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Whistleblower defined by the United States government (Original Post) Harmony Blue Jun 2013 OP
No, he is not. Tx4obama Jun 2013 #1
Snowden is a hero Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #3
Because Americans thought the Patriot Act authorized skiing? There was no "blowing" of any of uponit7771 Jun 2013 #7
I think you should reread your OP. The part where it says explains... Tx4obama Jun 2013 #10
When you go outside the prescribe channel its not whistle blowing... Historic NY Jun 2013 #23
did you not read the entire defintion? Legality is not the only reason for whistleblowing. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #4
Apparently the United States government Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #6
You did not read everything in the OP image. A real whistleblower must go thru secure channels. Tx4obama Jun 2013 #14
There have been whistleblowers in the past who have not gone through the proper channels. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #17
We don't have to support NSA but what they are doing is currently legal and not against the law. Tx4obama Jun 2013 #21
The 1%ers do what they do legally too. Doesn't make it right. We should be putting pressure on liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #25
Not a single thing on that list applies to Snowden. ProSense Jun 2013 #2
False Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #5
Nope, that's wishful thinking. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #8
The poster by the United States government says it all Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #9
You got them in this thread and they can't stand it newmember Jun 2013 #11
There are no categories on the OP image that apply to Snowden. n/t Tx4obama Jun 2013 #12
Why didn't he go to OSC? Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #13
Bingo! n/t Tx4obama Jun 2013 #15
AP Editor: Do Not Describe Edward Snowden As A 'Whistleblower' Tx4obama Jun 2013 #16
At what point did he... one_voice Jun 2013 #18
Just because he doesn't go through the OSC doesn't mean he isn't a Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #19
I guess you could say that... one_voice Jun 2013 #26
Where in that document does it say 'must go to'? Doesn't 'may' imply 'can but doesn't have to'? idwiyo Jun 2013 #32
Key word...may newmember Jun 2013 #20
words have meanings newmember Jun 2013 #22
Thanks... one_voice Jun 2013 #27
Does "may make" equals "must make"? idwiyo Jun 2013 #24
the line between legitimate whistleblowing and leaking is drawn by markiv Jun 2013 #28
good point markiv. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #30
Daniel Ellsberg went to the press rather than the government he was busting. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #29
I heard on the news that Daniel Ellsberg's case had to be thrown out due to a technicality. Tx4obama Jun 2013 #34
Hopefully, the goons won't catch Snowden and save themselves later embarrassment. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #35
You mean the technicality that the govt illegally wire tapped him? think Jun 2013 #37
I really don't know much about Ellsberg, so it's best that I don't comment on him. Tx4obama Jun 2013 #38
He's not tammywammy Jun 2013 #31
All it means that whistleblower protection act doesn't apply in this case. So? idwiyo Jun 2013 #36
Over 30,000 folks have signed a WH petition 'to pardon Snowden' - they know he has committed a CRIME Tx4obama Jun 2013 #33

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
1. No, he is not.
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:59 PM
Jun 2013

We can all disagree with the FISA Act / NSA / etc - but it is currently legal.

Congress passed the law, the Courts are involved, and the President is backing it.

If we don't like it then we can damn that the law is changed.


What Snowden did was wrong.

He should have gone thru the proper channels, instead he fled to Hong Kong.

In my opinion he is a traitor to the USA.




Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
3. Snowden is a hero
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:03 AM
Jun 2013

and being a whistleblower doesn't mean it has to be exposing anything illegal. Read the poster by the United States government.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
7. Because Americans thought the Patriot Act authorized skiing? There was no "blowing" of any of
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:05 AM
Jun 2013

...the list.

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
10. I think you should reread your OP. The part where it says explains...
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:09 AM
Jun 2013

... how a real whistleblower 'discloses' information thru a secure channel.

Snowden went to the press and disclosed classified information. He is a traitor.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
23. When you go outside the prescribe channel its not whistle blowing...
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:25 AM
Jun 2013

fleeing to China isn't going to the office of special counsel. when you makes demands of media, newspapers for the story its not whistleblowing.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
4. did you not read the entire defintion? Legality is not the only reason for whistleblowing.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:03 AM
Jun 2013

Besides when did we all of a sudden start defending deplorable acts because they're legal. The 1% do everything they do legally because they have the legislators write the laws for them. Does that mean we shouldn't complain about what the 1% do to the rest of the 99%?

