***NSA LEAKERS COMPANY, BOOZ ALLEN, OWNED BY CARLYLE GROUP***

[uponit7771]

Yeap, no FUDr going on here...why would anyone think that there would be seeing the WAPO story has some gaping holes and that Obama didn't even NEED a warrant to collect the Meta Data!!


Looked at this crap sideways when it came out but no DOUBT I am going to give WAY LESS deference to the leaker knowing how and where he got his info from...I think these guys can spread some light on the issue


http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lesersense/2013/06/09/making-sense-with-steve-leser--nsa-spying-war-on-women


nah, no need to question motives of Carlye Group affliates....

none at all

[neverforget]

1. You're right. It's all a conspiracy.

[uponit7771]

2. Yeah, you're right...lets trust the Carlyle Group...those guys have TONS of credibility

[neverforget]

8. So, the Carlyle Group, through Booz Allen employee, Snowden, had him leak information

about spying after an election to embarrass the President for a program that the President is defending? Wouldn't the Carlyle Group want a Republican in charge of the Executive Branch to get all those lucrative intelligence contracts?

[leveymg]

25. Are we supposed to assume that every employee of BA is a Rovian operative? Think about that one.

Shheeet, even I applied for a job there a while back.

Come back and tell us about it when you have more than THAT.

[uponit7771]

29. Nope, again...just give their accounts the deference they deserve=NONE

[leveymg]

41. So, you think all the docs are fakes because BA is a defense contractor owned by a bigger one?

How else could a private sector whistleblower obtain such documents unless he worked for a defense contractor?

The line of argument you're spinning is totally illogical.

If the docs were fake, don't you think BA, the NSA, the White House, and everyone else with an interest in this would be pointing that out? Or is Obama part of the conspiracy as well?

Cheez-itz, man. Think before you make such claims.

[treestar]

86. They could be

I knew people were jumping on hero status too quickly.

[graham4anything]

3. the Bush's thrive on dirty tricks. This is exactly like the fake MiamiDade country recount riot

and the other smears like the way they took down Dan Rather who had true info

with Jeb/Rand wanting to be the next ticket, I'm shocked, shocked that the Bush's friends would resort to dirty tricks now

[RobertEarl]

10. Bushies shock you? Just now?

They are nothing but dirty tricks.

Good to see you leaned something, finally.

[LondonReign2]

38. How is it a dirty trick when Obama is *proud* of the program

and goes about defending it?

[phleshdef]

57. Its a dirty trick because the original story flat out fucking LIED about how the program works.

[uponit7771]

74. +1

[treestar]

85. People shouldn't pass judgment so quick

They never know where the conspiracy is coming from

[BeyondGeography]

4. It has been a scandal a week for a month now

So I'm waving the red flag, too.

[timdog44]

96. Scandal after scandal.

When do we sit up and take note that all these are the product of an orchestrated repuke operation. I know that sounds like a conspiracy, but the facts are beginning to speak for them selves. Keep things like this in the news and nothing will ever get done. It is absolutely manufactured. The administration needs to be more forceful. And then needs to be believed, especially by the likes of us on Democratic Underground. We have to keep the, and here I go again, faith.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

5. Feeling a little stressy this afternoon?

Is Rand Paul running this whole operation from low earth orbit? Oh and, kindly direct me to the link showing that the President has stopped spying on hundreds of millions of Americans.

[uponit7771]

7. ...nah, no need to question the motives of a Bushie Group,...none at all why don't we just

...beleive their motives they've been so pure in the past no?

tia

[DisgustipatedinCA]

9. So the spy program has been stopped? Great news.

[uponit7771]

11. After this I hope not, I'll wait for me info now....wasn't supportin it befoee

[DisgustipatedinCA]

14. That's not true. You said exactly the opposite. Need the link again?

[uponit7771]

35. Yes, so everyone can see how you're note accurate about what I said...sure, people can read and dont

...leave out jot or tittle

regards

[Cha]

13. Right. We're suppose to just shut up about the Carlyle group..

that's just a pesky detail.

[LondonReign2]

48. Shoot the messenger all you want

Obama is proud of the program and has defended it. He took an awful Bush program and made it worse, and he's defending it.

[uponit7771]

54. ...and if the messenger is a winger affliate we're supposed to take what they say at face value?!

REALLY!?

[Cha]

55. No, PBO didn't make it worse.

And, just because FACTS are brought to light that doesn't mean anyone is "shooting" the guy who ran off to China.

[uponit7771]

65. WOW!! He ran off to China?! WTF?! You can't right his shit in a book

[Cha]

77. No shit!

Michael Hargrove @MichaelHargrov1

Smells strange, worked for BAH less that 3 months, gathers classified info, passes to Guardian and Greenwald, flee to HK, living it up.

