Lawmakers Tear Into Obama’s Surveillance Program, Pledge To Challenge It At Supreme Court

[ProSense]

Lawmakers Tear Into Obama’s Surveillance Program, Pledge To Challenge It At Supreme Court

By Adam Peck

Even before the curtain was pulled back on the National Security Agency (NSA) wiretapping scandal last week, Sen. Mark Udall (D-CO) had been fighting in Congress to end the secrecy that defined the federal government’s program to collect the phone and online records of millions of Americans...Udall sought to put an end to the secret program. In 2011 and 2012 he and Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) drafted letters to Attorney General Eric Holder expressing concern that the public was being misled about the government’s authority to eavesdrop on private communications, and in interviews he said that he was doing “everything but leak classified information” to try and end the practice. Udall appeared on multiple Sunday talk shows to explain why he believes the program should receive an open public debate.

“The fact that every call I make to my friends, my family is noted, where I am, the length of it, the date, that concerns me particularly because Americans didn’t know this,” said Udall on Sunday morning. “That’s why I’m calling for a reopening of the PATRIOT Act, I’m calling for a wholesome debate across the country. Maybe Americans think this is okay, but I think the line has been drawn too far towards we’re going to invade your privacy versus we’re going to respect your privacy.”

Udall is certainly not alone in his criticism. Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) told Fox News on Sunday that he intends to pursue a class action lawsuit before the Supreme Court to challenge the legality of the surveillance program.

While Udall reserved the brunt of his criticism for the decision by the intelligence community to keep the surveillance program a secret rather than criticize the program itself — later on Sunday he actually defended the PRISM program that monitors communications overseas, and doesn’t log all metadata — he did question the effectiveness of collecting billions of phone records made by Americans.

- more -

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/06/09/2126131/lawmakers-tear-into-obamas-surveillance-program-pledge-to-challenge-before-supreme-court/

The debate is going to be interesting. The administration's actions are legal, but the secrecy aspect is creating the impression that something nefarious is going on. People, including Senators (no doubt some missed the briefings), are reacting to reports that have proven to be inaccurate. Udall is expressing concerns, but acknowledging support for the program described by the President.

Obama: PRISM Doesn’t Apply To U.S. Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022965452

Even the Think Progress lede is mischaracterizing the nature of the program. Here's a report from yesterday.

Ret. Adm. Dennis Blair, who served as President Obama’s DNI in 2009 and 2010, told NBC News that, in one instance in 2009, analysts entered a phone number into agency computers and “put one digit wrong,” and mined a large volume of information about Americans with no connection to terror. The matter was reported to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, whose judges required that all the data be destroyed, he said.

<...>

The Justice Department publicly confirmed to the New York Times in April 2009 that Holder had taken “comprehensive steps” to correct a problem in NSA collection after it “detected issues that raised concerns.” But department officials declined to discuss details about what was described at the time as the “over-collection” of information.

- more -

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/07/18831985-officials-nsa-mistakenly-intercepted-emails-phone-calls-of-innocent-americans?lite

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022971026


Obama administraton releases details on Senate briefings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022974680

ACLU: DOJ Tells Court It's Reconsidering Secrecy Surrounding Patriot Act's Spying Powers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022973455

[dlwickham]

1. why not just start introducing legislation to overturn the programs

seems pretty simple

[davidn3600]

34. Because they dont want to be viewed as hypocrites and admit they were wrong

[Politicalboi]

2. Lawmakers Tear Into Obama’s Surveillance Program

WTF???? Obama didn't invent this shit, it's been around for a long time. And the thing is, we have been planning this for a long time. People have ALWAYS thought their government has been spying on them for decades.

They steal elections, nobody does shit. They attack us, nobody does shit. They bring us into an illegal war, nobody does shit. They loot the treasury, nobody does shit. They monitor our phone calls, EVERYBODY is having a shit fit. Out of ALL the other crimes, this one is minor, but for some reason gets the most attention, and investigation. We have our priorities backwards.

