Outrage over corporate behavior is misplaced

[cthulu2016]

It is ludicrous to expect any publicly-traded corporation to to do the right thing and all calls for better corporate behavior are actually destructive in that they perpetuate the invalid idea that corporations are capable of weighing right and wrong.

A corporation will, and should, follow whatever course maximizes profit. A corporation will not, and should not, be concerned with technical illegality, but only with the practical effect of an action.

An illegal action is disfavored only to the degree it returns less profit. A $100 fine for making Soylent Green out of people is merely an expense in the Soylent Green manufacturing process. The fine is either high enough to make Soylent Green unprofitble or it isn't.

When customers complain to a corporation the entity makes a cost/benefit analysis of the complaints, absent any moral consideration. When corporations give to charity it is done because the action is calculated to increase profits. Period.

The whole good corporation/bad corporation thing is a game promoted by corporations themselves—a game that obscures the fact that corporate behavior is only regulated by regulation. (Some corporations exploit the market niche 'good corporation' to maximize profits, which is to be expected.)

When a corporation does a bad thing it is a matter for the government. The corporation is irrelevant to the equation. They do not have the option of good behavior unless it is profitable.

All corporate bad behavior is the fault of government. It is the government's job, and only the governmen's job, to create a structure within which certain effects of the normal and expected mechanical, ammoral pursuit of profit is limited by making certain bad behaviors too expensive to be profitable.

[Deep13]

1. Corporations pretty much are the government.

Our system of legalized bribery pretty much puts them in charge.

[ProSense]

2. When

A corporation will not, and should not, be concerned with technical illegality, but only with the practical effect of an action....All corporate bad behavior is the fault of government.

...will the absurdity of trying to justify RW arguments end: Corporations have a right to be predators and commit illegal acts. It's the government's fault that they even attempt to do these things.

You know what I think: It's your fault because this is supposed to be government for and by the people. You screwed up the government.

[cascadiance]

3. Corporate charters need to be revised to change the "profit" motive, but lobbying is WRONG!

and the way they use it to warp how government regulates (or doesn't regulate them) is where the outrage is VERY CORRECTLY placed on them. It is not the job of corporations to run the country, no matter how much they BRIBE public officials to allow them to bribe them and to codify that they are legally able to do so. That is warping what earlier laws had on the books, especially many state laws like the ones in Montana that specifically forbade this kind of behavior that our "legislative" Supreme Court chooses to override at this point.

Yes, we do need to clean up government, but we do need to go after these corporations for warping our government, which has never been in their charters to control how they are regulated.

At some point, when we do get rational and not "owned" regulatory power in the government, we need to change corporate charters that factors in the many forms of externalizing of costs that aren't factored in to balance sheets today for companies, so that when they do seek to maximize profit, they don't do it on the backs of employees, customers, and in the communities they live on through increased costs to the environment and shipping jobs overseas, etc. Once the proper framework has been restored where they can maximize profit, which limits them to just doing that for the purpose of running their business that is focused on making decent products within those confines, then we will hopefully have a healthy system where those CEOs and execs that work within it will be promoted properly and those with better ethics will likely rise to the top instead of the mafia style crooks we have in charge of many of them now that want to own both their companies and our government today.

[BumRushDaShow]

4. "All corporate bad behavior is the fault of government"

No, IMHO it's the fault of the business schools. The extremism that we see today was vomited out of Wharton, Harvard Business, and other houses of ill repute.

There have always been "robber barons" throughout history, however this country created an industry to actually magnify the greed factor among a much larger group than the past... And without a monarchy or caste system, each layer has learned to maintain the layers above because they crave getting there. And thus there is less and less the government can do because of the lack of separation between government and business and the finances now required to be in elected office.

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. No, in business school, you learn how to make a profit.

You're confusing it with sunday school.

Government charters coroprations. It is up to government to create the rules to assure that they operate in the public interest.

[KT2000]

5. Charters for corporations

used to require that their activities benefit the greater good. If it was determined that they did not - their charters could be easily revoked. This was the justification for their tax breaks.
What happened to that??

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. In general, government should have one penalty for corporations which break the law.

Capital punishment. Remove their corporate charter, and allow a competitor to take their market share.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. +1.00*10^6

Absolutely right.

Corporations only have one kind of morality: maximize shareholder value.

Moral values under which they must operate come from us, via our government.

[MadHound]

9. Except for one thing,

Corporate America has bought the American government, and runs it as a corporate subsidiary.

Hard to get the government to fill its intended role when it is as corrupt as the corporations who bought it.

[cthulu2016]

10. Very true, but consider what is being said...

A corporation will buy politicians if there is money in it. It will. There is zero possibility of corporate self-regulation.

So the point where that behavior must be curtailed is politicians refusing to be bought.

It takes two to bribe.

I cannot see any sense in expecting corporations to have higher ethical standards than public officials.

The only solution to bad corporations is better government, not better corporations.

[saras]

11. It's EVERYONE's job to raise the cost of corporate misbehavior until they cannot afford it

It doesn't matter whether the government does it, private individuals do it, foundations, nonprofits, other governments, shadowy anarchist affiliations, Granges or fraternal organizations. As you say, if it pays they will do it, so all we need to do is ensure that IT DOES NOT PAY. There doesn't have to be any sort of direct connection at all between the cost you impose on them and the specifics of how they steal from the commons, the cost just has to be higher than the profit.

And there's no way a government can do all of this job, everyone has to contribute at every opportunity. The other side of it, of course, is to see that businesses you value (not individual products, whole businesses and ownership structures) are REWARDED for their practices.

[cthulu2016]

15. Boycotts and other buying decisions such do have their place

But they are most effective within market sectors. If people boycott one brand of toilet paper that brand might change something.

To effect a lot of changes one would have to boycott all paper products, or 99% of paper products.

But yes, I agree that the people can have an effect.

[raouldukelives]

12. It's also up to the owners

That is, shareholders. All that they do is for the benefit of them. Without the support of the millions of investors they would have to be in business for themselves and thereby lose the untouchable status we have bestowed on them.
So, we can leave it up to government to solve the problem or we can take it upon ourselves to resolve not to share in the ethic-less environment of Wall St and corporate cronyism.

[gulliver]

13. I agree

It is a check-and-balance situation.

[Zorra]

14. The 1% bought the governement. It is now the government's job to represent

the 1%.

So "They're just doing their job".

All corporate bad behavior is the fault of the corporations.

It is our fault that we did not prevent the government from being taken over by corporations/banksters and global wealthy private interests.

And now, Occupy is trying to fix it.

[ProSense]

16. Exactly.

"All corporate bad behavior is the fault of the corporations. "

By the OP logic, Bank of America was right when it blamed the government for having to increase debit card fees: If the government hadn't regulated swipe fees, there would be no need to screw you.

[backscatter712]

17. Corporations these days own the government. n/t