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Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:06 AM Jan 2012

Chilling tape from Air Force One on day JFK shot just released.

This is supposed to be 43 minutes of tape that was edited out and thought lost.
CBS News)

It's been nearly a half-century since the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

But new information from that day in Dallas has just been released -- audiotape of conversations between Air Force One and Washington.

For the first time, the complete audio record of the flight back from Dallas to Washington is available to the public online, from the National Archives, for free.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57368696/chilling-tape-from-air-force-one-on-day-jfk-shot/

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Chilling tape from Air Force One on day JFK shot just released. (Original Post) Lint Head Jan 2012 OP
Thank you for the heads-up, Lint Head! Octafish Jan 2012 #1
Nice article. I read that LBJ was in the bathroom a lot. He held meetings while sitting on the john. Lint Head Jan 2012 #2
The CBS report on LeMay's whereabouts have given me a sense of vertigo... Octafish Jan 2012 #4
Thanks...Do you know of any good books on the House Select Committee on Assassinations? deutsey Jan 2012 #9
Gaeton Fonzi's 'The Last Investigation' Octafish Jan 2012 #10
Checking out some of his writings there deutsey Jan 2012 #13
Gaeton Fonzi's "The Last Investigation" is probably the best book on the HSCA. RandomKoolzip Jan 2012 #11
Thanks to both of you! deutsey Jan 2012 #12
Much of the tactical planning probably occured at "Volcano" - thanks for posting this. (nt) T S Justly Jan 2012 #15
You are most welcome, TSJ. Please check out Mr. Morrow's contribution at Spartacus Schoolnet... Octafish Feb 2012 #19
Lemay was in the thick of it. Thanks! (nt) T S Justly Feb 2012 #20
More fodder for the conspiracy theorists, I imagine. MineralMan Jan 2012 #3
43 minutes of tape were withheld for some reason. Octafish Jan 2012 #5
This is what CNN said when they reported the tapes had been released. Lint Head Jan 2012 #7
Gosh, I can't imagine why the conspiracy theorists MineralMan Jan 2012 #8
Everyone who cares about Democracy should be interested in this. Octafish Jan 2012 #14
The thing is that the JFK assassination is so overloaded MineralMan Jan 2012 #18
too much information and discussion? Gosh, let's censor it! Our silly heads will explode! librechik Feb 2012 #21
Yep. This opens another Pandora's Box of tin foil hatters. Lint Head Jan 2012 #6
Those who have believed our government over the years now tend to look nuts in the cold Romulox Jan 2012 #16
and boom goes the dynamite frylock Jan 2012 #17

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
1. Thank you for the heads-up, Lint Head!
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:15 AM
Jan 2012

I'm getting the ear goggles on.

In the meantime, background for those new to the subject:

Kennedy Military Aide: LBJ Hid in Bathroom, Cried After JFK Assassination.

Steven M. Gillon
Resident historian of the History Channel
Huffington Post

This month will mark the 46th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. A recently declassified oral history by Brigadier General Godfrey McHugh, President Kennedy's military aide on the Dallas trip, sheds new light on the critical hours after the shooting. McHugh makes startling claims about Lyndon Johnson's behavior in the wake of the assassination.

The interview with McHugh, originally conducted for the John F. Kennedy Library in 1978, remained closed for 31 years. It was finally declassified in the spring of 2009. I just happened to be working at the Kennedy Library on the day the interview was opened to the public and have used it for the first time in my new book, The Kennedy Assassination -- 24 Hours After.

After being informed at Parkland Hospital that Kennedy was dead, Johnson raced back to Air Force One, where he waited for Mrs. Kennedy and the body of the slain president, and made preparations to take the Oath of Office. Back at the hospital, the Kennedy group loaded the body into a coffin, forced their way past a local justice of the peace, and hurried back to Love Field for the long ride back to Washington.

It was standard practice for the plane to take off as soon as the commander-in-chief was onboard. Even after McHugh had ordered the pilot to take off, however, "nothing happened." According to the newly declassified transcript, Mrs. Kennedy was becoming desperate to leave. "Mrs. Kennedy was getting very warm, she had blood all over her hat, her coat...his brains were sticking on her hat. It was dreadful," McHugh said. She pleaded with him to get the plane off the ground. "Please, let's leave," she said. McHugh jumped up and used the phone near the rear compartment to call Captain James Swindal. "Let's leave," he said. Swindal responded: "I can't do it. I have orders to wait." Not wanting to make a scene in front of Mrs. Kennedy, McHugh rushed to the front of the plane. "Swindal, what on earth is going on?" The pilot told him that "the President wants to remain in this area."

CONTINUED...

Those who remember that day know the fall-out continues to the present moment.

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
2. Nice article. I read that LBJ was in the bathroom a lot. He held meetings while sitting on the john.
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:19 AM
Jan 2012

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. The CBS report on LeMay's whereabouts have given me a sense of vertigo...
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:34 AM
Jan 2012

At the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, LeMay called JFK an "appeaser" to his face.

LeMay was one of the guys, along with JCS Chief Lyman Lemnitzer and CIA director Allen Dulles, who proposed a nuclear sneak-attack on the USSR for "late in 1963."

JFK's assassination would make a perfect pretext for war. Gee. What an odd coincidence.



Did the U.S. Military Plan a Nuclear First Strike for 1963?

Recently declassified information shows that the military presented President Kennedy with a plan for a surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union in the early 1960s.