[ProSense]

4. And, of course, Rand Paul,

the grandstanding idiotic Senator, is going to challenge the legality of a law passed by Congress.

It doesn't get any more moronic than that. Don't like the law, asshole? You're a member of Congress: change it.

[Swede Atlanta]

31. Unfortunately I don't see any likelihood of any changes...

I agree with you that the UnPatriotic Act (I call it the cowardly lion act) was passed by Congress and signed by Cowboy George. There have been several legal challenges to various portions of the cowardly lion act but none have succeeded. Most in fact don't even get the benefit of cert.

I seriously doubt the current Roberts court would ever strike down any provision of the act if they did grant review. While I'm sure the majority hate the fact that a Democrat is getting to reach everyone's e-mail and listen in on everyone's calls, they salivate with the thought that someday, just maybe, another Republic will be in the Oval Office and can wreak terror on liberals.

In Congress, the teabaggers in the House will never vote to dismantle any aspect of the military-industrial-spy complex even if they say they are for limited and smaller government. They too have wet dreams of a Republic in the White House to do dirty work on liberals. In the Senate most of the Democratic members like Feinstein are closet conservatives on these kinds of issues. So there is zero change of ever passing anything out of Congress to place for the president's signature.

And if we think BO or ANY executive would ever sign a law that reduces their power we are crazy. Executives LOVE their power. They, and this includes BO, are drunk on power. it is what they live for every day.

So now that this cowardly lion act is the law of the land I see ZERO chance of any changes in my lifetime.

[OnyxCollie]

8. "Out of ALL the other crimes, this one is minor"

That is some funny shit right there.

[JoeyT]

26. Indeed.

If only there were something like a department that handled things like seeing justice is done. We could call it the Department of Justice, and Obama could use it to investigate and prosecute war crimes and the looting of the treasury...Or we could sick 'em on weed smokers and leakers.

Listing the multitude of crimes we're "looking forward" on really doesn't help.

[woo me with science]

27. [phone]

A "Department of Justice"! Just imagine it. If only there were such a thing. If only....

Wish I could rec. this post.

[ProSense]

28. Well,

"If only there were something like a department that handled things like seeing justice is done. We could call it the Department of Justice, and Obama could use it to investigate and prosecute war crimes and the looting of the treasury...Or we could sick 'em on weed smokers and leakers. "

...since you asked, there just happens to be one.

http://www.stopfraud.gov/news-index.html

That hopey changey thing at the Department of Justice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022933401

[JoeyT]

29. They prosecuted war criminals?

Damn I must have missed that memo. I would've thought DU would've been all over that. I bet Cheney and Bush looked awful in court.

[leftstreet]

33. +1

[RobertEarl]

3. Slavery was once legal

This spying is un-constitutional.

Is the constitution, as gwb claimed, just a piece of paper?

And should Udall stay off small planes?

[ProSense]

5. And then

Slavery was once legal.

This spying is un-constitutional.

Is the constitution, as gwb claimed, just a piece of paper?

And should Udall stay off small planes?

...they changed the law. You can claim the program is "un-constitutional," but that's your opinion based on what you want to believe. The fact is that the program was conducted legally.

The government has been collecting information for decades. The question has always been whether or not those activities violate the Constitution, even when they are in compliance with existing laws.

Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979) - No warrant required for call metadata
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022966764

Meet the Carnivore system
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022972777

This is as good a time as any to have the debate. It's probably one of the best times.

There is a lot of misinformation being pushed. As I stated in the OP, Udall acknowledged support for the program the President described. His concern is about the secrecy and the safeguards to protect Americans.

[OnyxCollie]

9. "Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979) - No warrant required for call metadata "

What were the computers like in 1979, Prosense, and how could call metadata be handled by the computers of today?

[ProSense]

12. LOL! So

"What were the computers like in 1979, Prosense, and how could call metadata be handled by the computers of today?"

...your argument is the decision is outdated?

