references to Reaganomics, that doesn't make me a Republican. I've made references to Richard Feynman, that doesn't make me a nuclear physicist.

Ultimately, whether Paine, Franklin, Jefferson et. al. were Deists, frankly, is unimportant - they are dead and gone. How about we live in and solve the problems of the 21st century, not the 18th or the 1st.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
82. A cherry picked website at best.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:02 PM
Jan 2012

First they cherry pick who the founders were. They reduce it down to seven and then proclaim that only one was "an orthodox Christian. So they define who is Christian or not -- not by the chosen seven's words -- but by the website's peculiar cherry picked quotes. Sorry, nice try, but I'll go with the scholars.

former9thward

(31,803 posts)
97. And you were unable to reply to any of my points.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:26 PM
Jan 2012

A mind made up? I think you are throwing stones from that glass house.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
103. I gave you actual writing from the time
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 08:28 AM
Jan 2012

Including those of James Madison-who is generally acknowledged to be the principal writer of the Constitution.
You have given me no examples except your opinion.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
5. doesn't the bible have something to say about poseurs and hypocrites and idolators?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:56 AM
Jan 2012

oh, and hey, if 2012 is the year of the bible, are they officially dissing it in all other years?

i mean, seriously, if the bible is so all-important, isn't giving it just one year a big insult to its author?

mrmpa

(4,033 posts)
6. What a bunch of fuckwads...
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:25 AM
Jan 2012

let's see if the ACLU will do anything about this. I'm hoping. This is my home state.

 

HopeHoops

(47,675 posts)
46. A LOOOOOONNNNGGGG drive!
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:04 PM
Jan 2012

That's even true if I'm trying to get somewhere ELSE in PA. But I agree with the previous post - NJ is the state you drive through to get somewhere else.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
54. PA is Philly to the east, Pitt in the West, and Alabama in the middle ... always has been.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:18 PM
Jan 2012

The are large parts of PA that would have been perfect filming locations for the movie Deliverance.

 

DCKit

(18,541 posts)
8. Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburg in the west and Kentucky in the middle.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 07:33 AM
Jan 2012

I grew up in the middle, and I'm still disappointed. It didn't used to be like that.

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
9. While I don't support it
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:22 AM
Jan 2012

I do not believe the resolution "establishes" a religion. It certainly commends one, and attempts to establish "facts" that are at best a speculative misreading of history. It is further well out of kind with the history of Pennsylvannia as established by Quakers on the grounds of religious tolerance.

I have plenty of criticism to offer this mess which is clearly an election year stunt. But I don't think a non-binding resolution "establishes" a religion in the sense prohibited by the constitution. It is a legal fine point that greater scholars that I may yet be called to sort out, if ACLU sues.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
11. Which version of the bible is this
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:38 AM
Jan 2012

meant to support? One of the fundamental principles of the First Amendment is to avoid government entanglement with religion. Seeing as there are multiple versions of the 'bible', they are clearly endorsing one, thereby officially supporting a government-approved bible to the exclusion of all the others.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
40. Fundies usually stick with the King James version because it is easier to twist the meaning. Old
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:56 PM
Jan 2012

English you know.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
107. Yep. That was my point, although admittedly
Wed Feb 1, 2012, 11:55 AM
Feb 2012

not made very well. I'm sure the pointy-headed legislators who wrote this only were referring to the KJV as being the "bible" worthy of such praise.

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
77. The resolution is non-binding and says what it says
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 07:13 PM
Jan 2012

I find plenty of flaws with it as well.

If they wanted to endorse a version they would have said so, but they didn't.

In that the resolution is non-binding, you are apparently free to think this is not the "Year of the Bible" without government sanction of any sort. This is something I gather you will have no problem accomplishing, and I recommend it.

MH1

(17,537 posts)
12. It is certainly a law "respecting an establishment of religion" is it not?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:52 AM
Jan 2012

If so, it is in DIRECT violation of the verbatim TEXT of the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Of course, the First Amendment refers to the US Congress. How does this affect what States are or are not allowed to do? In any case, in the PA Constitution, Section 3 seems most relevant (emphasis added):

Section 3

All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship or to maintain any ministry against his consent; no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship.


I think they're skating on thin ice, but it won't matter.

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
76. A non binding resolution is not a law.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 06:25 PM
Jan 2012

Therein lies the connundrum. So it certainly is not a "law" respecting anything

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
80. In a non-binding way without sanction of any sort
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 07:23 PM
Jan 2012

back in the day, when they wanted to "establish" a religion, they got serious about it. There were prison terms and even the death penalty for heretics, here in this country. The statue of Mary Dyer in Boston Commons speaks to this as she was the last Quaker to be hung there for her religion.

I do not think this rises to the level prohibited by the establishment clause. I could be wrong, if ACLU litigates we will perhaps see.

I think the resolution is a stupid and unfortunate election year bit of BS. Nobody running for office wants "He/She voted against the Bible" to appear in a campiagn ad from their opponent. This is why junk like this is proposed, in the hope that someone will vote in a way that can be used against them later.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
87. Then they're basically legislatively masturbating
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:53 PM
Jan 2012

Making themselves feel good with no actual, real-life effect. THey should be condemned for such trivialities.

Loudmxr

(1,405 posts)
10. The most authoritative holy book is The Koran... why???
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 10:06 AM
Jan 2012

Out of the world's most popular religions The Koran stands out as authoritative.

Because it was dictated. The Koran are the words of the prophet Mohammad.

Not saying it is the word of God just it is in the first person. Everything else is just what other people have written what the word of God is.

Now if a legislature were to praise The Koran ... holy goat dung!!!!

