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kpete

(71,981 posts)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:30 PM Jun 2013

It just dawned on me.....Greenwald got the media to bite on a story from 2006

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls
Updated 5/11/2006 10:38 AM ET
By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY


Gen. Michael Hayden, nominated by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic phone record collection program.


The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

............................

It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.

For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made — across town or across the country — to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others.

..................

way, way, way more:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
It just dawned on me.....Greenwald got the media to bite on a story from 2006 (Original Post) kpete Jun 2013 OP
then why are they threatening to investigate the leak? Enrique Jun 2013 #1
Interesting article FarCenter Jun 2013 #2
Already happening: JaneyVee Jun 2013 #4
I think the retraction is the lie. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #17
After reading Greenwald's latest missive promising more leaks in the near future sweetloukillbot Jun 2013 #6
What leaked was specific documents authorizing what we already knew was, in general... Silent3 Jun 2013 #3
Please . . . caseymoz Jun 2013 #19
No, I don't "remember"...Obama said he supported a FISA compormise before he was elected uponit7771 Jun 2013 #27
+1 DCBob Jun 2013 #32
No. He got one warrant. In secret. caseymoz Jun 2013 #33
Must have outrage, must have scandals..... Historic NY Jun 2013 #5
The "media" wasn't the only thing that GG got to Cha Jun 2013 #7
But the outrage, I tell you the outrage! Iliyah Jun 2013 #8
Does that mean the GOP now admit Obama is an American? still_one Jun 2013 #26
K & R SunSeeker Jun 2013 #9
The media and DevonRex Jun 2013 #10
More discussion in this earlier thread on the article. bike man Jun 2013 #11
K&R! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #12
I'm so happy to read this .. this started occurring to me today as well! Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #13
Pssst! Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #14
But . . . . JDPriestly Jun 2013 #15
He's not doing warrantless wiretaps, unlike Bush. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #24
Meh.......computer says no. Th1onein Jun 2013 #16
This dawned on you? caseymoz Jun 2013 #18
Of course this is not news. DeSwiss Jun 2013 #20
Where in Greenwald's story does it talk about warrantless wiretaps? sweetloukillbot Jun 2013 #22
Take your.... DeSwiss Jun 2013 #25
Alas, apart from the author, none of the links you posted have anything to do with the June 5 story sweetloukillbot Jun 2013 #28
This is not about Glenn Greenwald.... DeSwiss Jun 2013 #29
The top secret rulings of FISA and the top secret NSA programs are common knowledge? sweetloukillbot Jun 2013 #31
Works every time. ucrdem Jun 2013 #21
The media and 2/3 DUers -- pnwmom Jun 2013 #23
No, he didn't? Spider Jerusalem Jun 2013 #30
And, who sees this information? Not just a Govt. Controlled agency but KoKo Jun 2013 #38
There you have it Berlum Jun 2013 #34
Two more minutes of Greenwald hate MNBrewer Jun 2013 #35
Greenwald is the classic mudslinger... SidDithers Jun 2013 #36
"Obama's political courage should not be minimized" Enrique Jun 2013 #37
 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
2. Interesting article
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:44 PM
Jun 2013
Journalists involved in The Guardian and Washington Post articles have reported in depth on WikiLeaks, the website known for publishing secret U.S. government documents.

The Post report on the PRISM program was co-written by Laura Poitras, a filmmaker who has been working on a documentary on WikiLeaks, with the cooperation of its founder Julian Assange, and who last year made a short film about Bill Binney, a former NSA employee who became a whistleblowing critic of the agency.

Last year, the web magazine Salon published a lengthy article by the author of the Guardian report, Glenn Greenwald, accusing U.S. authorities of harassing Poitras when she left and re-entered the United States. Greenwald also has written frequently about Assange.

The Guardian and Post stories appeared in the same week that U.S. Army Private First Class Bradley Manning went on trial in Maryland accused of leaking hundreds of thousands of classified documents to WikiLeaks.

In an email to Reuters on Friday, Poitras rejected the notion that the trial had any impact on the timing of her story.


The Guardian and Washington Post will be backpedaling away furiously in the near future.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
17. I think the retraction is the lie.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:15 AM
Jun 2013

Remember, under the Patriot Act, all the companies that collect this information from us and then give it to the government are prohibited from talking about it.

It's like 1984. It is 1984. And Obama is in the middle of it and has the power to change it.

sweetloukillbot

(11,004 posts)
6. After reading Greenwald's latest missive promising more leaks in the near future
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:03 AM
Jun 2013

I'm convinced this is because of the Manning trial. The timing, the cavalier attitude about the questions that are arising about his "reporting" on PRISM and the "government shall have no secrets" tone of the post tell me he's fancying himself as the heir to Manning and Assange's mantles.

Silent3

(15,190 posts)
3. What leaked was specific documents authorizing what we already knew was, in general...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:50 PM
Jun 2013

...being authorized since 2006. The surveillance sucked then just as it sucks now, but nothing that truly very new has been revealed, making it more than a bit hypocritical for some people who yawned when Bush started this to be having a sudden freak out over it.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
19. Please . . .
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:30 AM
Jun 2013

. . . the news is it's President Obama and not Bush. He was supposed to reverse, not extend, Bush's illegal policies. Remember?

