To those who think it is okay for the government to

[choie]

spy on us (and that includes the gathering of so-called meta data crap) because it is being done by the trustworthy Obama administration, I ask this question:

WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF COUNTRY DO YOU WANT TO LIVE IN?

I'm sorry for the screaming, but I am so damn angry at some of the apathetic responses to the constant attack on our constitution.

[blkmusclmachine]

1. IOKIYAD say the CHEERLEADERS

I say, NO WAY!

[Roland99]

6. No, this is just Obama's mastery of political chess we're seeing

or something....

[awoke_in_2003]

24. Pawns are cheap. nt

[Malik Agar]

2. K+R

[shcrane71]

3. No one thinks it's OK.

This is the country that we've been living in for the past decade (if not more so). This story broke in 2006, and no one cared. Sorry it took you so long to get worked up about it.

[Dragonfli]

4. It appears Obama thinks it's OK

Many cared in 2006, we screamed bloody hell over it, mostly just Republicans embraced it back then. Back then it was reported as applying only to foreign correspondence. The new thing reported is that it has now become a blanket collection of ALL meta data from Verizon and likely others. They need to change the name of FISA to DISA since it is now mostly Domestic blanket warrants authorizing all data to be collected. You really should be pissed about the new developments.

[shcrane71]

47. Did you really think that a secret court WASN'T allowing for Americans to spied upon?

Even prior to 2006, we knew that peace activist groups were being infiltrated by government agencies. Michael Moore got that documented. It's nice that a true scandal may seem to have legs (unlike Benghazi or the IRS "scandals). However, we're already getting stories that WaPo's article wasn't factual. The NSA domestic spying scandal will most likely be buried.

[Autumn]

5. Had you been here in 2006 you would know that a fucking lot of people cared.

[shcrane71]

46. Was here in 2006. How else would I know about the scandal? sheesh.

It never took off in the MSM.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

8. Sorry your statement is demonstrably false

Actually, no I'm not.

[timdog44]

7. I know I am in the minority here.

But I think this is much ado about nothing. Do you think you are not being spied on already. Have you ever gone on line and looked at something you wanted to buy? Then the next time you go to any site, there is that product being advertised.

The next time some catastrophe happens in this country by a terrorist that could have been prevented by some looking at files that any idiot and his brother could have gathered, we would be yelling bloody hell because we (the government) did not do anything.

There are many other issues to get worked up about, and they are more important by magnitude than this.

THE KIND OF FUCKING COUNTRY I WANT TO LIVE IN IS A SAFE ONE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Sorry for the screaming, but lets get real here.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

9. This country was founded on stronger stuff than you possess.

And that's what's going to hold sway.

[timdog44]

12. I know I was going

to hear from people. But for to doubt my patriotism and belief in this country is very insulting. And to get all bent out of shape about something that even China or Israel or any other country in the world is doing to us is immature.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

13. Over the last two days, I've heard about how I get my talking points from Fox

And I've heard about how I'm just playing into Rand Paul's scheme. I've been called an imbecile. I'm still standing, and I'm still supporting the Constitution, no matter how unpopular i am with the crowd for whom domestic spying isn't a national disgrace.

[timdog44]

15. Thank you.

Someone to agree with.

I want more jobs, better health care and better education, among a myriad of other things. Let the people who are protecting us do their job and protect us.

[Android3.14]

23. Britney Spears?

Is that you?
"I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." - Britney Spears

[timdog44]

25. Who is this?

Lindsey Lohan. When did you escape therapy.

[choie]

11. That's goddamn pathetic..

I thought the premier tenet of the United States was supposed to be "freedom". But you're willing to do away with that to save your ass? As has been often been quoted:

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[timdog44]

14. So, you would

put Bradley Manning, Julian Assange and anonymous in prison? I like to think the people I helped to elect are looking out for my rights. And you can get all upset about freedoms, but you don't have as many as you think. Freedoms are always being modified for the common good. The Patriot Act was started by an asshole, does not mean it is the wrong thing to do.

[choie]

17. You can "like to think the people I helped to elect are

looking out for my rights" all you want - a very very naive statement at best - but it is up to us to hold them accountable. The patriot act was indeed a disgusting piece of legislation. It was started by an asshole and those who continue it are despicable as well.

