General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm going to ask a question I post frequently on GD.
Again. When are you going to start holding Congress responsible for crafting bad laws and not providing for oversight either through adequate funding or in the letter of the law? When are you going to start electing people who represent your area in a meaningful manner?
There is plenty of blame to go around in this nation for a host of issues and the buck actually stops with the voter.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)"Damn you Alan Grayson! Why did you let this happen!!"
^^that's sarcasm.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Painful and it sucks, but it's the only way. That means NS committee heads, etc.
We will have to take out 'friendlies' to fix this because 'friendlies' voted for it and approved it.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)It seems to me that, no matter whom we elect, the police state marches on. It seems to know no party affiliation. What is a person of conscience to do?
-Laelth
Bucky
(53,793 posts)from Wikipedia on "despotism":
The Enlightenment philosopher Montesquieu believed that despotism was an appropriate government for large states. Likewise, he believed that republics were suitable for small states and that monarchies were ideal for moderate-sized states.
{snip}
According to Montesquieu, the difference between absolute monarchy and despotism is that in the case of the monarchy, a single person governs with absolute power by fixed and established laws, whereas a despot governs by her or his own will and caprice.
That is, as a country grows in size, the maintenance of the larger state requires a stronger executive, as the compenent parts of the nation either lapse into irresponsibility & corruption, or start to pull away into divergent geographic loyalties. This, then, compels the ruling central authority to intensify its power in the handling of various challenges to the center. The larger the state, the more you need the singular executive branch--which can respond quickly and with far greater flexibility than the pokey-like legislative branch.
Now, the US has historically beaten this size-limit on republics by the innovation of the federal system. Local perquisites can be acted upon, giving the dissenting localities just enough self control to prevent full-bore disloyalty to the federal republic breaking out (with just one bloody exception). But the continued growth of the country, the acquisition of a fully global economic empire, and the emergence of a national cultural in the age of telecommunications have all served to diminish the importance and power of state governments and state cultural identity.
Given that, the rise of the imperial presidency (mostly associated with Johnson and Nixon, but actually tracing back to FDR) was bound to happen. Large nations need quicker and more decisive action than what a republican government can provide--let alone a democracy with diverse populations can get around to agreeing on. Coupled with a fixed election cycle instead of the more responsive Parliamentary political structure, in which the popular mood doesn't have to wait until the next November to demand political action, we have a shrinking democracy in this country because the demands on the state are so urgent and diverse. The temptation on the president (be he freeing hostages, arming Contras, bombing Serbians, swiping our oil out from under somebody eles's sand, or keeping alert to shadowy terrorist plots) to go beyond the limits of the law, or those of traditional American moral parameters for "limited, transparent government," is tremendous.
If we were Romans or Ottomans or the Yuan Dynasty, we'd call America's current drift away from rule of law a case of "imperial overreach." We aspire to control the world in ways beyond what our form of government can sustain. And that's why Obama lovehates his drones and Republicans don't give a shit about shutting down the government. The size of the country makes the government as a system "want" to be a ruleless despot and as much as it makes the opposition act without keeping an eye on how they harm the general public.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Well played. But now answer the question. Skid's asking when are you personally going to start holding Congress responsible. And by that, he obviously means unelecting all of them out of office en masse. Well? When are you going to personally unelect every member of Congress? I think you should do that this coming week.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Ninga
(8,266 posts)not moved or afraid of words. If words worked, then we would see some sort of progress because of the millions and millions of words thrown at politicians every day.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Ninga
(8,266 posts)sitting at a keyboard with their slippers on, typing with indignation.
The ruthless GOP continues to run roughshod over the working class, unions, poor folk, women, minorities and children while "citizen soldiers " eyes glazed over -sigh and exclaim that the tea activists are a flash in the pan.
The tea party continues to give clinic after clinic on how to capture headlines and attention - and they number how many? 100,000 in a country of over 350 million.
I have had debates here about how it is not enough to say Obama won....either we take to the streets or get used to bending over and taking what the GOP gives....
Additionally, taking to the streets sends all slackers including Harry Reid, the same message.
mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)Rebuilding confidence in our government begins at the local and state level. I think we've gotten to this point by ignoring what's going on in our own back yard. District by district we're bringing Colorado back from the right wing cliff.
Nay
(12,051 posts)what's going on in our back yard." I know that I have mentioned the below information many times in the past few months, but here I go again:
In the last election in VA, Wayne Powell (D) ran against the odious Cantor in my VA district. He was polling 35-40% against Powell, and ended up getting 40-plus % of the vote. I met him personally, and IIRC, he said he had gotten NO $$ from DC Dem orgs to help with his campaign, even against a real little fuck like Cantor. Powell spend a couple hundred thousand, Cantor spent about 10 million! Cantor won.
