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scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:04 PM Jun 2013

I don't care whether you approve or disapprove of Edward Snowden's leaks. What REALLY outrages me

is that fucking PRIVATE CONTRACTORS are carrying out this surveillance. PRIVATE CONTRACTORS who are beholden to no-one, who work for PROFIT, whose owners amass huge fortunes doing the bidding of the MIC/National Security State - THESE are the people who are being given access to all this data collection!

THESE are the people who can spend whatever they like IN SECRET to influence our elections and our entire political process. THESE are the people who can spend endless money on lobbyists to make sure that THEY get Defense Department contracts, who can spend endless money on lobbyists to make sure that secret surveillance continues to be approved by Congress.

Do you really think this just fine, just peachy? Do you really think that THIS is how a true democracy should work? Do you really think that giving private, for profit companies access to the apparatus of State Security is okay? Do you really think we should just trust THEM?

I mean - SHIT!

144 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I don't care whether you approve or disapprove of Edward Snowden's leaks. What REALLY outrages me (Original Post) scarletwoman Jun 2013 OP
Agreed! Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #1
No more fine with it than turning over much of our military to private mercenaries... hlthe2b Jun 2013 #2
Or turning over the manufacturing of defense weapons to our potential enemies. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #61
..or turning over the prisons and schools. Moostache Jun 2013 #68
In a Corporatist Republic, who else would corporations trust to spy on everyone? kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #3
+1, the Democracy you learned about in school is a myth harun Jun 2013 #93
It create plausible deniability for the government. boston bean Jun 2013 #4
No, it created adaptability jeff47 Jun 2013 #29
It's not just the government. Banks, for example, LOVE the idea of disposable workers arcane1 Jun 2013 #52
Throw-away technology requires throw-away people? JDPriestly Jun 2013 #60
No, more like technology moves faster than the employment regulations. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #74
Employment, employees. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #75
some seem to have no problem with it G_j Jun 2013 #5
And then when it's determined it's not legal, here comes the immunity. boston bean Jun 2013 #8
Racket Texasgal Jun 2013 #22
"Some" have no problem with it because Obama told them what to think about it. morningfog Jun 2013 #21
It's all private. Security, Intel, War, hell, even the people who feed NightWatcher Jun 2013 #6
Nail on the head. timdog44 Jun 2013 #19
That is another excellent point. These massively wasteful, ineffective, unconstitutional policies usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #7
Remember, Obama is the president burnodo Jun 2013 #9
Everything it does is not solely attributable to him. treestar Jun 2013 #12
except for the good things burnodo Jun 2013 #33
You understand that part of the logic here is that privatization removes oversight: struggle4progress Jun 2013 #56
Did you just now find this out? How can that possibly be? George H. W. Bush DevonRex Jun 2013 #10
I actually do know all that history, I'm 63 years old, I lived through it. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #14
Ok. DevonRex Jun 2013 #51
I really appreciate hearing of your personal experience of this. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #53
Then there is also the situation that regardless of whether this PRISM is truedelphi Jun 2013 #137
The Constitution is only going to work if we INSIST on it. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #138
Yep...they just hired an actor to play the roll. zeemike Jun 2013 #20
^Post of the Day^ Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #36
Actually, every president since... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #100
Can you imagine; greiner3 Jun 2013 #81
The Bush administration contracted all sorts of things out treestar Jun 2013 #11
You remember Christopher Boyce? roamer65 Jun 2013 #13
Yes, and McDonnell Douglas has done very well all these years. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #27
McDonnell Douglas? SCVDem Jun 2013 #35
Sorry, you're correct. However, they didn't exactly die, they merged with Boeing. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #42
Thx. I'll give it a read. roamer65 Jun 2013 #50
Considering that I "wronged" some RWers years ago and they decided to ruin my life . . . siligut Jun 2013 #15
What did you do? 7962 Jun 2013 #41
I worked for an HMO and to save money they were misdiagnosing heart attacks siligut Jun 2013 #44
Lets not forget the rastaone Jun 2013 #16
Perhaps without the private contractors SCVDem Jun 2013 #17
We might not even have this overbearing intrusion into our privacy. Kablooie Jun 2013 #28
Bingo! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #31
I approve of his leaks, as I approve of casting light onto wrongs anywhere. mbperrin Jun 2013 #18
Amen nradisic Jun 2013 #23
A subsidary of the Carlyle Group RainDog Jun 2013 #24
Good point Kablooie Jun 2013 #25
Constitutional Rights...For Sale! Discounts given for campaign contributions! Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #26
Monsanto Turns To Blackwater For Increased Security, Intelligence And ‘Infiltrate Activist Groups’ G_j Jun 2013 #30
Totally agree WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #32
+1,000 malaise Jun 2013 #34
Republicans like it that way. gulliver Jun 2013 #37
It is spelled nineteen50 Jun 2013 #38
And it's totally controlled by The Carlyle Group! Kablooie Jun 2013 #39
OMFG grasswire Jun 2013 #65
Poppy still gets intelligence briefings tblue Jun 2013 #91
Profits first! moondust Jun 2013 #40
Private eyes, they're watching you... Blue Owl Jun 2013 #43
Indefensible BrotherIvan Jun 2013 #45
Halliburton will be in there somewhere. Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #46
