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Sat Mar 2, 2013, 05:21 PM

Fracking on Ice

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AP: “NY Fracking Held, as Cuomo, RFK, Jr. Talk Health

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo came as close as he ever has to approving fracking last month, laying out a limited drilling plan for as many as 40 gas wells before changing course to await the findings of a new study after discussions with environmentalist and former brother-in-law Robert F. Kennedy Jr., several people familiar with his thinking told The Associated Press.

The turning point, which could delay a decision for up to a year or longer, came in a series of phone calls with Kennedy. The two discussed a new health study on the hydraulic fracturing drilling method that could be thorough enough to trump all others in a debate that has split New York for five years.

"I think the issue suddenly got simple for him," Kennedy told the AP, then went on to paraphrase Cuomo in their discussions: "'If it's causing health problems, I really don't want it in New York state. And if it's not causing health problems, we should figure out a way we can do it.'"

Kennedy and two other people close to Cuomo, who spoke to the AP only on condition of anonymity because Cuomo is carefully guarding his discussions on the issue, confirmed the outlines of the plan the governor was considering to allow 10 to 40 test wells in economically depressed southern New York towns that want drilling and the jobs it promises. The plan would allow the wells to operate under intense monitoring by the state to see if fracking should continue or expand. ……

See more at:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ap-ny-fracking-held-cuomo-rfk-jr-talk-18636918


(Note: The Good Fight continues! I should have more “news” related to this soon. -- Patrick)

61 replies, 4298 views

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Arrow 61 replies Author Time Post
Reply Fracking on Ice (Original post)
H2O Man Mar 2013 OP
livetohike Mar 2013 #1
H2O Man Mar 2013 #2
freshwest Mar 2013 #11
annabanana Mar 2013 #3
H2O Man Mar 2013 #4
CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2013 #5
H2O Man Mar 2013 #16
kohodog Mar 2013 #6
H2O Man Mar 2013 #17
cyberpj Mar 2013 #7
H2O Man Mar 2013 #18
cyberpj Mar 2013 #57
Agony Mar 2013 #8
H2O Man Mar 2013 #19
Agony Mar 2013 #24
KoKo Mar 2013 #9
H2O Man Mar 2013 #21
KoKo Mar 2013 #23
blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #10
KoKo Mar 2013 #12
H2O Man Mar 2013 #22
Mnemosyne Mar 2013 #13
H2O Man Mar 2013 #25
Mnemosyne Mar 2013 #28
H2O Man Mar 2013 #31
Wilms Mar 2013 #14
H2O Man Mar 2013 #26
bleever Mar 2013 #15
H2O Man Mar 2013 #27
hootinholler Mar 2013 #20
H2O Man Mar 2013 #29
hootinholler Mar 2013 #33
immoderate Mar 2013 #30
H2O Man Mar 2013 #32
immoderate Mar 2013 #39
Squinch Mar 2013 #34
H2O Man Mar 2013 #40
malaise Mar 2013 #35
H2O Man Mar 2013 #41
spanone Mar 2013 #36
H2O Man Mar 2013 #42
spanone Mar 2013 #46
Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #37
H2O Man Mar 2013 #43
Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #45
KoKo Mar 2013 #38
Octafish Mar 2013 #44
H2O Man Mar 2013 #47
bigtree Mar 2013 #48
H2O Man Mar 2013 #53
coeur_de_lion Mar 2013 #49
H2O Man Mar 2013 #54
coeur_de_lion Mar 2013 #61
KoKo Mar 2013 #50
H2O Man Mar 2013 #55
Me. Mar 2013 #51
H2O Man Mar 2013 #56
Me. Mar 2013 #60
Me. Mar 2013 #52
mmonk Mar 2013 #58
littlemissmartypants Mar 2013 #59

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 05:34 PM

1. Thank you H2O Man

Good news! Wish our PA Governor was more in tune with reality.

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Response to livetohike (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 05:49 PM

2. We need a new governor

in PA. No question about that.

I attended a Democratic Party breakfast this morning, and discussed plans to expand the program we've instituted in our "test case" community. We're looking to elect candidates that represent the Democratic Party & Democratic Left in more towns, cities, and counties. The next step after that will be some state positions.