THIS is what's happening. State and national Dem organizations are NOT supporting Dems in local races. At all. They don't send money, they don't stump for the candidate, nothing.
mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)I donated to Powell's campaign and to other local candidates instead of the DNC and will not donate to the DNC until they either get Howard Dean or someone just like him in charge.
Nay
(12,051 posts)still problematic that the 50-state strategy, which works astoundingly well (that's what the pubs have been doing for 35 years!), was DUMPED by the Dem leadership. It makes me really wonder what the hell is really going on.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Any clue as to why the DNC and other Democratic orgs. did not support Mr. Powell?
-Laelth
Nay
(12,051 posts)any, IIRC. If he was a nut, or just some nobody who was polling 3%, I can understand it, but he wasn't. He's a respected lawyer, served as asst. attorney general, is an Army vet (5yrs in, 25 reserves) and has lived here all his life. His son is in the service now. His daughter is a lawyer. I can only conclude that Cantor serves some Dem purpose unknown to us. I have suspected for years that we are in a good cop/bad cop trap, with both parties actually being bad cops, but the Dems are pretending to be good cops once in a while.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)But it appears that this case may, indeed, support the conclusion that we have a one-party, good cop/bad cop political system. Perhaps, given that Mr. Powell polled so well in his last bid, he might get some money thrown his way if he decides to run again? I should hope so.
-Laelth
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)The Link
(757 posts)Blame Bush.
Blame the judge that issued the warrant.
Blame Verizon.
Blame my phone.
Blame the NYT.
Blame Congress.
Blame the voters.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)The Link
(757 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)He's not alone in this debacle though.
Ninga
(8,266 posts)what it's like to take to the streets enmass....Vietnam demanded it.....with my son in a stroller I got off the side walk and joined the march.
We are a soft and passive citizenry - and the GOP knows it...
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Ninga
(8,266 posts)money, cable TeeVee, the Teas, GOP....we have strong collations who in turn have strong numbers...LBGT, Minorities, Women, Union, Teachers, etc,etc....
We have been steam rolled by our own lack of urgency - always pointing fingers at what the other guys aren't doing, while we sit on our collective butts.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Rulers used to claim they were appointed by an omnipotent father figure deity that was the ultimate surveillance. He could even see into your thoughts and secret desires and would burn you for all time if you misbehaved.
The State as such had magic powers granted to it from above and to this day there are people that believe NOTHING happens without it being the will of this father figure in the sky.
The basic attitude from the rulers was the people out there are stone dead stupid for believing that crap but these days the technology exists for them to actually do what they were bluffing about before.
It never occurred to them that the People could be trusted on their own. Further, the leaders have convinced themselves that they are the ones are at the wheel of civilization but (with only a few exceptions) they have been been the ones reluctantly dragged along.
Bucky
(53,793 posts)Terrible movie
Johonny
(20,674 posts)After he left I turned to my other co-worker and said "Why is he mad that the executive branch is using the power granted to it by the stupid idiots he loves in congress".
That's a bad voter right there!
Bucky
(53,793 posts)But going by your measure, if I haven't started holding them responsible, then you haven't either.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)The Republicans hated him, the Democrats despise him. Several key Congressional figures on both signs have continued to twist the truth.
It doesn't matter anymore who did what, garbage in garbage the crap comes out
H2O Man
(73,308 posts)I started when I turned 18, and could vote. (That was a heck of a long time ago!)
RT Atlanta
(2,517 posts)would be a step in the right direction from my perspective...
Brigid
(17,621 posts)bike man
(620 posts)using that procedure.
Every two years we can replace all of the House and 1/3 of the Senate. But for those who seek reelection, we see a success rate of about 90%, because as Eddie Murphy said in "Distinguished Gentleman" (a movie), we vote for "the name you know".
Elected officials know this too, and count on it.
mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)Voter suppression, gerrymandering, public education, all local issues.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Bucky
(53,793 posts)Gratuitous claims of disloyalty to the Democratic Party cast at phantom members who might happen to disagree with you don't actually help DU or promote the values of democratic debate that DU is supposed to serve.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I will put it up near my Nixon poster.
but you have yourself a good time, it won't last long so enjoy - these things usually die out in 2 days and you have to wait for the next round the Baggers and tv shills hand to you.
vanlassie
(5,637 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)They get visited by lobbyist on top of lobbyist and quickly realize that if they want to stay there (they all do), they have to play ball with the lobbyists and those they represent. Soon, they do not represent the voters who put them there, but the corporations and the 1%! Lets take the money out of politics to the extent we can, and elect candidates who will push for Complete Campaign Finance Reform (CCFR)! Then maybe we can get real problems solved!
