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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 12:17 AM Jun 2013

NSA Is Collecting Phone Records Of Millions Of Verizon Customers Under Secret Court Order

By Joseph Menn and Sinead Carew

SAN FRANCISCO/NEW YORK (Reuters) – The U.S. National Security Agency is collecting telephone records of millions of Verizon Communications customers, according to a secret court order obtained and published by the Guardian newspaper’s website.

The order marked “Top Secret” and issued by the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court directs Verizon’s Business Network Services Inc and Verizon Business Services units to hand over electronic data including all calling records on an “ongoing, daily basis” until the order expires on July 19, 2013.

The order can be seen at: http://r.reuters.com/kap68t

Signed by Judge Roger Vinson at the request of the FBI, the order covers each phone number dialed by all customers and location and routing data, along with the duration and frequency of the calls, but not the contents of the communications.

The disclosure comes as the Obama administration is already under fire on other privacy and First Amendment issues. In particular, it is being criticized for a search of Associated Press journalists’ calling records and the emails of a Fox television reporter in leak inquiries.

Officials at the White House and the NSA declined immediate comment. Verizon spokesman Ed McFadden declined to comment.

MORE...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/05/nsa-is-collecting-phone-records-of-millions-of-verizon-customers-under-secret-court-order-report/

COMMENT: No worries...it is 'our people' collecting the info. spit

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NSA Is Collecting Phone Records Of Millions Of Verizon Customers Under Secret Court Order (Original Post) Purveyor Jun 2013 OP
Goddamnit! I am PISSED OFF! Th1onein Jun 2013 #1
Had enough yet? woo me with science Jun 2013 #2
It's okay when our guys do it. nt Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #3
Yeah yeah, the plucky little Gaurdian. ucrdem Jun 2013 #4
lol Cha Jun 2013 #6
Um, it's on the front page of the NY Times now - nt CharlesInCharge Jun 2013 #23
based on what the Guardian is providing. I'm not saying it isn't true. I would just like to hear liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #24
The money shot in the NYTimes piece (imho): CharlesInCharge Jun 2013 #26
I guess the heckler story tanked. n/t ucrdem Jun 2013 #25
WTF? First you dismiss the story b/c it appears in The Guardian. Are CharlesInCharge Jun 2013 #27
Um... Hissyspit Jun 2013 #32
What makes you think Verizon is the only one? Initech Jun 2013 #5
Maybe, but the story really doesn't make sense: the 115 million or so Verizon customers struggle4progress Jun 2013 #7
Not ridiculously. And iirc, you are the one who was trying desperately to have us believe GG cui bono Jun 2013 #8
GG is no wacko. ucrdem Jun 2013 #10
Not true. He stands up for civil liberties. Everyone here loved him when he did it with GWB. cui bono Jun 2013 #12
He stands up for what the Koch brothers pay him to stand up for. ucrdem Jun 2013 #15
"He's a lawyer." ??? cui bono Jun 2013 #16
Was. ucrdem Jun 2013 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Jun 2013 #29
Well, you would be wrong about that, too. Utter B.S. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #31
Okay GG thinks pointing out that he works for CATO is "inane and childish." ucrdem Jun 2013 #33
? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #36
You think? How about a link? cui bono Jun 2013 #50
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #30
Except that I'm correct. ucrdem Jun 2013 #34
He doesn't work for CATO and no one is arguing that he is not a lawyer. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #35
He works for CATO, see above. ucrdem Jun 2013 #43
Actually, you owe everyone here facts and not making things up Hissyspit Jun 2013 #49
Why don't you "see above". Geez, you are completely ignoring the post cui bono Jun 2013 #52
Btw... you never provided evidence of your assertion above. Please proceed... cui bono Jun 2013 #53
Machines do the combing. Marr Jun 2013 #9
struggle4progress is right. My husband worked for a cell phone company. It takes a really long time liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #13
I have no doubt that individuals work on things as well. Marr Jun 2013 #17
The machines are not as advanced as people would like to believe they are. It still takes a really liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #18
The software is just a net. Marr Jun 2013 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Jun 2013 #28
They are not recording conversations. randome Jun 2013 #38
Thanks s4p ucrdem Jun 2013 #11
So s/he can swiftboat Greenwald? cui bono Jun 2013 #14
Try reading it a little more critically. ucrdem Jun 2013 #19
No, not so good. I read a whole thread where people tore apart s4p's assumptions cui bono Jun 2013 #51
@marcambinder: And document seems absolutely legitimate. dkf Jun 2013 #22
Well, you know, Verizon already has this info. Do you think they don't make use of it? randome Jun 2013 #37
Oh shit. SoCalDem Jun 2013 #39
They aren't recording conversations. The 'records' include only numbers. randome Jun 2013 #42
As I understand: Source Number, Destination Number, Date, Time, and Duration. Buns_of_Fire Jun 2013 #48
Yet ANOTHER fake scandal to distract us from the fact that Congress is doing NOTHING. 6000eliot Jun 2013 #40
^^this is the problem^^ Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #45
Fake as in not happening or "fake" as in you don't care that is happening? TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #46
Fake as in going on for the last 12 years and suddenly the media cares. 6000eliot Jun 2013 #47
Time to take "land of the free" out of the national anthem davidn3600 Jun 2013 #41
This administration as with the one before that, and the one before that, and the one.. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #44