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
14. You did not read everything in the OP image. A real whistleblower must go thru secure channels.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:13 AM
Jun 2013

I will not support someone that has committed a crime against our country - and that is what Snowden has done.

He needs to be arrested ASAP, and put on trial.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
17. There have been whistleblowers in the past who have not gone through the proper channels.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:17 AM
Jun 2013

I'm not saying I support or don't support how he did it. What I will say is I don't support what the NSA is doing.

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
21. We don't have to support NSA but what they are doing is currently legal and not against the law.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:21 AM
Jun 2013

Whereas Snowden has committed a criminal act.



liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
25. The 1%ers do what they do legally too. Doesn't make it right. We should be putting pressure on
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:26 AM
Jun 2013

the current administration and Congress to do something about the Patriot Act. But apparently all anybody is interested in is making sure their party or their guy doesn't look bad. If we don't put pressure on this administration and this Congress to change the Patriot Act who will change it? The next republican administration and republican Congress?

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
2. Not a single thing on that list applies to Snowden.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:02 AM
Jun 2013

He better get a good lawyer.

"Most significant" leak in history, and likely one of the dumbest.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022987178

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
5. False
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:04 AM
Jun 2013

Under two categories applies to Snowden.

He is a whistleblower, which is why other historically famous whistleblowers back him.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
9. The poster by the United States government says it all
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:06 AM
Jun 2013

My senses are telling me that the pros have painted themselves in a corner.

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
16. AP Editor: Do Not Describe Edward Snowden As A 'Whistleblower'
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:17 AM
Jun 2013

AP Editor: Do Not Describe Edward Snowden As A 'Whistleblower'

Article here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022989251

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
18. At what point did he...
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:17 AM
Jun 2013

go to the U.S. Office Of Special Counsel?

Says right there on your spiffy little picture that OSC provides secure channels for said 'whistleblowers'. That's where Mr. 'Whistleblower' was supposed to go according to your picture.

I think you lose the 'whistleblower' status when you run to the media instead of going to proper channels. You can't hide behind the gov't definition but not follow the rules that go with that definition.



one_voice

(20,043 posts)
26. I guess you could say that...
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:27 AM
Jun 2013

BUT...a reasonable argument can be made that he's not by definition a 'whistleblower' since he ran to Hong Kong. Criminals run, it would appear by your picture whistleblowers aren't criminals.

So the argument can and should be made.

It's semantics as far as I'm concerned. I don't think he's a hero or a traitor. I have no strong feelings one way or the other about him.

I was just making an observation.

 

newmember

(805 posts)
22. words have meanings
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:24 AM
Jun 2013

Definition of MAY


1

a archaic : have the ability to

b : have permission to <you may go now> : be free to <a rug on which children may sprawl — C. E. Silberman> —used nearly interchangeably with can

c —used to indicate possibility or probability <you may be right> <things you may need> ; sometimes used interchangeably with can <one of those slipups that may happen from time to time — Jessica Mitford> ; sometimes used where might would be expected <you may think from a little distance that the country was solid woods — Robert Frost>

2

—used in auxiliary function to express a wish or desire especially in prayer, imprecation, or benediction <may the best man win>


3

—used in auxiliary function expressing purpose or expectation <I laugh that I may not weep> or contingency <she'll do her duty come what may> or concession <he may be slow but he is thorough> or choice <the angler may catch them with a dip net, or he may cast a large, bare treble hook — Nelson Bryant>


4

: shall, must —used in law where the sense, purpose, or policy requires this interpretation










must 1 (mst)
v.

v.aux.
1. To be obliged or required by morality, law, or custom: Citizens must register in order to vote.

2. To be compelled, as by a physical necessity or requirement: Plants must have oxygen in order to live.

3. Used to express a command or admonition: You must not go there alone. You simply must be careful.

4. To be determined to; have as a fixed resolve: If you must leave, do it quietly.

5.
a. Used to indicate inevitability or certainty: We all must die.

b. Used to indicate logical probability or presumptive certainty

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
27. Thanks...
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:30 AM
Jun 2013

I know how to use a dictionary. I know the difference between the two.

