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Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:33 AM Jun 2013

I'm going to ask a question I post frequently on GD.

Again. When are you going to start holding Congress responsible for crafting bad laws and not providing for oversight either through adequate funding or in the letter of the law? When are you going to start electing people who represent your area in a meaningful manner?

There is plenty of blame to go around in this nation for a host of issues and the buck actually stops with the voter.

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I'm going to ask a question I post frequently on GD. (Original Post) Skidmore Jun 2013 OP
can you provide an example of how this would work wrt the spying outrage? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #1
Primary the D's that voted for this or supported it in any way. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #43
It appears to me that "We the People" are not given the choice. Laelth Jun 2013 #2
+1 LittleGirl Jun 2013 #21
Montesquieu said it was inevitable, maybe even necessary, for the police state to evolve Bucky Jun 2013 #25
Excellent and informative post. Thank you. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #38
I know! I have NEVER seen ANY criticism of Congress here! MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #3
! Bucky Jun 2013 #16
Not even a good try. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #33
Criticism of Congress and who ever else has resulted in what exactly? Congress is Ninga Jun 2013 #27
The same can be said of Obama MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #34
I gave this an rec. The citizen voters in this country think being an activist means Ninga Jun 2013 #4
I gave it a rec too. Not so much for Congress, but for local politics. mountain grammy Jun 2013 #17
I'd like to interject the point here that national Dem orgs are the ones who have been "ignoring Nay Jun 2013 #22
For sure, an issue to be addressed. Howard Dean got it right with the 50 state strategy. mountain grammy Jun 2013 #32
That's what I do, too -- no money to any national orgs, only to the candidate personally. It is Nay Jun 2013 #37
That's shameful. Laelth Jun 2013 #39
I have no clue. When I talked to him, he said he had applied for some $$, but never got Nay Jun 2013 #46
I hate to see evidence supporting your theory. Laelth Jun 2013 #47
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #55
When they pull the wool back, bahrbearian Jun 2013 #5
Got it. Blame congress. The Link Jun 2013 #6
As I said, there is plenty of blame to go around. Skidmore Jun 2013 #7
How about the guy currently in charge? The Link Jun 2013 #10
He has his share of blame too. Skidmore Jun 2013 #14
Agreed. The Link Jun 2013 #26
I will be very surprised if your OP gets the traction it deserves. I am soon to turn 70, and know Ninga Jun 2013 #13
Yes. Soft and passive and unwilling to make waves. Skidmore Jun 2013 #15
Non-violent, peaceful, determined, well-organized, show of force taken to the streets TRUMPS Ninga Jun 2013 #24
Mostly the formula that created the mindset.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #40
Blame it on Brazil Bucky Jun 2013 #11
my co-worker came to me bitching that Obama was spying on him Johonny Jun 2013 #8
I'm sorry that I've not started to hold Congress responsible. I'll get on that right away. Bucky Jun 2013 #9
The only blame I see going around is on the president davidpdx Jun 2013 #12
Recommended. H2O Man Jun 2013 #18
term limits and end "career" politicians RT Atlanta Jun 2013 #19
And publicly financed elections too. Brigid Jun 2013 #44
We have a procedure to limit terms, and we create career politicians by not bike man Jun 2013 #80
We need to get back to local politics. mountain grammy Jun 2013 #20
Exactly. Recommended. (nt) NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #23
The Drudge Report fans here won't like this at all. n/t Whisp Jun 2013 #28
You earned today's McCarthy award! Congratulations. Bucky Jun 2013 #41
why, thankyouverymuch. Whisp Jun 2013 #53
Madea Benjamin is handling that for me. How 'bout you? vanlassie Jun 2013 #29
A fine good woman doing the work we should all be involved in. 1-Old-Man Jun 2013 #31
Yep. vanlassie Jun 2013 #49
Yes and no! You can vote your guy/gal into office, but what is it like for them when they get there Dustlawyer Jun 2013 #30
The buck also stops with the NON-voter UrbScotty Jun 2013 #35
You might wanna revisit your math. Bucky Jun 2013 #42
Next thing you'll want is term limits. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #36
The buck stops with the President of the United States DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #45
What a lame post. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #48
Your reply is pretty darned lame. Skidmore Jun 2013 #50
+1 L0oniX Jun 2013 #76
Actually, No.. it's your post that is extraordinarily lame. Cha Jun 2013 #82
Like why bother posting the obvious? Why not just post BE A DEMOCRAT? xtraxritical Jun 2013 #83
Which is why I vote issues and policies. Not politician or party. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #51
the voters are not to blame. congress and the executive branch bowens43 Jun 2013 #52
Why do voters allow this to happen, if they know in advance, it will? Because elected officials Ninga Jun 2013 #54
Why do you assume I don't? LWolf Jun 2013 #56
It doesn't work, which us my entire point. Writing, Ninga Jun 2013 #57
That might be your point, LWolf Jun 2013 #58
Skidmore's OP essentially says the buck stops with voters..And if voting, letter writing, calling Ninga Jun 2013 #73
I know what Skidmore's OP says, lol. LWolf Jun 2013 #75
The next time I vote? PsychoBunny Jun 2013 #59
Welcome to DU my friend! hrmjustin Jun 2013 #60
Thank you PsychoBunny Jun 2013 #65
Blame the victim usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #61
Either we have the government of the people or we don't. Skidmore Jun 2013 #62
sure. We can just kick down the doors of the leg. and demand that gerrymandering be abolished. librechik Jun 2013 #63
You should. Skidmore Jun 2013 #64
I will, if the opportunity arises librechik Jun 2013 #66
I live in Iowa. Skidmore Jun 2013 #68
yeah, but you still have Steve King. librechik Jun 2013 #69
King represents the northwestern corner of the state. Skidmore Jun 2013 #71
I have always admired Harkin and wondered how the fuck he does it librechik Jun 2013 #74
Realistically- What percentage of the US population bluedeathray Jun 2013 #67
Private citizens or corporations? Skidmore Jun 2013 #70
Corporations already protest bluedeathray Jun 2013 #72
Not exactly how Harry S put it. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #77
It's all VERY convenient for them, isn't it? They serve for life as long as DevonRex Jun 2013 #78
It is our duty as citizens to educate others when things Skidmore Jun 2013 #79
Yes it is. nt DevonRex Jun 2013 #81

