Glenn Greenwald's passionate defense of whistle-blowers

[Luminous Animal]

http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/07/whistleblowers-and-leak-investigations?CMP=twt_gu

They could easily enrich themselves by selling those documents for huge sums of money to foreign intelligence services. They could seek to harm the US government by acting at the direction of a foreign adversary and covertly pass those secrets to them. They could gratuitously expose the identity of covert agents.

None of the whistleblowers persecuted by the Obama administration as part of its unprecedented attack on whistleblowers has done any of that: not one of them. Nor have those who are responsible for these current disclosures.

They did not act with any self-interest in mind. The opposite is true: they undertook great personal risk and sacrifice for one overarching reason: to make their fellow citizens aware of what their government is doing in the dark. Their objective is to educate, to democratize, to create accountability for those in power.

The people who do this are heroes. They are the embodiment of heroism. They do it knowing exactly what is likely to be done to them by the planet's most powerful government, but they do it regardless. They don't benefit in any way from these acts. I don't want to over-simplify: human beings are complex, and usually act with multiple, mixed motives. But read this outstanding essay on this week's disclosures from The Atlantic's security expert, Bruce Schneier, to understand why these brave acts are so crucial.

Those who step forward to blow these whistles rarely benefit at all. The ones who benefit are you. You discover what you should know but what is hidden from you: namely, the most consequential acts being taken by those with the greatest power, and how those actions are affecting your life, your country and your world.

[villager]

1. As opposed to the passionate denunciation of them by so many here at the "Underground?"

[rhett o rick]

8. You must be a little more understanding. Whistle-blowers rock the comfortable denial bubbles

that conservatives (or the closed minded) carefully craft. Some one here used the word "faith". Faith means believing w/o proof. It's an easy comfortable place where conservatives like to hide.

[villager]

9. Yes. Faith brooks no real questions asked. At least, blind faith doesn't.

Alas.

[timdog44]

17. I have to admit

that in another thread I used the word faith. I don't have blind faith. I don't have faith in god. I have faith in things like the food I eat, all organic and grass fed. I have faith in the supplements I use that keep me healthy. I did not reach this faith blindly. I also did not reach the faith I have in my government blindly either. I understand that you do not know me. But I don't blindly jump in. But I would be lost without faith. Think about all the places where you have faith. Think about it. Faith is a biggy in getting along in this world.

[villager]

21. Good points. Hell, I'm a Sunday school teacher!

(Though off for summer).

However, when I teach the great Western monotheistic myth cycle on Sundays, I make it clear that part of the necessary process is to ask questions, voice doubts, wonder about the truth behind the symbolism, etc.

Faith, yes -- having a fine Sunday morning with my sons right now! -- but it's blind faith, specifically, I was mentioning. (In some degree, specifying precisely because of the points you brought up...)

[Fuddnik]

13. Can't have them whistleblowers embarrassing a right-wing administration.

What would the children think?

[treestar]

28. Well they don't find the person to a "whistleblower"

For me it is not passionate , it is merely a desire to analyze the issue rather than running off with hair on fire.

Some people like "passion" so much that they court it. Exaggerations abound because things in real life are not dramatic enough.

[MotherPetrie]

2. K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Whistle blowers are the "Enemies of the state" who are the heroes of our time.

News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising. Lord Northcliffe

[byeya]

4. + +

Almost totally selfless, led only by their conscience and knowledge of right from wrong and truth from lies.

[truebluegreen]

5. K&R!

[Puzzledtraveller]

6. k&r

[dkf]

7. K&R +1000

[KoKo]

10. Thanks...

you made it an OP and glad you did!

[frazzled]

11. Well, he's passionately defended Nazis, too

So I take it all with a grain of salt.

[Maedhros]

14. Link?

And was he defending Nazis, or free speech?

[Luminous Animal]

15. Free speech. As an attorney. Some people believe the 1st Amendment only

applies to opinions that they like.

[frazzled]

16. Wrong: it was a trademark case

(one of several civil cases in which Greenwald defended the country's most noxious white Supremacist). And then Hale was subsequently sentence to federal prison for soliciting from an undercover FBI agent the death of Judge Joan Lefkow, the presiding judge on that case (in which Greenwald defended him).