Bob Cesca @bobcesca_go

A Ron Paul supporter and privacy supporter working for the NSA is like a vegan PETA supporter working for McDonald's. I don't get this guy.

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/09/after-newtown-shooting-mourning-parents-enter-into-the-lonely-quiet/#comments

[uponit7771]

80. Good info here...this should be it's own TP

[Blue State Bandit]

107. Proud of Ted Kennedy's program.

Let's be clear here. FISA was written by Ted Kennedy, and signed by Jimmy Carter.

[Maven]

39. Kindly prove that Mr. Snowden's betrayal of his employer

(a corporation hired by the government to run this shameful invasion of its citizens' privacy) with the actual approval of said employer, in a secret plot to discredit Obama using Snowden as their "operative".

Otherwise your deliberate and desperate attempt to misdirect has been duly noted.

Thanks

[uponit7771]

42. You're right...no need to question agenda of winger group like Carlyles...nah...no need at all

[Maven]

47. Yes I am right. Until you can prove that his employer is secretly behind this breach

of their own policy, then you're just talking out of your ass.

[uponit7771]

50. I don't give people who work for those with winger agendas the benefit of the doubt and never have..

...I could care less if the winger organization was DIRECTLY involved or not.

Work for GOP, get no trust from me!!!

[Maven]

53. So you can't prove it then

Therefore the implausible scenario you're trying to sell as fact is completely based on a fabrication by you.

[uponit7771]

59. ...and for me it doesn't have to be, don't know how clear I can make it. They have a winger...

...agenda and that rules IN their bias IMHO

...why shouldn't it?

regards

[zeemike]

97. That is very revealing.

McCarthyism is based on that exact same thinking.

If you went to a meeting of a group that McCarthy said had a communist agenda then you were one....and McCarthy knew a communist agenda when he saw one.

And I should not have to tell you why it shouldn't

[uponit7771]

98. Carlyle Groups = Left Wing organization?! REALLY?! People are defending the Carlyle GROUP!!??!?!?!?

[zeemike]

103. No, Carlyle group=left wing = false dichotomy.

I no longer accept false dichotomy as a valid argument.

[Dragonfli]

108. Correction, in this case, they were working for Obama's NSA, are Obama and the NSA a GOP front?

[Cali_Democrat]

6. ...

[RainDog]

12. since you posted this after I noted this fact

allow me to share, here, what I shared with you on the other thread related to the idea that this instantly proves anything...

we don't know enough about what's going on to know what's happened.

that's how I see it, anyway.

But, yes, this group does defense contracting.

That would include NSA sorts of work, I would imagine, since it's a company that specializes in computer applications.

I think it's probably one of the intel agency's fronts.

I don't know what that has to say about Snowden and I think you're making a mistake to act like this is the money shot in a political porn vid.. tho, who knows, maybe that will turn out to be the case.

or maybe Snowden is Deep Throat.

[uponit7771]

16. It DOES instantly prove something...DON'T TRUST THE FUDr!! I also posted supportin FACTS on why I

...now recende my dislike of the program for now.

Screw that, I don't trust ANY..>ANY winger group....they're stupid and vapid

[RainDog]

22. A Democrat also accepted bribes from a subsidary of the Carlyle Group

so, you know, this goes both ways in the parties, regarding contractors and bribes and dirty dealings.

Check out Kwame Kilpatrick. Maybe that was all a giant conspiracy theory and someone coerced Kilpatrick to spend over three-fourths of a million dollars over his mayoral salary...

[uponit7771]

24. True, that doesn't negate the fact that they nor their minions should be given the benefit of the

...doubt.

They shouldn't and ESPECIALLY them

[DisgustipatedinCA]

34. You rescinded your dislike again?

2 days ago, you were in favor of spying.
Yesterday, you weren't.
Today, you've changed again.

Bear in mind, I have the links if ou really want to see 'em again. But you might want to spend the time retooling instead.

[YoungDemCA]

15. President Obama nominated a Carlyle Group partner to the Federal Reserve Board

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_H._Powell

[uponit7771]

17. ...yeap, and if he started leaking classified "non stories" then I wouldn't trust the stories then..

...either

[deurbano]

106. You wouldn't trust leaks of classified info from Pres. Obama (because he nominated Jerome Powell)?

Or you wouldn't trust leaks of classified info from Powell?

