all I can tell you about Detroit is those complaining have never worked there

[backwoodsbob]

I could give you dozens...hell..HUNDREDS of instances of what a nightmare Detroit was to deal with.
NO company wanted to deal with that city.
The home inprovement company I worked for would have to pay 5 times as much to do work in that city if we were lucky enough that they either didnt lose the application or couldn't come up with the paperwork to issue a work permit.

We were lucky if 50% of the work permits we applied for got issued and if they did it just meant we had a good chance that we would be visited by an inspector who had to be bribed to allow us to keep working.

My fathers company went through the same and both companies eventually decided on a strict no work in detroit policy.

NO ONE but detroit can be blamed for detroits problems

[aristocles]

1. I agree with you.

I was born in Detroit of 2nd generation immigrants who came from Sicily and Poland. Both side of the family served during World War I and World II, Korea, and Vietnam They started successful businesses in Detroit during its boom years. After returning from Europe after World War II my father, an engineer, started a company. Even then it was so difficult to deal with the city government that he decided to pick up stakes and leave Detroit forever. We still have family there. We don't see them often. It's too dangerous and too stressful.

[michello]

2. Ok well I currently live in Detroit now!

I was raised here went away to college and am now back..
I have a right to complain damn it! I don't appreciate my vote being overturned and having an Efm who's had his own financial problems coming in here.
This is undemocratic, but hey, maybe Snyder can bring Detroit back like he did Ponitac or Flint Michigan..Have anyone seen the progress from those two cities after nearly four years of an emergency financial manager? Well I have and guess what, there is no progress in fact they are in worser conditions now than before. So please spare me..When we get someone in Detroit (democratically elected) who will make these business owners pay taxes on all of those abandoned warehouses and property that been sitting there taking up space and being a total eyesore for years and years while they've hightailed their asses to the suburbs then maybe we can get some progress in my city.

I can't with these I use to live in Detroit years and years ago so now I know what's happening today posts.
What the hell is the use of voting if it doesn't mean shit?!

[aristocles]

3. Part of the problem is that today you can only vote for the corrupt machine politicos.

But hey, Detroit was always pretty corrupt. Purple Gang, The Detroit Partnership, Hamtramck gangs. It has finally become too much. Cities don't live forever, and sometimes they die a slow lingering death, becoming more and more irrelevant.

[backwoodsbob]

4. why should a company pay taxes on a company they have abandoned?

I think that is the point.
Companies left the cities in droves and now the city want's them to pay taxes on places they USED to run.The city want's all the suburbs to pay them a tax for being near detroit.It's a joke.

That city needs to quit looking for a handout and start looking at it's problems.

They were given 200,000,000 in an enterprise zone and so mismanaged it the feds asked for there money back.

That city is a disaster

[theKed]

5. The company needs to pay tax

On property that they have ownership of. If the company is dead, there's no cash flowing through it, obviously no taxes are going to be generated. But somebody holds the title for that land, and taxes need to be paid, no matter what they are doing with it. That is a big big problem in detroit's finances. Property taxes are not a handout, they are revenue the city is owed, and corporations all too often feel comfortable walking away from.

[badtoworse]

6. If you don't pay taxes, the property is foreclosed upon.

I would assume that happened a long time ago. If that's true, then the city owns the property. If the city did not foreclose, then the question is why not?

[HiPointDem]

80. If the property wasn't owned free & clear, the BANK owns it after a foreclosure. And BANKS, BIG

BANKS, are the biggest non-payers of property taxes in Detroit.

Big banks like Wells Fargo.

And after banks like WF don't pay taxes for 3 years, the properties are auctioned off by the city for pennies on the dollar.

[badtoworse]

93. Same end result - the city winds up owning the property...

And no taxes get paid.

[HiPointDem]

94. Multinational banks are the biggest non-payers of taxes in Detroit. The same banks who made

bank in the subprime mortgage bubble, then got bailed out by the feds to the tune of over $14 TRILLION.

They stole people's homes via fraud, kicked the people out, took the properties and didn't pay their taxes, and now the city will auction them off to developers for cut-rate prices.

Ethnic and class cleansing by design.

[badtoworse]

98. That makes no sense as a business strategy

They lost money when people defaulted on the mortgages and got stuck with worthless property that the city will wind up owning.

[HiPointDem]

104. the finance sector didn't lose. and the banks got bailed out. see how that works?

[badtoworse]

105. What does that have to do with the decision to walk away from the properties?

[HiPointDem]

106. the entire *point* of stealing other people's property is to make it available cheap for your peeps.

[EC]

7. Not just corporations

are the problem. All the foreclosed homes too. The banks walked away form them after foreclosing and kicking out the families. The banks never changed ownership so the taxes are being billed to the owners that were kicked out. The banks should be held responsible for this. And if I were one of those families I'd be moving back into the home.

[theKed]

10. Those are some of the corporations I mean

Sorry, I skipped right over the part where some others would try to put the onus on the previous owners and move right to the part where we realise it has to come from the banks themselves who took ownership from the people that lived there.

[notadmblnd]

28. Property taxes follow the house, not the owner

If the property has been walked away from, the bank becomes responsible for the taxes. If the banks fail to pay, the city takes possession. If the property is sold, the money goes to the city for the back taxes.

[EC]

34. The bank walks away without

changing ownership. So the owner still owns it but doesn't know it, until the city goes after them for taxes and water. I think it was on Andrea Mitchell's show that there was a lawyer for the city talking about it.

[notadmblnd]

42. if the banks don't pay, the property goes to the city

Banks That Don't Pay Taxes: Wells Fargo Lost At Least 191 Properties To The Tax Auction

Thanks to data pulled by the Why Don't We Own This? crew, we have a list of the property owners that lost the most property to Wayne County for unpaid taxes this year. The list is organized by property owner name as recorded in the Detroit assessors' dataset. So at times these are entered incorrectly, or one company has several different names. In any case it is the best estimate we have.

