US sabre rattling leading to War?

[rgbecker]

Last edited Sun Mar 31, 2013, 11:00 AM - Edit history (1)

The war danger in Korea:
Pentagon’s false propaganda conceals truth about crisis

By Brian Becker, ANSWER Coalition national coordinator

http://www.answercoalition.org/national/news/the-war-danger-in-korea.html



The American war propaganda machine does a thorough job in misleading the public about the high-stakes struggle the Pentagon is waging against North Korea. On March 28, the Obama administration ordered and the Pentagon executed a mock bombing attack on North Korea by U.S. B-2 stealth bombers equipped to drop nuclear bombs—the most advanced nuclear-capable plane in the U.S. Air Force. In recent months, the U.S. has also used nuclear-capable B-52 bombers to simulate the bombing of North Korea.

snip

It is not necessary to speculate how the United States would react if North Korea sent nuclear-capable bombers close to U.S. territory and dropped inert bombs as part of a “war game.” By itself, this B-2 mock bombing of North Korea cost approximately $5.5 million, according to Foreign Policy magazine. The B-2 flights by some estimates cost $135,000 per hour—almost double that of any other military airplane, according to a report from the Center for Public Integrity.

snip

In 1961, General Park Chung-hee, formerly an officer in the Japanese Manchuko Imperial Army during the time of Japan’s brutal colonial occupation of Korea, seized power and held it until his assassination by other military officers in 1979. Any South Korean person who said anything sympathetic about communism, socialism or North Korea was sentenced to decades-long prison terms where torture was a given. The role of the Pentagon and its continuing occupation has been decisive in Korean politics. After the assassination of Park Chung-hee, massive protests were staged in May 1980 against the military dictatorship in the South Korean city of Kwangju. The pro-democracy movement in Kwangju was labeled “communist-inspired” and the rebellion was crushed in blood. More than 2,000 people were killed May 18 to 27, 1980. Later released secret documents revealed that it was the top brass of the U.S. occupation force that authorized soldiers of the Korean Army's 20th Division to be sent to Kwangju to suppress the protesting students.

Snip

The propaganda campaign is in full swing now as the Pentagon climbs the escalation ladder in the most militarized part of the planet. North Korea is depicted as the provocateur and aggressor whenever they assert that they have the right and capability to defend their country. Even as the Pentagon simulates the nuclear destruction of a country that it had already tried to bomb into the stone-age, the corporate-owned media characterizes this extremely provocative act as a sign of “resolve” and a measure of “self-defense.”

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Gobsmacking funny

First, for a full swing propaganda it took the us TV 48 hours to have anything on the air. Now if that is full swing....

Second, not that I expect this to be understood by the comedy writer of that piece, a state of war has existed in Korea since 1948....there is no peace treaty in place, so actually the "declaration. Of war" from Kim Jun Un was all kinds of funny as well...my personal favorite was the we are going to fight this on land, sea and air. They do have an army, the other two branches, they do, as self defense forces.

Third, if the US actually warned a hot war...there have been plenty of actual acts of war that could have led to the resumption of hostilities over the decades. The ANSWER coalition needs to read a few dusty books. Hell, a few wiki entries might help at this point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. One more thing

The North Korea media yesterday reported Kim Jong-un "convened an urgent operation meeting" of senior generals just after midnight, signed a rocket preparation plan and ordered his forces on standby to strike the U.S. mainland, South Korea, Guam and Hawaii, state media reported. (AP, March 29)

They are dutifully transcribing Pyongyang Radio.

[leveymg]

3. Someone calculated that if we ignored them that would piss off NoKo all the more.

So, we indulge their tantrums (and need for attention) by sending scary batwings over the Korean Peninsula. It makes them feel important.

Let's hope everyone is calculating the same way.

[TwilightGardener]

18. Also meant as a signal to China and Russia: they'd better help

get NK under control, or things will happen right next door that they won't necessarily like. I think our relative lack of response and SK restraint in past incidents may have emboldened NK a little (as well as their nuke and missile tests), and thus the increased show of force and attention from us.

[MineralMan]

4. May I ask if you are the author of this?

If so, then that's fine. If not, you've posted unattributed and perhaps copyright-protected content, without even a link to its source.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[rgbecker]

5. I'm not the author, the source is clearly stated on the 3rd line.

Thanks for policing this.