[AnalystInParadise]

18. NO FREAKING WAY

Defense company owned by another Defense Company had a Defense Contract with the government? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME....THAT"S FUCKING UNPOSSIBLE....SOMEONE CALL THE NEW YORK TIMES, WE MIGHT HAVE A FUCKING STORY HERE.

WOW the stupid burns on this........

[uponit7771]

27. The Carlyle Groups just a "defense contractor" REALLY?! SERIOUSLY Postin this crap?!

...noted

[AnalystInParadise]

30. Yeah they are.

Of course they have an agenda, but who on this planet does not have an agenda that is involved with Big Business.

They are in defense, do you deny that is one of their investments?

And thank you for noting......I noted your notation.

[uponit7771]

36. We disagree, I don't think they're "JUST" another contractor group they have a winger agenda & that

...is enough for me to scream loud and wide about this guy

[AnalystInParadise]

45. Got it

you believe this is some massive conspiracy to taint President Obama and his administration even though it could cost Carlyle billions of dollars in revenue.....Or more likely nothing at all like that is happening and your are more paranoid than our government right now.

[uponit7771]

64. No I don't think this is a "massive conspiracy" and it doesn't have to NOT take what this guy says..

...at face value

[Cooley Hurd]

19. I just wiped my butt with tp owned by the Koch Brothers...

...therefore my bum is a 501c.

[uponit7771]

28. ...and if it leaked non story classified info the we'll act accordingly seeing what wipes it...

...I think that's fair no?

tia

[Cooley Hurd]

33. The jury's still out about this being a "non-story"

Yes, Truth IS All.

[uponit7771]

58. ...not according to 1979 ussc, Obama didn't even NEED warrant for meta data

[ProSense]

20. It has gone from

the leak of classified information related to a program, legally conduct and that everyone has known about, to cheering the leaker.

All the facts are still unknown, and those that are coming out are being dismissed.

Fact: The program was legally conducted.

It's a little strange that someone leaks information on something that was done according to law.

[uponit7771]

23. +1, ...the "strange" thing might be to smoke out a leaker...seems like they set him up no doubt

[Vinnie From Indy]

21. What is truly frightening is that BushCo. may have never

given up the ability to use these awesome powers when they left office. For all we know, the reason Diane Feinstein and Saxby Chambliss are such ardent defenders of the spying is because they have been compromised using these tools and now do BushCo.'s bidding or face personal destruction. Far out, but certainly possible.

[ananda]

26. I know.

This reeks of cronyism and a huge payoff to Snowden.

[uponit7771]

31. +1, what is reeking more is the acceptance of this companies leeker as non partial

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. Now that people are waflling and equivocating over privacy losses in a Dem admin

I don't think anyone has a right to howl over who owns what corporation.

When your own government captures more information than the corporations you fear, maybe you need to re prioritize your fears.


"The government is watching me? Meh. Monsanto has a way to grow soy in an armpit? ZOMG!!!!!!!! THE HUMANITYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!"

[uponit7771]

40. I don't think so, CGroups has a winger agenda so any story from them is fruit of poisnous tree

...and not to be trusted.

I'll wait for more info now

[UTUSN]

37. & when "Carlyle Group" is mentioned, I remind a co-founder (RUBENSTEIN) = Jimmy CARTER's staffer

Yaas, CARTER had a nest of vipers at his breast: Tweety and Pat CADDELL. However, RUBENSTEIN is a great philanthropist, bought/donated a copy of the Magna Carta, and fired Shrub when Shrub got a trophy job with Carlyle, when Shrub contributed nothing to the board meetings beyond hangovers and dirty jokes.

[uponit7771]

43. ...and that makes their agenda LESS of note? GOP was found by Lincoln, they'd hate the guy now

[UTUSN]

51. I have no truck with Carlyle, just shy from buzzwords. & to be clear, here's what I think ofSNOWDEN

(from another thread: )

*************QUOTE*************

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022979420
[font size=5]PRISM was an effective program and a good balance with civil liberties. Snowden should go to jail.[/font]

*************UNQUOTE*************

[uponit7771]

72. I do, I don't trust them...they're Bushies and that's enough for me

[UTUSN]

75. The way to be EFFECTIVE against our wingnut enemies is to be SMART and not like johnwaynes. n/t

[uponit7771]

81. Unnn, I don't think one has to be "smart" about not trusting Bushies

[UTUSN]

89. My last try: It's about being EFFECTIVE in fighting (the Shrubs, or whoever), not buzzwords or

conspiracy theorizing.

I was going to check out here, but on second thought, am I understanding that your position is: 1) SNOWDEN worked for a CG entity; 2) SNOWDEN disrupted CG; therefore, 3) SNOWDEN is on the side of the angels?

