Mr. Snowden now being smeared: as "a grandiose narcissist who deserves to be in prison"

[99th_Monkey]

Clearly, the vicious dis-informational demonization of Edward Snowden has officially begun:

In the New Yorker no less. Sure didn't take long, did it?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/06/edward-snowden-nsa-leaker-is-no-hero.html

[Number23]

17. Oh my God!! That picture

I'm just... wow!! I can't believe somebody... WOW!

[magellan]

2. Eh, whether people believe him or not

....whether they care or not, we're all in the same rotting boat. And nothing's going to change that.

[99th_Monkey]

4. Precisely my friend

and that is what we are not supposed to see,
because it's one of the keys to our shackles.

[octoberlib]

5. Toobin's wife was an executive at Verizon. Don't know if this influenced his thinking.nt

[think]

6. Did not know that. Thank you. It's a small world isn't it.....

[99th_Monkey]

8. My, what an interesting "coincidence". Thanks. ~nt

[Shivering Jemmy]

36. Where should she work?

We should put together a list of approved companies for people to work at.

[99th_Monkey]

60. Not a bad idea. You should suggest that to Obama.

His NSA and CIA and FBI are keeping track of everything else we do,
so why not add this to the list?

[Smarmie Doofus]

40. +1. And shouldn't Jeffrey disclose that? n/t

[arely staircase]

7. not smeared, described

seemingly with accuracy. and really what can one say about a man who thinks china has freedom of the press or respect for privacy?

[99th_Monkey]

11. If China's so terrible

Last edited Tue Jun 11, 2013, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Why doess the USA have way more people in our prisons than China?

China is giving him some degree of sanctuary from being Aron Schwartz-ed
or Bradley Manning-ed to death, which is sad when OUR whistle blowers need
to rely on China or Equador for sanctuary, rather than their own gov't.

It's an international disgrace.

ON EDIT: Please note that I am NOT saying China is "better" than the US on
civil rights as a whole; but I AM pointing at TWO things:
1) We actually DO have more citizens behind bars (both per-capita and in real
numbers I believe), which is a disgrace; and
2) The USA IS becoming more and more invasive, unjust, and downright sinister
about spying on it's own citizens and other abuses of people's constitutional rights,
such as assassinating "suspects", jailing whistle-blowers rather than the perps of
civil rights abuses, etc. .

[arely staircase]

13. so you honestly believe china has more freedoms than the united states?

nt

[sibelian]

14. What do YOU think, arely?

[99th_Monkey]

56. Not quite yet, but we get closer to them every freaking day

under a Democratic Administration, which is quite vexing to my soul.

[arely staircase]

57. not quite? lol

China

Fearful of a protest movement inspired by events in the Middle East and North Africa, in February the authorities unleashed one of the harshest crackdowns on political activists, human rights defenders and online activists since the 1989 Tiananmen Square demonstrations. Harassment, intimidation, arbitrary and illegal detention, and enforced disappearances intensified against government critics. Ethnic minority regions were under heightened security as local residents protested against discrimination, repression and other violations of their rights. The authorities increased ongoing efforts to bring all religious practice within the control of the state; this included harsh persecution of some religious practitioners. China’s economic strength during the global financial crisis increased the country’s leverage in the domain of global human rights – mostly for the worse.





Background

China’s economy remained relatively resilient despite the global financial crisis, raising fears that international actors would be reluctant to criticize China’s human rights record, a trend already evident in the recent past. China was increasingly successful in using its growing financial and political clout to pressure other countries to forcibly return increasing numbers of Chinese nationals of certain backgrounds, such as Uighurs, back to China, where they risked unfair trials, torture and other ill-treatment in detention, and other human rights violations.
Top of page

Freedom of expression

The authorities continued to abuse criminal law to suppress freedom of expression. They detained or arrested close to 50 people and harassed and intimidated dozens more during the crackdown on “Jasmine” protests that began in February in response to the popular movements in the Middle East and North Africa. An initially anonymous call for peaceful Sunday strolls spread across a growing number of cities as a form of protest against corruption, the suppression of rights, and the lack of political reform.