For a property to end up for sale by Wayne County in the online bidding system, taxes need to be unpaid for three years. As it turns out, the bank-owned properties were some of the worst offenders when it came to not paying Wayne County.


http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2012/10/lots-of-bankowned-properties-ended-up-in-the-tax-auction.php

[EC]

58. I wondered if many of these properties had

escrow accounts to pay the taxes and insurance with the mortgage holders. When I was in Home owners insurance there were quite a few banks that were not paying the taxes or insurance with the escrow accounts and I would have to call the owners to call their mortgage companies to get them to pay out the payments. I wondered at the time if that was wide spread and worried that the ones that didn't have a secretary call them and tell them did. Were there owners losing their insurance and their property for non payment of taxes and insurances due to the lax mortgage companies not doing their job. Now I realize it was likely because they didn't know who held the mortgage.

[HiPointDem]

81. Big banks are the biggest non-payers of property taxes in Detroit.

[michello]

8. Thank you!

[Union Scribe]

52. "quit looking for a handout and start looking at it's problems"

If I type that into Google, how many hits do you think I'll get at right wing sites?

[navarth]

69. Good for you, michello

Keep representin' The D.

[Nye Bevan]

9. Thanks for the first-hand experience (nt)

[IdaBriggs]

11. Detroit is a disaster and it was made by the people running things.

Here is a link to 1,844 homes that are UNDER $20,000 --

http://www.zillow.com/homes/detroit,-mi_rb/#/homes/for_sale/Detroit-MI/house,apartment_condo_type/17762_rid/0-20000_price/0-71_mp/42.466525,-82.85923,42.238685,-83.338509_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/

And another link to the 1,228 that are UNDER $10,000 --

http://www.zillow.com/homes/detroit,-mi_rb/#/homes/for_sale/Detroit-MI/house,apartment_condo_type/17762_rid/0-10000_price/0-35_mp/42.466525,-82.85923,42.238685,-83.338509_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/

"Property tax" = Give Me A Break.

And let us not even TALK about the 50% graduation rate.

FIFTY PERCENT. No one who wants their child to have a future would roll those dice.

[YarnAddict]

78. That is so sad.

Some of those homes could be so beautiful, if only someone would care enough to fix them up.

[IdaBriggs]

102. It is sad, but you can't just fix up one house on a street and

expect to live there safely. You have to build up a neighborhood.

And if you build up a nice block, but one block over is a war zone, then your property becomes a target for the thieves and vandals who will try to take what you have, unless you protect it with bars on your windows, which means you don't have a "neighborhood" but instead have a "fortress mentality".

If "entrepreneurial spirit minded" young people only sees drug dealing and criminal activity as viable business opportunities...(shudder)...

If the sound of gunfire is so commonplace that your children don't even duck, and more than a dozen children in a classroom of forty have seen a bullet ridden body while they are in elementary school....(shudder)....

Without minimizing the events of Newtown, the children of Detroit have been dying from gunfire for years. I realize other low income large cities have this same problem - Chicago! - but it just isn't right!

[YarnAddict]

108. It isn't right

and it hurts my heart that any children have to grow up that way.

Can't imagine how to even begin to solve the problems. every generation just seems to feel more and more powerless to change things, and so the problems just get worse and worse.

[YarnAddict]

111. There should be a Habitat for Humanity-type

organization that could buy up all the houses in an area and fix them up. Same concept--sweat equity. Give people an opportunity to own a home, save some beautiful houses, and clean up the area, all at the same time.

[HiPointDem]

79. The biggest property tax non-payers are BANKS. BIG BANKS.

[michello]

12. Lol,

Last edited Mon Mar 25, 2013, 06:17 PM - Edit history (1)

I think that President Obama should send in an emergency manager to oversee the State of Michigan and to hell with who the people voted in as governor. Everyone knows that Detroit is not in good shape, but again, history has shown with the emergency manager appointed in Flint and Pontiac, it hasn't produced any results.
what do you think Snyder is going to do? And after answering that question riddle me this: Why won't Snyder pay back the 200million that the state owes Detroit that he has publicly said he will not pay back?

[KamaAina]

29. DUzy!!

Welcome to DU!

[michello]

33. Hey Kama Aina!

Thank you for welcoming me, but I have been a lurker since the site started after the 2000 selection of Shrub. I am so surprised how some of these so-called progressives on this site are standing behind this crap. If Mr. Orr(the emergency manager) has a plan on how to help Detroit I'm all for it, but he needs to go through the political process like every other person and run for office.

[KamaAina]

37. You got it!

One constructive suggestion is that Mayor Bing should have been named the emergency manager. At least he was elected to try and bring about reform.

[trixie]

32. You are simply AWESOME!

I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HiPointDem]

117. hell, why not appoint an emergency manager to run the whole country, since emergency managers

are evidentally super-duper-smart and astute?

there's corruption all over and nobody's doing anything about it! we're in debt and we have high crime and unemployment. we need an emergency manager, damn it!

[Puzzledtraveller]

13. how dare you backwoodsbob

check your reality at the door, it's not welcome in fantasy land.

[ieoeja]

14. It is now official: DU is arguing Facism versus Democracy.

With a lot of DUers coming out in favor of Facism.

Don't try Godwining my ass either. Elected officials were just replaced by an unelected businessman. This is *the* very definition of Facism. And you support it.

Congratulations. You just made out nuted the fucking Tea Baggers.

[myrna minx]

15. It's rather remarkable, isn't it??

We can't have democracy get in the way of big business!

[Recursion]

16. How about when Democracy gets in the way of basic government?

If city workers don't let work orders go forward without bribes, and the city government refuses to do anything about it, the city government does have to go. It happened in DC, too, and we're much better off for it.

[ieoeja]

21. I am sure he will get the trains running on time. n/t

[aristocles]

22. Careful...creeping Godwinism!

[ieoeja]

25. It's not paranoia when people really are out to get you.

And it's not Godwinism when it really is Facism.