I thought we were on the same page, but to repeat, the other DUer said it for me:

(from another thread: )

*************QUOTE*************

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022979420
[font size=5]PRISM was an effective program and a good balance with civil liberties. Snowden should go to jail.[/font]

*************UNQUOTE*************

[elleng]

44. IF people with no such scruples wanted to understand, they'd read that Snowden,

'a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of the defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. Snowden has been working at the National Security Agency for the last four years as an employee of various outside contractors, including Booz Allen and Dell. . .

In a note accompanying the first set of documents he provided, he wrote: "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

Despite his determination to be publicly unveiled, he repeatedly insisted that he wants to avoid the media spotlight. "I don't want public attention because I don't want the story to be about me. I want it to be about what the US government is doing."'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

[uponit7771]

46. Carlyle Group = winger agenda...screw that, I don't trust them no more than I can throw them with

... a broke arm.

[elleng]

56. Snowden is not a corporation,

he, like others we may have heard from, and like many of us in fact, is one small worker-bee, 'lucky' enough to have seen information which, when made public, might help Americans understand how decisions are/were made in the government. We might want to change the way decisions were made, as a consequence of learning these things.

It is ABSURD to attribute 'Carlyle' motives to such a person as Snowden.

I worked for the Federal Government during reagan's tenure, as well as Jimmy Carter's and Bush1 and 2, and Bill Clinton. Wanna pick and choose whose agenda I 'chose' to exercise?

[uponit7771]

68. ...of course not, he works for a winger organization and COULD ... COULD be influenced by them seein

...they're extremist wingers.

The "could" is good enough for me to take what he says with a block of salt

[Maven]

49. IS THAT SO???! Then I applaud him even more

He gets to fuck over the Carlyle Group (just what is the administration doing paying them $$$ anyway?) AND expose the abuses of privacy by this administration in one shot!

[uponit7771]

52. Please outline the "abuses" of this admin on these subjects or do just take what a CG minion says...

...at face value?

tia

[AnalystInParadise]

61. In this case

I take the words of a 29 year old Defense Contractor over the spin issuing from Washington right now. He hasn't lied to me yet, my government has lied to me several times this week.

[uponit7771]

67. I don't hate America's government nor do I have a deep intrenched hateful mistrust of them

...either.

I think Americas govern, though not anywhere near perfect, is pretty dog on good for the most part

[uponit7771]

63. That's not ALL their agenda, they're wingers...staunch wingers too. They want to make money and put

...wingers into office = not taking what their minions says about a dem at face value.

They say the sky is blue I go outside and check

[uponit7771]

70. ...that's not my understanding of them....their ties to the Bushies is notable

[AnalystInParadise]

73. Your understanding is incorrect

They will work with any President to continue making money. That is how defense contractors work.....CG would work with Roseanne Barr if she was President to keep their contracts going. It is literally that simple.

[uponit7771]

78. I googled carlyle group and Bush, too many ties for me

[AnalystInParadise]

87. Personal Ties and big business

neither shall the two meet..carlyle would sell the Bush family down the river if it meant huge profits....the fact that you are not even acknowledging this is stupefying.......

[uponit7771]

82. ...again it wasn't just "connections", it was their winger agenda ALONG with those connections to...

...wingers ...

That's the reason not to trust them, they DO have a winger agenda

[AnalystInParadise]

88. Good god

money trumps personal ties.....do you not see that everyday of your life?

[uponit7771]

90. not to some

[AnalystInParadise]

92. To Defense contractors it does

Did you know that in each year of President Obama's Presidency that Booz Allen Hamilton's revenue has gone up, and next year is set to be their biggest ever....and yet CG is going to sacrifice over 6 billion a year to get in a dig at this President.....Again are you for freaking real?

[AnalystInParadise]

69. They want to make money

and will work with a Republican, a Democrat or a Martian to make more money. You know very little about Defense companies. They want to make money, not bring anyone down, it is very bad for business when one of their top intelligence companies is going to be punished for this. CG could lose billions.....and yet you think they would do that to get at President Obama.....pass that shit you are smoking over here I need a hit of that stuff.....

[uponit7771]

71. ..so will I but I'm partisan to the nth degree, I wont start a lie about a kkkon but damn well I'll

...start the truth and I don't see that's what Greenwald et al did in this case

[siligut]

62. Yes, the timing of the "leak" and the initial hyperbolic "error" are suspect

Just a little disconcerting that some people cannot connect the dots and see the big picture.

[jakeXT]

76. Executive Order 12333 by Reagan made privatization of intelligence possible. /nt

[treestar]

83. Now that's interesting

A corporate BFEE entity that would normally be condemned on DU. And anyone for working for it.