I'm connecting this DU-OP on a few FB groups, which include activists from PA. Although a number of these individuals have expressed a lack of trust in Robert, and even something less than confidence in me, these types of results speak for themselves.

The "local" epidemiological study that my little group is conducting is beginning to get more serious attention from some leaders in the national environmental movement, too. On Friday afternoon, I have an appointment with the top attorney from the NRDC, to discuss what we have been documenting.

Lots of work, but it's worth it. And again, thank you for your support!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:36 PM

11. +1,000

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 06:21 PM

3. Good work!

Your updates are hugely useful to my discussions on the topic.

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Response to annabanana (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 06:36 PM

4. Thanks!

I'm glad that you & a few others are still reading my OPs.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 06:46 PM

5. I am definitely still reading your reports, my dear H20 Man!

You always have worthwhile things to say.

Thank you for the huge efforts you're making. I don't have the energy to do it.

K&R

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 01:30 AM

16. Thank you!

I appreciate that!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 06:57 PM

6. A very good development, but the fight is still far from over.

The fossil fuel industry will not go down quietly and just might take us all down with them.

Great pic, btw.

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Response to kohodog (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 12:04 PM

17. Just getting started!

I've been in a number of 20-year struggles -- the Carter case, the Richardson Hill Super Fund Site, for example. This is definitely a longer struggle than those. It won't be settled in my lifetime, but I'm honored to have the opportunity to help build the foundation that younger folks will be able to build upon.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 07:36 PM

7. You remain steadfastly (is that a word?) all over this topic and I'm grateful.

 

Glad to see RFK,Jr. there representing possibly the one publicly liberal political dynasty.

You know, I swear I saw an article several days ago stating something like the gas companies have discovered a new liquid formula that is less toxic to the environment. First I wondered if it was true, then I wondered why I hadn't heard more about it on the news, then I wondered why they can get away with 'less toxic' to the environment. Just what level of toxicity to drinking water, ground water, plants, animals and humans should we allow?

Thanks H2O Man.

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Response to cyberpj (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 12:38 PM

18. I've read similar

information, and find it curious that more attention is not given the idea: there may be much safer ways to extract gas, but there hasn't been much focus on identifying them. The reasons are self-evident -- hydrofracking allows the industry the highest, cheapest return for their investment. They literally are only interested in their profit margins, and without concern about them damage, both short- and long-term, that fracking inflicts on the living environment.

The underground gas isn't going anywhere. There is no good reason to "harvest" it unsafely. If there were research in ways to safely extract it, no one would be opposed to that ....except those seeking instant financial gratification at the expense of human health.

And, even if it were safely extracted, we need to continue research into green energy.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 12:05 PM

57. Good points. We both know that MONEY NOW is the bottom line though. It will be people

 

who will have to demand safer fluids - if really possible. I've always said the answer is to have the company officials live in the fracking zone - things would change pretty fast then!

I do believe if Republicans would let loose their hold on anything and everything Obama wants to do we would have had more job creation via research and application of green energy by now. And I try not to dream about what the world might look like today if Gore had taken election 2000.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 07:58 PM

8. One person, one crossroad, one town, one village and one community at a time

and then we win...

Thanks for the info!

It is doubtful however that RFK was the only one that had an effect on Cuomo... I believe the study referred to is the one that Geisinger is doing in Pennsylvania and NYS Health Commissioner Dr. Shah used to work at the Geisinger Center for Health Research. It is unlikely that Cuomo doesn't also know this... now if Cuomo will also tell DEC Martens to back off his threat to issue drilling permits in spite of there being no regulations, we might have a fighting chance to stop this permanently.

Cheers,
Agony

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Response to Agony (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 12:53 PM

19. Right.

That is the study (although there are other related studies underway).