You can not get any more Facist than centralized government taking control of local government from locally elected officials and handing it to a businessman with no convictions, not even allegations, of illegal activities by the elected officials.

Facism is the marriage of government and business. Can we even point to an example of that in pre-WWII Italy that is any more blatant than what has just occurred to Detroit?

[Bay Boy]

54. If city workers have taken bribes

then the IRS needs to come in and collect taxes from them.

[aristocles]

18. Sorry, can't find your definition of fascism in any dictionary. n/t

[Javaman]

60. Websters.

fas·cism
noun \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\

Definition of FASCISM

1 often capitalized: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

[backwoodsbob]

40. it has nothing to do with fascism

it's reality.
Not ONE SINGLE major grocery store has been located in Detroit for YEARS.Think about that.Walmart will locate in every podunk town in the country but they wont locate in a city of 750k people....neither will Kroger...or Meijers...or Farmer Jack.
Pretty much EVERY company has moved out....think about that....Detroit is so bad to deal with NO major company will locate there even though there are 750,000 people there.THAT is the reality of that city.

That city is the worst city I have ever seen to deal with.Schools were doing without basic supplies in the 90's but the members of the board of education all had chauffeur driven limo's.They can't keep the streetlights on or keep the garbage trucks running but the council thinks keeping half the police force in there neighborhoods while abandoning places like palmer Park or Cass Corridor is perfectly ok.

I have SO MANY bad experiences with that city.The bad part is I LOVE that community and want to see it succeed.I lived there for 21 years and would move back tomorrow if the wife would go,,,but there is no chance I could talk my wife into moving into a situation like that.

That city has been in denial for 40 years.The taxes and regulatory costs in that city were and are through the roof and yet the city has the worst services in the entire metro area.
In the early 80's the situation was already bad and people were grumbling and many were moving.Then mayor Coleman Young famously said those who didn't like it could *hit 8 mile*.....and everyone who could did.
The situation has only gotten worse since then.

I don't give a shit who takes Detroit over.It can't be any worse than the status quo. That city is in ruins.

We used to love to go to a restaurant in Detroit called sinbads...a nice little place.....but you had to drive by literally HUNDREDS of abandoned and burned out houses to get there...we finally quit going.It is the same all over that city.My favorite restaurant in detroit was lelli's...they are gone...along with the 1942 chophouse,,,and the London chophouse...and every other good restaurant in the city.......all gone because my favorite city in the world was run into the ground by it's mayors and council and the entrenched political machine there.

I LOVE Detroit.I want the people there to have a chance again.It won't happen if the current situation is allowed to stay.

[IdaBriggs]

43. The infant mortality rate due to the food desert issue alone is staggering.

Detroit doesn't currently have a Public Health Department - instead, it has a non-profit that took over the duties of Public Health. Fortunately they are good people, but it is absolutely insane.

And Lelli's moved to Auburn Hills. http://local.yahoo.com/info-16268030-lelli-s-inn-auburn-hills

[backwoodsbob]

45. Yeah last time I was in Detroit I took took the family there

great restaurant.

[navarth]

68. You are incorrect in multiple ways

Detroit is getting a Whole Foods. I don't think you know about any of the positive things that are happening there. You certainly devote a lot of energy towards bashing a city that you claim to love.

Every good restaurant in the city is gone??? How interesting....how long have you been living in the backwoods? I could name dozens of great places to eat in The D. You are BADLY misinformed.

I don't know you, and you might be sincere, but please allow me to disabuse you: there are TONS of great places in The D. You need to get reacquainted.

Does Detroit have problems? You betcha. Are they caused by the people that live there? To some extent. Are you painting a complete and comprehensive picture of Detroit? NO fucking way.

If the Will Of The People can be ignored in my beloved Detroit, it can happen elsewhere. Beware what you wish for.

[FarCenter]

83. The Honey Bee on Bagley is a great grocery.

[backwoodsbob]

103. I DO love that city

Saying a whole foods....ONE store in a city of 750k people misses the point.If we went by the walmart model of putting a store in every podunk town of 20k plus they should have like 30 walmarts and 10 meijers and several Lowes and Best buys and on and on and on...yet this hasn't been the case for MANY years.The root cause has to be looked at or that city will never come back

[navarth]

107. I just mentioned Whole Foods as one example

a simple google search for 'Detroit grocery stores' will show how many there are. If you care Detroit so much you might think before you post negative comments about us. I don't disagree about looking at root causes but you paint an inaccurate picture of a wasteland where nobody can live. This is bullshit. Do some studying. Spend some time there for crissakes. There are tons of great things going on in The D that you seem to be unaware of. I don't suppose you've ever eaten in MexTown, Greektown, Corktown MidTown, all literally bursting with great eateries. You mention Lelli's which was/is a fine restaurant that was located in the Cultural Center/MidTown area where I had the pleasure of living for 3 wonderful years, and still boasts several great restaurants, many of the brand new. Lelli's was by NO MEANS the only restaurant in the area. Have you ever lived in Detroit? I have. In 3 different places. I loved it, and I will love it again when I move back.

If you indeed are a sincere Detroit lover as I am, please don't post all this about no restaurants (BULLSHIT) and no grocery stores (BULLSHIT) and whatever else you imagine. None of it is helpful. Keep it real, stick to what's REALLY a problem. Please.

[1gobluedem]

82. I go to Sindbads often

You drive down one street that's been partially gentrified to get there and back up another that's the same. Both are right off Jefferson. What kind of weird route do you take that goes past hundreds of burned out and abandoned houses?

[superpatriotman]

121. It's the 1940 Chophouse, Bob

Worked there in college. Also the Whitney, Van Dyke Place, etc.