Everything is for sale when Capitalism is the real God SHRED Jun 2013 #47
We are paying a corporation to spy on us SHRED Jun 2013 #48
Well said! Ain't capitalism great? scarletwoman Jun 2013 #55
And they no doubt sell our info for more profit marshall Jun 2013 #49
K&R suffragette Jun 2013 #54
K&R... midnight Jun 2013 #57
I suspected when this first broke that the "Private Contractors" were involved. KoKo Jun 2013 #58
Exactly! Well said! (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2013 #59
Maybe we should just outsource our government to Halliburton. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #62
Exactly, civilians not even sworn government employees... Historic NY Jun 2013 #63
Loyalty to the Bottom Line, not to democracy. (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2013 #64
It just keeps getting uglier Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #66
That bothers me as well davidpdx Jun 2013 #67
Seriously!!!@!!@!! ReRe Jun 2013 #69
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #70
Thanks! (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2013 #71
Mining this data gives total control over heading off any problems glinda Jun 2013 #72
Keeping the War on Terror going most certainly serves their interests! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #73
It is even more than that. It is where you shop, what you buy, what you see.... glinda Jun 2013 #118
But then our govt is pretty much a private contractor at this point. cui bono Jun 2013 #76
I share your rage and I am furious that nit-pickers are still moaning about whether Swagman Jun 2013 #77
Classic misdirection - "Look over there!" scarletwoman Jun 2013 #109
In the end we are going to find out that is not and never was about terror, it is all about money. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #78
It's not for OUR security, it's for control by the Overclass. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #110
Excellent point. Thanks. Zorra Jun 2013 #79
Thank you, back! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #111
K & R AzDar Jun 2013 #80
I see; greiner3 Jun 2013 #82
I would hazard a guess that I and those other OPs are on "ignore". scarletwoman Jun 2013 #83
K&R. myrna minx Jun 2013 #84
Thanks! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #85
It's good to see you, friend. myrna minx Jun 2013 #102
It always gladdens my heart to see you! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #107
It gladdens my heart to see you too! myrna minx Jun 2013 #143
"meeeeehhhh, you're PARANOID...." sibelian Jun 2013 #86
"Grotesque" is an excellent word for it! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #112
Most of those contractors... atreides1 Jun 2013 #87
Sure, nothing but a big fat contract. And a vested interested to continue to profit from scarletwoman Jun 2013 #113
Thanks for bringing this up DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #88
There's a great explanation of how this works, here: scarletwoman Jun 2013 #114
Excellent point! kentuck Jun 2013 #89
It's set up to fail US. It's set up to kill our democracy. (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2013 #115
K&R Hell no I don't think its fine. Feel like all I ever talk about is how we are being sold out raouldukelives Jun 2013 #90
We HAVE to talk about how we're being sold out. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #116
Do you remember the devil Gun Lobby we have talked about so much of late........... wandy Jun 2013 #92
Well, since the people our elected officials actually represent are the Oligarchs, scarletwoman Jun 2013 #119
The problem identified. Here, and in many other places. wandy Jun 2013 #121
Thank you for putting the situation into words, scarletwoman. Octafish Jun 2013 #94
If there's any hope of saving democracy in this country, it will only happen when enough scarletwoman Jun 2013 #120
K & R SunSeeker Jun 2013 #95
And we are ctsnowman Jun 2013 #96
Wow! Great point! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #122
Now THIS is a good point N/T War Horse Jun 2013 #97
Thanks! (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2013 #124
absolutely-- plus they are undoubtedly overcharging the govt and ripping us off NoMoreWarNow Jun 2013 #98
Oh, not to worry. The government has PLENTY of money to spend on the National Security State. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #125
sadly, that is so true NoMoreWarNow Jun 2013 #144
Hear Hear. That point is being lost. Back in the 70s my Dad was outraged how the snagglepuss Jun 2013 #99
"These private spying companies have a vested interest in manipulating perceptions so best serve scarletwoman Jun 2013 #126
NOW WE'RE TALKING! hedgehog Jun 2013 #101
Thank you! (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2013 #127
You got a helluva a point scarletwoman. avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #103
Thanks for the feedback! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #129
Agree 100 percent on Private Contractors emulatorloo Jun 2013 #104
It's intolerable, imho. (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2013 #130
well said questionseverything Jun 2013 #105
Thank you so much for the links! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #131
Hey SW !!! - Did You Catch THIS: WillyT Jun 2013 #106
Wow! Thanks! Great piece! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #132
Very true Marrah_G Jun 2013 #108
WAY fucked up! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #133
This I agree is a problem. DCBob Jun 2013 #117
Are you so sure that contractors are "less expensive"? scarletwoman Jun 2013 #123
Generally speaking, they are... DCBob Jun 2013 #128
Sure, because a contractor making $1.3 billion in profits will just go quietly, scarletwoman Jun 2013 #136
some have a "stranglehold".. the vast majority do not. DCBob Jun 2013 #139
We're all Germans now. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #134
K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #135
In a word or perhaps two. timdog44 Jun 2013 #140
Equally troubling is the growing list of congress people who voted for it but claim to not know ecstatic Jun 2013 #141
Thank you, you speak for me. -nt- b.durruti Jun 2013 #142

