Churches Need To Pay Taxes

[TheMastersNemesis]

I was raised Roman Catholic and went to Catholic schools for 16 1/2 years. In my youth the Catholic Church stayed out of politics. My parents were never told who they should vote for.

Now that has all changed with the Catholic Church. Their latest anti Obama letter more than crosses the line. The Catholic Church should start paying taxes because it is in violation of the law. I quit the Church in 1967 because I realized that in many ways they were at nuts and bigoted as other religions I had encountered.

During the Kerry/Bush election Bishop Chaput (Kapoot) supposedly told Denver Catholics that it would be a mortal sin to vote for a Democrat because they were pro abortion and pro contraceptive. Today's synod of bishops will most like tell their congregations NOT to vote for a Democratic president. When you pastor tells you what to do as a matter of faith you can be excommunicated.

How interesting what double standard we have in the Catholic Church who is just so interested in protecting pedophiles. That is not the Catholic Church I was brought up in.

Now that the fundamentalist religious community has decided to pick our politicians openly they should ALL BE TAXES. Besides they should pay their FAIR SHARE of taxes in support of our fire departments and police departments and other infrastructure. They are leeches on the system. They are no better than the rich who want to pay NO taxes.

[TheDebbieDee]

1. I feel exactly the same way..............

I think that most organized religions are money-making enterprises that operate out of churches instead of offices...........

[hobbit709]

2. Madison and Jefferson thought so.

[KansDem]

3. I disagree...respectfully.

If churches are taxed, then they will believe they are part of the political process, and will become super-PACs and "corporate people." I say let them retain their "separation of church and state" status, but issue severe fines when they do become political, thereby violating the "separation of church and state" status.

The Catholic Church can pony up lots of geld for each infraction...

[TheMastersNemesis]

5. I Agree.

Your solution is one solution. Unless the political environment changes I do not see how that can happen.

The churches have already decided to enter the fray. The Catholic Church is acting like I have never seen it act before. In my youth they never told their congregations how to vote. The Church will tell their follower that it is a sin to vote for a politician who supports reproductive rights or is prochoice. Such dictums create a crisis of conscience for any Catholic practicing in good faith.

The fundamentalist movement has already indicated that it intends to violate the IRS rule in this election. They have already set up political action organizations to appose Obama. They are just waiting in the weeds to strike out.

When the Church comes out for economic equality and fairness I will support them. If they came out pro union and anti business practices in our vulture capitalism where billions of dollars are stolen from wages, the GOP would jerk their tax exemption so quickly their heads would spin.

Having been indoctrinated a Catholic for 16 1/2 I was a very strong believer until I was 23. Then I realized that I could not stay sane and believe all that crap. The Church seems to have no problem in protecting pedophiles. Priests can abuse children and nothing happens. The Church protects them from jail. If an ordinary citizen does it it is jail for a very long time.

[onenote]

11. Stop by a Unitarian Universalist Church some time

You may well hear all sorts of things, including advocacy for economic justice and workers rights. Yet, unless I missed it, they still have a tax exemption.

It saddens me when some DUers adopt reactionary positions that even the repubs haven't taken. Not all religions are the same and they certainly don't all take the same positions on issues. But its ridiculous to adopt a stance in which advocating from the pulpit to change a law or policy we don't like should be treated differently than advocating from the pulpit to change a law or policy that we do like.

[joeglow3]

19. We have a winner

Churches have always been able to advocate policy. They are forbidden from advocating for (or against) a certain candidate. How can someone say tjeu are following the separation of church and state if they are telling churches they cannot discuss behaviors they believe are right or wrong.

Also, as pointed out, I notice the original poster did not complain about churches advocating things they also believe in. That makes it pretty clear they have no rational reasoning supporting their views beyond wanting to go after only those who oppose him politically. This makes me sad because, while many of us may have some different views, I would hope we could all line up in support of our Constitution.

[LynneSin]

20. What DUers fail to recognize that with churches - most are the 99%

The 1% of churches - the megachurches that rake in millions of dollars each year would love nothing more than to put the small churches out of business.

Shame on DUers who think all churches are created alike - SHAME!!!

You'll find that most churches stay out of politics and work hard to help people in the community. You do a lump change 'tax them all' mentality many of these churches would go bankrupt leaving the mega churches the new global churches.

We need to tax any church that endorses a candidate or a party. You do that it'll only be the 1% that is impacted and not the little guys who do good.