[timdog44]

19. I take exception

to being naive. It is up to us hold them accountable for things that they need to be accountable for. I don't think this is the case here. I want to hold them accountable for jobs, health care and education. I understand this is obviously important to you, and I can respect. I just think our energies need be placed elsewhere. Like I said in an earlier post, I think China and India and Pakistan and Israel know more about us than we do. And they know more about our defenses than we do.

[1-Old-Man]

30. I've got to agree.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

16. You have been conditioned to be fearful.

Simple as that.

[timdog44]

18. I think the whole

point is that I am not fearful.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

45. Then why all the worry about being safe?

Or should I say, just feeling safe. I've lived in this country for 72 years, most of it not under surveillance.

[timdog44]

49. You don't know that.

We have been under surveillance since 1776. I've lived in this country for 65 years, all under surveillance.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

50. You're correct, I was under surveillance in 1967 (anti-war)

and most likely in 1963 (civil-rights), also for other activities that I shouldn't talk about, heh heh.

[timdog44]

51. I was involved in the demonstrations in Chicago

in 1968 at the Democratic National Convention. I think there were some other things I did, that if not surveilled probably should/could have been. I think the same heh heh is for the same reason. But I don't rightly recollect.

[pmorlan1]

22. Perspective

You have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than you do having a terrorist go after you. You are in far more danger of being killed in a car crash than you are of having a terrorist attack you. Why are you so willing to give up our rights for the mere illusion of safety?

[timdog44]

27. A couple things.

I think our emails, social media, and phone calls are so transparent that for the government to monitor them is over blown.

And in that vein, if lightning strikes me, I die. If a terrorist strikes, thousands can die and countless other thousands can be injured. If we can stop that, more power to them. So I don't think we have an illusion of safety here. I fear more the other scoundrels who can access my information. I hate the hundreds of emails I get every few days trying to give me an erection. I hate the fact that when someone posts a picture of their children on face book or what ever social media they use, the GPS coordinates also go with the picture and what ever predator is there can track you. There are many more things to fear than our government having the same information than any idiot with the right equipment can gain.

[randome]

31. We give up rights every hour of every day. The only point of contention is the degree.

I personally don't have a problem with the government analyzing phone record metadata. I understand those who do but I get truly tired of hearing about 'giving up our rights' because that means different things to different people.

I also get tired of hearing references to the Constitution as if it's the freaking Bible! Or references to our 18th century founders who could not have imagined our current society in their wildest dreams.

Everything we have, laws and regulations and safety precautions, can be modified. Does that mean we should willingly give up more and more rights? Well, we do to a certain extent but I don't see that we have to.

That being said, to equate this relatively innocuous collection of metadata (yes, I'm aware it could be misused) with 'giving up our rights' seems to me, in this Internet Age where expectations of privacy are vastly different from those of our 18th century forebears, seems too much like a form of fundamentalism to me.

If I thought giving up more personal data would actually keep us safe, I would not mind giving it up. I don't see that it's necessary and I think the NSA programs should be shut down but I get tired of hearing how we're 'disappointing' our founders with every decision we make.

Their intentions should not even be on the table. We decide what is right for us here and now.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[timdog44]

44. "Everything we have, laws and regulations and safety precautions, can be modified."

And should be modified. We have modified the "freedom of speech". Most of the DU crowd, I think, would modify the owning of guns and the kinds. Unreasonable searches has been modified. Etc. Etc. Etc. My whole point, again, is that there are so many other things for us to be concerned about that this is just another distraction from the real things that are important. And again I say, the health care issue is more important. The jobs issue is more important. The education debacle is way more important. I realize that this could be somewhat important, but way beyond doing anything about it or really worth it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

41. said no one on DU from 2001-2008. nt

[Logical]

55. LOL... "A Safe One"? Define Safe for me? You believe the crap about the Patriot Act and Spying....

protecting you?

[sadbear]

10. In a democracy in which more than half of the citizen are terrified of their own shadow,

this is the kind of government you get.

FDR was absolutely correct about fear.

[timdog44]

20. You may be correct.

I would suggest that the half the citizenry that are terrified vote for Repukes.

Personally I don't fear what is the substance of this thread.

[randome]

34. 'More than half of the citizens are terrified of their own shadow'?

You don't have a very good opinion of your fellow citizens, do you? I give us more credit than that. I think the reality is that most people truly don't care because we have other things to do with our time.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[sadbear]

42. Yes, perhaps that's hyperbole...

But no, I don't have a very good opinion of most of my fellow citizens, at least in the area of whom they choose to lead and represent them.