[MineralMan]

6. It is customary to provide links to content that is

not your own.

[OldDem2012]

10. Here ya go....

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_65510.shtml


http://www.answercoalition.org/national/news/the-war-danger-in-korea.html

[99Forever]

8. I'm on your side with this, but please...

.. be advised that you are in violation of posting rules for copyrighted materials. You need to cut it down to 4 paragraphs and add a link to be within TOS guidelines. Please do, as this is an important POV to be presented. Thanks.

[rgbecker]

13. Just to clarify the regulations:

I would hold that anything sent to me via email is no longer protected by any copyright and could be forwarded or published on my blog as this has been given to me by the original publisher/author, and now I own it. What do you think?

[99Forever]

25. I think you..

.. should follow the TOS for this site. You can do as you please on your blog, but the owners of this site set the Terms Of Service as to how and what can be posted here.

Updated:I see you have edited it down, good. I think it raises some interesting issues that need addressed. Thanks.

[MineralMan]

27. What you hold has nothing to do with the Terms of Service at DU.

Please read that TOS document. There's a link to it at the bottom of every DU page:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

DU is not your blog.

[rgbecker]

52. Sorry to mislead you. I was asking a general question about copyright...

Not the DU terms of service. I'm happy to make my fellow DUers happy about TOS and will abide as promised. Thanks for your help.

[Lurks Often]

7. I'm almost jealous of the drugs the author of that article must be on n/t

[Comrade_McKenzie]

9. I know, right? Must be some good shit. nt

[OldDem2012]

11. Outside of your own personal opinion, do you have anything refuting the facts presented....

....in the article?

Or do you always believe what you're told by the MSM about US and World history?

[Lurks Often]

15. No, I make my own decisions, based as much as possible on the raw data,

The author of that article is not even remotely objective.

I notice how he skipped over the North Korean massacres of unarmed Americans, POW's and South Korean civilians.
I notice how he skipped over the North Korean treatment of POW's, including some that never came home.
I notice how he skipped over that it was the North Koreans that attacked South Korea.
I notice how he skipped over the un-provoked North Korean artillery attack on South Korean islands
I notice how he skipped over the un-provoked North Korean submarine attack on a South Korean navy ship.

[premium]

17. That was a real unbiased article

wasn't it.

[freshwest]

70. I've never heard of the history being cited in the article.

The assumption from those who agree with it, is that this is a secret history hidden from Americans. The Japanese occupation of Korea was a few years before the war. It was brutal in that region for years.

I'm at a loss, this is before my time, was just a toddler and it wasn't discussed much. Some called it 'the forgotten war,' IIRC.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I am envious of tje ability to write good fiction

I say that as a fiction writer...this is comedy gold.

[Posteritatis]

33. I dunno, they seem past their sell-by date. (nt)

[geek tragedy]

12. ANSWER is a front group for Stalinists. Literal Stalinists--the WWP.

We're talking about people who think that North Korea's government is a good one.

[MineralMan]

16. Thanks for that information. I was not aware of that.

The general tone of the article suggested something like that, though.

[rgbecker]

19. Can't find anything that would indicate ANSWER thinks North Korean Government good.

How about a link?
Appears the group is against WAR and Racism.

Nothing promoting Stalinism. Link?

[MineralMan]

21. You'd have to ask the person who provided that information.

I don't have any links to offer you, and don't have time today to research it. I'll be looking into it later, though.

By the way, nobody who requested that you honor DU's copyright fair use policy has any authority here.

[geek tragedy]

23. Here is an example.

http://www.answercoalition.org/national/news/protests-no-war-on-korea.html

Not anti-war, just the other side.

[rgbecker]

24. Did you read this link?

Please quote the line about being pro war or promoting Stalinism. Can't find it.

Sounds like ANSWER is promoting negotiations and signing of Peace treaty. Questioning the advisability of conducting war games close to North Korea. Am I missing something?

Just quote the article if you see something promoting war ("just the other side&quot or Stalinism.

Thanks for help on this, I'm an older veteran and not reading as well as when younger.