Amendments in March to the Regulations on the Administration of Publications added a new requirement that those who distributed publications over the internet or information networks must be licensed, or risk criminal penalties. The authorities shut down or took direct control of a number of publications that had published investigative journalism pieces on sensitive issues. They reportedly banned hundreds of words from mobile phone text messages, including “democracy” and “human rights”.
•Two veteran activists detained during the “Jasmine” protests were sentenced to long prison terms for their political writings. On 23 December, Chen Wei was charged with “inciting subversion of state power” and sentenced to nine years for 11 articles he had written in support of democracy and political reform. On 26 December, Chen Xi was sentenced to 10 years on the same charge, for 36 articles he published overseas. Ding Mao in Sichuan province, and Liang Haiyi in Guangdong province, remained in detention for their involvement in the “Jasmine” protests.
Top of page
Human rights defenders

The authorities continued to harass, intimidate, persecute and criminalize pro-democracy and human rights activists. Activists supporting the China Democracy Party were sentenced to long prison terms.
•In March, Liu Xianbin was charged with “inciting subversion of state power” and sentenced to 10 years in prison for his pro-democracy activism, his support of the Charter 08 petition movement, and his writings on political reform.
•Human rights activist Chen Guangcheng remained under illegal house arrest along with his wife, Yuan Weijing, and daughter, since his release from prison in September 2010. A grass-roots movement in support of Chen Guangcheng, who is blind, gained momentum across the nation, with many activists posting photos of themselves online wearing his signature dark glasses. Supporters travelled from different parts of China to his home town in an effort to see him, and were beaten and robbed by plain-clothes police stationed in the area.
Top of page
Enforced disappearances

The number of people subjected to enforced disappearances grew. Many were held in secret detention, including Hada, a Mongolian political activist. Many others remained or were placed under illegal house arrest. They included Liu Xia, wife of Nobel Peace Prize winner Liu Xiaobo, and Zheng Enchong, a housing rights lawyer from Shanghai.

On 30 August, the authorities released draft revisions of China’s Criminal Procedure Law, the first proposed changes since 1997. Notwithstanding some positive amendments, the revisions proposed to legalize detention of individuals for up to six months without notification of their family or friends. Many legal commentators regarded this as a legalization of enforced disappearances. Prohibitions against the use of illegal evidence, including coerced confessions and other evidence obtained through torture and other ill-treatment, were incorporated into the draft revisions. However, torture remained pervasive in places of detention, as government policies, such as ones requiring prison and detention centre staff to “transform” religious dissidents to renounce their faith, fostered a climate conducive to torture.
•On 16 December, Gao Zhisheng, a well-known human rights lawyer who had been subjected to enforced disappearance on and off for nearly three years, was sent to prison to serve his three-year sentence for “repeatedly violating his probation”, just days before his five-year probation was due to end. During his disappearance he was believed to have been in official custody.
Top of page
Forced evictions

The forced eviction of citizens from their homes and farms, without adequate due process or compensation, accelerated and was increasingly marked by violence. On 21 January, the State Council issued new regulations on the expropriation of houses in urban areas. While a step in the right direction, the regulations only covered city dwellers and not tenants or other non-owners, leaving the majority of Chinese people unprotected against forced evictions.
•On 29 December, former lawyer Ni Yulan was tried on charges of “picking quarrels” and “fraud” and faced a possible lengthy prison sentence. Ni Yulan was herself forcibly evicted from her home in 2008, before the Beijing Olympics, and was paralysed from the waist down as a result of beatings in detention.
Top of page
Death penalty

In February, the National People’s Congress passed the eighth revision of China’s Criminal Law which removed the death penalty as punishment for 13 crimes. At the same time, it added a number of new capital crimes and expanded the scope of others. China continued to use the death penalty extensively, including for non-violent crimes, and to impose it after unfair trials. Executions were estimated to number in the thousands. However, statistics on death sentences and executions remained classified.
Top of page
Freedom of religion or belief

The authorities pursued their goal of bringing all religious practice under state control, including state oversight over religious doctrine, appointment of religious leaders, the registration of religious groups and construction of sites of worship. People practising religions banned by the state, or without state sanction, risked harassment, detention, imprisonment, and in some cases, violent persecution. Banned religions included underground Protestant house churches and Catholics who accept the authority of the Holy See. Around 40 Catholic bishops remained unaccounted for, and were presumed to be held by the authorities.
•Between 10 April and the end of the year, members of the underground Shouwang Church in Beijing were detained on a weekly basis as they attempted to hold an outdoor Sunday service in north-west Beijing. Most detainees were held in police stations or under house arrest to prevent the service from taking place. The Church had been repeatedly expelled from rented locations and prevented from taking possession of a building it had purchased years ago.