[russspeakeasy]

4. a 70% rate sounds about right.

[onenote]

6. How does the letter read by some priests "cross the line"?

It urges Catholics to contact Congress in an effort to change the law. How is that any different than the many times in the 60s that religious leaders stood before their congregations and urged them to fight to change some other law or policy. In the 60s many of those speaking out for civil rights laws were religious leaders. In the 70s, many speaking out against the war in Vietnam were religious leaders. We can't pick and choose what speech we think is okay based on whether or not we agree with it.

You want to kill the Democratic party? Launch an attack on churches. African Americans attend church in a higher percentage than any other group in the country. They also vote Democratic in a higher percentage than any other group in the country. Go ahead and attack their tax status and see how well that works out.

Let me make clear that I don't agree with the substance of the letter that was read to some Catholic congregations. But I see nothing inappropriate about their reading that letter, just as I see nothing inappropriate (and, indeed, think it was entirely appropriate) for the Unitarian Universalist association of congreations to adopt (and publicly post) a statement urging that Congress repeal DADT.

[LynneSin]

8. Churches are allowed to support issues as long as they do not support parties or candidates

Very good post!

[tammywammy]

12. Good post.

[LynneSin]

7. I disagree - we need to better enforce separation between church and state (it's 99% here too)

And tax those that breech that violation.

There are many many many good churches out there whose only political involvement is to remind voters when election day is and perhaps be a site for election day balloting (many time churches are used on election day because they tend to have ample parking and handicap accessible).

These mega churches that feel they can endorse candidates or political parties are making it bad for smaller churches that try to survive on the donations received while still reaching out to help the local community.

I would be safe to say that it's the 1% of Churches that feel they can someone sway voters and laugh at the Separation of Church & State laws. We tax them we get a huge chunk of change. You tax the 99% that abides by the rules and you put a major hurt on not just the church but the community.

[hifiguy]

9. "Tax the churches.

Tax the businesses owned by the churches." - Frank Zappa

[lpbk2713]

10. The problem lies in getting the right people to run a bill like this through Congress.

No one who wants to be reelected would sponsor a bill that would tax organized religion let alone vote for it. It would take a group of Reps and Senators who are considering retirement just to run it through the process. The they would have to convince as many of their colleagues as they could to vote for it. And not many would want to go on record voting against organized religion and having their constituents find out about it.

The idea is the right one IMO but it will never fly.

[Southerner]

13. Obamacare is behind this.

It mandated private catholic hospitals do things they do not want to do. Obamacare pushed the Catholics to become part of the political process.

[quaker bill]

14. Good, I am glad it did

If you want public money, comply with public law.

[gratuitous]

15. No they don't

But as an acceptable prejudice at DU, you will find lots and lots of support. I've posted on this subject so many times, and had my posts deleted for the trouble thanks to our more-infallible-than-the-Pope DU juries, that I'll simply stick with my subject line.

[deaniac21]

16. You've got to be kidding

Before Vatican II they were even worse

[Quantess]

17. Sounds fair.

[joeglow3]

18. Our local Catholic diocese saves our public schools over $150,000,000 a year

I consider that a nice benefit to local property tax payers.

[meaculpa2011]

21. Back during the Koch Administration...

the mayor demanded that the Catholic schools abide by certain regulations in order to get city funding for special programs. The Cardinal called the mayor's bluff and told him to keep his money. The comptroller did a cursory analysis and discovered that it would have cost the city hundreds of millions if the archdiocese stopped providing services. Be careful what you wish for.

[joeglow3]

22. Are you replying to me?

I agree with you.

[meaculpa2011]

24. Yes.

I'm new at this. I didn't mean to be careful what "you" wish for.

Should have been more clear.

I attended public schools through 8th grade in NYC, then spent four years in a Catholic high school with a tuition of $210 per year. It was heavilly subsidized by special collections every third or fourth Sunday. I'm very thankful for both experiences.

BTW: I also received a free college education provided by the good people of New York.

[Major Nikon]

23. And to that extent they should receive a tax deduction

I believe churches should receive a tax deduction only to the extent that they perform genuinely charitable functions. If they feed the poor, they don't pay taxes on that money. If they allow the school to use their facilities, they should get a tax deduction for reasonable use.

Giving churches a tax deduction so the local pastor can buy a new Cadillac or Kenneth Copeland can buy a new jet is just nutty.