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Wed Mar 6, 2013, 03:48 PM

Two Questions

{1} Who do you think was a more honorable leader: Dick Cheney or Hugo Chavez?

{2} Why?

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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply Two Questions (Original post)
H2O Man Mar 2013 OP
hlthe2b Mar 2013 #1
spanone Mar 2013 #8
CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2013 #2
sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #3
Cleita Mar 2013 #4
el_bryanto Mar 2013 #5
Rex Mar 2013 #6
rurallib Mar 2013 #7
Cleita Mar 2013 #9
RebelOne Mar 2013 #10
jsr Mar 2013 #11
H2O Man Mar 2013 #12
mmonk Mar 2013 #13
malthaussen Mar 2013 #14
H2O Man Mar 2013 #18
malthaussen Mar 2013 #19
W_HAMILTON Mar 2013 #15
davidthegnome Mar 2013 #16
JonLP24 Mar 2013 #17

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 03:56 PM

1. For all his faults, Chavez worked to improve the lot for the poorest among his people....

and he even acted to help out the impoverished needing heating oil in the US and fuel in the Caribbean.

Cheney worked to improve the lot of Dick Cheney and a very tiny group of his most evil "friends", American people be damned. His lies devastated the lives and resources of countless Americans sent to fight an unnecessary war in Iraq and has added greatly to our financial difficulties of today.

I'd find it hard to view Cheney as an "honorable" anything. Chavez is far more the complex individual in my mind.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:18 PM

8. mr chavez cared for the poor, mr cheney nurtured the war

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 03:58 PM

2. My dear H20 Man...

Hugo Chavez was the more honorable man.

Why?

Even though Chavez certainly did dishonorable things, there is no way I would say Cheney was more honorable than he.

NO WAY.



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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:02 PM

3. Chaves without a doubt. And of course Cheney hated Chavez, which is not surprising!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:08 PM

4. No brainer, Hugo Chavez by a long shot.

Hugo tried to make his country prosperous and equal for all. Cheney destroyed what was good in this country to line his pockets and that of his cronies.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:12 PM

5. Hugo Chavez

He had a mixed but largely positive record. Obviously he had some problems as well, including some things I really didn't like in the free speech area.

Then again, who doesn't look good compared to Dick Cheney? Comparing him to Obama might give a more interesting context for discussion.

Bryant

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:14 PM

6. Are you kidding?

 

One tried to have the other 'ousted'. A few times.

Dick Cheney is the worst unofficial president we've ever had.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 04:16 PM

7. I was thinking of Christian saints the other day

and thought even the most holy had good points and bad points.
With Cheney there must be SOME good points. They are simply quite hard to find.
Maybe he had a dog he liked.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 05:05 PM

9. Cheney likes to kill animals, so I doubt he has a dog he liked.

The one good point I could think about him is that he accepted his gay daughter as she was. He did not try to change her nor did he disown her. That's the only good thing I can think of about him.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 05:08 PM

10. Hugo Chavez, of course.

Why? Even Hitler or Stalin would have been more honorable leaders than Dick Cheney.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 05:09 PM

11. Who gave free and comprehensive healthcare to everyone?

And who is getting free and comprehensive healthcare while denying it to everyone?

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 05:25 PM

12. Interesting answers

thus far. No Cheney advocates willing to speak up?

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 05:25 PM

13. Well all I know is that Cheney

was a lying sociopath in office. I do not know how much Chavez lied or was dishonest. I do know the US tried to whip up opposition to overthrow him for economic gain for multi-national corporations. But that is the history of our country and the nations to our south.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 05:32 PM

14. Harder to answer than one might think.

Since I know neither man personally, it is difficult to assess them in terms of personal honor. Obviously, as politicians they both would lie, cheat, and steal to advance their agendas, so the only question there would be to whom, and how often. Given the fallout of Mr Cheney's lying, cheating, and stealing as contrasted with the fallout of Mr Chavez's, if we wish to equate "honor" with some Millsean estimate of "the greatest good for the greatest number," then Mr Chavez wins that one hands down.

Ultimately, that is how I would have to call it, under a very specific notion of political "honor" which seeks to evaluate the question "who benefits?" Mr Chavez robbed from the rich to give to the poor, and Mr Cheney robbed from the poor to give to the rich, and waged wars to do so even more. As I am of the poor and not the rich, naturally Mr Chavez seems the more honorable man.

Certainly Mr Chavez had problems typical of many rulers of Latin American countries: poverty, colonialism, militarism, ethnic inequality... the list goes on. And certainly he ruled a country in a region where coups and instability are the rule rather than the exception, and thus resorted to quite a lot of repression here and there in order to keep the boat afloat. In the context of a vision of ideal democracy, that sucks. In the context of regional history, more-or-less par for the course. Whereas Mr Cheney was privileged to rule in a political climate of stability and traditional freedom, and betrayed many of the principles of the constitution he swore to protect and defend to further his agenda. In that respect, I think he may be evaluated as rather more dishonorable than otherwise. And in light of the fact that he used every trick in the book to avoid serving his own country in time of war, and then 40 years later sent the rising generation into an endless bloodletting, I think his honor is tarnished even more.

In sum, while it is difficult to find in those actions of Mr Chavez of which I am aware any particular taint of unusual dishonor for his position, in the case of Mr Cheney, such taints are prominent. Now answer me one: why do you ask?

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:46 PM

18. For the fun of it.

I like fun. It's ....well, fun to have fun.

Why did you ask?

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 01:56 PM

19. To quote Linus van Pelt:

"In order to find out."

I wondered why you had chosen such an... odd juxtaposition of characters to compare. It's kind of like comparing Castro and Nixon.

Hmmm, come to think of it, asking that question about Castro and Kennedy might be pretty fun, too!

Oh, and congratulations!

-- Mal

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 05:33 PM

15. Two Answers

{1} Hugo Chavez.

{2} Because he's not Dick Cheney.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 07:13 PM

16. Chavez.

Why? For simple reasons, when it comes right down to it. He stood up to the lying crooks known as Bush and Cheney. He mocked Fox news, he helped American families heat their homes. Cheney was only ever really interested in one thing - promoting the neocon agenda and making more money - okay, I guess that's two things, but you get the point.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 07:16 PM

17. Easy

Hugo

For one, he didn't transfer millions of taxpayer funds to enrich himself and companies such as Haliburton.

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