From the NY Times, at the time:

CHICAGO, Jan. 8 — A white supremacist was arrested this afternoon on charges that he had solicited someone to kill a federal judge presiding over a copyright case regarding the name of his organization, the World Church of the Creator.

The man, Matthew Hale, 31, who calls himself the church's supreme leader and Pontifex Maximus , was taken into custody at the federal building in downtown Chicago as he headed to a conference on the copyright case in the courtroom of Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow of Federal District Court. The arrest came shortly after Mr. Hale denounced Judge Lefkow in a news conference, saying she was biased against him because she was married to a Jewish man and had grandchildren who were biracial.

Law enforcement officials with Chicago's Joint Terrorism Task Force said Mr. Hale had crossed the line when he asked another person to "forcibly assault and murder" Judge Lefkow.

"Certainly freedom of speech and freedom of religion are important in our society here in America," Thomas J. Kneir of the F.B.I. told reporters in announcing Mr. Hale's indictment. "But the threat of physical violence will not be tolerated."

Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the United States attorney here, added, "Freedom of speech does not include the freedom to solicit murder."

About a dozen World Church of the Creator members stood when Mr. Hale entered a federal courtroom this afternoon for his arraignment, several of them raising their right hands in what they called a Roman salute but is more commonly known as a Nazi salute. Mr. Hale pleaded not guilty to the solicitation and obstruction of justice charges and will remain in custody until a detention hearing on Monday afternoon.

...

The arrest revived memories of the Fourth of July weekend in 1999, when one of Mr. Hale's followers, Benjamin Smith, went on a three-day rampage in Illinois and Indiana, killing two men, one black and one Korean, and injuring nine other Jews, Asians and African-Americans before committing suicide.

Those who monitor white supremacist and other hate groups said Mr. Hale had been brilliant in using the Internet to recruit young members, luring them through a network of 30 Web sites featuring compelling graphics and interactive games. His church, "dedicated to the survival, expansion and advancement of the white race," claims 70,000 members in 49 states and 28 countries, though some experts say the movement has just a few hundred adherents.

...Mr. Hale's path crossed Judge Lefkow's after an Oregon organization known as the TE-TA-MA Truth Foundation filed a lawsuit to block Mr. Hale from using the term "Church of the Creator," which it had registered as a trademark. Judge Lefkow originally ruled in favor of Mr. Hale but was overturned on appeal, and in November she ordered his group to stop using the name on the Internet and to destroy any printed materials including it.

Mr. Hale later sued Judge Lefkow, 59, who was appointed to the district court by President Bill Clinton in 2000, claiming her order violated the Constitution by requiring the destruction of the group's bibles.

"If federal judges are to sit in judgment of the people, the people must be able to sit in judgment of them," he said at the time. On various Web sites, Mr. Hale has urged followers to picket Judge Lefkow's church, and has referred to her as "a white woman married to a Jew with three mixed grandchildren."

Glenn Greenwald, a lawyer for Mr. Hale, said the charges filed today might stem from a misinterpretation of a statement by his client on the Internet that "we are in a state of war with Judge Lefkow."

"They are probably trying to take things he said along the lines of political advocacy and turn it into a crime," Mr. Greenwald said. "The F.B.I. may have interpreted this protected speech as a threat against a federal judge, but it's probably nothing more than some heated rhetoric."


http://blue.utb.edu/labad/white_supremacist_is_held_in_ord.htm

[treestar]

29. As an attorney it is OK

But then you aren't one calling for the prosecution of John Woo then, either?

[premium]

18. He wasn't defending Nazis,

he was defending the free speech rights of Nazis.

[frazzled]

32. No, trademark case, which the White Supremacist/Nazi ultimately lost

It was about his ability to use a name for his hate church that had already been trademarked by another group. If you think that's something this murderous thug was nobly being defended for, you've got things pretty skewed.