[OnyxCollie]

13. I think that given today's advances in technology,

a new law restricting the use of phone metadata is appropriate.

Got a problem with that?

[randome]

14. Which goes back to: change the law.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[msongs]

6. it is un-American to use courts to challenge political leaders don't ya know (unless it was bush) nt

[treestar]

7. That is the only way to deal with it

But then there will be standing problems. The plaintiffs in the Jewel Case have this problem, too.

[MoreGOPoop]

10. Right on, Pro!

The facts you provide are like silver spikes to the hearts of
the bloodsuckers.

I recall President Obama talking about the need to examine
each dept. for waste &/or inefficiency. It seems that We
the Peeps are now doing just that.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

11. Obama & Dem Leadership quick to denounce extra scrutiny of Tea Party but not the extra scrutiny of

ALL Americans.

WTF is up wit dat?

[randome]

15. What scrutiny of 'all Americans' would that be?

Do you mean the NSA practice of collecting metadata on non-Americans?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

16. The collecting and analysis of all digital and voice communications

as noted by recent and previous revelations into these various programs by people in the know.

I thought this was old news to you?

[ProSense]

17. What

"The collecting and analysis of all digital and voice communications"

...exactly are you talking about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022965452

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

18. The Whistle Blowers Have Been Pointing out over the years

And just this week a couple more have come out pointing out that all of our communications are being recorded and warehoused.

In case you have missed it, this has been coming out in drips and draps since the bush years... in fact some folks have been trying to dismiss the most recent revelations as 'old news' since this isn't the first we have heard about this kind of unconstitutional spying on ALL Americans.

Why do you think these people are risking everything and speaking out? If these activities were only targeting foreigners, or terrorist, there would be no story here.

[ProSense]

20. Well,

"Why do you think these people are risking everything and speaking out? If these activities were only targeting foreigners, or terrorist, there would be no story here."

...glad you recognize that fact. That is the very reason for all the misinformation.

Obama: PRISM Doesn’t Apply To U.S. Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022965452

ACLU: DOJ Tells Court It's Reconsidering Secrecy Surrounding Patriot Act's Spying Powers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022973455

Obama administraton releases details on Senate briefings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022974680

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

21. That doesn't make sense

As I said, they would not be speaking out IF these programs were not targeting ALL communications.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act has a long history, and is well understood to target foreigners, shoot it is in it's name... so, when TPTB step over the line, and no changes are made, even after there were promises made to do such, whistle blowers are bound to come forward.

It's well past time for this debate, and now we are having it, that is a good thing.

[ProSense]

22. It makes perfect sense, and

"As I said, they would not be speaking out IF these programs were not targeting ALL communications. "

...that's your opinion since the facts do not support your claim. I mean, see the OP.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

23. Sorry, it does not make any sense to blow the whistle on spying on Americans if

If they were only targeting foreigners.

Now the choice is who do we believe?

those in power, with a lot to lose, who have been caught lying multiple times on this issue, and who keep everything secret...

or those with nothing to gain, and everything to lose, who were working in the system and saw what was going on first hand.

Looking on from the outside, and cheap seats, it looks like TPTB have been caught, AGAIN, lying to the American people, and that they will now try to do everything they can to cover their asses.

TPTB have lost most of their credibility at this point, and with their now well documented history of lying (wiki leaks) I think they are gonna lose this fight.

[ProSense]

24. Right,

"Sorry, it does not make any sense to be blow the whistle on spying on Americans if

If they were only targeting foreigners. "

...it doesn't make sense. In fact, I find it strange that someone would leak classified information on a program that's being conducted legally.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2979438

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

25. Yeah, it doesn't make sense, because the spin often doesn't when you pay attention

[MadrasT]

19. K&R

Good

[cheapdate]

30. You can fight as hard for change without tearing into President Obama personally,

as these senators demonstrate (although here on DU I'm afraid some of these senators would be found guilty of not demonstrating sufficient hostility toward the leader of the Democratic Party.)

[blkmusclmachine]

32. We're all Germans now.