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
1. can you provide an example of how this would work wrt the spying outrage?
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:41 AM
Jun 2013

"Damn you Alan Grayson! Why did you let this happen!!"

^^that's sarcasm.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
43. Primary the D's that voted for this or supported it in any way.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:38 AM
Jun 2013

Painful and it sucks, but it's the only way. That means NS committee heads, etc.
We will have to take out 'friendlies' to fix this because 'friendlies' voted for it and approved it.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
2. It appears to me that "We the People" are not given the choice.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:42 AM
Jun 2013

It seems to me that, no matter whom we elect, the police state marches on. It seems to know no party affiliation. What is a person of conscience to do?



-Laelth

Bucky

(53,793 posts)
25. Montesquieu said it was inevitable, maybe even necessary, for the police state to evolve
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:47 AM
Jun 2013

from Wikipedia on "despotism":

The Enlightenment philosopher Montesquieu believed that despotism was an appropriate government for large states. Likewise, he believed that republics were suitable for small states and that monarchies were ideal for moderate-sized states.

{snip}

According to Montesquieu, the difference between absolute monarchy and despotism is that in the case of the monarchy, a single person governs with absolute power by fixed and established laws, whereas a despot governs by her or his own will and caprice.


That is, as a country grows in size, the maintenance of the larger state requires a stronger executive, as the compenent parts of the nation either lapse into irresponsibility & corruption, or start to pull away into divergent geographic loyalties. This, then, compels the ruling central authority to intensify its power in the handling of various challenges to the center. The larger the state, the more you need the singular executive branch--which can respond quickly and with far greater flexibility than the pokey-like legislative branch.