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
2. No more fine with it than turning over much of our military to private mercenaries...
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:06 PM
Jun 2013

who are likewise beholding to no one, no matter what horrific acts they commit in our name.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
68. ..or turning over the prisons and schools.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:02 PM
Jun 2013

The whole thing stinks to high hell and its going to end very, very badly.

kenny blankenship

(15,689 posts)
3. In a Corporatist Republic, who else would corporations trust to spy on everyone?
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:08 PM
Jun 2013

Also, any growth industry is where the bucks are. So naturally they would wish to push out the public sector competition as much as possible.

Something this episode, like the Iraq War and the Obamacare Debacle and the Wall St. (non-)scandal before it, should really bring home for people -although there still seems to be a terribly high barrier to acceptance - is how fully integrated corporations and the state they use to 'administer' us have become.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
4. It create plausible deniability for the government.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:09 PM
Jun 2013

They can always point to a company and throw the blame and then give them immunity.

See how that works. Happened once already.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
29. No, it created adaptability
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:44 PM
Jun 2013

Regulations on civilian government employees make it difficult to lay people off. Technology changes, and so technology needs change. But the old employees are still the ones on the job. Some will retrain as needed, but not all of them. At which point you're left with someone who's worked there "forever", can't work on the latest stuff, and you can't lay off without moving mountains.

The government likes contractors for any "IT-ish" system because the government can fire the contractors at will.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
52. It's not just the government. Banks, for example, LOVE the idea of disposable workers
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:58 PM
Jun 2013

I'm fighting my ass off against it!

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
75. Employment, employees.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:44 AM
Jun 2013

Why don't we talk about people? People with families, children to educate, parents to care for, people who get sick, who buy houses and then get foreclosed?

"Employment regulations" strikes me as a way to avoid facing the cruel facts.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
8. And then when it's determined it's not legal, here comes the immunity.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:11 PM
Jun 2013

Quite a racket going on there

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
6. It's all private. Security, Intel, War, hell, even the people who feed
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:10 PM
Jun 2013

the troops are private.

It's all about money. Not safety, not security, not politics, only $$$$$$$$

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
19. Nail on the head.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:35 PM
Jun 2013

And the private companies are owned by cronies of the people who wage the wars, or perform the security. All at a very inflated price. And the things these people do are outrageous. They have immunity from any crimes they commit. Ii remember a party over in Afghanistan where the mercenaries were giving themselves enemas with vodka and then another one would drink it when it was expelled. Now this is worth about what, $150,000 a year. All these mercenaries are, are former special forces guys who go back as "consultants".