[Dragonfli]

110. That works for Obama's NSA, Why is this Administration so happy to hire them?

Is this admin a secret BFEE front group? I think you may be onto something!!

[AnalystInParadise]

84. This is as stupid as

the thread about Snowden giving money to Ron Paul. The Caryle Group sold weapons and defense services when President Clinton was in office, they did so when Bush was in office and they are doing so while President Obama is in office. They will continue to do so as long as they are given contracts because that is what they do, make billions of dollars in defense sales. They have no agenda beyond making money. I won't deny they have right wing leadership, because it is true, but they will not sacrifice such a large cash cow like Booz allen to go after a sitting President. That's fucking stupid, they want to make money no matter who is in office and will work to keep their contracts with anyone who is elected as President and any Congress no matter which party controls it.

Booz allen made almost 6 billion dollars in 2012.......yeah they (CG)are going to endanger that cash cow to take a swipe at President Obama...... Are you for real?

[uponit7771]

91. So you're bottom line is they do NOT have a winger agenda?!? REALLY?! tia

[AnalystInParadise]

93. No my agenda

is that we have proof that CG worked with Clinton, Bush and now President Obama and have increased their sales in the last four years of defense related items and services. And since we have proof of that, it stands as wildly paranoid to suggest that CG would cut their own throats for no gain. Further my agenda is you have offered nothing beyond "they haz a wingerz agendaz"* even though their sales figures show they don't care who is in charge.

*Z's added to demonstrate the monotonous nature of your repetitive yet unfounded opinion

[uponit7771]

95. Good, ...I have a left wing agenda and will work with wingers at any time so that doesn't move my

...opinion at all.

I just some winger groups have a REALLY hard agenda and Carlyle Group fits in that category regardless of who they work for.

I don't put it past wingers to be this grimy

[sigmasix]

111. cause the right wing would never

The extreme right wing would never spend billions(small pocket change) to attack this president and be assured of future trillions after the extreme right wing has finished destroying our country from the inside.
The right has already shown it's hatred for America and the liberties we enjoy- why would anyone need to be reminded of this fact?

[uponit7771]

112. +1, cause the GOP has helped OBama at every step...there's no way I would take anything at face valu

...come from anyone affliated with the GOP

[steve2470]

94. My guess:

Note I said guess , because it's too early to know all the facts.

The guy supposedly doesn't even have a high school degree. He's great with computers. He was patriotic and maybe still is.

He eventually got up to (supposedly) $200,000 a year doing something "for his country". Remember this guy doesn't even have a HS degree. Key fact.

He got sicker and sicker of what he saw, despite the money and the patriotic appeal.

He eventually cracked and maybe deep down inside he wants to be a hero/famous/infamous.

Time will tell. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to say so.

[KrazyinKS]

99. So he moved to Hong Kong?

The whistleblower guy, they said on the news tonight he had to move to Hong Kong permanently. That he can't come back. So...isn't that like... expensive? Where did that money come from? I personally think that is a good question. Makes me wonder, hmmmm.

[uponit7771]

100. GREAT POINT! "moving" to Hong Kong aint cheep and he'd have to have some long enough money to

...live for a sec without a job..

Good point

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

101. EEK!

[Berlum]

102. This thang got Stank-O-Rama (R) all over it

[uponit7771]

113. Some believe the Carlyle Groups is a bunch of non partisan good fellas

[Enrique]

104. BOMBSHELL: BRADLEY MANNING WORKED FOR THE ARMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE ARMY THAT INVADED IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!

[damnedifIknow]

105. I don't know

" Snowden voted for a third party in 2008, he told the Guardian, but believed in Obama to put an end to some of the surveillance practices. Instead, after a review, Obama continued the program according to administration officials, adding in additional layers of review to prevent abuse. He told the Guardian he “got hardened” after he “watched as Obama advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in.”

http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/09/four-things-to-know-about-surveillance-leaker-edward-snowden/

[uponit7771]

109. Paul supporter in 2012, another reason I don't take the guy at face value...this whole thing stanks

[JoeyT]

114. So why is this supposed to reflect poorly on the leaker?

If anything it should reflect poorly on the dumbasses that contracted the Carlyle Group.

The conspiracy theories have actually passed 9/11 CT level and are rapidly approaching Moon Landing Denial level of nutty.

[markpkessinger]

115. And Ellsberg worked for the Rand Corporation when he leaked the Pentagon Papers to the NY Times . .

. . . So what? The nature of whistleblowing is such that whistleblowers typically are folks who have worked in the "inside."

[avaistheone1]

116. k&r