James K. Galbraith and Heather A. Purcell | September 21, 1994

During the early 1960s the intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) introduced the world to the possibility of instant total war. Thirty years later, no nation has yet fired any nuclear missile at a real target. Orthodox history holds that a succession of defensive nuclear doctrines and strategies -- from "massive retaliation" to "mutual assured destruction" -- worked, almost seamlessly, to deter Soviet aggression against the United States and to prevent the use of nuclear weapons.

The possibility of U.S. aggression in nuclear conflict is seldom considered. And why should it be? Virtually nothing in the public record suggests that high U.S. authorities ever contemplated a first strike against the Soviet Union, except in response to a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, or that they doubted the deterrent power of Soviet nuclear forces. The main documented exception was the Air Force Chief of Staff in the early 1960s, Curtis LeMay, a seemingly idiosyncratic case.

But beginning in 1957 the U.S. military did prepare plans for a preemptive nuclear strike against the U.S.S.R., based on our growing lead in land-based missiles. And top military and intelligence leaders presented an assessment of those plans to President John F. Kennedy in July of 1961. At that time, some high Air Force and CIA leaders apparently believed that a window of outright ballistic missile superiority, perhaps sufficient for a successful first strike, would be open in late 1963.

The document reproduced opposite is published here for the first time. It describes a meeting of the National Security Council on July 20, 1961. At that meeting, the document shows, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the director of the CIA, and others presented plans for a surprise attack. They answered some questions from Kennedy about timing and effects, and promised further information. The meeting recessed under a presidential injunction of secrecy that has not been broken until now.

CONTINUED...

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_the_us_military_plan_a_nuclear_first_strike_for_1963



The fact LeMay never revealed where he was on Nov. 22, 1963 is news to me. The fact the USAF couldn't find him is suspicious. The unedited AF One tape may be a watershed moment in United States history.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
9. Thanks...Do you know of any good books on the House Select Committee on Assassinations?
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:44 AM
Jan 2012

I know it concluded there was "probably a conspiracy" but I'd like to read more about what led to that conclusion.

I was a kid when the HSCA was convened and remember regularly hearing about its investigation on TV, but it's mostly gone down the memory hole since then.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
10. Gaeton Fonzi's 'The Last Investigation'
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:57 AM
Jan 2012
Mr. Fonzi was an investigator for the HSCA, working on the Cuban-CIA connections:

Gaeton Fonzi's The Last Investigation, now republished by the Mary Ferrell Foundation, is an insider's account of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, where "reality" became irrelevant compared to the need to produce a report. In this book, Fonzi tells of the several leads he developed in anti-Castro and anti-Kennedy milieu of South Florida's Cuban exiles and disgruntled CIA officers.

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/The_Last_Investigation

RandomKoolzip

(18,536 posts)
11. Gaeton Fonzi's "The Last Investigation" is probably the best book on the HSCA.
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:01 AM
Jan 2012

I'm not sure if it's in print, but it's a great read.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
12. Thanks to both of you!
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:15 AM
Jan 2012

I'm familiar with Gaeton, just never saw his book. I'll see if I can track it down.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
19. You are most welcome, TSJ. Please check out Mr. Morrow's contribution at Spartacus Schoolnet...
Wed Feb 1, 2012, 02:26 PM
Feb 2012
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=b508b3d0ef69b7bac12c6e7ff252fa1b&showtopic=10724&st=60

EXCERPT...

"At a Georgetown dinner party recently, the wife of a leading senator sat next to Gen. Curtis LeMay, chief of staff of the Air Force. He told her a nuclear war was inevitable. It would begin in December and be all over by the first of the year. In that interval, every major American city -- Washington, New York, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles -- would be reduced to rubble. Similarly, the principal cities of the Soviet Union would be destroyed. The lady, as she tells it, asked if there were any place where she could take her children and grandchildren to safety; the general would, of course, at the first alert be inside the top-secret underground hideout near Washington from which the retaliatory strike would be directed. He told her that certain unpopulated areas in the far west would be safest." --Marquis Childs, nationally syndicated columnist, Washington Post, 19 July 1961

MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
3. More fodder for the conspiracy theorists, I imagine.
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:25 AM
Jan 2012

I guess I'll watch creative speculation to see what they're making out of this audio. Certainly, they'll make something out of it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
5. 43 minutes of tape were withheld for some reason.
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:36 AM
Jan 2012

Why with the automatic "conspiracy theorists" fodder?

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
7. This is what CNN said when they reported the tapes had been released.
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:37 AM
Jan 2012

It's not something I interjected or made up.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
14. Everyone who cares about Democracy should be interested in this.
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:39 PM
Jan 2012

FWIW: Using a loaded term like "conspiracy theorists" tends to sidetrack discussion.

MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
18. The thing is that the JFK assassination is so overloaded
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:41 PM
Jan 2012

with conspiracy theory nonsense that it's almost impossible to discuss rationally any more. And this audio release will set off even more of it.

People will be fighting over the JFK assassination forever. They're still fighting about Lincoln for pete's sake. If this weren't a current story in the national news, the thread would already be over in Creative Speculation. I have no time for all the theories. It's a waste of energy.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
21. too much information and discussion? Gosh, let's censor it! Our silly heads will explode!
Wed Feb 1, 2012, 03:43 PM
Feb 2012

Thanks for the tip, Mineral Man. You are always predictable.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
16. Those who have believed our government over the years now tend to look nuts in the cold
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:50 PM
Jan 2012

light of history.

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