[caraher]

122. Your history is a bit mangled

Coleman Young's famous "hit 8 mile" quote was NOT directed toward critics of the city and came at his 1974 inauguration:

"I issue a warning to all those pushers, to all rip-off artists, to all muggers: It’s time to leave Detroit; hit Eight Mile Road! And I don’t give a damn if they are black or white, or if they wear Superfly suits or blue uniforms with silver badges. Hit the road."

Of course, the city was badly mismanaged for decades and very corrupt, but it was also bled dry by white flight. A must-read book on the subject of how Detroit came to where it was when Young took office is Thomas Sugrue's "The Origins of the Urban Crisis." Racism went a long way toward dooming a once-great city. I feel a bit like a refugee, even more so on the rare occasions when I do return there.

[Union Scribe]

48. Yep.

The masks slip sometimes, and praising disaster capitalism and anti-democratic Republican takeovers is definitely one of those times.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. agreed

[michello]

19. This site is still

called Democratic underground with less democrats I see.

[Snotcicles]

20. It will end up being a land grab for the rich. nt

[WCGreen]

30. What land....

Most of the land that has been abandoned is in areas where there are contaminated industrial sites that have never been mediated or even identified.

Detroit, like Cleveland and other rust belt cities, embraced unfettered capitalism which resulted in cutting as many costs as they could which, of course, means pollution.

There are places here in Cleveland that will never be decontaminated.

I am sure that is the same in Detroit.

[etherealtruth]

39. Without doubt

The urban gardens scare the hell out of me.

On top that (contamination) much of the available land is not contiguous

[putitinD]

77. I think that is the whole plan

[dkf]

23. Does the average resident know what a nightmare the city is to deal with?

[Starry Messenger]

24. I have plenty of leftist Detroiters on my Facebook list.

They are all fucking pissed about Snyder ruling by fiat and are fighting this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. With all the problems real or imagines

You are arguing for government by fiat and fascism...really.

[gollygee]

27. If your elected leaders are bad

You elect different leaders. The answer isn't to bypass the democratic process.

[NWHarkness]

31. Have you ever heard of Block Busting? Redlining?

"NO ONE but detroit can be blamed for detroits problems"

That statement is stunning in it's ignorance.

Unscrupulous businesses have been looting Detroit since the 60s, while politicians from the suburbs and up north practiced a policy of "benign neglect" by the state government that allowed it to go on.

[Bay Boy]

57. Sadly it's been ignored by

Democrat governors like Granholm and Blanchard as well as Republican governors like Snyder and
Engler

[NaturalHigh]

35. Yeah, I'm not shedding any tears for Detroit.

When any city is that corrupt, it's bound to sink.

[Blue_Tires]

62. So that means they are beyond redemption?

I'm guessing the OP has been in the backwoods for awhile, because for every Detroit corruption story he has, I've got three for Atlanta, ten for D.C., and fifteen for Providence....And I don't see anyone cheerleading for their demise...

[navarth]

70. Thanks for your constructive input

You can stick it where it does the most good

[etherealtruth]

36. Detroit is definitely "F"ed up

I do a lot of work in the City and it is definitely "F"ed up ... my job requires to gather info from city departments and frequently work closely with city representatives ... it can be a nightmare ... however ... I treasure the right to vote. Disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of American voters sickens me.

[bluestate10]

109. Is it much worse than South Carolina?

If federal money from other states is cut off, South Carolina would become a desert in a matter of a generation, or will be an unsafe place to live as the have not's take from the have's, peacefully or through violence.

Detroit can improve. I am disappointed that Dave Bing couldn't turn the city around. The city needs elected officials that work hard every day to turn the city around and who are willing to make tough choices. Homes that are abandoned, buildings that are abandoned should be torn down and playing fields or urban farms put in their place, with all the property policed to prevent a few parasites from making a hell for decent people that work hard and are trying to lead productive lives. Detroit's problem is that too many elected leaders of the past and present abandoned their responsibility to the city, allowed city departments to hire some workers that didn't work, not all, but some. Detroit doesn't get lavish federal dollars sent to them to cover incompetence like South Carolina does.

[KamaAina]

38. California also has lots of rules, regulations and red tape

though not nearly as much corruption.

Following michello's superb suggestion upthread, shouldn't Obama appoint an emergency manager who can circumvent all those pesky labor and environmental laws we have?

[BlueCheese]

41. It's not democratic, but it's not fascism.

In general, I think a municipality should be allowed to run itself, but what's happening in Detroit isn't illegal, even if it is distasteful.

As I understand it, states have Constitutional protections against federal overreach, but states are pretty much allowed to run local governments as they wish. The only powers that city and county governments have are those given to them by the state.

[Union Scribe]

46. You don't get to take democracy away

just because you don't like what people have done with their votes. Can't believe I have to explain this on DU...

[IdaBriggs]

47. Um, yes, yes you can. There is a Supreme Court case going on about it right now.

Citizens of the State of Michigan VOTED against marriage equality (for example).

Hopefully the Supremes will make sure that MINORITY RIGHTS are respected.

The same thing is going on in the City of Detroit. The rights of its citizens to BASIC SERVICES have been disrespected: Education (50% high school graduation rate), Emergency Response (Broken Down Fire Trucks & Ambulances), and Corruption (see public officials in jail).

If it was a TEMPORARY problem, the "system" should have repaired itself; instead it has become entrenched, and someone needs to clean it up.

Is this the Magic Bullet Solution? I don't know, but it is worth a shot.

When you have to close down your PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENT because you can't afford to pay for it, you have toppled over into insanity. I don't like the "emergency manager" solution, but I like IGNORING the problem even less.

[Union Scribe]

50. Yeah, use that as an excuse to destroy voters' rights

Your capitulation to and apologizing for a Republican privatization takeover is pathetic, and so are your tactics in doing it.

[IdaBriggs]

53. NOTHING is being privatized that I am aware of -- and your ignorance

of the situation / knee jerk response is part of the problem.

The Detroit Machine was solidly BLUE for decades, and therefore the corruption was completely ignored.