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
4. Yeah yeah, the plucky little Gaurdian.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 01:24 AM
Jun 2013

What a shitbag of RW trollery that rag has become. And the haters harf down every morsel.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
24. based on what the Guardian is providing. I'm not saying it isn't true. I would just like to hear
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:17 AM
Jun 2013

that they have confirmed it from a few different sources first.

 

CharlesInCharge

(99 posts)
26. The money shot in the NYTimes piece (imho):
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:26 AM
Jun 2013
The four-page order was disclosed Wednesday evening by the newspaper The Guardian. Obama administration officials at the F.B.I. and the White House also declined to comment on it Wednesday evening, but did not deny the report, and a person familiar with the order confirmed its authenticity. “We will respond as soon as we can,” said Marci Green Miller, a National Security Agency spokeswoman, in an e-mail.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/us/us-secretly-collecting-logs-of-business-calls.html?hp&_r=0
 

CharlesInCharge

(99 posts)
27. WTF? First you dismiss the story b/c it appears in The Guardian. Are
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:27 AM
Jun 2013

you still dismissing it now that the NYTimes has confirmed it????

struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
7. Maybe, but the story really doesn't make sense: the 115 million or so Verizon customers
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 01:45 AM
Jun 2013

can be expected to make well over a billion phone calls and to send well over 4 billion text messages EVERY DAY

That would be a helluva lotta data to comb through, hoping to find suspicious patterns

The source seems to be Greenwald, who not so long ago was ridiculously claiming the US gummint recorded EVERYBODY's phone calls

... CNN has so far been unable to independently verify the authenticity of the document ...
Report: Secret court order forces Verizon to turn over telephone records of millions
By Chelsea J. Carter, CNN
updated 12:13 AM EDT, Thu June 6, 2013

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
8. Not ridiculously. And iirc, you are the one who was trying desperately to have us believe GG
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 01:52 AM
Jun 2013

is a wacko with this same argument which was rebutted successfully by several others in that thread.

Stop attempting to smear Glenn Greenwald with unsubstantiated ideas.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
10. GG is no wacko.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 01:57 AM
Jun 2013

More like a Kock water carrier. And he smears himself daily with unsubstantiated fears without help from anyone here.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
12. Not true. He stands up for civil liberties. Everyone here loved him when he did it with GWB.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:00 AM
Jun 2013

Find me more than 2-3 people who you agree with every thing they say and do.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
15. He stands up for what the Koch brothers pay him to stand up for.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:03 AM
Jun 2013

He's a lawyer, remember? Or he used to be anyway.