Now, the US has historically beaten this size-limit on republics by the innovation of the federal system. Local perquisites can be acted upon, giving the dissenting localities just enough self control to prevent full-bore disloyalty to the federal republic breaking out (with just one bloody exception). But the continued growth of the country, the acquisition of a fully global economic empire, and the emergence of a national cultural in the age of telecommunications have all served to diminish the importance and power of state governments and state cultural identity.

Given that, the rise of the imperial presidency (mostly associated with Johnson and Nixon, but actually tracing back to FDR) was bound to happen. Large nations need quicker and more decisive action than what a republican government can provide--let alone a democracy with diverse populations can get around to agreeing on. Coupled with a fixed election cycle instead of the more responsive Parliamentary political structure, in which the popular mood doesn't have to wait until the next November to demand political action, we have a shrinking democracy in this country because the demands on the state are so urgent and diverse. The temptation on the president (be he freeing hostages, arming Contras, bombing Serbians, swiping our oil out from under somebody eles's sand, or keeping alert to shadowy terrorist plots) to go beyond the limits of the law, or those of traditional American moral parameters for "limited, transparent government," is tremendous.

If we were Romans or Ottomans or the Yuan Dynasty, we'd call America's current drift away from rule of law a case of "imperial overreach." We aspire to control the world in ways beyond what our form of government can sustain. And that's why Obama lovehates his drones and Republicans don't give a shit about shutting down the government. The size of the country makes the government as a system "want" to be a ruleless despot and as much as it makes the opposition act without keeping an eye on how they harm the general public.

Bucky

(53,793 posts)
16. !
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:07 AM
Jun 2013

Well played. But now answer the question. Skid's asking when are you personally going to start holding Congress responsible. And by that, he obviously means unelecting all of them out of office en masse. Well? When are you going to personally unelect every member of Congress? I think you should do that this coming week.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
27. Criticism of Congress and who ever else has resulted in what exactly? Congress is
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:49 AM
Jun 2013

not moved or afraid of words. If words worked, then we would see some sort of progress because of the millions and millions of words thrown at politicians every day.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
4. I gave this an rec. The citizen voters in this country think being an activist means
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:57 AM
Jun 2013

sitting at a keyboard with their slippers on, typing with indignation.

The ruthless GOP continues to run roughshod over the working class, unions, poor folk, women, minorities and children while "citizen soldiers " eyes glazed over -sigh and exclaim that the tea activists are a flash in the pan.

The tea party continues to give clinic after clinic on how to capture headlines and attention - and they number how many? 100,000 in a country of over 350 million.

I have had debates here about how it is not enough to say Obama won....either we take to the streets or get used to bending over and taking what the GOP gives....

Additionally, taking to the streets sends all slackers including Harry Reid, the same message.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
17. I gave it a rec too. Not so much for Congress, but for local politics.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:18 AM
Jun 2013

Rebuilding confidence in our government begins at the local and state level. I think we've gotten to this point by ignoring what's going on in our own back yard. District by district we're bringing Colorado back from the right wing cliff.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
22. I'd like to interject the point here that national Dem orgs are the ones who have been "ignoring
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:35 AM
Jun 2013

what's going on in our back yard." I know that I have mentioned the below information many times in the past few months, but here I go again:

In the last election in VA, Wayne Powell (D) ran against the odious Cantor in my VA district. He was polling 35-40% against Powell, and ended up getting 40-plus % of the vote. I met him personally, and IIRC, he said he had gotten NO $$ from DC Dem orgs to help with his campaign, even against a real little fuck like Cantor. Powell spend a couple hundred thousand, Cantor spent about 10 million! Cantor won.