Very much like the revolving door of government, lobbyist and corporations that benefit from the lobbyist who used to be a congressman who use to be a high ranking exec in a corporation who use to be - well you get the idea.

 

usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
7. That is another excellent point. These massively wasteful, ineffective, unconstitutional policies
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:10 PM
Jun 2013

are also being managed by private third parties, unaccountable to the American people.

There needs to be a serious discussion about these policies no matter what your politics are, and it needs to happen ASAP.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
12. Everything it does is not solely attributable to him.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:15 PM
Jun 2013

Some people are using Obama and Government as complete synonyms.

struggle4progress

(118,041 posts)
56. You understand that part of the logic here is that privatization removes oversight:
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:11 PM
Jun 2013

POTUS is head of the Executive branch, but that gives him approximately zero power over the contractors who provide "intelligence" services

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
10. Did you just now find this out? How can that possibly be? George H. W. Bush
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:13 PM
Jun 2013

ring a bell? Ex-CIA Director. Was there at the very beginning of the CIA. Did a very big favor for some people in Dallas. Was responsible for Iran-Contra and got off Scot free. Ex-President?

Ronnie Reagan made it legal for George. And you do realize who was running the show then, right? It wasn't Ronnie. He just looked real nice. Had some simple ideas like: Communism Bad. America Good.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
14. I actually do know all that history, I'm 63 years old, I lived through it.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:20 PM
Jun 2013

My OP is a challenge to the DUers who are caught up the pro/anti-Snowden arguments to think about the bigger picture.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
51. Ok.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:56 PM
Jun 2013

I didn't realize you'd lived through it. I was in SIGINT so absolutely none of this is a surprise to me. Except that anybody is surprised. Good god they just passed a law renewing this crap in December.

But most don't talk about the privatization aspect. They used to visit our unit. We didn't like them much.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
137. Then there is also the situation that regardless of whether this PRISM is
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:38 PM
Jun 2013

popular with the public or not, the Constitution was written to guarantee that we wouldn't have such fascistic activities arise.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
138. The Constitution is only going to work if we INSIST on it.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:43 PM
Jun 2013

If we don't object when it's abrogated, then our Constitution has been rendered inoperable.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
20. Yep...they just hired an actor to play the roll.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:35 PM
Jun 2013

Here is proof...Who can tell a president to "speed it up"?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
36. ^Post of the Day^
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:52 PM
Jun 2013

Yeah, that video proves -- without a shadow of a doubt -- that Raygun was just a frickin' figurehead for the GOP machine.

"Speed it up", indeed.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
100. Actually, every president since...
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:59 PM
Jun 2013

Has been the figurehead of Wall Street, that includes Big Dog NAFTA man, too.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
11. The Bush administration contracted all sorts of things out
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:14 PM
Jun 2013

Applications for SSD I remember were contracted out. It came of their believe the private sector does everything better.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
27. Yes, and McDonnell Douglas has done very well all these years.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:44 PM
Jun 2013

You might even say they're untouchable.

The marriage between private contractors and our National Security State is truly an abomination. And you're absolutely right, it goes way back.

Have you ever read this: The Origins of the Overclass?

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
42. Sorry, you're correct. However, they didn't exactly die, they merged with Boeing.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:03 PM
Jun 2013

I imagine that the end of the Cold War was quite heartbreaking for them.

I'll bet that the contractors of today will fight mightily against ending the War of Terror.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
15. Considering that I "wronged" some RWers years ago and they decided to ruin my life . . .
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:20 PM
Jun 2013

According to them, I have been watched ever since. Yes, it sucks and of course I don't trust them, they are greedy, ruthless, shitheads. They also view Democrats as the enemy.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
41. What did you do?
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:01 PM
Jun 2013

Not asking for anyones name or anything, just curious what was considered "being wronged"

siligut

(12,272 posts)
44. I worked for an HMO and to save money they were misdiagnosing heart attacks
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:28 PM
Jun 2013

I suggested to one patient that he get a second diagnosis and when asked, told the wife of another patient to transfer her spouse to a different hospital.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
17. Perhaps without the private contractors
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:26 PM
Jun 2013

we wouldn't have endless wars!