Response to ucrdem (Reply #20)

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
31. Well, you would be wrong about that, too. Utter B.S.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 06:25 AM
Jun 2013

from right-wing talking points.

"I was never sanctioned or disciplined by any bar, court, or anyone else. I decided voluntarily to wind down my practice in 2005 because I could, and because, after ten years, I was bored with litigating full-time and wanted to do other things which I thought were more engaging and could make more of an impact, including political writing."

Yeah, you're trying to slander him.

Prove he was disbarred.

Also:

"In seven-plus years of political writing, I have written a grand total of twice for Cato: the first was a 2009 report on the success of drug decriminalization in Portugal, and the second was a 2010 online debate in which I argued against former Bush officials about the evils of the surveillance state.

I not only disclosed those writings but wrote about them and featured them multiple times on my blog as it happened: see here and here as but two examples. In 2008, I spoke at a Cato event on the radicalism and destructiveness of Bush/Cheney executive power theories.That's the grand total of all the work I ever did for or with Cato in my life. The fees for those two papers and that one speech were my standard writing and speaking fees. Those payments are a miniscule, microscopic fraction of my writing and speaking income over the last 7 years. I have done no paying work of any kind with them since that online surveillance debate in 2010 (I spoke three times at Cato for free: once to debate the theme of my 2007 book on the failure of the Bush administration, and twice when I presented my paper advocating drug decriminalization).

I have done far more work for, and received far greater payments from, the ACLU, with which I consulted for two years (see here). I spoke at the Socialism Conference twice - once in 2011 and once in 2012 - and will almost certainly do so again in 2013. I'll speak or write basically anywhere where I can have my ideas heard without any constraints. Moreover, I'll work with almost anyone - the ACLU, Cato or anyone else - to end the evils of the Drug War and the Surveillance State. And I'll criticize anyone I think merits it, as I did quite harshly with the Koch Brothers in 2011: here.

The very suggestion that there is something wrong with writing for or speaking at CATO is inane and childish. The claim that it means I 'worked at CATO' is just an obvious lie. If writing for or speaking at CATO makes one a right-wing CATO-employed libertarian, then say hello to the following right-wing libertarian CATO employees, all of whom have been writers for or speakers at the CATO Institute in the past:

Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas (Writing for CATO's Unbound: here and here);
Democratic Sen. Ron Wyden (speaking about surveillance issues at CATO in January, 2011, speaking again at CATO in July, 2012 about FISA, and favorably citing CATO);
Democratic Rep. Jared Polis (defending CATO as "a leader in fighting to end the war in Afghanistan and Iraq and helping to end the War on Drugs&quot .
the ACLU's Legislative Counsel Michelle Richardson (speaking at the CATO Institute's 2011 event on FISA);
Brown University Professor Glenn Loury (writing for CATO's Unbound);
liberal blogger and Clinton Treasury official Brad DeLong (writing for CATO's Unbound);
Harvard law Professor Lawrence Lessig (writing for CATO's Unbound);
liberal blogger and GWU Professor Henry Farrell (writing for CATO's Unbound)"

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
36. ?
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:33 AM
Jun 2013

There's nothing there that Greenwald himself didn't mention in what I posted.

Give it up.

And stop misquoting him. He clearly wrote "The very suggestion that there is something wrong with writing for or speaking at CATO is inane and childish," not what you said.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
50. You think? How about a link?
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:12 PM
Jun 2013

And did you notice the news lately? Guess Obama is not so innocent after all and Greenwald is no crackpot, as that other poster likes to refer to him.

Response to ucrdem (Reply #15)

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
34. Except that I'm correct.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:19 AM
Jun 2013

Greenwald is a lawyer, and he does work for CATO. So I guess I'm not the " increasingly fucking nutbar" one here.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
35. He doesn't work for CATO and no one is arguing that he is not a lawyer.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:23 AM
Jun 2013

You're factually incorrect on multiple points for the purpose of ad Hominem and slander.