[premium]

28. Notice the condemnation is all one sided?

No condemnation of NK whatsoever, just of the US and SK.
ANSWER has a history of condemning the US and her allies while overlooking dictators wrongdoings.
I wouldn't believe a fucking thing that ANSWER has to say.

Do you agree with ANSWER? That this crises is all the US and SK's fault?
That NK bears no responsibility in the escalation of tensions?

[alphafemale]

32. Yep. Pretty much abandoned anti-war marches 'cause ANSWER was all over them like mange on a barn dog

Some of the speeches were like...

[premium]

34. Me too.

ANSWER has a way of fucking up a good anti war protest with their batshit crazy theories.

[freshwest]

72. Do you think they're associated with the LaRouchies? They are total batshit.

[premium]

74. I really couldn't say.

But in my opinion, they do more to hurt the anti war movement than anything else.

[freshwest]

76. I'm a bit disappointed. I thought they were odd, not authoritarian. Don't know any of them.

Who is funding them, I wonder.

[premium]

79. Here's a real doozy from them.

They claim that it was the US that invaded N. Korea in 1950.

http://www.answercoalition.org/national/news/new-war-crisis-looms-in-korea.html

Fact 4: U.S. forces invaded North Korea in 1950. By 1951, there were no more stationary, hard targets for the U.S. air force to bomb since by then there were no structures higher than one story still standing. The U.S. and allied military forces drove up through North Korea in 1950 but were ultimately defeated by a counter-offensive launched by North Korean and Chinese troops. No one knows how many Koreans died during the three-year conflict, but according to the Encyclopedia Britannica of 1967, more than five million Koreans perished who would not have died if there had been no war.

As far as who funds them, I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out.

[freshwest]

80. I wonder if the history of WW2 and how the Japanese occupied the Korean peninsula

would give a clue as to the real history of the region. My father was in the Pacific and had to go and clean up what the Japanese left behind in China. It was pretty horrific what happened as they were leaving, like the Germans as they retreated.

I remember some names and stories from those years, about Taiwan and the adjusting of the borders in that region of the world as WW2 ended and the occupation of Japan began. There are still terrible feelings between the different nations there about what occured.

Now where they get the idea that the USA just had to have Korea, when Americans were occupying Japan, the French still controlled what was called Indochina, and the like, IDK. I would suppose that in driving the Japanese out of several places, the Phillipines, China and Korea, Americans were in Korea for some time.

There may have been influence from Russia and China to set up all of those countries as part of their sphere of influence. I do know the Chinese entered the war on the side of NK. It was a terrible war and ended in a stalemate.

I don't believe Obama is trying to provoke anyone there. The USA, Russia, China and other countries wander the globe, by air and sea. I think NK is an epic failure of a country and it's because of their leadership. If they are an example of socialist or communist rule they are the worst one yet.

The Chinese and the USA may be playing this to get NK to stop wasting its energy on warfare. It doesn't need to be on war status for decades. NK has nothing anyone wants, but SK is a modern, prosperous democracy.

I find it hard to believe that Kim or whoever it is can be insane enough to want a nuclear war. But they are saying so, and have said they'd attack us for years. It sounds insane, and I don't know what they ever gained by this strategy.

[rgbecker]

53. Takes two sides and bunch of Sheeple to have a war.

I'm waiting quotes from ANSWER to indicate support of NK or Stalinism.

If I'm anti Pro-Life am I Pro Abortion? Same logic as near I as I can see.

[premium]

56. As has been pointed out to you

ANSWER is nothing more than a front for Stalinists and Leninists.
They are about as credible as the NRA is, NOT.
Why is it that they don't condemn the N. Korean's on anything? Just the US and S. Korea?

Where was the condemnation from ANSWER when NK shelled that SK island, killing 2 civilians and 2 ROK Marines?
Where was the condemnation from ANSWER when a NK sub sank an ROK Frigate?
Where was the condemnation from ANSWER when the NK's fired a rocket over Japan?
Where was the condemnation from ANSWER when the NK's tested a nuke?
Where was the condemnation from ANSWER for the NK's latest provocations?

[geek tragedy]

20. The same people decrying the US here broke out the pom-poms for the crackdown

in Tianenman Square as well as the Soviet invasions of Afghanistan, Czechoslovokia, and Hungary.