Weren't we supposed to have a president this time who followed at least the first promise of his Oath of Office, that part about protecting and upholding the Constitution?

Read the the 4th Amendment. Try to reconcile it to this massive wiretapping. You can't.

I'll ask what I asked Kpete: were expectations for President Obama really that low? If you didn't dream of having your rights restored and protected, why did you help elect him?

Was it just because he pronounced "nuclear" right?

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
27. No, I don't "remember"...Obama said he supported a FISA compormise before he was elected
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 04:47 AM
Jun 2013

...and no one payed attention to it.

Not only that Obama got warrants Bush didn't, don't see how that is so complicated

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
33. No. He got one warrant. In secret.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 09:03 AM
Jun 2013

To spy on everybody. So, technically you're close to right. He got a warrant.

If Bush had gotten a warrant to do this, would you be satisfied?

Before I go scouring videos to try to find what I know he said and when he said it, you really don't find the fact that he broke his oath of office twice to be more important serious than breaking a campaign promise? Here's the Oath of Office, the minimal promise he's expected to keep:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Here's the 4th Amendment of the Bill of Rights:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Was there probable cause to this data mining? Yes or No.

Does mass surveillance preserve, protect or defend the 4th Amendment. Yes or No.

Does mass surveillance do the opposite? Yes or No.

If your answer is no to the first two and yes to the last, then you think he broke his oath of office, no if's, and's or but's, and you don't care. Would you really care if if I found a campaign promise he broke, then? Yes or No.

You would then get jade for Obama and say politicians always do that.

Now, be honest, did you really expect him to do this when you first elected him? Did you really listen to his campaign and think to yourself, "He supported a FISA compromise, he's going to be spying on all of us"? Were your standards for him really that low?

If so, what did you care about, then? That he pronounce "nuclear" correctly? Was that the sort of thing you were counting on him to do?

I expected a little better.


Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
5. Must have outrage, must have scandals.....
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:03 AM
Jun 2013

problem is the a--holes keeping stumbling over themselves to bring down hte administration with old bullshit recycling.

Cha

(297,123 posts)
7. The "media" wasn't the only thing that GG got to
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:35 AM
Jun 2013

bite on his BFD big breaking news story.

thanks kpete

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
8. But the outrage, I tell you the outrage!
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:15 AM
Jun 2013

Have you guys noticed that the GOPers are tying Pres O with Nixon, Reagan and now Bush. Its like they want to get far away from these GOP presidents. GOPers want YOU to believe that they are the most wonderful and caring party, and if that don't work, they are praying to their GAWD (devil) that Dems stay home just like 2010 and ya'know what happened huh.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
10. The media and
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:17 AM
Jun 2013

The GeeGees who always sing and dance to Greenwald's tune - no matter how freakin' old it is.
[URL=http://gifsoup.com/view/1197831/polka.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://gifsoup.com]GIFSoup[/URL]

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
13. I'm so happy to read this .. this started occurring to me today as well!
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:52 AM
Jun 2013

Taking advantage of people wanting to kick
the President while he's down, slipping in a
little funny ammunition

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
18. This dawned on you?
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:22 AM
Jun 2013

Never mind Obama was supposed to reverse and not push Bush's policies farther. The fact, "Oh, they said this under Bush!" is a total distraction. This is Obama. That's what's different from 2006. And that's the news.

I'm curious, if you ignore President Obama sending the Constitution through a woodchipper like Bush, what the hell was the dream you had in electing him? Are you just happy we don't have the Presidential gaff of the day? You'll accept he doesn't keep his Oath of Office, if he pronounces "nuclear" right? Is that really how low your expectations were for President Obama?
 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
20. Of course this is not news.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:34 AM
Jun 2013

There is no surprise here. Senator Obama campaigned against what the NSA was doing back in 2008:



"My job this morning is to be so persuasive...that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Barack," he told a crowd of about 300 Ivy Leaguers--and, by the looks of it, a handful of locals who managed to gain access to what was supposed to be a students-only event.

For one thing, under an Obama presidency, Americans will be able to leave behind the era of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and "wiretaps without warrants," he said. (He was referring to the lingering legal fallout over reports that the National Security Agency scooped up Americans' phone and Internet activities without court orders, ostensibly to monitor terrorist plots, in the years after the September 11 attacks.)

It's hardly a new stance for Obama, who has made similar statements in previous campaign speeches, but mention of the issue in a stump speech, alongside more frequently discussed topics like Iraq and education, may give some clue to his priorities.


link


[center]
[/center]

- The question is, what happened to the promise to end the "wiretaps without warrants" era of Bush/Cheney?

sweetloukillbot

(11,004 posts)
22. Where in Greenwald's story does it talk about warrantless wiretaps?
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:58 AM
Jun 2013

Seems that the article is about a FISA *warrant* that was used to data mine phone metadata, not *wiretaps*.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
25. Take your....
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 03:37 AM
Jun 2013

...pick. He's talking about both. And any FISA warrant might as well be written on the f%@king wind since you can't see it, taste it or smell it unless you have clearance. Secret Courts do not meet Constitutional muster in my world.