And "The Guardian is an espionage front" is just silly.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
43. He works for CATO, see above.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:58 AM
Jun 2013

And I don't owe Greenwald or any other Koch-funded "libertarian" any loyalty, admiration, the benefit of the doubt or anything else. Why would I? In my view he's a slandering fink. And he's clearly not a Democrat so why would you care what I or anyone else think of Glenn Greenwald? He's a RW clown IMHO. YMMV. Sorry.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
52. Why don't you "see above". Geez, you are completely ignoring the post
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:20 PM
Jun 2013

Hissy made showing that you are incorrect and making shit up to try to discredit Greenwald. Were you doing the same when he criticized GWB? Of course you were, right? Links?

And you never produced links showing he was disbarred. Where are those?

Obama has expanded GWB's warrantless wiretapping. It's a fact. It has been known for quite some time now. Deal with it.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
9. Machines do the combing.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 01:53 AM
Jun 2013

Computer programs "listen" to massive amounts of traffic for specific words, phrases... who knows what else.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
13. struggle4progress is right. My husband worked for a cell phone company. It takes a really long time
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:00 AM
Jun 2013

to comb through data.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
17. I have no doubt that individuals work on things as well.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:04 AM
Jun 2013

But I know first hand that software is created to listen to large amounts of audio traffic for specific words and phrases.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
18. The machines are not as advanced as people would like to believe they are. It still takes a really
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:06 AM
Jun 2013

long time to go through data.

Response to Marr (Reply #9)

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
38. They are not recording conversations.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:35 AM
Jun 2013

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
19. Try reading it a little more critically.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:07 AM
Jun 2013

If you couldn't read that CBS piece and feel the smoke being blown up your bum you should pay closer attention to s4p's threads which are really very good.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
51. No, not so good. I read a whole thread where people tore apart s4p's assumptions
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:15 PM
Jun 2013

that were no based on any facts. And s4p likes to call Greenwald a crackpot, which is so far from the truth it pretty much ruins s4p's credibility, especially when coupled with his assertions that were based on his/her own ideas that were not based on evidence.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
22. @marcambinder: And document seems absolutely legitimate.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 02:10 AM
Jun 2013

@marcambinder: And document seems absolutely legitimate. I read it to intel official who said "Uh, can't talk about that." #NSA

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
37. Well, you know, Verizon already has this info. Do you think they don't make use of it?
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:33 AM
Jun 2013

And these 'records' include only phone numbers. They are not recording conversations. I'm interested in seeing the rationale behind this but some are comparing this to 'East Germany' and 'tyranny' and I think that's ludicrous.

Those who want to see the worst possible outlook are gleefully licking their chops and saying, "See? Told you so!"

Let's see what the rationale for this is, first, before getting all hot and bothered.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
39. Oh shit.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:46 AM
Jun 2013

Now "they" will know that James & Nicole want to leave team #36, but they don't want their team captain to know that they think he's a jerk, and that's why they want to leave the team..

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
42. They aren't recording conversations. The 'records' include only numbers.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:47 AM
Jun 2013

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

Buns_of_Fire

(17,175 posts)
48. As I understand: Source Number, Destination Number, Date, Time, and Duration.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 08:31 AM
Jun 2013

The same stuff that's always been available (and still is) from any landline telco switch (which is how they know how much to bill you for long distance calls).

I guess that's why I can't generate a whole lot of righteous outrage about it. Not yet, anyway.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
44. This administration as with the one before that, and the one before that, and the one..
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 08:04 AM
Jun 2013

Relies on the grossly uneducated and mostly uncaring masses to be content with it's bread and circuses. We are in the "know" here for the most part, outside of this is ignorant bliss for the majority of Americans.

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