Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:13 PM

I will not apologize for suspecting those who advocate violence might be guilty of violence

"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
-Former NRA President Charlton Heston

"Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests." … "They've got a big target on there, ATF. Don't shoot at that, because they've got a vest on underneath that. Head shots, head shots.... Kill the sons of bitches."
-Right-wing radio host G. Gordon Liddy

"“Obama, he’s a piece of sh**. I told him to suck on my machine gun." "Hey Hillary, You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch.”
-NRA Board Member Ted Nugent who was waving an assault rifle in the air as he spoke these words

These quotes represent just three of the many pieces of violent rhetoric that has come from the right-wing in recent years. The people who said these disgusting things were not just random right-wingers, they are people who were given giant microphones by the far right.

The right-wing leaders who uttered these disgusting words were not held accountable, G. Gordon Liddy continued to host his radio show, Charlton Heston's "cold dead hands" line was not only cheered by his supporters but was printed onto bumper stickers by the NRA, and Ted Nugent has continued to be reelected to the NRA Board of Directors and provided a microphone to make other violent threats.

Yesterday a tragedy struck in Boston, it happened on Tax Day just a short distance from the site of the original Boston Tea Party. As of right now we don't know exactly who set off the bombs in Boston, but it is certainly not a stretch to see the symbolism of Tax Day and suspect that it might be right-wing extremists who carried this attack out.

Now people tell me that we should wait for the facts to come in before we voice our suspicions, but I feel that we have been seeing the facts for far too long and I can not pretend that these facts do not exist. They may not be facts that point to a specific individual, but they are facts that do raise a lot of suspicions.

The fact is that we have heard far too much of the "from my cold dead hands" rhetoric, we have seen far too many nutty right-wingers tell us that they need an arsenal of guns to protect themselves from the government. They have made no secret of the fact that they dream of using their guns to violently overthrow the government, they want us to think that their guns are needed to protect us from government tyranny. Of course in their world tyranny means allowing gay people to get married and providing health care to poor people.

When I hear violent rhetoric I suspect that at least some of the people pushing that rhetoric are violent people themselves, and when a Tax Day attack happens they are going to be the first people I suspect. The reason I suspect them is based on their behavior, if they did not promote violence I would not suspect them no matter how much I disagreed with them. I disagree with nearly all Republicans, but the vast majority of Republicans I would never suspect of committing a violent act such as this one. There is a small group of them however that does seem extremely dangerous to me, the people who embrace Ted Nugent's violent rhetoric are the type of people who I believe are likely to be violent themselves.

In recent months we have seen right-wingers openly carrying assault rifles into State Capitol buildings in places like Oregon and Washington in order to intimidate law makers who are working pass gun legislation. We have seen the legislators who have introduced gun control bills sent numerous death threats. This is real and it is happening right now, I can't sit and pretend that this sort of violent rhetoric does not make me suspicious.

Maybe in the end I will be proven wrong, maybe it won't be a teabagger that gets arrested maybe it will just be some crazed teenager who was had a sick idea that he thought it would be fun to unleash chaos. Even if I am wrong however I will not apologize for being suspicious because it is the violent rhetoric of a certain group of people that made me suspicious of them, and if a person chooses to speak that violent rhetoric it is their own fault when the finger gets pointed at them when something happens.

The people who promote violence are not innocent, even if they did not have a direct role in planting these bombs they are still responsible for promoting acts of violence and terrorism.

I suspect this bombing was committed by a right-winger who is a fan of the sort of violent rhetoric that I posted at the top of this post. I am not going to make any apologies for voicing my suspicions before all the facts are in because there are more than enough facts to say that a certain group of people have acted in a way that has caused people to be legitimately suspicious of them. If they don't want people suspecting them of violence then they need to stop promoting violence.