Still, if only for Andrew's presidential ambitions -- and he has had a committee working on his 2016 plan for two years now -- Robert plays a key role. To say that there has been tension between Andrew and Robert on the issue of fracking would be understatement. What I can say here is that Cuomo knows that RFK Jr. has prepared a case that, if Cumo passed fracking now, would stop it immediately -- in the hour's time it would take to file -- and has assisted in the preparation of another very strong legal case. More, along with the group in the OP's photo, he would engage in highly visible civil disobedience.

Cuomo thought that his use of Robert (and he was absolutely using him) would provide him cover. It hasn't, and it won't. Thus, while you are correct in saying that it has been many people influencing Cuomo, the article is equally correct in noting that the recent communications with Robert tipped the scales.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #19)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:32 PM

24. Yup! Cuomo has made such a hash of the "process" that if he hits the go button

this WILL end up in court. On multiple fronts it appears, good to hear that RFK will file, there are others I believe.

The longer we stall fracking permits, more people learn the reality of this, then we win!

Thanks for the details, good news provides much needed spirit strengthening in this long battle. and... there are many of us ready for non-violent civil disobedience should the plutocrats and climate change deniers lurch forward.

I would hazard to guess you know about this upstate history ----->
"My Name Is Allegany County"

Thanks for being you!
Cheerio!


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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:01 PM

9. I so look for NYState to do something..that sends a MESSAGE

because it's BIG TIME here in North Carolina and we are trying..but need some help from legislation that sets a precident that will help the small band of us against this.

If NY could go against FRAKING on ENVIRO CONCERNS...it might give impetus to us here fighting it in Our States!

Thanks for keeping up the Good Fight!

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Response to KoKo (Reply #9)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 02:46 PM

21. I'm probably going

to be in NC this summer, to do some presentations on grass roots actions to stop fracking.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 03:18 PM

23. That's Great News!

Keep us posted in the State Forum...so we can meet and greet!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:13 PM

10. I don't trust Cuomo on this.

 

Watch your back, NY.

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 08:53 PM

12. True...Cuomo's Ties...are Way Back...along with Current. n/t

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 02:50 PM

22. When he was

running for governor, I had an invitation to dine with Andrew and seven others. I declined the invitation. I've had a low opinion of him, since I first became familiar with him ..... back when Mario was in office, and Chief Waterman and I had a series of meetings with the father and his staff.

Today, while I have not changed my opinion of Andrew, I suspect that it might have been better if I had accepted that opportunity. Regardless of our opinions of his character, he is in office, and so we must deal with him.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 09:57 PM

13. Needs more K&R. nt

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Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #13)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:55 PM

25. I agree,

though I am not 100% objective.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #25)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:02 PM

28. And you need a



Thanks for all you do!

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Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:13 PM

31. See post #29 .....

as it describes a bit of what I'm doing today, and this week.

I certainly do appreciate your support and encouragement. Thank you very much!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 10:55 PM

14. :) ^

 

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Response to Wilms (Reply #14)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:56 PM

26. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:06 PM

15. Soul

power.



Continued best wishes.

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Response to bleever (Reply #15)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:58 PM

27. Thank you!

I appreciate that.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 01:01 PM

20. I was just thinking last Friday

That I haven't heard from you in a while.

I'm still wondering about that package of documents that were to find their way into the press.

I certainly hope that livestock health is also a consideration in these studies.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #20)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:11 PM

29. I've been busy.

I try to check in on DU at least once a week, though.

A large publisher set me up with an agent, and I'm writing a book on these related topics: heavy industrial toxic wastes that were dumped in and around a town in upstate NY; the epidemiological study of the community, which has the highest rates of cancer in the US; and the overlap in the toxins dumped by the (military-industrial) corporation, and those used in hydrofracking. As fracking is a hot topic, they want it as soon as possible.

The corporate media has been interested in the "secret" document, but have opted not to publish it at this time. I do believe it will be featured in a book to be published soon, though. (grin)

The Cornell University study on cattle and other livestock will be a resource I'll make very good use of, too.

