Is Obamacare a War on Bros?

[babylonsister]

Is Obamacare a War on Bros?

By Jonathan Chait



{These are bros} About to be crushed beneath the boot of Big Government.


snip//

It is true — and nobody has ever denied this — that the hypothetical 25-year-old male will pay higher insurance premiums under Obamacare. Now, this 25-year-old male probably won’t pay higher premiums under Obamacare if he does smoke, or have any potentially worrisome medical history, or have family members with any potential medical history, or even if he’s a perfectly healthy non-smoker from a perfectly healthy family but has a low enough income to qualify for tax credits to cover his premium costs. And of course he’d be unaffected if he already gets insurance through his employer.

So, we have narrowed the class of Obamacare victims down to a very, very small group of victims preparing to be crushed beneath the burdens of Obamacare. But to hold up this tiny sub-category as implicitly representative of the entire health-insurance market is misleading to the extreme.

What’s more, the interests of these Victims of Obamacare may be a bit broader than their conservative champions let on. Suppose you are a non-smoking, non-sick, non-poor, completely healthy 25-year-old from a completely healthy family who does not get employer-provided health insurance. Yes, you will be paying higher premiums. Not 146 percent higher, likely Roy falsely claims, but higher. Yet you may also contemplate the varying probabilities that one day you will be one or more of the following:

poor
sick
a son, husband, or father of somebody who is sick
no longer 25 years old

At that point, the freedom-crushing regulatory burdens of Obamacare may turn into a blessing. And this, of course, is the entire concept of insurance. Insurance is the spreading of risk. What distinguishes health insurance from insurance against, say, fire, is that insurers can make a much better guess which customer is likely to need medical care than which is likely to have their house burn down. Some people are bad actuarial health risks, and some people are good actuarial health risks.

That’s the whole dysfunction of our horrendous health-insurance system. The individual health insurance market is a tragic mess: People who need insurance the most can’t buy it, while the only people who can afford insurance don’t need it. That’s the reason for health-care reform.

more...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/obamacare-a-war-on-bros.html

[Fumesucker]

1. The idea of trying to fix healthcare while making the biggest single problem the centerpiece

Is profoundly stupid.

The insurance companies are the root of the problems with healthcare in the US, get rid of them and you have a chance of fixing things.

[babylonsister]

2. Did you read the article?

It's good.

Conservatives are purposefully interpreting that Obamacare isn't working: Chait is calling them out for misrepresenting the facts.

And no, you won't get rid of insurance companies, at least not anytime soon.

Here's another good one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022942224
Anatomy of a Bogus Obamacare Argument

[Enrique]

9. i have always found the conservative attack on Obamacare to be nonsense

it's hardly even worth critiquing. They said Obamacare amounted to nationalization of health insurance. But the day it passed, the health sector stock prices rose. Three years later, they're still doing fine. the legislation was drafted by an insurance executive for chrissakes.

But the conservative case against it isn't the only case. I'm with fumesucker, we're going to need single payer.

[Fumesucker]

10. I'm really tired of purported liberals flogging a Heritage Foundation policy

My single biggest reason for preferring Obama to Clinton in 2008 was that Hillary supported the individual private mandate while Obama spoke against it.

Now I'm supposed to be thrilled that the individual private mandate has been implemented?

[babylonsister]

13. No, you're not. But I am thrilled something has been done.

We were always warned this would take baby steps to get to universal, and it all takes time, more so with the recalcitrant asshats on the other side. At least we're going in the right direction. And if Romney had been elected, his first order of biz was to do away with Obamacare. I'm selfish; I foresee when it will help me. But I'm a divorced, 57 year old woman with pre-existing conditions and no insurance. The other downside of that is I live in GA!

[Fumesucker]

16. I'm somewhat older than you, have similar problems and even live in the same state

Obama says mandating insurance is like mandating the homeless buy a home, I wonder what happened to that guy.

[babylonsister]

17. Reality, I suspect. It took an exhausting

year to get where we got. Be as angry as you want to be: my glass is 1/2 full.

[Fumesucker]

18. In my view it took an exhausting year to get exactly where we were going anyway

I said as much on DU2 back in late Nov, 2008.