There would need to be a draft and we know how well that would go over.

Kablooie

(18,571 posts)
28. We might not even have this overbearing intrusion into our privacy.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:44 PM
Jun 2013

It's certainly a cash cow for the private contractors that they don't want to lose.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
18. I approve of his leaks, as I approve of casting light onto wrongs anywhere.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:27 PM
Jun 2013

The whole notion of massive non-event related spying is repugnant and only more so being done by the private sector.

I got myself an FBI file in the 70s by writing a little too much in the editorials of the student paper about the evils of government.

Ask if you have one - they make interesting reading.

nradisic

(1,362 posts)
23. Amen
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:41 PM
Jun 2013

this guy had only been working for Booz Allen for 3 months as an NSA contractor and he saw enough stuff to do what he did...

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
24. A subsidary of the Carlyle Group
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:43 PM
Jun 2013

what could POSSIBLY go wrong.

They had the foresight to include members of the Bin Laden on their board because, really, for the movers and shakers of the world, it's flat now, right? Or something like that?

We don't need no stinkin' protection from corporations. They're people.

gulliver

(13,142 posts)
37. Republicans like it that way.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:52 PM
Jun 2013

It is obviously something that should be done by government employees. But tell the Republicans you want to put national security ahead of someone getting to make money, and they will just stare at you.

Kablooie

(18,571 posts)
39. And it's totally controlled by The Carlyle Group!
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:59 PM
Jun 2013

From the 2012 booz allen stockholder's report:

As of the record date, an entity controlled by The Carlyle Group, or Carlyle, owned shares of our Class A common stock representing greater that 50% of the combined voting power of our Class A common stock, Class C restricted common stock and Class E special voting common stock. As a result, Carlyle owns sufficient shares of our voting common stock to assure the presence of a quorum for the conduct of the annual meeting and to assure the approval and adoption of the proposals in connection with which this proxy and the related materials are being delivered.

4 of the board members are from Carlyle.

---
The Bush family, the Saudi Royal family, Osama Bin Laden’s family and Donald Rumsfeld’s inner circle – these are just some of the high profile figures who have played a direct role in the rise of one of the most powerful and influential and secretive firms in Washington.
The company is called The Carlyle Group. And in the wake of the events of September 11th and the invasion of Iraq, its power and influence have become significantly stronger.

Here's a link to a documentary if you'd like to learn more about the Carlyle Group:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/iron-triangle-the-carlyle-group-2/

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
65. OMFG
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:49 PM
Jun 2013

A plague, a plague on humanity. The Carlyle Group.

I once questioned the number one reporter of the Washington Press Corps why they did not report on the conflict of interest existing in the Bush family's interest in the CArlyle Group while George W. had thepower to send American soldiers to war. (Carlyle Group being a defense contractor). This reporter, Ron Fournier, wrote in reply that he had never heard of the Carlyle Group.

BS.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
91. Poppy still gets intelligence briefings
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:33 AM
Jun 2013

The Bush family has turned our gov't into one great big racket. He is not the respectable, decent member of that clan. That man is the evil genius behind the whole evil enterprise.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
40. Profits first!
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:59 PM
Jun 2013

Does anybody really think a corporation is going to sacrifice their maximized profitability by expending the time and resources necessary to ensure that some obscure, below-the-radar, possibly labor intensive, security procedures are developed and enforced, such as, say, full and proper compartmentalization?

I don't. But then, I've always had concerns about the practical loyalties of private government contractors.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
45. Indefensible
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:40 PM
Jun 2013

Though I await the calls that Bush started it! so now we should totally accept it with a cherry on top. Defending the indefensible is insanity.

marshall

(6,661 posts)
49. And they no doubt sell our info for more profit
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:54 PM
Jun 2013

I was taken aback a few weeks ago to get a random job offer by email from a company that hires university instructors for Taiwan. How on eart, I thought, could they have thought I was interested, because I don't usually receive unsolicited legitimate job offers of this or any type through email.

Then after this story broke I thought about the fact that I call Taiwan twice a week and receive two calls a week from Taiwan. I wonder if this company somehow got a hold of my records.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
58. I suspected when this first broke that the "Private Contractors" were involved.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:18 PM
Jun 2013

In the push to Downsize the US Government the "brilliant thought" was to "Outsource" what the Government used to do with it's own workers. So Outsourcing was the New Thing. It would "supposedly save Taxpayer Dollars" and allow the Govt. to Outbid Contracts to have Competition.