When Democrats were in charge in Lansing, they left things alone so they could keep getting elected. When Republicans were in charge in Lansing, they left things alone because they didn't give a shit / payback.

This was a CRIME against the citizens, and the results have pretty much DESTROYED the city.

Detroit looks like Baghdad AFTER we bombed it to the ground, and has for the last forty years. When you cross the bridge to Windsor, everything is beautiful. When you cross over Eight Mile, the neighborhoods are nice.

Fifteen years ago I was in Detroit for a bachellorette party when the bride's purse was snatched. She went chasing after the guy, and I went chasing after her. Fortunately, two gentlemen stopped her before she ran into "the dark" where the street lights STOPPED. Later, we went with the police hoping to find the purse (assuming the thief emptied it), and saw mounds of trash piled nearly ten feet, and rats bigger than cats that didn't *move* when the police honked their horn as we drove through the alleyways. It was surreal. AND IT HASN'T GOTTEN BETTER in the fifteen years since.

NOBODY should have to live in neighborhoods like that, and the fact they've been ignored this long is ABSOLUTELY SHAMEFUL.

[Union Scribe]

56. Yes I DO have a kneejerk reaction against Republican disaster capitalism

You even ADMIT that the motherfuckers ignored Detroit into a disaster. But NOW you want to give them the chance to come in and, what, out of the goodness of their black hearts help out the people? Are you nuts?

You're putting your trust in the rightest of the right wing, who passed Koch legislation by basically filling in "Michigan" on the samples given to them. That's craven bullshit, and the people of Detroit you and Snyder claim you care so much for know it.

[IdaBriggs]

59. The previous governor was a Democrat, and she ignored it, too.

This was allowed to happen over four decades, and we've had BOTH in office (all ignoring Detroit for different reasons).

I have issues with a lot of Snyder stuff - the union thing alone gets my blood boiling! - but at least he is TRYING to do something.

Trust him? HELL NO! But I will give him credit for taking on an IMPOSSIBLE project.

We are in the middle of a FUCKING DISASTER in Detroit, with an EIGHTEEN PERCENT INFANT MORTALITY RATE. (That is 18 per 1000; it is just how they do it.) FIFTY PERCENT of the students DON'T GRADUATE, and if you call because someone has an emergency, they will DIE if you wait for an ambulance.

I do not give a fig if you think we should keep doing what HASN'T BEEN WORKING. I *EXPECT* that for certain things (including the health and welfare of children, which is a passion of mine) *EVERYONE* will chip in and help out.

I am working on an initiative to help decrease the infant mortality rate in Detroit and Chicago. I don't care who you vote for - I want those children TO LIVE.

Snyder is trying. That is ten steps ahead of the last FIVE governors (Dem and Rep) we have had in Michigan. It is a thankless task, and he will get ZERO votes for it. (Seriously - Detroit is True Blue.) But I do think he is doing the right thing, and I think his "emergency manager" will be the political cover that is needed for the Non-Corrupt folk to Clean House. They will be able to "protest" the ouster of the problem people, and hopefully get things turned around.

In the meantime, if you have $7K, you can come buy an abandoned house in one of the neighborhoods. We have entire city blocks with two occupied houses - heck, we've got some you can pick up for $1K.

No one is trying to steal Detroit - at the moment, you can't even give it away!

[HiPointDem]

86. you don't seem to know much about detroit for someone who supposedly lives there.

The Grosse Pointe Woods investor has quietly spent two decades amassing 1,152 parcels in Detroit, city records show. Most are barren lots and empty buildings picked up for $500 or so apiece at tax foreclosure sales. The city says many are so dilapidated that Kelly's firms owe $100,000 from 139 blight violations since 2005.

Williams called Kelly a "scavenger" who preys on the "carrion" of Detroit, but the city soon may have no choice but to do business with him and other speculators. Kelly's companies have land in every corner, uniquely positioning him to be a player — or impediment — that could drive up the price of land in Mayor Dave Bing's Detroit Works Project to reshape the city.

Kelly is far from alone. A Detroit News investigation found more than 5,000 city parcels are owned by 10 private landowners and their companies.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20110203/METRO01/102030395

Staten Islanders Are Buying Up Cheap Detroit Property

S.I. Devel. Co. LLC swooped into Detroit in 2011 and bought a ton of properties from Wayne County that were in foreclosure as well as properties from private owners. A quick (not entirely comprehensive) search indicates that they owe at least $25,000 in back taxes all told and $6,606 on the Saint Rita alone. But if you are feeling generous, you can take into account they have not owned many of these places for a whole year yet and may not have gotten the chance to take care of those bills.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2012/03/the-staten-islanders-buying-up-detroit-property.php


Rock Ventures’ Z-shaped parking garage and retail

Rock Ventures, headed by Quicken Loans Founder Dan Gilbert, is building a 535,000-square-foot, Z-shaped parking garage and retail development that will zig zag from the corner of Broadway and East Grand River to the corner of Gratiot and Library. About 33,000 square feet will be dedicated to street-level retail. He reiterated that while there is interest from major national retailers, he wants development to be calculated and "done right." The Z-shaped project is scheduled to be complete in December 2013. In 2012, Rock Ventures acquired eight buildings totaling 630,000 square feet of commercial space, including five just before the end of the year. The latest purchases, including a residential building, bring Rock Ventures’ downtown Detroit real estate investments to 15 buildings totaling 2.6 million square feet of commercial space, and three parking structures for a combined 3,500 parking spaces.

The David Whitney Building

The Broderick Tower and The Auburn were seen as two successful developments in Downtown and Midtown, respectively - two areas where demand for housing has not been able to keep pace with development.

Former Michigan State University and Los Angeles Lakers basketball star Earvin "Magic" Johnson, former Detroit Deputy Fire Commissioner Marvin Beatty and Joel Ferguson have submitted redevelopment plans for the 162-acre former state fairgrounds property to the state Land Bank Fast Track Authority. The trio's plans, which are now subject to state and local boards' approval, call for 500,000 square feet of retail and housing at the site...

