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2ndAmForComputers

(3,527 posts)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:52 PM Jun 2013

The 4 Types of People on Welfare Nobody Talks About

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-types-people-welfare-nobody-talks-about

Do read it all. And for those about to blather right-wing arguments, I direct you to the three last sentences before the lemon bar picture.

#3. People Trapped in (and by) the System

(...) Getting out of poverty requires massive sacrifices. This is the part that seems to be the hardest for others to understand, because the easy answer is "Well, no shit, I sacrifice hobbies, sleep, and even time with my family for my career. If I can do it, you can do it, too, Poor Person!" But urging someone to sacrifice is making a huge, unspoken assumption: that they have something to sacrifice in the first place. If they're unemployed, they're in a Catch-22 where they need a car and a working phone to get a job, but they need a job to afford a car and a working phone (and yes, if you are lacking both of those things, your application is almost certainly going in the trash -- they won't hire somebody they can't call in for work on short notice).

And if they are employed, it's actually worse. This is why that stat about how most of the poor have jobs is so important -- it's one thing to ask somebody to sacrifice sleep and bong time in order to get a job, but it's another to ask them to sacrifice their paying job in favor of college classes or an internship that won't pay anything. At that level, the current employer doesn't give two shits what else you're trying to fit into your schedule. Throw kids into the mix, and it gets more complicated still. You can't get ahead because all of your time, money, and energy are being poured into just maintaining the life you're currently living.

That's how they get stuck in perpetual welfare. They're using 100 percent of their time, money, and efforts to maintain this level of basic life -- including the government assistance. Without some kind of outside intervention, they just never break free. This isn't theory -- I've seen it happen. I grew up with it. And it's terrifying to see that machine in action. After continually fighting it for so long, people just give up and resign themselves to that life.
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The 4 Types of People on Welfare Nobody Talks About (Original Post) 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2013 OP
If you don't start off with a good foundation and get it all done in a particular order... dkf Jun 2013 #1
And anyone with the health/skills/opportunity to get off welfare Warpy Jun 2013 #3
this is from cracked... I have read this writer FirstLight Jun 2013 #2
That is my biggest pet peeve, people who dismiss the poor out of hand usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #4
thanks for your comments neversaydie Jun 2013 #9
Some are born to care, and some are born to be calloused. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #12
Yes It's disgusting. I chafe every time I hear poor-bashing Populist_Prole Jun 2013 #15
This needs more attention JayhawkSD Jun 2013 #5
He nailed it. Gormy Cuss Jun 2013 #6
That is so true. mercymechap Jun 2013 #7
I grew up fairly poor, it can be done. loose wheel Jun 2013 #8
Re-read the OP. 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2013 #16
could they survive? neversaydie Jun 2013 #10
You are making sense. Thanks. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #13
Excellent article. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #11
...and there's this... FirstLight Jun 2013 #14
 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
1. If you don't start off with a good foundation and get it all done in a particular order...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:59 PM
Jun 2013

It's very difficult. Having a supportive family life is the only relatively easy way to go.

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
3. And anyone with the health/skills/opportunity to get off welfare
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:28 AM
Jun 2013

will do so as quickly as possible because the whole system assumes you're just milking it and sets out to humiliate you and grind you down until there is nothing left.

Anyone who stays on it long term needs to be evaluated for things like clinical depression and borderline mental retardation. No one would actively choose that kind of humiliation and dehumanization voluntarily. Something else has to be going on.

FirstLight

(13,360 posts)
2. this is from cracked... I have read this writer
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:20 AM
Jun 2013

he did another depressingly awesome article about the way growing up poor fucks you up in later life.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I tell ya...tonite, it is almost to depressing to bear.

 

usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
4. That is my biggest pet peeve, people who dismiss the poor out of hand
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:37 AM
Jun 2013

I was lucky and able to (so far) get out of that cycle, but it wasn't easy, and luck + being a tall white guy had a lot to due with it, too.

I haven't forgotten where I came from and will not let a off hand remark at the office disparaging the poor go without challenging it, and using it as an educational opportunity... though some still resist the info I give them, some do turn around though it often takes years.

What really get's me are the ones who came from poverty, yet forget that and spout the RW BS talking points to try to fit in corporate america, though I got an 'up-by-your-bootstraps' story that is hard to top, I point out every way I was only able to get where I am today with the help of many, MANY people and institutions, that they rely on, too but often over look.

Thanks for sharing

neversaydie

(69 posts)
9. thanks for your comments
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:54 AM
Jun 2013

and keep fighting the good fight. I am always trying to turn people around when discussions like this pop up. And I have been successful at making at least a few people re-think their positions.