Disgusted describes my mood much more accurately than angry.

[babylonsister]

22. Fine. Be angry and forget about people who were thwarting this.

It's never been that easy.

[Occulus]

24. It's always some accusation of a strong, negative emotional response, isn't it?

I've observed frequently that it comes often with a garnish accusatory of secret Romney desire or some such, like what you said about "people who were thwarting this".

I'm curious: do you really believe that tactic actually works on everyone, and that some of us don't see right the fuck through it?

I'm just asking.

[babylonsister]

25. See right the fuck through what? Do you honestly believe

anything would happen instantaneously? I'm gratified we got what we got given the push back, during a financial recession and all that involved. The fact the rethugs have tried to annul it 37+ times is proof.

I don't know about tactics. I prefer a President who at least attempts to make a difference.

[Occulus]

26. "Do you honestly believe anything would happen instantaneously?"

Putting words in people's mouths doesn't work as usable strategy anymore either. You'll get called on it instantly, like I'm doing to you now. I never said nor implied anything happening instantaneously. That was you.

"I don't know about tactics."

Obviously.

[babylonsister]

27. Bwhahaha! Yes, it's all my fault that you can't answer!

Bon soir. Spin that!

[Occulus]

28. The question answers itself

because nobody but you has mentioned or asked for anything "instantaneously", including me.

[Honeycombe8]

20. I am in favor of the mandate. EVERYONE is in the health care pool. If they don't have

ins., then when they need insurance (and everyone eventually does, and has already), then someone else has to pay for it.

If someone is poor but above Medicaid range, the govt, for the first time in our history, will either pay for their health care outright or subsidize a basic policy for them, to protect them from some catastrophic bill from a car accident, cancer, or whatever. If they don't get a policy, then they'll get a judgment against them for the huge bill, which will ruin their future financially, and which the care provider will pass on to the rest of us.

It's only right that people pay for their OWN health care, if they can afford it.

[Fumesucker]

21. Romneycare didn't substantially change the number of medical bankruptcies in MA

I'll be surprised if Obamacare changes the statistics in that regard significantly in the rest of the country.

My parents were immigrants and I still have contact with family back in the old country where they actually have a civilized system of medical care. Explaining the American medical care system to my foreign relatives has proven to be difficult because they alternate between incredulity and hysterical laughter.

[geek tragedy]

3. 25 year old men all have a few things in common

First and foremost, they hope to live another 50 years.

[babylonsister]

5. Don't we all. But they also

know they're probably going to have families, get old, get ill at some point.

[geek tragedy]

6. All of which mean they'll benefit from universal health care nt

[Fumesucker]

12. Yes they would benefit from universal health care

Too bad that's not what we're getting, not remotely.

[babylonsister]

14. And I think they will realize it in their lifetimes. nt

[Fumesucker]

11. If that were true the suicide rate among young men wouldn't be so high n/t

[Adsos Letter]

4. They look terrified.

[babylonsister]

7. HEY!!! and ha!

[Adsos Letter]

8. LOL

By the way, thanks for the "like" on Kendall's university award.

[babylonsister]

15. Drop me a line, friend!

[Honeycombe8]

19. Good post. Thanks. Let's not also forget that women in that age might pay less.

One thing the ACA does is prevent insurers from charging WOMEN more than men with similar medical histories and statistics.

[RB TexLa]

23. Males of all ages already pay more to subsidize pregnancy costs and the fact that

females use health insurance more than males.

[Hoyt]

29. Money well spent.

[RB TexLa]

30. How is it money well spent to subsidize their health care?

[Hoyt]

31. Without women, we'd be fucked in lots of ways. It's not that big a subsidy.

Quit being stingy.

[RB TexLa]

33. Since it's not that big, they can pay it themselves

[McDiggy]

32. Gen Y males actually do have it rough. ..

Imagine having high unemployment, underemployment, bring forced to live as home, being subjected to the potential of military draft, many are being crushed by student loan debt... they have to delay things like marriage... buying a home. .. starting to save for retirement... and now they have to pay more for health insurance. Pretty much the perfect storm of being screwed. I'm thankful I have a good job...but many of my peers do not.

But, hey, they are men. Their suffering doesn't matter on Democratic Underground.