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2013/01/developing_detroit_five_major.html

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2013/01/developing_detroit_five_major.html


Whole Foods Detroit Store Opening In Midtown On June 5

The upscale store specializing in natural foods broke ground in May of last year, with some help from the city -- Whole Foods has received $4.2 million in tax credits and incentives. They're also look for people to stock the shelves, about 75 new employees in all.

Though the Whole Foods opening has been cause for excitement among some Detroiters looking for additional food buying options, it's not the only grocery store to open lately. Independent grocer Ye Olde Butcher Shoppe opened last year, nearby on Woodward Avenue, and two Meijer stores are in development within city limits.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/01/whole-foods-detroit-store_n_2788935.html

Gilbert Buys Woodward Avenue's Brick-Hurling Vinton Building

Detroit Monopoly master Dan Gilbert has struck again! His latest acquisition is the Albert Kahn-designed Vinton Building, located just south of the First National Building (which he also owns). Featuring Woodward Avenue retail frontage on the bottom and residential space above, the Vinton is exactly what Gilbert is shopping for...

http://detroit.curbed.com/

Gilbert and Friends Unveiling a Big Retail Secret on Thursday

Details are sparse, but it would appear as though Dan Gilbert is convening a meeting/gathering at the City Theatre this Thursday focusing on "Woodward Corridor Place-making and Retail Strategy." The guest list features several big players in new Detroit development, including Detroit Economic Growth Corporation prez George Jackson. Crain's is hearing that it's an unveiling of "Plans for a creative and distinctly Detroit development of Woodward Avenue retail and the activation of public spaces, sidewalks and streets along the corridor."

http://detroit.curbed.com/


"Emerging!": Forbes Throws Downtown Detroit a Bone

Just after labeling Detroit "America's most miserable city," good ol' Forbes is here again to arbitrarily rank the city using the same old stock photographs. This time, at least, we land on the positive side of things: Downtown Detroit is now officially one of America's top 15 "emerging" downtowns! Champagne! Downtown Detroit won its spot on the list by increasing its population of 29- to 34-year-olds by 59% between 2000 and 2010...

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2013/03/emerging-forbes-throws-downtown-detroit-a-bone.php


Who do you think all these big shots are building retail space for, & why do you think all these folks are buying up property?

You're clueless or worse.

[IdaBriggs]

87. Are you seriously implying that things are hunky dory in Detroit?

Do you honestly believe we are making this stuff up?

Why?!?!

Over a quarter of a million people have fled Detroit. There is no money to pay for essential city services. Thousands of properties are abandoned. Neighborhoods are empty. And bless Whole Foods for their ethics - they are Good People.

I do not live in Detroit, but I have spent my entire life in southeastern Michigan. What has happened to the city is SHAMEFUL. It isn't a giant corporate conspiracy - it was blatant city government corruption. The "elected" officials treated the city's coffers like a personal checkbook, and forgot their obligations to serve the citizens.

I hope the Emergency Manager provides the political cover to clean house. The people of Detroit deserve better.

And your nonsense simply shows you to be an uniformed; quit fussing over imaginary "power grabs" - we have REAL problems here (like dying children).

[HiPointDem]

88. you made the claim they can't *give* property away in detroit. it's false. no, you don't live in

detroit, i knew that.

the emergency dictator is *already* looking at privatization.

[IdaBriggs]

90. I already provided the links for cheap properties in Detroit.

These properties and others like them have been available for similar prices for at least twenty years that I am personally aware of.

It isn't some giant conspiracy. It is pure neglect and corruption.

[HiPointDem]

92. where corruption flourishes, there's *always* conspiracy. *always*.

[Romulox]

63. "Disaster capitalism" is PRECISELY what brought Detroit to this point.

There is no value in the status quo. None. Detroit is perhaps the worst big city in the industrialized world--in terms of providing basic services to its own residents.

[Romulox]

64. BTW, your personal attacks really suck. Let people discuss this matter without subjecting

themselves to hate and venom, please.

[Union Scribe]

66. Are you serious?

You, of all people, are on board with some GOP picked scumbag coming in and voiding union contracts? WTF Romulox?

[Romulox]

72. As cancer. nt

[HiPointDem]

84. Because taking away the right of citizens to vote at all is exactly analogous to citizens *voting*

against granting a *new* right.

Pitiful.

[IdaBriggs]

89. No, it is about protecting the rights of MINORITIES --

And in this case, that means the AVERAGE citizen of Detroit who wants a fire truck or an ambulance or a police officer to show up when 911 is dialed. Or their children educated. Or a public health worker to help them.

You know - like NORMAL places where citizens get the essential services they need.

[HiPointDem]

91. the average citizen of detroit is in the minority? or the majority of detroiters are criminals who

are keeping the minority from getting ambulances?

can't follow the logic here, ida.

but one thing is clear; you don't care much about democracy.

[IdaBriggs]

96. Yes, yes! At last you understand! I *hate* democracy!

Now that we have adequately identified your insulting moronic statement as the conclusions of an ill mannered junior high school bully who thinks name calling and playing stupid is how one behaves on a discussion board when someone disagrees with you based on Reality, let me see if I can say it clearly enough for you to grasp what has been happening, keeping in mind the odds aren't good you seem to have a vested interest in denying the situation that can best be described as similar to that of "climate change deniers", tobacco executives and of course members of the Flat Earth Society, but I will try one more time none the less.

The majority of Detroit citizens are NOT Rich, Powerful, Politically Connected, or (big secret) Caucasian. The Detroit political machine, with a level of stunning corruption, systematically deprived these citizens of the essential services the public coffers were supposed to provide. Because the political machine was Non-Caucasians preying on Non-Caucasians, and because as I stated before the political machine always generated a Solid Blue Voting Block, the State/Federal governments didn't step in to clean it up either for fear of NOT getting those votes, or petty retribution.