THIS is what's happening. State and national Dem organizations are NOT supporting Dems in local races. At all. They don't send money, they don't stump for the candidate, nothing.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
32. For sure, an issue to be addressed. Howard Dean got it right with the 50 state strategy.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:00 AM
Jun 2013

I donated to Powell's campaign and to other local candidates instead of the DNC and will not donate to the DNC until they either get Howard Dean or someone just like him in charge.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
37. That's what I do, too -- no money to any national orgs, only to the candidate personally. It is
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:28 AM
Jun 2013

still problematic that the 50-state strategy, which works astoundingly well (that's what the pubs have been doing for 35 years!), was DUMPED by the Dem leadership. It makes me really wonder what the hell is really going on.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
39. That's shameful.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:33 AM
Jun 2013

Any clue as to why the DNC and other Democratic orgs. did not support Mr. Powell?



-Laelth

Nay

(12,051 posts)
46. I have no clue. When I talked to him, he said he had applied for some $$, but never got
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:44 AM
Jun 2013

any, IIRC. If he was a nut, or just some nobody who was polling 3%, I can understand it, but he wasn't. He's a respected lawyer, served as asst. attorney general, is an Army vet (5yrs in, 25 reserves) and has lived here all his life. His son is in the service now. His daughter is a lawyer. I can only conclude that Cantor serves some Dem purpose unknown to us. I have suspected for years that we are in a good cop/bad cop trap, with both parties actually being bad cops, but the Dems are pretending to be good cops once in a while.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
47. I hate to see evidence supporting your theory.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 12:02 PM
Jun 2013

But it appears that this case may, indeed, support the conclusion that we have a one-party, good cop/bad cop political system. Perhaps, given that Mr. Powell polled so well in his last bid, he might get some money thrown his way if he decides to run again? I should hope so.

-Laelth

 

The Link

(757 posts)
6. Got it. Blame congress.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:59 AM
Jun 2013

Blame Bush.

Blame the judge that issued the warrant.

Blame Verizon.

Blame my phone.

Blame the NYT.

Blame Congress.

Blame the voters.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
13. I will be very surprised if your OP gets the traction it deserves. I am soon to turn 70, and know
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:05 AM
Jun 2013

what it's like to take to the streets enmass....Vietnam demanded it.....with my son in a stroller I got off the side walk and joined the march.

We are a soft and passive citizenry - and the GOP knows it...

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
24. Non-violent, peaceful, determined, well-organized, show of force taken to the streets TRUMPS
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:44 AM
Jun 2013

money, cable TeeVee, the Teas, GOP....we have strong collations who in turn have strong numbers...LBGT, Minorities, Women, Union, Teachers, etc,etc....

We have been steam rolled by our own lack of urgency - always pointing fingers at what the other guys aren't doing, while we sit on our collective butts.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
40. Mostly the formula that created the mindset....
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:34 AM
Jun 2013

Rulers used to claim they were appointed by an omnipotent father figure deity that was the ultimate surveillance. He could even see into your thoughts and secret desires and would burn you for all time if you misbehaved.

The State as such had magic powers granted to it from above and to this day there are people that believe NOTHING happens without it being the will of this father figure in the sky.

The basic attitude from the rulers was the people out there are stone dead stupid for believing that crap but these days the technology exists for them to actually do what they were bluffing about before.

It never occurred to them that the People could be trusted on their own. Further, the leaders have convinced themselves that they are the ones are at the wheel of civilization but (with only a few exceptions) they have been been the ones reluctantly dragged along.

Johonny

(20,674 posts)
8. my co-worker came to me bitching that Obama was spying on him
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:01 AM
Jun 2013

After he left I turned to my other co-worker and said "Why is he mad that the executive branch is using the power granted to it by the stupid idiots he loves in congress".

That's a bad voter right there!

Bucky

(53,793 posts)
9. I'm sorry that I've not started to hold Congress responsible. I'll get on that right away.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:02 AM
Jun 2013

But going by your measure, if I haven't started holding them responsible, then you haven't either.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
12. The only blame I see going around is on the president
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:05 AM
Jun 2013

The Republicans hated him, the Democrats despise him. Several key Congressional figures on both signs have continued to twist the truth.