Their critics on the left refer to the WWP/ANSWER crowd as 'tankies' for their support of military tanks as a way of fighting the bourgeois.

[premium]

26. Strange how ANSWER doesn't condemn NK

for shelling that island, killing 2 civilians and 2 SK Marines,
No condemnation for testing nukes
No condemnation for the sinking of a SK frigate
No condemnation for the missile tests
No condemnation for the NK at all

Hell, this "article" could have been written by little Un himself.

[rgbecker]

29. You have a link for this too, I suppose. n/t

[geek tragedy]

30. ANSWER=WWP.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Workers_World_Party_(WWP)

The Workers World Party (WWP) was founded by Sam Marcy in 1959 when he left the Socialist Workers Party. Over time, Marcy's political ideology changed from Trotskyist to a form of Stalinism. The WWP claimed that it supported the rights of workers, but supported the overthrow of workers by the Soviet Union in places like Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland. The WWP has been an apologist for repression, such as the Chinese government's attack on pro-democracy student protesters at Tiananmen Square.
The Workers World Party nominated its first candidate for office in 1980. Though the WWP is small, its membership is highly dedicated and can accomplish much. In 1996, the WWP succeeded in capturing a ballot spot in California which led to WWP Presidential candidate Monica Moorehead getting over 29,000 votes (mainly from California) in 1996. Moorehead once again ran for President in 2000 under the WWP ballot, but this time received less than 5,000 votes. The WWP has created a number of front organizations, including the International Action Center (which has been involved in the anti-globalization demonstrations) and the newly-formed ANSWER (an anti-war group). On May 10, FBI Director Louis J. Freeh named the WWP as a "domestic terrorist group" without providing any evidence, paving the way for future attacks on civil liberties on groups for merely having different opinions than the mainstream. This has brought sympathy from many leftists toward the WWP. However, the WWP continues to do things which will turn leftists away from them, including backing the Kimist dictators of North Korea and supporting the efforts of the anti-Semitic, chauvinistic Russian Communist Workers Party (RKRP). Overall, Workers World is one of the most authoritarian groups on the Left today. See the number of votes the WWP received in Presidential elections.
What are the WWP's front groups?

A front group is any group or organization which is created by a parent group, which subsequently hides its involvement with the front group. The reasons for creating front groups vary. Right-wing political groups frequently create fake environmental organizations. In the case of the Workers World Party, they create front groups because they understand that their politics alienates many working people. It's easy to get involved with a benign group called "International Action Center," which people don't associate with the Stalinist politics of the WWP. However, the IAC's ties to the WWP have become widely exposed, which perhaps explains why the WWP/IAC people created the "A.N.S.W.E.R. anti-war coalition".
The Worker's World Party is responsible for the following front groups: the International Action Center, "A.N.S.W.E.R. anti-war coalition", Mumia 2000, Iraq Sanctions Challenge, National Peoples Campaign and the People's Video Network.

[Posteritatis]

35. Yow. Knew WWP was vile, but not about the ANSWER ties. (nt)

[rgbecker]

57. Help! Can't find quote at your link.

[geek tragedy]

63. Yawn:

http://www2.answercoalition.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9097&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=VSMTF

Our presence in South Korea is the military component of the U.S. aggression against North Korea; the economic component makes North Korea the most heavily sanctioned country in the world. Those sanctions have created a dire living situation for North Koreans, severely limiting their access to food, medicine and other vital

North Korea is only an enemy to the U.S. ruling class, for steadfastly defending its sovereignty.

http://www.answercoalition.org/la/news/a-new-war-crisis-looms-in.html

The DPRK, within a few hours following the launch on April 13, announced that the satellite launch failed to reach orbit. Although this mission failed, there is no question that the DPRK, like most developing countries in the region and the world, will continue to work to perfect its scientific and engineering capabilities so that it can rely on its own technologies to put satellites into space.

Smaller countries and emerging economies, as a general rule, want to develop their independent technological capabilities so as to avoid the relentless bullying from world imperialism and the so-called major powers.

With the DPRK, however, this is not simply a preference. It is the very top priority of the government. Facing unrelenting hostility from Washington and its allies in the South Korean government, the DPRK has believed for several decades that the development of its indigenous technological capacity, especially as it concerns its military and space programs, is a matter of life and death.