This wasn't necessary. I don't need to be talked down to, I didn't do that to you or anyone else.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
24. Does "may make" equals "must make"?
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:25 AM
Jun 2013

I don't think so but Englsh is not my first language, hence the question.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
28. the line between legitimate whistleblowing and leaking is drawn by
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:37 AM
Jun 2013

the power of the people you're blowing the whistle on

we'd love to think we're past that

but, we aren't

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
29. Daniel Ellsberg went to the press rather than the government he was busting.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:38 AM
Jun 2013
"our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost."

Thomas Jefferson to Dr. James Currie, January 28, 1786

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
34. I heard on the news that Daniel Ellsberg's case had to be thrown out due to a technicality.
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:54 AM
Jun 2013

My guess is that otherwise he'd have gone to prison.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
37. You mean the technicality that the govt illegally wire tapped him?
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:41 AM
Jun 2013
Trial and mistrial

~Snip~

On May 9, further evidence of illegal wiretapping against Ellsberg was revealed in court. The FBI had recorded numerous conversations between Morton Halperin and Ellsberg without a court order, and furthermore the prosecution had failed to share this evidence with the defense.[24] During the trial, Byrne also revealed that he personally met twice with John Ehrlichman, who offered him directorship of the FBI. Byrne said he refused to consider the offer while the Ellsberg case was pending, though he was criticized for even agreeing to meet with Ehrlichman during the case.[23]

Due to the gross governmental misconduct and illegal evidence gathering, and the defense by Leonard Boudin and Harvard Law School professor Charles Nesson, Judge Byrne dismissed all charges against Ellsberg and Russo on May 11, 1973 after the government claimed it had lost records of wiretapping against Ellsberg. Byrne ruled: "The totality of the circumstances of this case which I have only briefly sketched offend a sense of justice. The bizarre events have incurably infected the prosecution of this case."[23]

As a result of the revelation of the Fielding break-in during the trial, John Ehrlichman, H R Haldeman, Richard Kleindienst and John Dean were forced out of office on April 30, and all would later be convicted of crimes related to the Watergate scandal. Egil Krogh later pleaded guilty to conspiracy, and White House counsel Charles Colson pleaded no contest for obstruction of justice in the burglary. "The court concluded that Nixon, Mitchell, and Haldeman had violated the Halperins' Fourth Amendment rights, but not the terms of Title III. The Halperins were awarded $1 in nominal damages in August 1977."[25][26]

Ellsberg later claimed that after his trial ended, Watergate prosecutor William H. Merrill informed him of an aborted plot by Liddy and the "plumbers" to have 12 Cuban-Americans who had previously worked for the CIA to "totally incapacitate" Ellsberg as he appeared at a public rally, though it is unclear whether that meant to assassinate Ellsberg or merely to hospitalize him.[27][28] In his autobiography, Liddy describes an "Ellsberg neutralization proposal" originating from Howard Hunt, which involved drugging Ellsberg with LSD, by dissolving it in his soup, at a fund-raising dinner in Washington in order to "have Ellsberg incoherent by the time he was to speak" and thus "make him appear a near burnt-out drug case" and "discredit him". The plot involved waiters from the Miami Cuban community. According to Liddy, when the plan was finally approved, "there was no longer enough lead time to get the Cuban waiters up from their Miami hotels and into place in the Washington Hotel where the dinner was to take place" and the plan was "put into abeyance pending another opportunity".[29]

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg#Trial_and_mistrial



Do you consider Ellsberg a traitor too who SHOULD be in jail for exposing war crimes?

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
36. All it means that whistleblower protection act doesn't apply in this case. So?
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 01:02 AM
Jun 2013

If a have a reason to believe that even highest office of the land will try and suppress evidence of wrongdoing I should report it to them anyway? Just because they said I must? Nice racket that one is.

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
33. Over 30,000 folks have signed a WH petition 'to pardon Snowden' - they know he has committed a CRIME
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:52 AM
Jun 2013


DU OP here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022988977


So, let's arrest him and bring him to trial.
Then toss him into prison.

p.s. President's can't pardon someone that has not yet been convicted.

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