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marmar

(76,982 posts)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:51 AM Jun 2013

Eugene Robinson: The End of the Right of Privacy?


from truthdig:


The End of the Right of Privacy?

Posted on Jun 6, 2013
By Eugene Robinson


Someday, a young girl will look up into her father’s eyes and ask, “Daddy, what was privacy?”

The father probably won’t recall. I fear we’ve already forgotten that there was a time when a U.S. citizen’s telephone calls were nobody else’s business. A time when people would have been shocked and angered to learn that the government is compiling a detailed log of ostensibly private calls made and received by millions of Americans.

The Guardian newspaper of Britain reported Thursday night that the U.S. government is collecting such information about customers of Verizon Business Network Services, one of the nation’s biggest providers of phone and Internet services to corporations. The ho-hum reaction from officials who are in the know suggests that the government may be compiling similar information about Americans who use other phone service providers as well.

The Guardian got its scoop by obtaining a secret order signed by U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Since we know so little about this shadowy court’s proceedings and rulings, it’s hard to put the Verizon order in context. The instructions to Verizon about what information it must provide take up just one paragraph, with almost no detail or elaboration. The tone suggests a communication between parties who both know the drill. .............................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_end_of_the_right_of_privacy_20130606/



35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Eugene Robinson: The End of the Right of Privacy? (Original Post) marmar Jun 2013 OP
Privacy has been on life support the last few decades Kelvin Mace Jun 2013 #1
du rec. xchrom Jun 2013 #2
Welcome to 2003, Mr. Robinson. reformist2 Jun 2013 #3
Governments and other authorities (police, etc..) should have to Solly Mack Jun 2013 #4
They do jump through hoops. That's why there is a legal warrant for the metadata collection. randome Jun 2013 #5
Yes, I feel ever so much better knowing members of Congress who rubber stamped Bush's Solly Mack Jun 2013 #6
I agree the Patriot Act is abominable. randome Jun 2013 #7
It's a continuation of it all that is the outrage. Solly Mack Jun 2013 #8
Foolish me, I can remember when a search warrant had to be specific. n/t A Simple Game Jun 2013 #18
A court order can be much more broad in scope. MineralMan Jun 2013 #35
He's correct to foresee the end of privacy as we've known it alcibiades_mystery Jun 2013 #9
+1 n/t whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #32
It's surprising to me... kentuck Jun 2013 #10
+1 nt Javaman Jun 2013 #11
Exactly. Solly Mack Jun 2013 #12
It is an interesting question n2doc Jun 2013 #13
DURec Gus Lammas Jun 2013 #14
Russ mtasselin Jun 2013 #15
Some of us listened ... and complained ... but we were ignored. Myrina Jun 2013 #16
Russ should have run in 2008. Daniel537 Jun 2013 #20
True. 2004, 2008 ... whenever ... Myrina Jun 2013 #21
Privacy is really a quaint notion. Exultant Democracy Jun 2013 #17
Most likely EVERYONE will hold the power. randome Jun 2013 #23
It might just be our only hope. Exultant Democracy Jun 2013 #25
Governments response: Go after the leaker CanonRay Jun 2013 #19
Been reading this man for decades and he is always on the button. jwirr Jun 2013 #22
Mr. Robinson is great Skittles Jun 2013 #26
If I am not mistaken I first read his OP in the early 50s in our local newspaper. Been reading him jwirr Jun 2013 #27
50s? He was born in 1955 Skittles Jun 2013 #28
No typo - I am wrong. Sorry. I wonder who I was reading? He was black and a great liberal. Maybe I jwirr Jun 2013 #29
by any chance was it William Raspberry? Skittles Jun 2013 #30
That sounds very familiar. You may be right. Thanks. I do not like thinking I am forgetting to many jwirr Jun 2013 #31
oh do I hear you there!!! Skittles Jun 2013 #33
I suspect we are expecting too much of ourselves. The name of who I read in the newspaper when I jwirr Jun 2013 #34
I always wonder how people can put their entire lives on Facebook... Initech Jun 2013 #24
 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
1. Privacy has been on life support the last few decades
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:56 AM
Jun 2013

but the Bush administration unplugged the life support and the Obama administration was annoyed that it was still clinging to life, so they put the pillow over its face and wish it would hurry up and stop twitching already.

The part that utterly disgusts me are the number of "Democrats" who were outraged and screaming bloody murder when Bush did it, who are now perfectly OK with it since the guy they voted for is doing it.

Solly Mack

(90,740 posts)
4. Governments and other authorities (police, etc..) should have to
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:10 AM
Jun 2013

Last edited Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:15 AM - Edit history (1)

jump through multiple hoops to invade someone's privacy. To intrude on our rights. Government should not work to knock those hoops down. Not even in the name of national security.

There should be no blanket invasion but only targeted searches, and then only with reasonable cause they can back up with facts and evidence. All done through legal and accountable channels.

So it's not so much about an expectation of privacy as it is an expectation of maintaining our civil rights. Maintain our civil rights and we will have a reasonable expectation of privacy.