As for the bootstraps, I recall being much younger and hearing a friend of my mother talk about "the poor" and people on welfare. She started out poor but is very well-to-do now. She said that "those people" should just "pull them up by their bootstraps, like I did".

I asked her what if they didn't own a pair of boots. My mom shot me a look and I let it go. But I never forgot it.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
12. Some are born to care, and some are born to be calloused.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:29 AM
Jun 2013

I really think that you are one of the lucky ones born with a good soul. Thanks for your post. Seems you were loving as a child. What a wonderful gift. I bet your family gave you lots of love whether or not they had money. And its the love from your family that makes the most difference.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
15. Yes It's disgusting. I chafe every time I hear poor-bashing
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 01:44 PM
Jun 2013

In a way, I'm glad I grew up poor. Gave me a perspective to appreciate just how good it feels not to be poor once one's life improves, but also that "poor" does not equal lazy & dissolute. It burns my arse to hear lower middle class types bash the poor, it's as though they're glad to at least have someone to look down on. In fact many people who are actually poor think they are middle class. I've heard so many of those types strut, preen, and beat their chests as they spout RW talking points about the bootstrap shit, the "I did it, so can you" stuff.....when they are just one unfortunate event away from being certifiably poor: An injury/illness, Their boss waking up on the wrong side of the bed one day and deciding to sell out and shit-can their employees.

It depends on whose ox is being gored. Some lack the empathy to see this. I'm glad I'm not one of them.

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
5. This needs more attention
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:04 AM
Jun 2013

It's easy to say that retraining programs are the answer, or education, or acquiring skills, but...

When a person is in the grist mill of working daily to the point of despair and exhaustion merely to survive, there are no resources available to engage in all of that. None of the people writing about these programs understand the numbing desperation of mere survival.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
6. He nailed it.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:24 AM
Jun 2013

This part had me snickering because it resonated so much"

Normal people don't buy new cars. They buy the hand-me-down, 200,000-mile piece of shit from their uncle for a couple hundred bucks. Normal people don't buy houses. They rent the cheapest shithole they can find because a house is just a place to keep the rain off of you. And normal people don't get cushy jobs that they enjoy. They work ball-crushing, exhausting labor for shitty pay and no benefits because that's just what people do. Any goals higher than that, and you're treated like an entitled little butt-fart who's "too good" for the people he grew up with. He "forgot where he came from."

mercymechap

(579 posts)
7. That is so true.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:34 AM
Jun 2013

I was fortunate to have been born into a family that was not rich, but we did have a roof over our heads. My parents worked hard and made sure that all three of their children attended school - there was no staying home because you didn't feel like going to school. I wasn't able to afford to go to college when I graduated, but went immediately into a job as a secretary. I made just barely enough to provide me with a few niceties. If it hadn't been for the fact that I lived with my parents, I wouldn't have been able to afford an apartment on my salary. Later, through perseverance, I was able to get a job with the government, that paid a whole lot more (for typist/steno). I got married young, and because contraceptives were not in the form of a pill that you could take every day, I had two children while I was still a child myself. I did everything I could to better myself and was able to get into a government program that would teach me to be a programmer. I started going to college at night and was able to progress into higher paying positions. When my first husband and I started having problems, I was afraid to get a divorce because I didn't think I could make it on my own with my salary, and if it hadn't been for my parents that would baby-sit for me when the kids were ill and not allowed in day-care, I probably wouldn't have been able to keep my job. I finally got promoted into a position where I knew I could take care of myself and my children, and got a divorce. I was single for 3 years and was able to take care of my kids and had a decent salary, but it was still living from payday to payday. Three years later, I married my 2nd husband, an officer in the AF, and though we were transferred to different areas of the country, I was always able to get a job with the government, sometimes I would have to go back to being a Secretary just to get my foot in the door, and eventually make it back to my career field. We now have a great life with great retirement pay, but I have a lot of sympathy for single moms because I know their struggle. I also have sympathy for people that are not fortunate to have extended families to pick up the slack when you are in a pinch. If it hadn't been for all the help of my mother and grandmother, I wouldn't be where I am today. I hate that conservatives feel everyone can make it, because not everyone gets the same breaks.

 

loose wheel

(112 posts)
8. I grew up fairly poor, it can be done.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:42 AM
Jun 2013

We weren't poor enough for food stamps, we usually had enough food. My Dad became a police officer when I was eight. Before that, he had worked as a mechanic on county school busses. He didn't make a lot of money, but he struggled through the local college and finished when I was sixteen and became a detective when I was seventeen. All I really remember growing up is that I never had things, even clothes as good as my friends seemed to have.