UrbScotty
(23,979 posts)"I won't vote because it's too important, they're all the same, etc."
Baloney.
Not voting is worse than voting for the wrong candidates.
Bucky
(53,793 posts)Not voting is only half as bad as voting for the Republican. But I 100% agree that getting non-voters educated and engaged is vital goal for our side.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)There's plenty of blame to go around in Congress, but the President bears ultimate responsibility. If you want to blame yourself as a voter, go right ahead. For my part, I want some of these fuckers to burn.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Cha
(295,899 posts)xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Go enjoy your clique.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)routinely lie to the voters to get elected and then ignore them once in office.
Stop blaming the voter for the abuses of those in power.
Ninga
(8,266 posts)know that voters have 5 minute memories, can't be bothered, complain complain complain, and do nothing.
I participated in civil rights marches, and anti-Vietnam War demonstrations......many times....it took huge effort to carve out time to travel to a location, wait and wait and wait, and then march in the streets with other like-minded citizens. We were heard, we were photographed, we made a difference.
The voters today, by being passive, looking the other way, enable abuses, and the politicians know voters will not sacrifice personal comfort to take a stand.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Hold Congress responsible for crafting bad laws, just as I hold the POTUS responsible for signing them into law?
I write, I call, and I withhold campaign support, $$, and votes from those who vote for bad laws; I use those resources to support those who are doing the right thing and those groups who work to hold elected officials accountable and move issues forward.
In what way to you think I DON'T hold them accountable?
Ninga
(8,266 posts)calling, etc etc isn't working...hasn't affected Reid et al one stinkin bit.
This is not about you, it's about us!
LWolf
(46,179 posts)but it's sure not Skidmore's.
Ninga
(8,266 posts)and email seems to fall on politicians deaf ears, then voters collectively need to take to the streets.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I don't need you to explain it to me.
Do you need me to explain my response to you?
PsychoBunny
(86 posts)Is that the correct answer?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)PsychoBunny
(86 posts)I have been reading this site for awhile after some co-workers told me about it, but I just signed up this morning after all the furor these last weeks. Now I can use the search function! Yea!
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Nice
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)We are not victims of anything other than neglecting our civic duties as a nation and relying on dynasties too much.
librechik
(30,663 posts)Let's GO!! You say that it is established as a CONSTITUTION AMENDMENT now and there is no way to change anything until 2020?
call me back then, If I'm still alive...I've been such a slug. I'll Be there!
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)In this state we demanded fair representation and we do not have gerrymandering for either state or national reps. It can be done if the people have the will.
librechik
(30,663 posts)Other people may be in a position to do so, I only know what I see and I'm just a bystander.
And I have a bad hip, I can't even march, as if that made a difference anymore.
Is your state Colorado? Most of the time we have oppressive authoritarians running us. We got lucky last year, but it never seems to last. The Dems can do a little bit, then the PuKKKes storm back in and undo everything. I'm watching for my GO orders. My best friend's husband is a precinct captain, so I'm on the list if we decide to revolt!
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)How many people there would agree with you in your community? We turned our red county blue because we started to have actual conversations and not presume to be clairvoyant.
librechik
(30,663 posts)and the state can hardly be described as blue, altho there are blue counties. I live in Denver, the blue outpost, but we really only have about half the population and the rural conservatives beat us in the legislature over and over.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)He's one out of four. Iowans tend to be pragmatists. We are a purple state. Even Branstad knows better than to start pushing teabag nuttery. King is in the most conservative area of the state except for the heavily catholic area around Dubuque.
librechik
(30,663 posts)and now he's retiring. I was born in Iowa, and adore those folks and have been curious about the dynamics there--liberal v conservative. My cousin was the head of the Bush campaign there in 2000 and 2004! Good luck to the IA Dems in 2014.
bluedeathray
(511 posts)Is in favor of, beholden to, or financially benefitting from the governments current policies and furtherment of invasion of privacy?
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Realistically I would start checking handouts to big bidness first since the taxpayer is being required to underwrite their risk.
bluedeathray
(511 posts)"Bad" legislation (read- against their interests), as well as oversight issues which affect them.
Loudly, clearly and expensively (at least to my wallet).
But either way, the point stands.
And a corollary: The first point to understand about changing society (as a whole) is to realize we have exactly the society we want (also as a whole).
The reason excesses, abuses, and corruption occur is because enough people (or enough people with clout) WANT it that way.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)choose to run, if nobody ever holds THEM accountable for what they do or don't do. And, in case people haven't noticed, both sides of the aisle are pretty happy this is the case.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)are not working well.