 

randome

(34,845 posts)
5. They do jump through hoops. That's why there is a legal warrant for the metadata collection.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:13 AM
Jun 2013

That's why there is Congressional review and approval every 90 days. Are we going to start second-guessing every legal warrant that's issued now?

It was Bush who tried to do this without jumping through hoops and he got slapped down for it.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

Solly Mack

(90,740 posts)
6. Yes, I feel ever so much better knowing members of Congress who rubber stamped Bush's
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:22 AM
Jun 2013

policies, who passed the "Patriot" Act , and who failed to hold Bush accountable in any way, are being defended as a protector of my rights because they jump through hoops they made easier to jump through with the Patriot Act.



http://www.aclu.org/free-speech-national-security-technology-and-liberty/reform-patriot-act-myths-realities

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
7. I agree the Patriot Act is abominable.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:26 AM
Jun 2013

But metadata collection of phone records doesn't rise to the level of 'outrage' to me.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

Solly Mack

(90,740 posts)
8. It's a continuation of it all that is the outrage.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:27 AM
Jun 2013

For me, it's about what people grow comfortable with, so acceptable of.....so conditioned to.

shudder

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
9. He's correct to foresee the end of privacy as we've known it
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:28 AM
Jun 2013

He would be more correct if he also historicized its origins. The problem with noting the end of privacy is usually wrapped up in not acknowledging its beginnings. The modern right to privacy is not some universal human feature that has been with us since Hammurabi, but a notion of recent vintage, tied to all kinds of culturally and historically contingent factors, including, of course, technological factors. Anyone who has been paying attention to any of this for the last 20 years knows that data tracking and storage technologies have steadily eroded a concept of privacy, and a practice of information gathering. Of course privacy will be different in 40 or 100 years. That should go without saying.

For awesome primers on some of these questions, I'd suggest

Elizabeth Neill's Rites of Privacy and the Privacy Trade: On the Limits of Protection for the Self (McGill, 2001)

and

Julie Cohen's excellent Configuring the Network Self: Law, Code, and the Play of Everyday Practice (Yale, 2012), available via Creative Commons license here: http://www.juliecohen.com/page5.php

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
10. It's surprising to me...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:36 AM
Jun 2013

that people think they can lose their 4 Amendment right and keep all the rest. If one is threatened, they are all threatened.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
13. It is an interesting question
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:55 AM
Jun 2013

And the other one is, "is all privacy the same?" Because Roe v Wade is predicated on a right to privacy also.

mtasselin

(666 posts)
15. Russ
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:12 AM
Jun 2013

Russ Feingold told us that this was going to happen in the anti-patriotic act that was rushed through after 911. Nobody I mean nobody would listen to him, if I recall correctly the vote for this anti-American act was 98 for and just one against. The American people must stand up now and demand that it be changed.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
16. Some of us listened ... and complained ... but we were ignored.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:20 AM
Jun 2013

Russ should have run for Prez in 2004.

 

Daniel537

(1,560 posts)
20. Russ should have run in 2008.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:14 AM
Jun 2013

But of course, that's assuming he would have kept his word on all these issues. I don't trust any politician on anything.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
21. True. 2004, 2008 ... whenever ...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:20 AM
Jun 2013

I'm a 'founding member' of his org Progressives United (PU for short LOL) and he issued a pretty scathing statement yesterday when this all hit the news. I like to think he'd have fought the good fight had he stayed in national politics, but knowing where the money and the power really lies, he would likely have been neutralized in one way or another.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
17. Privacy is really a quaint notion.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:22 AM
Jun 2013

Our children will speak of it tomorrow they way we speak about the telegraph today. The only question is who will hold the power, little brother or big brother.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
23. Most likely EVERYONE will hold the power.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:18 AM
Jun 2013

The Internet gives us all access to the world's data.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

CanonRay

(14,036 posts)
19. Governments response: Go after the leaker
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:00 AM
Jun 2013

Predictable and sad. Noe re-examination, no apology, no nothing but force.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
27. If I am not mistaken I first read his OP in the early 50s in our local newspaper. Been reading him
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:33 PM
Jun 2013

ever since.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
29. No typo - I am wrong. Sorry. I wonder who I was reading? He was black and a great liberal. Maybe I
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 08:51 AM
Jun 2013

am wrong about the date. I was born in 41 so it was probably 65.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
31. That sounds very familiar. You may be right. Thanks. I do not like thinking I am forgetting to many
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:36 PM
Jun 2013

things.

Skittles

(152,964 posts)
33. oh do I hear you there!!!
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:41 PM
Jun 2013

I have always been forgetful but now that I'm older I tend to assign more meaning to it - but I'm sure we are overreacting though!!

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
34. I suspect we are expecting too much of ourselves. The name of who I read in the newspaper when I
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:56 PM
Jun 2013

was 15 probably isn't really relevant.

Initech

(99,913 posts)
24. I always wonder how people can put their entire lives on Facebook...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 12:28 PM
Jun 2013

Then in the same breath wonder why their private lives are being spied on by the NSA and FBI?

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