I became one of the working poor one day when I turned eighteen. I couldn't take my dad anymore and moved to the next county. I moved into a friend's basement and started working at a local convenience store.

About a year later, I got picked up to work in a local warehouse, and was getting paid a whole $9 and hour, unionized labor. It sucked. The union was no protection from being laid off, yet the union boss could come tap me on the shoulder and say we were going on strike at anytime, and I had to go no matter my opinion about it. I admit, I left with a bad taste in my mouth where the union was concerned. I felt I could have negotiated a better deal than what they got. So, immediately after their 2 day strike, I quit.

I dabbled in general contracting for a while, I made okay money. I realized that I was missing something that held me back so I started looking at options and heard of the university of phoenix. I went to work for another company, they had low pay, but offered to cover 100% of college credits. I through myself into it taking a full 15 credit load of courses and worked about 50 hours a week. I finished my degree in information technology management owing very little. I got promoted by the company and worked there for another year before I left for another, better offer. I worked for that company for about three years, then the recession hit and through a lot of us out of work.

I run my own company now, at the ripe old age of 32. The only financial help I've had through the years was somebody letting me sleep on a couch or raid their fridge occasionally. I never recieved a dime from my parents, even though my relations with them improved after I left. I've gone hungry. I've slept in my truck a few times. I've missed sleep because I had to write term papers and work the next day. I know what can be done. I started with nothing but a truck and a lousy attitude. It can be done.

neversaydie

(69 posts)
10. could they survive?
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:06 AM
Jun 2013

my sociology professor said that one of the projects he had to do was to survive for one month in a different city, without contact of friends or family, with just the shirt on his back and a social security card. he learned how to survive on the streets. I don't recall just how far he got in one month.

my point is that there are so many variable that can effect or determine the course of your life. and I hope I don't offend anyone but what I have learned is those variables include what your born into, healthy or unhealthy family relations, the color of your skin, whether you have a physical or emotional disability, do your parents, where your neighborhood is located(is there public transportation? are you close to gov't services or community programs?), the local economy, ... and there's luck. Sometimes it's just luck.

am I making sense? We really don't start with a level playing field.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
11. Excellent article.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:26 AM
Jun 2013

We have a friend who is just so shy and peculiar that he is unemployable. He is intelligent, but he cannot help the fact that he is so lacking in social skills and courage that he can't address people. We finally persuaded him to go and get food stamps because he was so thin and weak looking. But that was very difficult. If he goes anywhere, he rides the bus or gets a ride. He shops at the dollar discount stores for everything he has. It's really sad. He is not exactly mentally ill, but he isn't normal either.

Most people who are on assistance really need it and can't get by without it. Those of us who aren't on it should be very grateful that we can live without it and not begrudge it to those who take it because they really need it.

Can't we have some compassion. Of course, on DU, I am preaching to the choir. DUers are a compassionate group on the whole. Thanks. DUers.

FirstLight

(13,360 posts)
14. ...and there's this...
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 01:01 PM
Jun 2013

I am on TANF and have been struggling since before the bottom fell out of the economy. (lost my last 40-hour week job in 2006 because my daughter was diagnosed with a birth defect and I had to pursue doctors and my boss was a bitch and told me I couldn't take Dr. phone calls, schedule appts without her approval etc...) I was still struggling with PTSD from my abusive marriage and health issues of my own and managed to fail at even the slightest part-time secretary gig in 2008. So I have been feeling like a failure on top of it all for a few years.

So last fall and early this year, I decided that since the economy was going to take a few years to turn around, I'd finish my BA and then maybe be "marketable" once more. I had tons of transfer units and so I'll be done by next march...doing online classes and very happy, but it's hard...my brain is not as sharp as it was in my 20s, and the kids are older and need more attention even now at 10 & 11...

I finally got sick of the money crunch that comes with constantly having 'too much MONTH at the end of my money" and applied for a part time reception gig for the summer. I may not even get it because the first thing they said was that I seem 'overqualified' on my resume. (no shit, I got LIFE experience, assholes)
so - 20 hrs a week @ $10-12 per hour = $200 or so per week... sounds helpful right?

Boys & girls club and the rec center day camp for summer for 2 kids = $200/week

that $200 would also change my HUD rent and make it MORE expensive to live.
it would also DECREASE food stamps
it would also most likely lower cash aid

so what's the fucking POINT?

why should i make my life MORE stressful for LESS money at the end of the game?
I guess I'll just keep on doing what I am doing, maybe when I finish my BA I can get a "real" job and get off this once and for all... ya MAYBE...

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