Instead what we got is PAYING those Private Contractors MORE than our own Military, or Career Govt. Employees (who did get health care and some pension) over giving More to Outsourcing with Friends of Presidents and Miltary the CHOICE JOBS...

I could write more...but the breaking news tonight means that few have time to read...and those who already know like you and I are just trying to get it out there...and hoping a few might have memories refreshed about all this we've been through and what we have, hopefully learned, from the "Privatization and Outsourcing" of our Government to what in many cases is rapacious, greedy gougers embedded in the Military, Corporate Wall Street Enterprises who are using our Tax Payer Dollars to RIP US OFF with Privatization of our Military, Schools, Hospitals and whatever else they can pull off to make more money to enrich their own Companies/Corporations/Think Tanks and Wall Street Enterprises plus more.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
67. That bothers me as well
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:02 PM
Jun 2013

If they were going to do such a thing as collect information, outsourcing the entire thing to a public company is too risky and too dangerous. I'm sure the politicians that set this up years ago are bought and paid for though.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
69. Seriously!!!@!!@!!
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:18 PM
Jun 2013

We are the effing job creators! Why aren't we getting all these phones, cellphones, computers and internet access, all of our multi-media, FOR EFFING FREE!!!!!!!???????

No, it is NOT okay. If one wants to privately communicate with anyone now, it has to be person to person, out in a boat in the middle of an effing lake somewhere!

glinda

(14,807 posts)
72. Mining this data gives total control over heading off any problems
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:20 AM
Jun 2013

to their attaining their private interests. This is soooo sucky on every level.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
73. Keeping the War on Terror going most certainly serves their interests!
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:25 AM
Jun 2013

And we'll never really know how much private money went into lobbying Congress to renew the Patriot Act. It's the goose laying golden eggs for these contractors!

glinda

(14,807 posts)
118. It is even more than that. It is where you shop, what you buy, what you see....
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:52 PM
Jun 2013

e v e r y t h i n g
The amount of control having ALL info and communications on people can deliver ahead of time arguments for or against things by steering the public via Laws, media, etc.... even setting up "crisis" in order to spark conversations/debates in order to change Laws and Funding. That is it they are the Majority and have that OverLord power. Which they do.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
76. But then our govt is pretty much a private contractor at this point.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:14 AM
Jun 2013

They don't work for us anymore. I see no branch of govt truly representing the people any more. They are all corporate.

Swagman

(1,934 posts)
77. I share your rage and I am furious that nit-pickers are still moaning about whether
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:25 AM
Jun 2013

Edward Snowden or Bradley Manning is a whistle-blower or not and don't seem to comprehend or care that fascism is rapidly advancing upon us and these are all indications of how easy it is being done.

Fuck you I say to them.

Bob Dylan :"to live outside the law you must be honest"

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
109. Classic misdirection - "Look over there!"
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:27 PM
Jun 2013

Pay no attention to the festering corruption eating away at our democracy...

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
78. In the end we are going to find out that is not and never was about terror, it is all about money.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:40 AM
Jun 2013

I could not agree more, who are these people who are spying on us?

And why do they need all this data? Is it for business purposes? Are they data mining to find out people's habits so they can sell them more stuff from third world countries?

Is that why they are fighting so hard to keep us from seeing what it is really all about? Is THAT what the law suit meant when they accused the administration of 'abusing the law'?

Is that why Bush was doing it also? How embarrassing for them if it turns out it was to promote more business for the Corporations and had nothing to do with 'security'?

Everything is about money. I believe this is also. I do NOT believe it is for our security for a minute.

And yes, private contractors, who are they? And who are they really working for?

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
143. It gladdens my heart to see you too!
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:34 PM
Jun 2013

That you, me and "busy hands" Kurovski are still here causing trouble makes me happy.

atreides1

(16,046 posts)
87. Most of those contractors...
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:22 AM
Jun 2013

Are supervised by government employees...which means that those "fucking" PRIVATE CONTRACTORS are carrying out surveillance with government knowledge!

His company gains nothing by his actions...

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
88. Thanks for bringing this up
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:41 AM
Jun 2013

And I will raise you this:

People wonder how come the US has fared poorly in war since WWII. In WWII, there was a crime called "war profiteering", in other words, you were not encouraged to see wars as a means of getting rich.