They are a propaganda wing of the North Korean government, as is anyone who forwards their pro-Communist dictatorship crapola.

[premium]

64. How can anyone take these bunch of nuts seriously with regards to Korea?

[freshwest]

75. You win the thread. I learned something here. Thanks.

[geek tragedy]

77. Yeah, front groups exist for a reason.

"We're for gay rights . . . just not in anti-imperialist countries like Iran."

[freshwest]

78. Ideology often destroys empathy. And common sense.

[freshwest]

73. ANSWER was for putting the people down in Tianenman Square? That's sick.

[freshwest]

71. I didn't know that. They were in a lot of anti-Iraq war protests.

[MineralMan]

14. Thank you for editing and for the link.

The fair use restrictions at DU are there to protect DU from copyright infringement lawsuits. Thanks for your cooperation.

[mainer]

31. China's take on the situation

"The United States has long adopted a punishment-heavy approach in dealing with ties with the DPRK.

It has imposed rounds after rounds of severe sanctions against Pyongyang and held large-scale military drills regularly in the region.

This approach has only heightened Pyongyang's sense of insecurity and forced it to resort to more extreme actions to defend itself, including breaching United Nations Security Council resolutions to pursue nuclear and long-range missile capabilities.

The latest escalation of tensions has proved that sanctions alone, no matter how strong they might be, are not an effective way to resolve the crisis."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2013-03/30/c_132273419.htm

[TwilightGardener]

37. That's a joke. China full well understands what's really happening.

They've even joined in on the last round of these supposedly punishment-heavy sanctions, because NK would rather develop nukes than feed its people. China also understands the purpose of military exercises, as does NK--it's not ignorance, fear or paranoia that makes NK lash out. They're not like a "child acting out" like Hillary Clinton once unhelpfully called them, either. They're a corrupt, nasty gang trying to stay in power, and using the threat of aggression and nuclear destruction to blackmail everyone else, and China doesn't mind it at all. Might even be encouraging it.

[mainer]

38. Well gee. I'm just quoting the Chinese.

A cut and paste direct from the article.

I guess they just love to make stuff up.

[TwilightGardener]

40. ??--You take their word as gospel? What they put out for public and world consumption

isn't necessarily what's really going on. You know, they're not hacking us, either, I'm sure. Or selling us contaminated goods. LOL. Wait--maybe you're not serious. I can't tell.

[mainer]

42. All I did was cut and paste their editorial.

You can read whatever you want into it.

[rgbecker]

58. You should know better than to post anything that anyone has a problem with!

No matter who says it.

Apparently have stirred up a wasp's nest of American Patriots.

[premium]

41. Publicly, they have to say that,

It's what goes on behind the scenes that counts.
There is growing evidence that China and it's people have just about had it with NK's batshit crazy leaders and probably wouldn't mind seeing the Kim dynasty removed from power and a less crazy leadership installed.
Hell, China itself may do it, who knows.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. We have considered a very public

Three million man invasion from the North to remove dear leader.

Yes, they could use SOF troops, but this would be very obvious

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. And you forgot the important part

RETURN TO THE TRIPARTITE TALKS.

[bhikkhu]

36. We've been having joint exercises with the SK military for fifty years

The B-2 exercise had plenty of precedents, and didn't do anything that hasn't happened dozens of times already. "Near the border" is a joke if you know how Korea is laid out.

I suppose there has to be some tiny war-hating faction that is happy to paint NK as the victim, and everything we do is hateful and wrong, but the amount of fact-twisting you have to do to come up with a whole article to write just gives me a headache. This stuff builds up over the years and feeds itself, like an organism that can only be nourished by poison.

[99Forever]

39. Yeah, us damn "war-haters" are ..

.. the problem here. Not the blood-thirsty, greedy, inhuman, fucking Military/Industrial/Complex and it's human flesh grinding War Machine.


What the fuck ARE we thinking, eh?

[WilliamPitt]

44. Cool story, bro.

[bhikkhu]

45. How many war-lovers do you think there are?

Not many. I don't know any. But to get into a state like the OP you have to invent an evil class of war-lover that is victimizing North Korea.