Falun Gong

The authorities continued to pursue a systematic, nationwide, often violent campaign against the Falun Gong, a spiritual group banned since 1999 as a “heretical cult”. The government was in the second year of a three-year campaign to increase the “transformation” rates of Falun Gong practitioners, a process through which individuals were pressured, often through mental and physical torture, to renounce their belief in and practice of Falun Gong. Practitioners who refused to renounce their faith were at risk of escalating levels of torture and other ill-treatment. The authorities operated illegal detention centres, informally referred to as “brainwashing centres”, for this process. Falun Gong sources reported that one practitioner died every three days while in official custody or shortly after release, and said that thousands remained unaccounted for.
•On 5 March, Zhou Xiangyang, a Falun Gong practitioner, was arrested at his home in Tangshan, Hebei province and taken to Binhai Prison in Tianjin city. He immediately went on hunger strike. He had previously spent over nine years in detention and was subjected to forced labour and torture, including sleep deprivation, electric shocks, beatings, and being stretched over a low table with his limbs anchored to the floor. The authorities continued to refuse him a lawyer. In response to an appeal written by his wife, Li Shanshan, more than 2,500 residents in and around his home town signed a petition calling for his release. She was subsequently detained in September, along with Zhou Xiangyang’s older brother and at least four others.
Top of page
Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region

The murder on 10 May of Mergen, an ethnic Mongolian herder, by a Han Chinese coal truck driver sparked widespread protests across the region. Relations were already tense due to grievances on the part of local herders who felt their livelihood was being threatened by land grabbing and environmental damage to livestock grazing from mining companies, many of which were Han Chinese.
•From 23 to 31 May, hundreds of herders and students took part in largely peaceful, daily protests across the region. While responding to some of the grievances raised, the authorities widely deployed armed security and military forces, and detained dozens of protesters. They blocked off internet sites that mentioned the protests, restricted mobile phone access and shut down most Mongolian-language websites.
Top of page
Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region (XUAR)

The authorities escalated security measures through a succession of “strike hard” campaigns which increased around-the-clock street patrols and involved “mobilizing society to wage battle” against acts the authorities claimed harmed state security. In Urumqi, whole neighbourhoods were reported to have been sealed off by security checkpoints.

Extreme restrictions on the flow of information within and from the XUAR left uncertain the fate of many hundreds detained in the aftermath of the 2009 crackdown on protests in Urumqi. In January, the head of the XUAR High People’s Court referred to ongoing cases connected to the 2009 protests, but the authorities provided no information on the trials. Family members of detained individuals were often not informed of the fate or whereabouts of their loved ones and were often too afraid to communicate with those outside China, for fear of retribution by the authorities.

Freedom of expression in the XUAR continued to be severely restricted, including by vaguely defined crimes of “ethnic separatism” and “terrorism”, which included distributing materials or literary works with “separatist content”.
•Noor-Ul-Islam Sherbaz died on 13 November, allegedly as a result of torture in prison. He was serving a life sentence on charges of “murder” and “provoking an incident” after an unfair trial. He was alleged to have thrown stones during the July 2009 protests, and was aged 17 at the time of his detention. According to a family friend with access to information from the jail, Noor Ul-Islam had been regularly beaten with electric batons in prison. His family were not allowed access to his body and the authorities buried him before an autopsy was done. The authorities failed to provide adequate evidence at his trial, except for his “confession”, which may have been extracted through torture. During his trial, he was represented by a lawyer appointed by the court.

The Chinese government used economic and diplomatic pressure on other countries, including Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Pakistan and Thailand, to forcibly expel or hand over more than a dozen Uighurs to the Chinese authorities. Uighurs forcibly returned to China were at high risk of torture, arbitrary detention and unfair trials, and were often held incommunicado.
Top of page
Tibet Autonomous Region

From 16 March to the end of the year, 10 monks or former monks and two nuns in the Tibetan areas of China set themselves on fire. Six were believed to have died as a result. These protests appeared to be in response to increasingly punitive security measures imposed on religious institutions and lay communities in the region, following the March 2008 protests. The first self-immolation, by Phuntsok Jarutsang, was followed by protests, mass arrests (including of 300 Kirti Monastery monks), enforced disappearances and possible killings by security forces. Two elderly Tibetans (a man and a woman) died after local residents clashed with security forces while trying to stop the arrests. A third man died from injuries sustained following a police crackdown on demonstrators outside a police station. Individuals connected to protests around the immolations were sentenced to prison terms ranging from three to 13 years. Despite the rash of self-immolations, there was no indication that the Chinese authorities intended to address the underlying causes of the protests or acknowledge the grievances of the Tibetan community.
Top of page
Hong Kong Special Administrative Region

Freedom of expression, association and assembly

Security forces and police used excessive force against peaceful protesters.
•During a peaceful demonstration on 15 May, the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia, police threatened to arrest protesters unless they stopped dancing. Police argued that organizers – including Amnesty International Hong Kong – had not obtained a “temporary public entertainment license”. Critics considered this harassment, having no legal basis.
•On 2 July, police arrested 228 participants in the annual 1 July pro-democracy march, for causing an obstruction in a public place and unlawful assembly. The Hong Kong Journalists Association said that 19 journalists were attacked with pepper spray and one journalist was arrested during the 10,000-strong march. Police also attempted to arrest Law Yuk Kai, Director of Hong Kong Human Rights Monitor, while he observed them removing and arresting protesters who were blocking traffic. All those arrested were released later the same day. Several were subsequently charged with disturbing public order.