Unfortunately, they damn near killed the Golden Goose, partly because the corruption was so endemic that apparently they thought it was Normal and found ways to "steal more efficiently" with an amazing sense of entitlement. And when you don't adequately educate your young people (50% high school drop out rates have now killed TWENTY YEARS of hopes/dreams for the young people of Detroit), your babies die at levels only seen in famine riddled third world countries, your elderly can't get a ride to the hospital in an ambulance, crime rates rise, property values plummet, and a quarter of a million people FLEE YOUR CITY in a decade like refugees from War because life is too short to chance dying that way, some of us call it a FUCKING DISASTER.

I have to get to work. One of my tasks today is scheduling a meeting to help solve the "dead baby" problem. (The goal is to try to lower one segment of that number by 60% within two years, which is considered so impossible that my cohorts aren't sure whether to laugh at the effort, or weep at the current reality.) You keep whining about "the will of the people" while I keep praying that this will provide the political cover to get things cleaned up. There are a lot of people working their asses off trying to help, but the bad apples with an investment in keeping the "good old boy" network of corruption/thievery going will do everything they can to sabotage the effort.

If you want to HELP, PM me and I will walk you through some of what we need. Call me a fascist again, and you will go on ignore.

[HiPointDem]

97. I didn't call you a fascist, Ida. And nothing you have said has anything to do with the point

under discussion.

Where corruption exists, there's always conspiracy. The corruption comes from the top, the very top, the people now posing as saviors. By design.

For example, Dave Bing and the Fords are tight.

Mayor of Detroit (2009-)
The Bing Group Founder (1980-)
Member of the Board of Cardinal Health (2000-05)
Member of the Board of DTE Energy (1985-2005)
Member of the Board of Lear (1999-)
Member of the Board of Steelcase
Bill Bradley for President
Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
Detroit Economic Club Board of Directors
Detroit Renaissance Board of Directors
Obama for America
Restoring the American Dream


Detroit Renaissance Board of Directors

Dave Bing NBA Hall of Famer, Detroit mayor
David A. Brandon CEO of Domino's Pizza
Anthony F. Earley, Jr. CEO of DTE Energy
William Clay Ford, Jr. CEO of Ford, 2001-06
Thomas A. Gottschalk General Counsel of General Motors, 1994-2006
Roger Penske CEO of Penske Corporation
Rick Wagoner CEO of General Motors, 2000-09
John F. Smith, Jr. CEO of General Motors, 1992-2000

etc.


These folks could have taken out any mayor or Detroit government they wanted to at any time, using their money & media power to subvert it & finance an opposition.

They didn't want to. They financed the crooks. Because they wanted Detroit to be just as it is.

[IdaBriggs]

100. My apologies for misunderstanding about you calling me a fascist.

I didn't sleep well last night, and found your posting (about me not liking democracy) offensive and insulting.

We disagree about the root cause: for me, I think it goes back to at least/from what I remember the Coleman Young administration. Say what you will about the man, I believe he fought for Detroit (even if funds did get diverted, at least he was TRYING to do his job). Unfortunately, since so much of it was built on one man's personality (my perception), when he left, his "successors" seemed to like the "loot the coffers" with a sense of entitlement that just stuns. (I am sure you have heard about council folk riding in limousines while school children don't have pencils, right?)

Anyway, I have a busy day. My offer to "help" with the infant mortality project remains. You can PM me for details / contact information.

In the meantime, I will still give Snyder *some* credit for *trying* - I really think he is *trying* but only time will tell. We have a long way to go, but anywhere is better than where we are right now.

[amandabeech]

114. Don't forget the city council, Ida.

My understanding is that there are a few bad eggs in that basket.

[IdaBriggs]

118. Agreed. The entire "culture of corruption" is just infuriating.

And it doesn't exist in a vacuum; it has to be enabled by other people who benefit, and then has to be "concealed" by people who can then be blackmailed because of their participation.



The sense of ENTITLEMENT to stealing from the public -- ARGH! I hate when any public official does it, and I don't care what party they pretend to preach loyalty to when in reality they are just scam artists. Maybe it was easy to see with Junior because we saw so much of it locally.

[WilliamPitt]

51. "NO ONE but detroit can be blamed for detroits problems"

Thus, 100 years of economic and social history (Black workers fleeing Jim Crow, the collapse of unions, outsourcing, etc) is pissed away.

Blame the victim. How quaint.

[IdaBriggs]

55. Will, this time you are wrong. It was the Idiots *STEALING*

from the city who did this. Chicago's machine at least made sure that city services were taken care of - the Detroit crew didn't bother.

You destroy a city's schools, take away their emergency services, close down their public health department, and demand bribes for *legitimate* businesses - and you end up with Detroit.

Please review the stats on the grocery stores alone. It is insane.

[NWHarkness]

65. Redlining

The main reason most retail stores left the city is because the insurance companies kept escalating the cost of their coverage, even in low crime areas.

[HiPointDem]

74. Detroit's schools have been under some form of state control almost continuously since 1999.

And under emergency dictatorship since 2009.

Yeah, it's really helped, hasn't it?

[Romulox]

61. Thanks for your posts, bob. The majority posting here doesn't give a fuck about Detroit.

They didn't care before the EFM, and they'll soon forget this, too.

Anyhow, it's laughable to call what existed in Detroit before the EFM "democracy".

[Union Scribe]

67. Man was I ever wrong about you.

Holy cow.

[Romulox]

71. That's fine. If you defend the status quo in Detroit, you're not my ally. nt

[Union Scribe]

73. If you defend voiding union contracts, you aren't mine. nt

[Romulox]

75. That's going to happen. Either with EFM or in Bankruptcy Court. Detroit is unsustainable.

It's not me or my advocacy that is making that so. I am one of the few of my peers that has stuck it out here, tried to make things better. I, like my neighbors and virtually everyone I talk to in this community, am crying out for a solution to this--some HOPE, some CHANGE.

