Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:09 AM Jun 2013

Here's what I believe. I believe that gov't agencies like the CIA, the NSA

the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the 12 other National Security Agencies are largely unchecked. From their budgets to their activities, they operate largely in secrecy and not just from the American people but from Congress and to some degree from whatever administration is in power.

You want to talk about too big to.... be controlled, then let's talk about the National Security Community.

<snip>

The U.S. intelligence budget (excluding the Military Intelligence Program) in fiscal year 2010 was $53.1 billion,[7] according to a disclosure required under a recent law implementing recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. This figure is up from $49.8 billion in 2009,[8] $47.5 billion in 2008,[9] $43.5 billion in 2007,[10] and $40.9 billion in 2006.[11]

In a statement on the release of new declassified figures, DNI Mike McConnell said there would be no additional disclosures of classified budget information beyond the overall spending figure because "such disclosures could harm national security." How the money is divided among the 16 intelligence agencies and what it is spent on is classified. It includes salaries for about 100,000 people, multi-billion dollar satellite programs, aircraft, weapons, electronic sensors, intelligence analysis, spies, computers, and software.

About 70 percent of the intelligence budget goes to contractors for the procurement of technology and services (including analysis), according to a May 2007 chart from the Office of the DNI. Intelligence spending has increased by a third over ten years ago, in inflation-adjusted dollars, according to the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.[citation needed]

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intelligence_community

Do I believe the NSA phone record grab is the tip of the iceberg? Of course. Do I believe that some of these agencies actively spy on Americans? Given their history, one would have to be blind or a fool not to.

I believe that over the years, these agencies have done more to harm U.S. Security than to protect it. I believe that they operate with near impunity (actually, make that clear impunity).

For those of you who think my beliefs about this are nothing but paranoid delusion, I give you endless evidence:

From 2007:

Long-secret documents released Tuesday provide new details about how the Central Intelligence Agency illegally spied on Americans decades ago, from trying to bug a Las Vegas hotel room for evidence of infidelity to tracking down an expert lock picker for a Watergate conspirator.

Known inside the agency as the �family jewels,� the 702 pages of documents released Tuesday catalog domestic wiretapping operations, failed assassination plots, mind-control experiments and spying on journalists from the early years of the C.I.A.�s existence.

The papers provide evidence of paranoia and occasional incompetence as the agency began a string of illegal spying operations during the 1960s and 1970s, often to hunt links between Communist governments and the domestic protests that roiled the nation during that period. Yet the long-awaited documents leave out a great deal. Large sections are censored, showing that the C.I.A. still cannot bring itself to expose all the skeletons in its closet. And many activities about overseas operations disclosed years ago by journalists, Congressional investigators and a presidential commission are not detailed in the papers.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27cnd-cia.html?_r=0

Do you actually think that with an ever increasing budget, the CIA and other agencies are operating any differently than they have in the past? Mark Mazzetti, who wrote the above, doesn't.

Over the last couple of years, numerous authors have reported on specific aspects of America’s counterterrorism effort, including the Navy SEAL team operations, the bin Laden raid, other targeted killings and the drone strikes.

The virtue of Mark Mazzetti’s new book, “The Way of the Knife,” is the way in which it perceptively ties all these events together and paints the larger picture: Since the Sept. 11 attacks, America has gradually developed a new way of war, one that thoroughly relies on secret operations by the Central Intelligence Agency and the Pentagon. It “is now easier,” Mr. Mazzetti writes, “for the United States to carry out killing operations at the ends of the earth than at any time in its history.”

Such actions are not unprecedented, as Mr. Mazzetti, a national security correspondent for The New York Times, acknowledges in his book. The C.I.A. carried out large-scale paramilitary operations in Vietnam and supported them in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Pentagon has long engaged in spying.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/books/the-way-of-the-knife-by-mark-mazzetti.html?pagewanted=all

Get back our country? We haven't had it since the U.S. created this massive web of intelligence agencies after WWII. And as long as they still operate, unrestrained, with enormous budgets, we won't.

That's what I believe.

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
1. Then the writer of this should be quite happy that there is a new NSA head to clean up.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:19 AM
Jun 2013

wonder though how many copies of this book this paid to write author will sell.

But he should be applauding the naming of Susan Rice to be the new NSA head.
I know I am.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
3. Lol, join the crowd. I finally decided it wasn't worth the effort to try to figure out the
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:30 AM
Jun 2013

ramblings.