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131 replies	Author	Time	Post
I will not apologize for suspecting those who advocate violence might be guilty of violence (Original post)	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	OP
No need to apologize;	elleng	Apr 2013	#1
You should apologize. And you should feel bad.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#2
What is reactionary about suspecting people who promote violence?	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#5
They invite your suspicion because you want them to be the ones who did this.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#10
Your vehemence is odd and curious.	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#18
My "vehemence" stems from my impatience with disingenuous politicking in the OP.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#20
They are not equally suspicious in every case	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#23
We bomb their cities and kill their people. They have at least enough motivation.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#31
I do consider Islamic terrorists suspects too. The style doesn't quite match, but who knows.	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#37
Because "suspicion" is a dangerous word to throw around.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#42
What, will it explode or something?	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#44
Words as weapons. Suspicion is violent rhetoric.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#47
Please elaborate. What bad consequence will happen as a results of somebody publicly saying	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#50
Islamist Militants routinely use hydrogen peroxide bombs. This was a pressure cooker bomb.	Maraya1969	Apr 2013	#108
I'm not actually accusing Islamist militants of this attack.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#109
Wait now. Let's apply what you just said to the people who kill abortion providers and the ones who	Maraya1969	Apr 2013	#111
So when we find right-wing extremists who said we should bomb the Boston Marathon...	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#112
Just like the abortion place bombers don't make their plans out in the open neither did the people	Maraya1969	Apr 2013	#115
Yes there is evidence that this is a home grown right winged anti-tax group or person.	Maraya1969	Apr 2013	#110
Which facts are you referring to?	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#113
It was done in Boston. On Patriot's Day - a day to celebrate The begining of the revolutionary war	Maraya1969	Apr 2013	#116
So Tea Partiers blew up a group of marathon spectators to protest taxes...	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#117
Way to throw in a strawman in order to ignore the facts.	Maraya1969	Apr 2013	#124
Why target the marathon?	onenote	Apr 2013	#121
Militant Islamic terror organizations immediately claim credit for their acts of terror.	Ikonoklast	Apr 2013	#56
It's been 24 hours. You know nothing.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#60
I'll do as I please, I don't seek or need your permission.	Ikonoklast	Apr 2013	#64
This message was self-deleted by its author	Crabby Appleton	Apr 2013	#81
Why don't YOU STHU?	WinkyDink	Apr 2013	#93
No?	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#94
I'm with you, seems pretty obvious nt	Tumbulu	Apr 2013	#118
They are not the	840high	Apr 2013	#57
No they are not the only ones, but they are advocating violence	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#61
What if it was merely because it was a large crowd?	freshwest	Apr 2013	#107
reactionary	kardonb	Apr 2013	#88
Who's a reactionary?	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#7
Anybody who thinks they know who committed this attack with zero evidence.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#12
"Thinks they know" and "suspects" are NOT the same thing, you know that, don't you?	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#14
What is the difference, if you don't mind?	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#15
You DON'T know the difference? OK, I'll explain it to you verrrry slowly.	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#22
No, the OP suspects that right-wingers did this.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#28
Well, YES! Exactly! He DOES believe he might be wrong! Isn't that what rational people do?	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#33
No, he should not have stated supicion. You've finally figured out my point.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#40
What are you afraid of?	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#46
I'm afraid we are becoming that which we hate the most.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#49
Spare me the meaningless platitudes. What are you afraid of?	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#54
I am afraid we are giving into to the very vitriol and self-assuredness that the right practices.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#58
What's with the we?	ohheckyeah	Apr 2013	#119
it's not exactly rocket science: we have rw terrorists in this country	noiretextatique	Apr 2013	#126
He's right; you're wrong. He owes no one an apology, least of all the RW fascists	kestrel91316	Apr 2013	#39
Your concern is noted. n/t	backscatter712	Apr 2013	#86
You would have us lulled	cartach	Apr 2013	#100
Is that the best you can do? Accuse me of supporting right-wing extremists?	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#101
I agree and I don't want to be politically correct	Horse with no Name	Apr 2013	#3
Are you talking about	Bully Taw	Apr 2013	#74
I don't suspect Charlton Heston. nt	pintobean	Apr 2013	#4
I suspect the people that he got to cheer him	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#9
I think it's foolish to speculate at this point.	pintobean	Apr 2013	#16
Depends on the facts of the case	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#30
