OK how should Obama and his Executive branch undo the Patriot Act and its various tentacles

[malaise]

and still provide national security whatever that means

[JaneyVee]

3. Good post. I agree, ending war is step #1. And not just the public wars, the secret wars as well.

[malaise]

4. I'm with you - end the fugging wars

but how does he crush that amorphous 'war on terror' meme which means defining terror to suit the next war and the nest and the next ad infinitum.

And what happens when the same RWs attack the country to ensure they keep their meme

[wandy]

14. The war on terror is not war with a State..............

It is a state of mind. That is one of the first things that needs to be fixed. A fix that will require more effort than simply 'swapping out' a president.
Yes their are security concerns and they will need to be well thought out and addressed in a bipartisan fashion. Fat chance of that happening any time soon.
Then their is the matter of lobbyists for the various Hardware, Software and Maintenance suppliers. Suppliers making a profit to an extent that they could provide resource that would make the NRA look trivial.
This did not become a monster just because a conservative news source just happened to have a "breaking leak" at the beginning of the scandal season.
This began as an ill-conceived ugly mess more that ten years ago and has gotten nothing but larger and uglier ever since.
This isn't going to be easy, but I'll accept you're starting point......

Let's start with ending war that has cost this country trillions, wasted lives and done absolutely nothing to make us safer.

[longship]

2. Whoa! That's a good question.

First, he would have to get a majority of both House and Senate behind the idea.

Not bloody likely since vast majorities of both parties authorized this in the first place. Russ Feingold was the sole "Nay" vote on one of the bills. Patriot Act itself, IIRC.

That's a big mountain to climb.

I think that a case can be made to the public against the intrusive spying that includes US residents. But the people involved are already saying that it doesn't include US residents. So what's to do about that?

Tell the public that they were lying? That'll go over really well with the voters who are already so apathetic that a minority party still holds significant power.

I just do not know.

[malaise]

6. I need answers

I love privacy but he did not open this Pandora's box. How does he close it?
The rest of the world is not going to tolerate US 'exceptionalism' but spying on everyone else.

[Cha]

7. I'm going to kick and Rec your thread.. I don't have the

answers as I trust the President is doing all he can to keep a balance. But, I'd like to see if anyone has any viable solutions.

[malaise]

9. Thanks Cha

We need answers

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. A couple starts.

1.- Declare the end of perpetual war. This is a war time measure. Like those of previous wars it simply needs to enter the dustbin and join them.

2.- We need to have an adult conversation...no government can ever guarantee 100% security and safety...if the goal is not a police state...well, some real risks, even of attack from amorphous enemies, are the price of freedom. Regardless all this intrusive crap, and warnings from a foreign agency, plus stove piping, led to the attack in Boston. So either it works, or it really does not.

3.- Legally the president can executive order the end of meta data collection and the prism program, see point number two.

4.- Congress needs to hold Church Committee style hearings...those were the product of the over reach, which was child's play compared to this, of the Nixon Years.

5.- Americans need to grow a pair, get a spine, and stop being scared of the shadows...most bogeymen are not real, and it seems to me, we missed the real ones...tsanaev brothers.

I was troubled by this crap with Bush, just as troubled with Obama. What we are seeing is the formation of a police state, period, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Well, that hell of a total state, most here can't conceive of it...let's keep it this way. If we keep going down this road, all that pretty talk of American Exceptionalism won't stop the dungeons and torture chambers and persecution of political enemies.

This is the kind of shit the Stasi and the KGB could only dream off.

[janlyn]

11. Catch 22

If the President tried to undo it, I don't think I have to spell out the reaction from republicans and tea party members.
Wouldn't go over well.

[woo me with science]

12. I see little evidence that he wants to...

nor do most of the corporate-purchased Congress. And therein lies the problem.

Corporate money and power are at the root of ALL our major problems in Washington. What we are observing is the use of government to build an infrastructure to pre-emptively defend a corporate state increasingly being implemented against the people's wishes.


Verizon revelations, Tim Clemente and the blackmail & intimidation of government critics
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022962685

Gathering AND storing. It is the storing that is most chilling,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022969195#post33

Chilling Legal Memo From Obama DOJ Justifies Assassination of US Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654954

Obama seeks longer PATRIOT Act extension than Republicans (December 2013)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x380450

When it comes to civil liberties, apparently Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022101960

NSA's Massive New Spy Center to Track Your Emails, Internet Activity, and Phone Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101620852

Obama Quietly Signs Abusive Spy Bill He Once Vowed to Eliminate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022104861

Obama repeals Magna Carta, asserting powers our forefathers denied to Kings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101655620

Obama's Memo on Killing Americans Twists 'Imminent Threat' Like Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654919

Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022355307

Obama Admin Seeks Permission TO LIE In Response To FOI Requests - Even To The COURTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2185303

NDAA on trial: Obama Administration fights ban on indefinite detention of Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101748688

Obama administration complicit with private prison industry: President Obama's IncarcerNation
http://www.nationofchange.org/president-obama-s-incarcernation-1335274655

Obama, Democrats Push to Make Bush Spying Laws Permanent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084702

NDAA, signed by Obama, is a direct attack against legitimate protest and dissent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022064803

NSA Whistleblower: All Americans under constant surveillance, all info. stored, no matter the post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002193487; http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021935289

Bipartisan Congress Disgracefully Approves the FISA Warrantless Spying Bill for Five More Years
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022087323

While Public & Media Focused on 2nd Amendment, 5th Amendment Quietly Dismantled
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022390581

How the Obama administration justifies extrajudicial killing of Americans,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022318187

Judge Says Under Law Executive Branch Can Commit Acts That Sure Do Seem Unconstitutional
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022122464