[99Forever]

12. K&R

[randome]

19. A good journalist does not promote his sources. He simply lets the facts speak for themselves.

Greenwald has an agenda. Part of that is getting 15 minutes of fame. Probably the same motive that paired him up with Snowden.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[quinnox]

20. Without whistle blowers, we would never know the truth

I'm amazed that some folks are so fascist minded that they don't see that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. Please define the term, "Whistle-Blower" ...

Then distinguish that term from the term concept of "Spy/operative" ... Because from what I'm seeing, the term has been corrupted to include any and all documents/information that had/has been classified as a "secret."

[Octafish]

23. Here's a good place to start...

Ray McGovern

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. I don't ...

understand the reference and am not inclined to search for the meaning of the non-answer answer. Thanks anyway.

[Octafish]

26. Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst, started a program to protect government whistleblowers.

Learn his story and you'll learn more about whistleblowers. Ray McGovern bravely opposed the run-up to the war in Iraq.

[timdog44]

25. Thus the AP debacle.

But a good question. Everyone is so worried about being spied on. Who is going to be the "decider" on who or what gets spied on or whistle blown on. This is such a waste of energy I am almost embarrassed to respond, but I think so many people are on the wrong side of all this. Nobody complained when Larry Flynt said he had the goods on a bunch of politicians. Everybody is complaining that Assange and Bradley Manning are being prosecuted for "spying". You can't have it both ways. The government haas a reason to know certain things and the public has a reason to know certain things. Tell me, who is going to be the making the decisions. And who is going to be paying him or believing him. Again, I say, don't blame the administration for trying to protect us.

[treestar]

30. Plus there are checks and balances on it

Good point about Julian. As I had argued in his case, why should he decide which classified documents should be dumped? Or he and Bradley, that it's OK to indiscriminately dump them. Had they exposed specific things, I'd have a different opinion of them.

[timdog44]

31. Thanks for that.

The other point I have about whistle blowers, and I am not totally averse to what they do, but what is their agenda. I had mentioned faith in an earlier post somewhere. Some of the posters here seem to take it on "faith" that the whistle blower is an angel in man's clothing. They may hate their job. Their assignment. Their boss. Their lot in life. Any whistle blower will have an agenda, whether it is a supposed honorable journalist, or a money grubbing SOB. That is why I keep saying, who is going to be the decider? Surveillance is a good thing in good hands. Who is the good hands man? State Farm? Faith is what you need and you need to stick to you faith.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. To be more specific ...

if he/they were disclosing information regarding a CRIME or corruption ... I'm fine with it (and would consider them whistle-blowers ... maybe, even heroic whistleblowers); but the disclosure of classified information regarding lawful governmental action, regardless of whether you disagree with what Congress and/or the courts have decided ... not so much.

[treestar]

34. Exactly

They seem to accept it as heroic merely because someone releases documents, as if there should be no classified documents ever, and they should all be exposed. That's not very practical.

[1StrongBlackMan]

36. It is ...

when one lives in a world of absolutes ... a world, thank the Universe, this President, and everyone of consequence, recognizes that they/we cannot afford to live in.

[WillyT]

27. K & R !!!

[gulliver]

35. Greenwald is just Fred Phelps without the integrity.

"They could easily enrich themselves..." Yeah, right. This hero narrative is probably what he used to get little Eric Snowden all breathy and red-eared. Greenwald is a con man, a purveyor of dishonest rhetoric, a tribune for fools. One reason we need to make the world a better place is so people like Greenwald won't be able to get a foothold in the minds of the desperate.

[randome]

40. I think you called it right!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[joshcryer]

37. Has Greenwald ever come out against corporate datamining?

Because that's precisely what's enabling shit like PRISM.

[Luminous Animal]

38. I don't know. I can't locate my dossier on Greenwald

[joshcryer]

39. Going by his ideology, I suspect not.

FaceBook, Google, Apple, Amazon, all owning your information? Knowing every intimate detail of your life?

Nothing personal, just business.

Those same businesses handing over data to the government?

OMG.

[Luminous Animal]

41. Your ability to make shit up about people is not as clever as you think.

[joshcryer]

42. A suspicion is not in stone.

I'm fully open to hearing about how Greenwald is against corporate data mining.

I looked to those ends, but found nothing.