The senator targeted	leftynyc	Apr 2013	#122
Which is one of the main reasons that non-violent resistance is ultimately the only way out	99th_Monkey	Apr 2013	#6
The NRA made it impossible to trace ingredients used in explosives.	Lint Head	Apr 2013	#8
Not really true	mwrguy	Apr 2013	#27
Add anyone who talks about "second amendment solutions" when they lose elections.	baldguy	Apr 2013	#11
So, regardless of who is found to be behind this...	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#13
"Round up the usual suspects..."	pinboy3niner	Apr 2013	#19
I love your sig.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#21
I never said I won't retract, I said I won't apologize.	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#32
Is it OK for people to suspect groups that have declared a Jihad against the Great Satan,	Nye Bevan	Apr 2013	#17
Oh no, that's straight out. nt	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#24
I guess you're afraid to say...	jessie04	Apr 2013	#26
In a number of situations I would suspect them	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#36
Did you know the 1936 Arab Revolt in Palestine began on April 15th?	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#63
But one group in particular associates themselves with the site of the Boston Tea Party	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#67
However, Al-Qaeda has issued threats against sporting events before.	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#73
I won't deny a small chance that it might be Al Qaeda	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#75
Perhaps it was Anarchists?	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#78
What if it was the Easter Bunny?	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#83
But no good reason to be suspicious of any Islamist groups that have threatened violence...	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#87
Notice DU's resident NRA defenders have swarmed your thread posting right-wing talking points, but	apocalypsehow	Apr 2013	#25
Am I a resident NRA defender? Or are you merely attempting to marginalize dissent?	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#29
You're not really fooling anyone, know it? n/t.	apocalypsehow	Apr 2013	#34
In what way am I trying to fool people?	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#41
That's funny, there.	apocalypsehow	Apr 2013	#45
It's called black/white thinking	derby378	Apr 2013	#35
You, either.	apocalypsehow	Apr 2013	#38
You're extremely transparent. This country has seen far more terrorist attacks by	kestrel91316	Apr 2013	#48
I am not blaming anyone for these attacks. The bottom line is we simply don't know.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#53
BULLSHIT. Violence is destructive. Talking about it is not.	kestrel91316	Apr 2013	#65
Words can absolutely be violent and destructive.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#68
Speech that encourages violence is as bad as violence. Our speculation about	kestrel91316	Apr 2013	#85
I'm not so sure your speech is so innocent.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#95
+1,000. Pretty much nails it. n/t.	apocalypsehow	Apr 2013	#59
I'd go with marginalize dissent. nt	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#51
I really don't care who or what you are. You are trying to divert attention from the extreme right.	firenewt	Apr 2013	#52
No apology necessary. Of course these whacko right wing extremist groups are prime suspects	quinnox	Apr 2013	#43
ANYONE could do a false flag & blame PO for a false flag. Or it could be an entirely 3rd thing trian	patrice	Apr 2013	#55
So well stated and exactly how I see it	Tumbulu	Apr 2013	#62
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Apr 2013	#66
Suspect as much as you please.	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#69
2 posts and you are here defending right wing extremists?	RetroLounge	Apr 2013	#70
+1. n/t.	apocalypsehow	Apr 2013	#72
I reject violent rhetoric whether it comes from the left or right or anywhere in between.	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#71
I don't so much object, as find it interesting, that you come to DU and sound like Alex Jones.	MH1	Apr 2013	#77
Well....	humbled_opinion	Apr 2013	#76
Speculation doesn't require anything, as long as it is acknowledged as speculation.	MH1	Apr 2013	#82
True... but	humbled_opinion	Apr 2013	#92
I'm guessing it is an essentially apolitical severely psychotic- James Holmes-Colorado Shooting	Douglas Carpenter	Apr 2013	#79
That's one possible scenario	RZM	Apr 2013	#80
Could be...	backscatter712	Apr 2013	#89
I am with you. Do not apologize.	dothemath	Apr 2013	#84
Yes exactly. Look at what happened post 9/11.	Initech	Apr 2013	#97
No one is saying they are not people to watch	DonCoquixote	Apr 2013	#90
I personally am not too worried that the investigators will look the other way because of my post	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#120
of course, this kind of violence is a by a product of the gun culture no matter where it originated	bowens43	Apr 2013	#91
It's not just gun culture though. It's our overall culture of violence.	Gravitycollapse	Apr 2013	#96
What a horrible comment.	Llewlladdwr	Apr 2013	#98
.	Hassin Bin Sober	Apr 2013	#106
What a load of crap	leftynyc	Apr 2013	#123
Much like...	bobclark86	Apr 2013	#99
Alex Jones? Please.	Bjorn Against	Apr 2013	#105
You pissed off the gun-bunnies! That means you touched a nerve!	backscatter712	Apr 2013	#102
I'm inclined to agree with you, Bjorn Against...	ReRe	Apr 2013	#103
You have every cause to be suspicious of the right wing	meanit	Apr 2013	#104
yes, you have cause to be suspicious	Bully Taw	Apr 2013	#131
Larger issue: Suspicion is useless and potentially harmful...	VOX	Apr 2013	#114
I lean toward some rw group/person doing this	deutsey	Apr 2013	#125
Kick	Nye Bevan	Apr 2013	#127
So...........about that theory.............. nt.	TimberValley	Apr 2013	#128
Ted Nuggent!	Macoy51	Apr 2013	#129
well...	Bully Taw	Apr 2013	#130

Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:18 PM

elleng (115,478 posts)

1. No need to apologize;

we're surrounded by it.

I will not apologize for suspecting those who advocate violence might be guilty of violence

1. No need to apologize;

2. You should apologize. And you should feel bad.

5. What is reactionary about suspecting people who promote violence?

10. They invite your suspicion because you want them to be the ones who did this.

18. Your vehemence is odd and curious.

20. My "vehemence" stems from my impatience with disingenuous politicking in the OP.

23. They are not equally suspicious in every case

31. We bomb their cities and kill their people. They have at least enough motivation.

37. I do consider Islamic terrorists suspects too. The style doesn't quite match, but who knows.

42. Because "suspicion" is a dangerous word to throw around.

44. What, will it explode or something?

47. Words as weapons. Suspicion is violent rhetoric.

50. Please elaborate. What bad consequence will happen as a results of somebody publicly saying

108. Islamist Militants routinely use hydrogen peroxide bombs. This was a pressure cooker bomb.

109. I'm not actually accusing Islamist militants of this attack.

111. Wait now. Let's apply what you just said to the people who kill abortion providers and the ones who

112. So when we find right-wing extremists who said we should bomb the Boston Marathon...

115. Just like the abortion place bombers don't make their plans out in the open neither did the people

110. Yes there is evidence that this is a home grown right winged anti-tax group or person.

113. Which facts are you referring to?

116. It was done in Boston. On Patriot's Day - a day to celebrate The begining of the revolutionary war

117. So Tea Partiers blew up a group of marathon spectators to protest taxes...

124. Way to throw in a strawman in order to ignore the facts.

121. Why target the marathon?

56. Militant Islamic terror organizations immediately claim credit for their acts of terror.

60. It's been 24 hours. You know nothing.

64. I'll do as I please, I don't seek or need your permission.

93. Why don't YOU STHU?

94. No?

118. I'm with you, seems pretty obvious nt

57. They are not the

61. No they are not the only ones, but they are advocating violence

107. What if it was merely because it was a large crowd?

88. reactionary

7. Who's a reactionary?

12. Anybody who thinks they know who committed this attack with zero evidence.

14. "Thinks they know" and "suspects" are NOT the same thing, you know that, don't you?

15. What is the difference, if you don't mind?

22. You DON'T know the difference? OK, I'll explain it to you verrrry slowly.

28. No, the OP suspects that right-wingers did this.

33. Well, YES! Exactly! He DOES believe he might be wrong! Isn't that what rational people do?

40. No, he should not have stated supicion. You've finally figured out my point.

46. What are you afraid of?

49. I'm afraid we are becoming that which we hate the most.

54. Spare me the meaningless platitudes. What are you afraid of?

58. I am afraid we are giving into to the very vitriol and self-assuredness that the right practices.

119. What's with the we?

126. it's not exactly rocket science: we have rw terrorists in this country

39. He's right; you're wrong. He owes no one an apology, least of all the RW fascists

86. Your concern is noted. n/t

100. You would have us lulled

101. Is that the best you can do? Accuse me of supporting right-wing extremists?

3. I agree and I don't want to be politically correct

74. Are you talking about

4. I don't suspect Charlton Heston. nt

9. I suspect the people that he got to cheer him

16. I think it's foolish to speculate at this point.

30. Depends on the facts of the case

122. The senator targeted

6. Which is one of the main reasons that non-violent resistance is ultimately the only way out

8. The NRA made it impossible to trace ingredients used in explosives.

27. Not really true

11. Add anyone who talks about "second amendment solutions" when they lose elections.

13. So, regardless of who is found to be behind this...

19. "Round up the usual suspects..."

21. I love your sig.

32. I never said I won't retract, I said I won't apologize.

17. Is it OK for people to suspect groups that have declared a Jihad against the Great Satan,

24. Oh no, that's straight out. nt

26. I guess you're afraid to say...

36. In a number of situations I would suspect them

63. Did you know the 1936 Arab Revolt in Palestine began on April 15th?

67. But one group in particular associates themselves with the site of the Boston Tea Party

73. However, Al-Qaeda has issued threats against sporting events before.

75. I won't deny a small chance that it might be Al Qaeda

78. Perhaps it was Anarchists?

83. What if it was the Easter Bunny?

87. But no good reason to be suspicious of any Islamist groups that have threatened violence...

25. Notice DU's resident NRA defenders have swarmed your thread posting right-wing talking points, but