The establishment clause in the 1st Amendment is vital to a free, inclusive, and secular state.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
26. Oh dear.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:27 PM
Jan 2012

I have no idea how you get that.

But I do like that the boink the maid section is authoritative. That's pretty much what Mohammed told his wife, too.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
14. Wow. Unbelievable. But I guess if you view the Bible as a BOOK, you
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:59 AM
Jan 2012

can gt around the religious thing. Or they're hoping for a lawsuit.

BumRushDaShow

(127,312 posts)
15. This is all because
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:02 PM
Jan 2012

people sat home during the off-year elections and opted to fixate on Snooky or American Idol and other such nonsensical Gong Show takeoffs.

This became a sleeper state when the repuke governor opted not to hold his first press conference until almost 8 months after his inauguration. Someone pushed a button after that and the teabaggery is starting to ratchet up.

Of course we are still a state with some blue laws in place and one of the "establishment" repukes agendas is to privatize the liquor sales (we still have "State Stores", now called "Wine and Spirits Shoppes" regulated by the Liquor Control Board), and this effort has been thwarted so far by the same constituency who I am guessing they are trying to pander to now...

Boy what a mess we're in right now.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
16. "The bible is a book with some beautiful poetry, a blood stained history, a wealth of obscenity and
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:03 PM
Jan 2012

upwards of 10,000 lies." Mark Twain

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
36. The only other way to read it would be if we all knew Hebrew and Greek. I have known people who
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:52 PM
Jan 2012

read both but not many.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
68. The book itself is just a mess -- a mishmash of mythology and odd stories.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:34 PM
Jan 2012

Even if it's not filtered -- it's still a mess.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
25. some People Really do not understand the COncept of Separation of Church and State
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:26 PM
Jan 2012

Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)

that or they purposely pretend not to, in order to subvert the constitution in order to promote religion through government. These people make me sick.

Here's a good link on the subject of separation of church and state, and how the religious right wing is trying to rewrite the intent behind it. Also, there is plenty already out there about how the founding fathers felt about this issue, regardless of whether they believed in a god or not.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
34. It is a foolish and petty move on their part and only serves to make Christianity less popular but
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:51 PM
Jan 2012

since it does not reguire us to do anything I doubt it is against the Constitution.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
43. A stupid waste of time, but what's the remedy?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:58 PM
Jan 2012

For a judge to solemnly declare that 2012 is not, in fact, the "year of the Bible" in Pennsylvania?

BumRushDaShow

(127,312 posts)
52. There is none
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:15 PM
Jan 2012

If someone attacks it, it will play into the "The Muslim, Radical Christian Athiest Commie Socialist Nazi Obama is waging a war on religion" meme (despite the fact that the President has other more important things to deal with).

Depending on location though, it may serve to reverse some of the state Senator/state rep races for districts where people sat home in 2010, if it gets lumped in with the other teabaggery things that the legislature is starting to enact like assaulting the SNAP program, gleefully refusing money to school districts in need (including the increasingly dire revelations of the state-run School Reform Commission overseeing the Philly Schools and the corruption associated with that), and the governor's own potential involvement/coverup of the Penn State fiasco while Attorney General.... and this will hopefully send them on their way out.

Buns_of_Fire

(17,119 posts)
70. Well, it beats passing any constructive legislation.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 02:44 PM
Jan 2012

Have they run out of things to rename after Saint Reagan?

MH1

(17,537 posts)
72. Nah, they just needed to distract from the issue of Corbett's cronies extracting shale gas for free.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 03:07 PM
Jan 2012

They need to let the gas extraction tax discussions keep dragging on until his buddies have made their money, ya know.

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
84. Oh Dear God
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:08 PM
Jan 2012

Tell them to Keep Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky in their prayers. They're gonna need it.

alp227

(31,961 posts)
85. What's wrong, progressive (D) Reps in Pennsylvania? No courage to dissent from religion?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:16 PM
Jan 2012

Obviously they can't afford to have ads all over saying &quot This rep) dissed the Bible!"

WCGreen

(45,558 posts)
92. These things are worthless....
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:13 PM
Jan 2012

A resolution means nothing...

It was a poitical ploy on the part of the GOP to get democrats on the record as hating god....

nothing more or nothng less...

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
94. If they truly want to honor the Bible, why would they "suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18)?
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:20 PM
Jan 2012

If they are going to be true to the Bible (or a Bible), why not bring back witch trials?
http://etext.virginia.edu/salem/witchcraft/

What about the biblical references to unicorns? (e.g., Psalm 92:10)

Should we look for them as well? Or were they, as some believe, killed in the flood because they were frolicking and didn't have enough good sense to get on the ark?

If there is a "national need to study and apply the teachings of the holy scriptures," yes, let's do that.

Response to Galraedia (Original post)

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
102. No it doesn't
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 05:45 AM
Jan 2012

It's a resolution. The most useful thing one could do with a resolution is use the printed copy to wipe your ass.

This is a non-issue. It's no different from declaring some month to be "Super-Duper Citizens Month" or "Toilet Paper History Month." It's nothing but political theater and should be attacked as such. Example: "Perhaps the PA legislature should take their own advice and do some work so they can earn their own bread."

104. Sign petition to repeal this illegal resolution
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 10:38 AM
Jan 2012

A petition online has been created to voice opposition to this absurd farce of legislation.

It was just created yesterday and this issue isn't getting much media play yet, so the signatures are few right now, but surely we can help change that. Sign and spread the word!

http://www.change.org/petitions/pa-house-of-reps-passed-a-resolution-declaring-2012-to-be-year-of-the-bible-let-them-know-this-is-a-violation-of-the-separation-of-church-and-state

Response to PeacefulLizard (Reply #104)

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