In Iraq there was oil as a motive, and I would suggest that even the worst of the war-mongers toward Iraq were much more attracted to money, and war was an unfortunate means to gain it. North Korea has nothing to take - it is definitely not Iraq. Nor is it Iran, or Afghanistan, or Syria, or Egypt, or Panama, or anywhere else. North Korea has nothing. They need a great deal, but there is nothing for anyone to gain there, except an end to the long war.

[99Forever]

47. How many?

Apparently enough to kill untold millions since the beginning of recorded history. You give the generals enough toys and they are going to FIND a way to play with them. Show me a single example of where it didn't happen.

[bhikkhu]

50. Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt, recently

...we were assured in each that we would be mired in another Afghanistan if we supported the people.

[99Forever]

51. What does that have to do with N Korea?

Did we have thousands of troops stationed in direct line of fire in those places? Does Libya, Tunisia, or Egypt, have possible nuclear capability? Are any of them at the doorstep of PRofC?

We're are NOT talking "support" here, we are talking the USA about being in a shooting war with all of it's lovely benefits.

[bhikkhu]

65. You asked for examples

of potential large shooting wars, which did involve the warmongers or the pentagon, but which (inexplicably) wound up being just as small as they had to be. While still ending very quickly.

My own point was that North Korea is none of those in any case, nor is is Iraq, or Afghanistan or anywhere else. The OP points to examples of historical saber-rattling and war-mongering as evidence that we are currently attempting to start another war-for-profit in North Korea. The examples don't fit, the idea of a war for profit in North Korea is absurd, and I trust the president's judgement, given his record so far.

[WilliamPitt]

43. This is getting silly.

[whistler162]

46. Strange this all started after Dennis Rodman

visited... connection?

[Initech]

60. Yeah if a guy whose nickname is "The Worm" is a diplomat...

What does that say about us?

[Godhumor]

48. There is so much bullshit in the linked article

I think the author took a laxative before writing the piece.

[premium]

49. Yep.

Because that "article" is nothing more than a load of shit.

[Initech]

59. While we could wipe North Korea off the map...

The last thing we need is another pointless, trillion dollar fucking stalemate that will do nothing but cause death, destruction, and profit. That's the only reason we go to war. Obama should be doing everything possible to prevent this from happening, otherwise the MIC wins again.

[rgbecker]

61. Oh! I get it now.

About ANSWER from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R.

Antisemitism and Anti-Zionism

The Anti-Defamation League has accused ANSWER of supporting terrorist organizations, such as Hezbollah and Hamas.[16] According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency "Several anti-war protests in San Francisco organized by the ANSWER Coalition (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) featured imagery and slogans some considered anti-Semitic, including the burning of the Israeli flag, chants of support for terrorist groups like Hezbollah and Nazi-like arm salutes."[17] Similarly, the Stephen Roth Institute has noted "Anti-Israel and antisemitic content has marked some ANSWER events."[18]

According to ANSWER, "We strongly abhor all forms of racism and bigotry, including anti-Semitism. At the same time, we don't believe that criticism of Israeli government policies should be labeled as anti-Semitism any more than criticism of U.S. government policy should be labeled as anti-American."[19]

The May-June 2003 issue of Tikkun magazine, a progressive magazine of Jewish interests, contained a special section entitled Authoritarianism and Anti-Semitism in the Anti-War Movement? According to Tikkun, "many Jews report that they were encountering what they perceived to be anti-Semitism at anti-war demonstrations organized by International A.N.S.W.E.R." Tikkun described the perceptions of anti-Semitism as based on Israel being singled out for criticism and ANSWER's failure to "acknowledge or support the right of the Jewish people to national self-determination."[20]

[SidDithers]

62. You get what now?...

What are you saying with this post?

C'mon. Spell it out.

Sid

[Dreamer Tatum]

66. Anyone who disagrees with you is a Jew-lover.

That is what you are saying.

[Posteritatis]

69. It's definitely the tone I got from that post, too. Ugh. (nt)

[cali]

68. what is it you get, dear? Do spell it out.

[cali]

67. wow. that's a remarkably stupid pile of shit.

talk about propaganda. that's all this is.