It doesn't matter anymore who did what, garbage in garbage the crap comes out

 

bike man

(620 posts)
80. We have a procedure to limit terms, and we create career politicians by not
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 06:04 PM
Jun 2013

using that procedure.

Every two years we can replace all of the House and 1/3 of the Senate. But for those who seek reelection, we see a success rate of about 90%, because as Eddie Murphy said in "Distinguished Gentleman" (a movie), we vote for "the name you know".

Elected officials know this too, and count on it.



mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
20. We need to get back to local politics.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jun 2013

Voter suppression, gerrymandering, public education, all local issues.

Bucky

(53,793 posts)
41. You earned today's McCarthy award! Congratulations.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jun 2013

Gratuitous claims of disloyalty to the Democratic Party cast at phantom members who might happen to disagree with you don't actually help DU or promote the values of democratic debate that DU is supposed to serve.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
53. why, thankyouverymuch.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 12:53 PM
Jun 2013

I will put it up near my Nixon poster.


but you have yourself a good time, it won't last long so enjoy - these things usually die out in 2 days and you have to wait for the next round the Baggers and tv shills hand to you.

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
30. Yes and no! You can vote your guy/gal into office, but what is it like for them when they get there
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:57 AM
Jun 2013

They get visited by lobbyist on top of lobbyist and quickly realize that if they want to stay there (they all do), they have to play ball with the lobbyists and those they represent. Soon, they do not represent the voters who put them there, but the corporations and the 1%! Lets take the money out of politics to the extent we can, and elect candidates who will push for Complete Campaign Finance Reform (CCFR)! Then maybe we can get real problems solved!

UrbScotty

(23,979 posts)
35. The buck also stops with the NON-voter
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:08 AM
Jun 2013

"I won't vote because it's too important, they're all the same, etc."

Baloney.

Not voting is worse than voting for the wrong candidates.

Bucky

(53,793 posts)
42. You might wanna revisit your math.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:37 AM
Jun 2013

Not voting is only half as bad as voting for the Republican. But I 100% agree that getting non-voters educated and engaged is vital goal for our side.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
45. The buck stops with the President of the United States
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:41 AM
Jun 2013

There's plenty of blame to go around in Congress, but the President bears ultimate responsibility. If you want to blame yourself as a voter, go right ahead. For my part, I want some of these fuckers to burn.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
51. Which is why I vote issues and policies. Not politician or party.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 12:08 PM
Jun 2013
Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams
 

bowens43

(16,064 posts)
52. the voters are not to blame. congress and the executive branch
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 12:13 PM
Jun 2013

routinely lie to the voters to get elected and then ignore them once in office.

Stop blaming the voter for the abuses of those in power.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
54. Why do voters allow this to happen, if they know in advance, it will? Because elected officials
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 01:14 PM
Jun 2013

know that voters have 5 minute memories, can't be bothered, complain complain complain, and do nothing.

I participated in civil rights marches, and anti-Vietnam War demonstrations......many times....it took huge effort to carve out time to travel to a location, wait and wait and wait, and then march in the streets with other like-minded citizens. We were heard, we were photographed, we made a difference.

The voters today, by being passive, looking the other way, enable abuses, and the politicians know voters will not sacrifice personal comfort to take a stand.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
56. Why do you assume I don't?
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 01:17 PM
Jun 2013

Hold Congress responsible for crafting bad laws, just as I hold the POTUS responsible for signing them into law?

I write, I call, and I withhold campaign support, $$, and votes from those who vote for bad laws; I use those resources to support those who are doing the right thing and those groups who work to hold elected officials accountable and move issues forward.

In what way to you think I DON'T hold them accountable?

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
57. It doesn't work, which us my entire point. Writing,
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:35 PM
Jun 2013

calling, etc etc isn't working...hasn't affected Reid et al one stinkin bit.