(Note: In my "spare" time today, I met with leaders from area teachers and social workers unions. In fact, I'm heading out to another, related meeting in a couple of minutes. I presented on "grass roots community organizing & activism," based upon some of the material from my recent "e-book" on that topic. This information & related material will be used by 1,500 people this week. These things will continue to keep me from being here as frequently as I might like to be, but the work being done is essential. In fact, it's going to spread to a number of high school and college students, in at least three meetings this week. Dang! I may be old, moldy, and feeble, but I can still rumble -- just at a slower pace than I used to!)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #29)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:24 PM

33. I wish I had the resources and talent

To raise a ruckus on your scale.

Let us know how we can help.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:12 PM

30. Glad to see you are getting some traction.

 

Cuomo is an opportunist. And I'm hoping that RFKjr isn't, but he may be like his father, who appeared opportunistic to me, when I was for Gene McCarthy.

Happy you are on the case!

--imm

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Response to immoderate (Reply #30)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:17 PM

32. Robert is a good man.

I've known him for about 25 years. In that time, we have not always agreed, nor seen eye-to-eye. (I don't always agree with myself, for that matter.) But he has never lied to me, or attempted to mislead me on anything. More, as an individual, I can say that he ranks among the most sincere and honorable human beings that I have encountered.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #32)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 09:57 PM

39. I know him mostly from "Ring of Fire."

 

He seemed OK to me, but I always have been wary.

OTH, if he is taking up your cause, and backing your findings, that is a good thing.

--imm

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:36 PM

34. Bullet dodged. Thanks for the info.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #34)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 10:58 PM

40. We won this round.

And are gearing up for the next one.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:36 PM

35. Keep o fighting Waterman

Rec

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Response to malaise (Reply #35)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 10:59 PM

41. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:37 PM

36. k&r...

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Response to spanone (Reply #36)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 10:59 PM

42. Thank you.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 4, 2013, 12:43 AM

46. thank you....... you are doing the heavy lifting

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:48 PM

37. Is this the same RFK Jr who also blocked wind energy 5 miles off the coast of the Kennedy compound?

 

The same RFK Jr who had, up until quite recently, was touting natural gas as the cleanest alternative among all fossil fuels?

Forgive me if I am not impressed.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #37)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 11:00 PM

43. You forgot Poland.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #43)

Mon Mar 4, 2013, 12:29 AM

45. No idea how Poland figures in. I'm sure it's an inside joke.

 

I stand by what I said -- RFK Jr is a hypocritical hired gun who seems to be all green until it's in his backyard ... or until the wind shifts.

A significant portion of the US and international environmental movements has decided spending more time sowing seeds of fear and less time educating themselves in science. I have no problem making it real clear where I stand.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 09:20 PM

38. kick!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 11:04 PM

44. That's nice! Very nice!

Keep it up. You and the Team are almost there.



OT: How is it you get younger as we get older, H2O Man?

Now that I think of it, we never see you and Brad Pitt in the same room.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 4, 2013, 09:11 AM

47. Ha!

These old bones are feeling every year -- heck, every month, week, and day -- of my age. And, as the photo in the OP shows, I was at the end of the line when God handed out good looks. But I do have patience; and as the Good Hurricane said, with patience, even the smallest of creatures can climb the highest of mountains.

Thank you.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 4, 2013, 10:31 AM

48. activists like you are carrying this load of knowledge to these pols

. . . it's really good to see how timely and advantageous yours and others campaigns against fracking have provided such an attractive (or opportunistic) platform for Cuomo; and hopefully others.

When you get folks to accept these concerns about groundwater and the damage to our air from released gases; and informed about the trade-offs which make the process a financial disaster, in the end, because of those environmental risks; you're really getting them to encompass with their attention all of the vital concerns related to the destruction of our planet.

Kudos to Cuomo, for choosing to put environmental concerns in front of his decision. We have Pres. Obama facing the same information about the pipeline and fracking, as well . . .

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Response to bigtree (Reply #48)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:09 AM

53. Well said.

I picked up my copy of the new Jimi Hendrix CD yesterday. Did you get one yet?

I think people with average-to-large collections will recognize 9 or 10 of the songs, which have been released in other forms previously. And those with really large collections should have a few of the "new" releases on bootleg albums, although the new "mixing" still makes the purchase worthwhile.