I agree with you, and I wonder just how powerful these corps are now, powerful enough that it doesn't matter who we vote for?? Some of the positions that Obama has taken make no sense, as Paul Begala said 'I would like to know the answer to that' when asked tonight why Obama, who once opposed spying on the American people, now oversees exactly what he claimed to oppose. Begala could not explain it. So he said 'I would like an explanation also'.

Ari Fleischer otoh, praised Obama for his NSA spying program, claiming, ridiculously, that he is 'protecting the American people.' Since when did traitors like Fleischer (Valerie Plame) care about protecting the American people?

 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
5. Speaking of Valerie Plame every single democratic supporter was against her info being leaked
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:49 AM
Jun 2013

everyone was against the leaker of Valerie Plame leaker that put national security in danger and people in danger after the leak

should apply straight forward to any other leaker now shouldn't it?

I think so and I am against all leakers and hackers and am consistent on it.

BTW, the President never said he was for it.

He laid a challenge down.

Now the republicans can undo what they did in the first place, or are they bluffing?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
7. Valerie Plame was guilty of War Crimes? That's news to me.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 12:56 PM
Jun 2013

I thought she was working undercover to try to find WMDs.

Cheney/Bush/Rummy/Rice otoh are war criminals and so far, they got off scott free unlike Plame who they targeted as punishment because her husband exposed the lies they were telling.

Not following your logic at all, can you point to any comparison in these two issues? Criminals deserve to be exposed, do they not? The same criminals who placed Valerie Plame in so much danger. Why do want to protect them?

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
6. "I wonder just how powerful these corps are now,
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:49 AM
Jun 2013

powerful enough that it doesn't matter who we vote for?"

It seems like the status quo (PTB) effectively steal our "democracy" BEFORE the elections, doesn't it?

They funnel enormous amounts of money to hand-picked candidates that they KNOW will serve their agenda before they even get to the main election. It is shocking and depressing to me how stacked the bench is for TPTB amongst elected Democratic officials. TPTB have clearly, to my mind, been effective at placing people within the Democratic Party ("New Democrats&quot that will betray the Democratic Party's platform to support their neo-liberal agenda.

We're going to have to change the system before we ever get enough "better Democrats" to even begin to reverse the course we've been on for so long. While "winning" a few elections here and there every few years may feel good, it's simply not enough to deliver any threat to TPTB and their continuing agenda. TPTB win a majority of the elections through their hand-picked candidates and the massive amounts of money they use to get them Party nominations. Their candidates become the "obvious" choice to secure nominations time after time. They are "inevitable", and they will ensure we follow the same path we've been on for decades.

I am going to have to vote for McAuliffe in Virginia's governor election, but I have little to no expectation that Terry will serve the interests of the average Virginian over the corporations and the wealthy. So for me, on economic issues, it only matters on a relative scale who I vote for.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
9. Excellent post. I am seriously beginning to question the wisdom now of electing
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 01:02 PM
Jun 2013

'the lesser evil' such as you are faced with. The people need to completely change what they have been doing as repeating the same thing over and over again will get the same results over and over again.

I am giving a lot of thought to this now before the next election. Maybe eg, we should put all of our efforts in actual, real Democrats rather than waste time in our states on Third Wayers who are the same as voting for a Republican. We KNOW the party leadership will pour money into beating actual Progressive Dems. So what if we ALL focused on real Dems even if not in our districts to make sure that they are not beaten by big money? And then little by little we might be able to get somewhere.

I would rather have one great Democrat than two Dinos who we know will vote with Repubs anyhow. But by focusing on our own areas trying to get Dinos elected, when we could pour all the effort into real Dems, that seems like a better strategy to me at this point.

 

Zavulon

(5,639 posts)
12. Like you, I'll vote for McAuliffe, and like you
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 09:01 AM
Jun 2013

I have no optimism about him serving the interests of the average Virginian. I'm a Democrat and I vote straight-ticket Democrat, but I freely admit that at this point it's mostly by default.

MrScorpio

(73,630 posts)
4. I believe that you're absolutely correct
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 06:43 AM
Jun 2013

It's the worst case of Mission Creep ever to happen to our government.

It's also the fault of a giant bureaucracy that's been given a carte blanche to do what most other giant bureaucracies also do, but those others are closely supervised in comparison... In which they all follow their preeminent responsibility: To perpetuate itself, to grow itself and to find any way to make itself indispensable.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Here's what I believe. I...