Now, it is expected. Now even a Vice president can use it to enrich his former company.

Meanwhile, families go to Florida gun shows to buy their solider kids miltary equipment,like bullet-proof vests, things these 'contractors" cannot seem to do.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
90. K&R Hell no I don't think its fine. Feel like all I ever talk about is how we are being sold out
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:29 AM
Jun 2013

stepped on and relegated to the trash heap by those who prefer Wall St rule to Main St democracy.
Want to find someone who thinks what is happening is better than fine? Who silently financially backs and profits from the takeover? Find an investor.
No travesty, no human suffering, no loss of freedom, no loss of the environment, no more foul and soulless acts could be committed than corporations already have, no more reasons could be given for anyone who even slightly considers themselves a benefactor of the weak, a crusader for social justice, a friend to nature or a defender of the Constitution to abhor it.

Like the song says, for the love of money people will steal form their brother, and boy howdy, do they.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
116. We HAVE to talk about how we're being sold out.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:51 PM
Jun 2013

It's really our only hope to fight back - arousing indignation.

wandy

(3,539 posts)
92. Do you remember the devil Gun Lobby we have talked about so much of late...........
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:45 AM
Jun 2013
Do you think that Hardware, Software, Maintenance, and IT services companies do NOT have lobbyist?
This type of surveillance involves an enormous amount of equipment and personal.
Thirty years ago a company I know of charged $300.00 an hour for IT services. Do you think they paid the employee that?
Their is much money to be made in surveillance.
Profit that would make a Ferengi weep!

Sad to say this is another case where we will have to deal not only with our elected officials, but also the people they represent.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
119. Well, since the people our elected officials actually represent are the Oligarchs,
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:56 PM
Jun 2013

that's where we're at. The War on Terror is a major cash cow for all the Defense contractors - they will NOT let it go.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
120. If there's any hope of saving democracy in this country, it will only happen when enough
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:58 PM
Jun 2013

people understand what's really happening and get outraged about it.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
125. Oh, not to worry. The government has PLENTY of money to spend on the National Security State.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:14 PM
Jun 2013

Social Security? Not so much...

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
99. Hear Hear. That point is being lost. Back in the 70s my Dad was outraged how the
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:49 PM
Jun 2013

Canadian National Railway began changing scheduling so that trains would pull into stations at 4:00 am. Such changes brought about abrupt reduction of riders which allowed the CN to drop a lot of train service and increase their trucking business which was more profitable. I see the same thing happening here. These private spying companies have a vested interest in manipulating preceptions so best serve their interests.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
126. "These private spying companies have a vested interest in manipulating perceptions so best serve
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:16 PM
Jun 2013
their interests." Exactly!

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
105. well said
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:51 PM
Jun 2013

i would also add,what a waste of money for us as taxpayers to be paying to spy on ourselves

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=10054

brad has been doing a great job reporting on this

and this mother jones article adds additional insight

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/06/justice-department-electronic-frontier-foundation-fisa-court-opinion

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
117. This I agree is a problem.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:51 PM
Jun 2013

but I dont knowif this will be wasy to resolve. The government is very reluctiant to hire more employees in the current budget situation. Contractors are seen as a less expensive way to get work done.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
123. Are you so sure that contractors are "less expensive"?
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:10 PM
Jun 2013

Contractors are making PROFITS hand over fist. And they use that money to hire lobbyists to make sure that Congress paves the way to their making even MORE money.

The War on Terror is a big money maker - and as long as private contractors are making profits from it, you can be sure it will be an endless war.

Is this really how you want your government to run things?

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
128. Generally speaking, they are...
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:17 PM
Jun 2013

since they can easily drop the contractor at anytime but an employee they cannot.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
136. Sure, because a contractor making $1.3 billion in profits will just go quietly,
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:34 PM
Jun 2013

and never even think of using its billions of dollars to lobby to keep its position.

Do you really not get what a stranglehold the Oligarchs have on our government?

ecstatic

(32,567 posts)
141. Equally troubling is the growing list of congress people who voted for it but claim to not know
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:18 PM
Jun 2013

what was going on. Well why the hell not?! You're elected and paid to pay attention to the bills you're voting for FFS!!!

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