This is not about you, it's about us!

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
73. Skidmore's OP essentially says the buck stops with voters..And if voting, letter writing, calling
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:52 PM
Jun 2013

and email seems to fall on politicians deaf ears, then voters collectively need to take to the streets.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
75. I know what Skidmore's OP says, lol.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:53 PM
Jun 2013

I don't need you to explain it to me.

Do you need me to explain my response to you?

 

PsychoBunny

(86 posts)
65. Thank you
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:05 PM
Jun 2013

I have been reading this site for awhile after some co-workers told me about it, but I just signed up this morning after all the furor these last weeks. Now I can use the search function! Yea!

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
62. Either we have the government of the people or we don't.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:53 PM
Jun 2013

We are not victims of anything other than neglecting our civic duties as a nation and relying on dynasties too much.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
63. sure. We can just kick down the doors of the leg. and demand that gerrymandering be abolished.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:57 PM
Jun 2013

Let's GO!! You say that it is established as a CONSTITUTION AMENDMENT now and there is no way to change anything until 2020?

call me back then, If I'm still alive...I've been such a slug. I'll Be there!

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
64. You should.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:02 PM
Jun 2013

In this state we demanded fair representation and we do not have gerrymandering for either state or national reps. It can be done if the people have the will.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
66. I will, if the opportunity arises
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:08 PM
Jun 2013

Other people may be in a position to do so, I only know what I see and I'm just a bystander.
And I have a bad hip, I can't even march, as if that made a difference anymore.

Is your state Colorado? Most of the time we have oppressive authoritarians running us. We got lucky last year, but it never seems to last. The Dems can do a little bit, then the PuKKKes storm back in and undo everything. I'm watching for my GO orders. My best friend's husband is a precinct captain, so I'm on the list if we decide to revolt!

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
68. I live in Iowa.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:12 PM
Jun 2013

How many people there would agree with you in your community? We turned our red county blue because we started to have actual conversations and not presume to be clairvoyant.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
69. yeah, but you still have Steve King.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:15 PM
Jun 2013

and the state can hardly be described as blue, altho there are blue counties. I live in Denver, the blue outpost, but we really only have about half the population and the rural conservatives beat us in the legislature over and over.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
71. King represents the northwestern corner of the state.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:26 PM
Jun 2013

He's one out of four. Iowans tend to be pragmatists. We are a purple state. Even Branstad knows better than to start pushing teabag nuttery. King is in the most conservative area of the state except for the heavily catholic area around Dubuque.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
74. I have always admired Harkin and wondered how the fuck he does it
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:19 PM
Jun 2013

and now he's retiring. I was born in Iowa, and adore those folks and have been curious about the dynamics there--liberal v conservative. My cousin was the head of the Bush campaign there in 2000 and 2004! Good luck to the IA Dems in 2014.

bluedeathray

(511 posts)
67. Realistically- What percentage of the US population
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:10 PM
Jun 2013

Is in favor of, beholden to, or financially benefitting from the governments current policies and furtherment of invasion of privacy?

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
70. Private citizens or corporations?
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:15 PM
Jun 2013

Realistically I would start checking handouts to big bidness first since the taxpayer is being required to underwrite their risk.

bluedeathray

(511 posts)
72. Corporations already protest
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:36 PM
Jun 2013

"Bad" legislation (read- against their interests), as well as oversight issues which affect them.

Loudly, clearly and expensively (at least to my wallet).

But either way, the point stands.

And a corollary: The first point to understand about changing society (as a whole) is to realize we have exactly the society we want (also as a whole).

The reason excesses, abuses, and corruption occur is because enough people (or enough people with clout) WANT it that way.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
78. It's all VERY convenient for them, isn't it? They serve for life as long as
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:41 PM
Jun 2013

choose to run, if nobody ever holds THEM accountable for what they do or don't do. And, in case people haven't noticed, both sides of the aisle are pretty happy this is the case.

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