- I can't speak for anyone else.....

Thursday, Apr 1, 2010 07:02 AM CST

[font size=3]The criminal NSA eavesdropping program[/font]
The court's ruling yesterday was a scathing repudiation of the Obama DOJ's Bush-copying tactics

By Glenn Greenwald



http://www.salon.com/2010/04/01/nsa_4/

sweetloukillbot

(11,004 posts)
28. Alas, apart from the author, none of the links you posted have anything to do with the June 5 story
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 05:30 AM
Jun 2013

We're talking about a story that Greenwald wrote and the Guardian published on June 5, that claimed that the Obama administration had obtained a FISA warrant to data mine metadata from phone records.
What I take away from my reading is that warrantless wiretaps were happening under Bush, they were ordered stopped, and guidelines as to how this evidence could be gathered were put in place, involving FISA approval and Congressional oversight. This article proves that those guidelines are being followed - again, it shows that a warrant was obtained and data mining, not wiretapping, was done in accordance with that warrant. Maybe the NSA is ignoring the ruling of their secret court and wiretapping anyhow, but if that was the case, why the need for a secret court pumping out secret documents that contradict the secret actions of the NSA?

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
29. This is not about Glenn Greenwald....
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 05:44 AM
Jun 2013

What he's been talking about is common knowledge and a decent Google search will bear this out. As I stated above, the technical points matter little now. They're getting all the info on everyone and have been for sometime.

Your tax dollars at-work:

The NSA Is Building the Country’s Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say)

By James Bamford | 03.15.12 | 7:24 PM



http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/


sweetloukillbot

(11,004 posts)
31. The top secret rulings of FISA and the top secret NSA programs are common knowledge?
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 05:54 AM
Jun 2013

Wow. I must be out of touch then, because the only FISA warrant I've read doesn't say anything about them conducting warrantless wiretaps. Quite the opposite, actually.

And since this is common knowledge, they're doing a piss-poor job keeping it top secret.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
30. No, he didn't?
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 05:45 AM
Jun 2013


April 2013 is, last time I checked, a lot more recent than 2006 (and the compliance of pretty much every major social network and email provider is also news).

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
38. And, who sees this information? Not just a Govt. Controlled agency but
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 10:33 AM
Jun 2013

those Companies like Chertoff Group or others who have access to this information. If they have access who knows how they use it? Are they compiling profiles to give to Internet Advertisers? Profiles for Research in other areas by other agencies? Non Government controlled Contractors can do a lot with this mass of information in Data Bases. It's expanded since Bush and that's the worry. Who besides some Government Agency sees all our phone numbers, tweets, photos, FaceBook posts Yahoo, G.Mail, Hot Mail and Skypes (which small businesses use extensively to save travel money in their budgets).

Our Government is Outsourcing this to other companies to do as part of supposedly cost savings. They pay PRISM $20,Million to Data Mine. Who works for PRISM...what do they do with the DATA besides give it to the Government. What other outside groups are allowed to Data Mine besides PRISM? Are there former Military involved in securing these contracts?

That's my worry from reading the information as it unfolds.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
36. Greenwald is the classic mudslinger...
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 09:08 AM
Jun 2013

If you fling mud often enough, eventually something will resonate.

It's the "journalistic" equivalent of posting hundreds and hundreds of videos on YouTube, hoping something goes viral.

Sid

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
37. "Obama's political courage should not be minimized"
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 09:19 AM
Jun 2013

Greenwald says what he thinks. And whether he's praising him or criticizing him he's thoughtful about it.

Unlike people that never say anything themselves, they just shoot snarky one-liners or post

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/17-7

Numerous commentators are objecting to the idea that Barack Obama deserves credit for his release of the OLC torture memos yesterday in light of his accompanying pledge that CIA officials relying in good faith on those memos won't be prosecuted. Chris Floyd is one who articulates that objection quite well and, as is always true for Chris, his criticisms are well worth reading. Many others -- including Keith Olbermann, Jonathan Turley, John Dean and Bruce Fein -- yesterday lambasted Obama for his anti-prosecution stance. Since I gave substantial credit to Obama yesterday for the release of the memos and believe even more so today that he deserves it (despite finding the anti-prosecution case as corrupted and morally bankrupt as ever), I want to return to the issue of Obama's actions.

(...)

Beyond those generalities, I think the significance of Obama's decision to release those memos -- and the political courage it took -- shouldn't be minimized. There is no question that many key factions in the "intelligence community" were vehemently opposed to release of those memos. I have no doubt that reports that they waged a "war" to prevent release of these memos were absolutely true. The disgusting comments of former CIA Director Mike Hayden on MSNBC yesterday -- where he made clear that he simply does not believe in the right of citizens to know what their government does and that government crimes should be kept hidden-- is clearly what Obama was hearing from many powerful circles. That twisted anti-democratic mentality is the one that predominates in our political class.

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