Obama Justice Dept. says wiretap lawsuit should not proceed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014337039

NDAA Lawsuit- Hedges v. Obama, The Last Thin Line of Defense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022357078

Federal authorities step up efforts to license surveillance drones for law enforcement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022383596

Big Banks and FBI worked together vs Occupy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022095056]

FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Domestic Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022061578

FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring (Updated the OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022057064

Public Buses Across Country Quietly Adding Microphones to Record Passenger Conversations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021965291

Street artist behind satirical NYPD 'Drone' posters arrested
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021920967

The Obama DOJ urged the Supreme Court's endorsement of strip searches.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002521527

Obama Administration Fights to Allow Warrantless GPS Tracking
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1074474

Anonymous to FBI: hey, dudes, maybe you could take a break from...investigating activists....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022145621

Half a billion dollars for drones to spy on Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021876414

From Bradley Manning to Aaron Swartz -- The Government's Inhumane Persecution of Brave Truth Tellers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276941

The sight of Army helicopters and the sound of gunfire...on Houston's south side
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276742

Kiriakou and Stuxnet: the danger of the still-escalating Obama whistleblower war
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275570

Can the DEA Hide a Surveillance Camera on Your Property?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022237059

Social Media and the Stasi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021888029

Homeland Security Wants to More Than Double Its Predator Drone Fleet Inside the US, Despite Safety/Privacy Invasions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014312823

CIA Behind Bizarre Censorship Incident At Alleged 9/11 Plotters’ Gitmo Trial
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022280285

“I Am Wearing My Conviction As A Badge Of Honor.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275128

Meet the Contractors Turning America's Police Into a Paramilitary Force
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525281

How Secrecy Corrodes Democracy
http://election.democraticunderground.com/101655009

Obama Quietly Issues Ruling Saying It's Legal For The FBI To Break The Law
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7545687

US Pulls Plug on Iran Cable News (Press TV)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014394770

DHS Watchdog OKs 'Suspicionless' Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022339091

[malaise]

15. Wow - bookmarking your post

Some serious links

[ProSense]

18. Here are two

"I see little evidence that he wants to...nor do most of the corporate-purchased Congress. And therein lies the problem."

...links more current than any on the "propaganda" list.

DOJ Tells Court It's Reconsidering Secrecy Surrounding Patriot Act's Spying Powers

By Alexander Abdo

With a filing due next week in an ACLU Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, the Justice Department today asked a federal judge for time to reconsider its position on whether it will continue seeking to withhold documents related to its secret interpretation of Section 215 of the Patriot Act. That provision, which allows the government to acquire "any tangible thing" relevant to a foreign-intelligence or terrorism investigation, was the basis for the secret FISA Court order revealed this week by The Guardian telling Verizon to turn over troves of phone call data.

Until now, the government has taken the position that what it thinks it's allowed to do under Section 215 should stay hidden from the public. This is unacceptable, because it's impossible to debate the wisdom of a law if the public doesn't know how the government interprets it. But today, following last night's release of classified aspects of the NSA's surveillance practices by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, the government asked the court for 30 days to consider whether to change its position in our FOIA case. Here's an excerpt from the DOJ letter to the court:

In light of the DNI's decision to declassify certain previously classified information, the Government requires time to consider what effect, if any, the DNI's decision has on the classification of information in some of the withheld documents still at issue in this case.

We take this as an encouraging sign that the government is considering handing over at least some of the information it has thus far declined to disclose – most importantly, Justice Department legal opinions and FISA Court rulings about Section 215.

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/doj-tells-court-its-reconsidering-secrecy-surrounding-patriot-acts-spying

That was yesterday. Today the administration released more information.

Obama Administration Declassifies Details On “PRISM,” Blasts “Reckless” Media And Leakers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022972852

[woo me with science]

19. Ooh, another ProSense commercial!

As for your two new shiny offerings:

1. Words. We hear many, many pretty words and promises. As the list devastatingly shows, they rarely pan out. I do suspect we may begin to see some cynical offers of toothless, PR "changes" to attempt to mollify the proles and prevent a more in-depth investigation of these egregious violations of every single American citizen.

2. We've covered this already, as you shamelessly ignore. I encourage everyone to read this subthread to see the brazen attempt to misrepresent what the article actually says, and the giggling swarm to attempt to distract from the actual content of the link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2972951

I'm done with the commercial now. We've all seen them so many times...

[ProSense]

20. Yeah, sponsored by the ACLU.

But evidently, they spread "propaganda," unlike yourself.

[randome]

13. Didn't Obama just say the war on terror is winding down? Or did he say it's over? I forget.

That's at least a start. And he has us out of Iraq and has a schedule to get us out of Afghanistan. To show good will to the world, I would like him to announce the closure and dismantling of the enormous numbers of military bases we have.

We don't need them. If we want to come to someone's aid, we have treaties and fast enough mechanisms to do so.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[malaise]

17. Yes his recent foreign policy speech suggests that he hasn't

bought the neo-con BS re the war on terror.

[mcam88]

21. Education

It is my humble opinion that the only way to counteract the indefensible undermining of the sovereignty of the American people is through the medium of education. The executive branch of the government under the presidency of George H. Bush Jr. utilized the military to carry out his treachery. We must re-enforce our education system through any means necessary so that those individuals who take the new military careers (replacing old angry men) are filled with knowledge, insight, and wisdom. The rhetoric of military praise has been used to perpetuate this terrible nightmare. Let their words fall as flat as the props holding them.

[malaise]

22. Wow - you sure dug this up

Welcome to DU

[gopiscrap]

23. welcome to DU