Well, this is what we have. Jennifer Granholm wouldn't/couldn't help. Obama won't/can't help. Congress won't/can't help. Business won't/can't help. DUers are too busy bragging on their Kias and Priuses to help.

So this is what we got. It's not my choice. It's not your choice. WE DIDN'T GET A CHOICE. But this is what we got.

And you blame ME for trying, like I, my family, and my whole community has for generations now, to make the best of this that we can? I'm the villain in this long, sad drama that started well before I was born? I created this cancer? Bullshit.

[amandabeech]

115. I support you, Romulox.

You deserve a lot of credit for sticking it out in a really difficult situation.

As far as I'm concerned, that makes you the most credible voice here. And if the truth you tell isn't pretty, well, it's still the truth.

[upaloopa]

76. Come on now. Everyone in Detroit gets paid bribes?

I've been to Detroit a lot. Like most cities in the rust belt, when manufacturing jobs left so did any hope of maintaining anything positive. Cities all up and down I-75 met the same fate. I grew up in Dayton Ohio and remember when just about any man who wanted to work could get a job in one of the factories.
You can't blame the residents of those cities for the economic decisions made in corporate board rooms.

[flvegan]

85. Don't you have another family member's dog to shoot in cold blood?

[Katashi_itto]

95. Wow...Promoting Fascism on DU. I am amazed something I thought I'd would not see.

You were arguing in favor of the Emergency manager on other threads.

You know with your company, you might be able to snap up some juicy contracts now.

The EM will put lots of stuff up for sale. Like in Pontiac, they sold a 20 million dollar sports area for a half milion and the EM now works for the people that bought it.

It's just a different spin on the same tactic thats being done to Schools across the country. "Reform" is a code world for privatize, the schools, SSA, Medicaid, hey lets grab it and maximize our profit.

[kentuck]

99. My first real job out of high school was in Detroit.

There were no jobs in Kentucky in the late '60's. There are no jobs now, but that's another story.

Jobs were everywhere in Detroit back then. I got a job at HyGrade Meat Products on Michigan Ave making Ballpark Franks and canned hams. It was hard labor. I worked and slept and worked some more. I usually averaged about 72 to 76 hours per week with the overtime.

What happened to Detroit? In the early Seventies, Americans started buying those little Toyotas. They loved them. They were reliable and seemed to run forever. They became even more popular with the first oil embargo during the Ford Administration. That is when Detroit started downhill, in my opinion. With automation and less demand, the automobile industry began to lay people off instead of hiring more people. That was the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

At one time, not that long ago, Detroit was the big straw that stirred the drink...

[Vinnie From Indy]

101. I worked in Detroit for a year in the 80s

The corruption of the city government was astounding and it only got worse after Coleman Young. Many, not all, of the city's problems are a direct result of political corruption.

[kwassa]

110. I know what I am about to say will be ignored, but Detroit's problems are not from corruption ...

or from fascism or democracy or Democrats or Republicans ...

The decline comes from two things:

1) The decline of the American auto industry, reducing all auto employment.

2) American auto companies moving auto production out of Detroit to other places, thereby destroying the economic base of the city. The auto companies did this themselves. They are the culprits.

Detroit had the great defect of being essentially a single-industry town dependent on a very large American business sector that went into decline. Other rust belt cities had similar declines, though Detroit's was worse, as American heavy manufacturing moved offshore. Can we talk about the steel industry?

Bad city management can add to the problem, but no city can survive when the economic base disappears. There is and was no plan B in Detroit, and there will be no rescue without new businesses that create new jobs. Where will this come from?

I was born in Detroit, but lived in the suburbs. My dad worked for GM as a mid-level manager for 30 years, and we moved a couple of times around the country to work for far-flung GM divisions. He ended his career at Cadillac, at the Clark Street plant in Detroit, where armed guards had to walk employees to the parking lots because it was so dangerous. That was almost 30 years ago.

[navarth]

112. Clear and simple. Detroit's problem is the same as the rest of the country. Outsourcing of jobs.

I'm a born and raised Detroiter and proud of it. And FUCK anybody that wants to use this thread to trash the city I love as I love my own mother.

When I was growing up we had a lot of lazy, corrupt and stupid people as we do now, as any big population center has. But there were JOBS and there was money from those jobs, and it was a healthy, vibrant city. CAPITALISM demands profit and the corporations moved the jobs overseas where they could get slave labor. Or they moved to poacher race-to-the-bottom states that didn't unionize. The greatest president we ever had, Abraham Lincoln, ended slavery, or so we thought. What really happened is we exported slavery. It's ALWAYS been about cheap labor for them, whether it's slavery or outsourcing.

What's wrong with Detroit is what's wrong with America. We're the canary in the coal mine. Everybody'd better pay attention.

[Starry Messenger]

113. +1

A lot of us are paying attention. Thank you for your posts in this thread.

[HiPointDem]

116. on the money.

[Cal Carpenter]

119. Thank you for this

I've avoided this thread until just now, and I'm glad I read it through to get to this post.

People seem to view Detroit in some vacuum with no history and no connection to the outside world.

The fact is, it was used up and spit out by the capitalist class over a period of a few decades. Without a real analysis of how we got here, we can never even imagine how to get somewhere better.

The other thing that is driving me nuts is this assumption that you have to either support 'the status quo' or you have to be pro-EM. As if there are only 2 possible options in the world. Ever. How fucking useless and uncreative.

And while my expectations here at DU are relatively modest, I am APPALLED by how many people are okay with the EM thing as a concept. How fucking anti-democratic. What a sad joke.

Anyway, thanks again for your post. It all needs to be said, and it needs to be said over and over again to counter the anti-union, anti-democracy propaganda that is clearly working.

I love Detroit.

[navarth]

120. Glad to be of service.

And thanks for the kind words.

I will continue to strive for justice for Detroit. It's been hard, but I guess I'm just stubborn.