[WillyT]

21. K & R !!!

[randome]

26. It's not okay but it's also not the end of the world.

Obama is not to blame for using all the tools at his disposal. If we want the more insidious aspects of the Patriot Act to go away, we need to lean on Congress to do that.

As it is, both parties are regularly reviewing and approving this.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[timdog44]

28. I think

you make a reasonable statement. The Patriot Act is not iin and of itself bad, just parts that need to be fine tuned. If I was the commander in chief, I would be doing whatever I could to keep my citizenry safe.

[randome]

32. And if Obama did not use all the tools at his disposal, the next terrorist attack would finish us.

Because then Republicans would have another 30 years of rule by saying Democrats are soft on terror.

If we don't want Obama -or anyone else- to have this power, we need to take it away from them.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[timdog44]

39. Agreed.

One or the other. It would be a real disaster to have some real something happen to us instead of the fake series of republican manufactured maladies. That is the IRS, Benghazi and the AP thing.

[indianjoe3295]

29. What kind of country ?

Well,...first,...it must be safe. Do you shop at Sears, Walmart,...any retailer ? Do you use or have a credit card or debit card ? If so,...the Government and retailers already have more information on you,...linked to your name,...than the so called meta data the NSA is collecting. This is nothing more than an old story rehashed to take advantage of the current "scandal climate". As for the Constitution that is always being brought up like it's a "sacred text",...it's a blueprint,...a plan,...a good start. Those "founding fathers" everyone loves had no freaking idea what was to come. This is not 1776. There is no way it's current enough to cover what we have to deal with. They had no idea of the threats against our country that exist today or the tools we have to use to protect it. You can't determine WHO or WHAT is a threat if you stick your head in the sand. Yes,...it must have over-site to insure it's not misused,...but if you don't use the best tools available to protect this country even if it is inconvenient,...we'll soon not have a country.

[JoeyT]

33. Apathetic?

Hell some people are thrilled about it.

Course if it were a Republican doing it they'd be so pissed they'd short out their keyboard with rage-spittle, but it isn't a Republican, so everyone is just haters and overreacting.

[choie]

43. good point, JoeyT

I was trying to be diplomatic when I said apathetic. Your post is spot on.

[woo me with science]

35. We are relentlessly propagandized

down to discussion boards on the internet.

The loud voices here defending authoritarian surveillance of all americans are the very same familiar, reliable posters who defend every other corporate outrage coming out of this administration....from privatization of schools, to drilling and pipelines, to job and wage killing free trade agreements, to austerity budgets, to indefinite detention and drone murders...

Wall Street owns our government now.

Wall Street has very deep pockets.

Wall Street has a very powerful interest in shaping public opinion so that they can push through their predatory corporate agenda with a minimum of citizen pushback and outrage.

Our televisions broadcast the propaganda relentlessly.

The internet is no different.

Mute the commercials.

[timdog44]

38. A lot of what you say if right.

But to lump all the people who are not real concerned about the mining of information with----
"The loud voices here defending authoritarian surveillance of all americans are the very same familiar, reliable posters who defend every other corporate outrage coming out of this administration....from privatization of schools, to drilling and pipelines, to job and wage killing free trade agreements, to austerity budgets, to indefinite detention and drone murders... "
does a disservice to the thinking of all of us who are not concerned about the mining of information. You have no idea of what I or any of the rest of think about the things you make generalizations about. I hope this is just the fervor of your feelings instead of a real slam.

[xtraxritical]

36. Everyone should thank me for not posting posts like this.

[ErikJ]

37. One word: Facebook

Do you think if billions arent afraid to put their whole life story with their complete personal info and pictures of their social daily life exposed to over a billion people, they are going to be bothered by this? HAHAHA

And I'm so private my Facebook page I use a fake name and fake picture. And put NO personal info on it.

[timdog44]

40. Seems I remember

some idiot national representatives getting into trouble with this.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

48. Has privacy options

that the users demanded.

If folks think that others who they have not authorized, especially the gov, is monitoring their posts, most will have an issue with it.

[treestar]

52. Straw Man

No one is saying that. What kind of people jump to the worst stretched conclusions they can make on the motives of others?

[backscatter712]

53. A-fucking-men. I'm ashamed to see that DU has so many quislings.

On the bright side, it's provided plenty of data that's helping me update my ignore list.

DU gets so much more pleasant after you make a couple dozen assholes go *PLONK*.

[840high]

54. k/r