I was first in line ....actually, I was the line. The music store hadn't even opened the supply of free posters when I bought my copy. I did, of course, get the poster, and gave it to a friend who is in the best local rock band. Trying to encourage his group to include a couple of Jimi's songs in their concerts.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:24 PM

49. Sorry I missed this when you posted a few days ago H

Proud of you brother!!

Give 'em hell!

Nice picture too!

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #49)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:19 AM

54. Well, thank you, Arby!

Those things that I do are simply part of the responsibilities of being selected to serve as a Water Man. That's a status that our larger society doesn't recognize, and thus doesn't really understand. What I find interesting is that as I grow older (and moldier), and have far less energy to invest in this calling, that slower, reduced pace allows me -- or forces me, if you will -- to be more selective in what I attempt to do .....and sometimes that provides unexpected benefits in communicating to that larger society.

(Hey, did I tell you about the book bit?)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #54)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 10:47 PM

61. You did not tell me about the book

Please elaborate my friend.

If you only knew how much I value you. So proud.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 04:34 PM

50. H2O Man ..."Why You Don’t Frack With John Lennon’s Farm"

(Read this at NOC and didn't know if you'd seen it, so passing it along. Have you seen any celebrity influence where you are in NYS?
This article mentions Sullivan County & Catskills. I thought the article was a good read)

==========
Why You Don’t Frack With John Lennon’s Farm
Lisa Mullenneaux
Yes! Magazine / News Analysis
Published: Tuesday 5 March 2013
When fracking hits close to home, Mark Ruffalo, Debra Winger, Yoko Ono, and other big names find common ground with small towns.

“Governor Cuomo: ImaGIne There’s no FraCkInG,” read a billboard on the Major Deegan Expressway into Manhattan last October. One of the motorists who saw it may well have been Governor Andrew Cuomo, who has been under increasing pres- sure from New York state residents to ban the shale gas extraction method known as “fracking.” The billboard was the first action by Yoko Ono and her son Sean Lennon’s advocacy coalition Artists Against Fracking, which boasts nearly 200 famous members ranging from Salman Rushdie to Lady Gaga.

What spurred mother and son to organize art- ists like themselves was the threat to their Delaware County farm that sits atop the Marcellus Shale, a rock formation geologists estimate holds trillions of cubic feet of natural gas. “I have always felt lucky,” Lennon wrote in an op-ed for The New York Times, “to live on land [my father] loved dearly.” Sean Lennon’s father was, of course, the legendary musician and former Beatle John Lennon, not the first city resident to want a rural escape.

http://www.nationofchange.org/why-you-don-t-frack-john-lennon-s-farm-1362495283

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Response to KoKo (Reply #50)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:26 AM

55. You might find

this interesting: I have frequently spoken about the town of Sidney, in upstate New York. It's where the Town Supervisor Bob McCarthy made national news with his diseased attack on a tiny Sufi farm settlement (trying to force the destruction of their perfectly legal cemetery).

That Sufi settlement is on what used to be one of John & Yoko's Dream Street Farms. I used to live just down the road from it, and worked on their farm.

More, when Yoko & Sean first were finding out about fracking, Sean attended a Sidney Town Board meeting. He stood quietly at the back of the room, and went almost unnoticed. It was where Sean was introduced to some of the PA folks; Yoko and he recently were in the news when they toured the PA sites.

My sister-in-law is one of Yoko's closest friends. She and Sean are wonderful people.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 05:48 PM

51. You Know & I Know

That had you personally not persisted in getting RFKjr. involved in this, fracking would've won the day. It must be hugely satisfying to you to see such a positive result for your effort. Well done Mr. NY Congressman. That's me doing a future cast. For if you run I can't see you being defeated,

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Response to Me. (Reply #51)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:27 AM

56. I also know

not to disagree with you, when you are 100% correct.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #56)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:15 PM

60. Well You Do Have Smarts Coming Out Of Your Ears

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:35 PM

52. kick

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 01:30 PM

58. Excellent work!

You have been putting up a good fight. Sent you an email.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:29 PM

59. Kick and rec...



Love, Peace and Shelter. lmsp

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