During Chinese Vice Premier Li Keqiang’s three-day visit to Hong Kong in August, police set up “core security areas” keeping protesters and press away from him. Legislative Councillors and others criticized these tactics as heavy-handed, undermining freedom of expression. Police dragged away one resident wearing a t-shirt commemorating the 1989 Tiananmen massacre.

Legal developments
•In June, the government introduced controversial proposals which in some circumstances would end by-elections as the means for replacing Legislative Council members whose terms ended early.
•Also in June, the Law Reform Committee issued a consultation paper on setting up a Charity Law and a Charity Commission. Amnesty International and other rights-based groups criticized the proposals’ definition of charity, which excluded human rights activities while recognizing 13 other sectors, including animal rights.

Discrimination
•On 30 September, the High Court ruled in favour of a Filipina domestic helper, determining that immigration provisions prohibiting foreign domestic helpers from applying for right of abode were unconstitutional. The government appealed against the ruling. Critics of the government’s stance believed the exclusion amounted to ethnic discrimination.
•On 25 November, a post-operative transsexual woman lost her second appeal against a judgement denying her the right to marry her boyfriend in her reassigned sex. The Court of Appeal stated that any potential changes to law were a matter for the legislature and not the courts. The appellant said she would take the case to the Court of Final Appeal.

Refugees and asylum-seekers

In July, the government introduced the Immigration (Amendment) Bill 2011, as a step towards creating a statutory framework to handle claims made under the UN Convention against Torture.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/china/report-2012

[99th_Monkey]

58. Listen. I'm no big fan of China. Get it?

Yet I stand by my statement that every day we are becoming more like
China, in that our civil liberties are eroding fast before our very eyes.

An unfortunate fact, that you seem perfectly happy to completely ignore.

[MADem]

19. Well, China doesn't keep 'em in jail--they EXECUTE them.

More executions than the rest of the world put together! And even though we have our share of executions, we are rank amateurs, occasional hobbyists, compared to China.




Those are "thousands of executions" just to be entirely clear, now. I think it's important to not paint China as some happy-happy-glad-glad place where everyone loves everyone else and there are never tanks in the public square....and don't you think how many people a country kills shouldn't be a "state secret?" Well, in China, it is!

As the report points out, China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, the U.S. and Yemen remain the biggest users of capital punishment. We don’t even know how many people China executes each year — those numbers are considered state secrets.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/04/10/an-eye-opening-map-of-which-countries-execute-the-most-prisoners/

[BillyRibs]

26. Why should we Execute them!?

When can use them for a source of cheep labor?

http://www.thenation.com/article/162478/hidden-history-alec-and-prison-labor

We still incarcerate more people than any other country in the world.

BTW why this straw man argument!? Which BTW you lost as well.

[MADem]

37. I'm not advocating execution. Pull the string.

The argument being advanced was how swell China was compared to the mean ole' USA, doncha know.

I'm not the loser--of arguments or anything else--here. I am simply imparting information. People who take things the wrong way, who overlay their biases and prejudices on the comments of others, who get snarky, rude and childish, are the ones with the problems.

Save a few of the smilies for next time. Or don't.

[redgreenandblue]

29. per capita or absolute?

[MADem]

35. China's execution rates are a state secret. But from all accounts, they slaughter 'em like cordwood.

It's why Amnesty expresses concern.

[randome]

52. 'slaughter 'em like cordwood'.

I didn't want to laugh at that but I did!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[geek tragedy]

22. What would China do to someone who leaked this kind

of stuff about their intelligence efforts?

Do you doubt that a Bradley Manning would have been lined up and shot?

[BillyRibs]

30. I Don't Gives a RAT's ASS What China Does or Does Not Do!?

China Isn't interested in my personal behavior. Snowden hasn't broken any Chinese Laws. The better question is, why do you Pose a Straw man Argument?

[treestar]

32. It is weird to see how desperate is the attempt

to defend China as a better place than the US! For civil rights, of all things!

[midnight]

38. I find it even more desperate that America has been using China's business model to

emulate over here in America...

[treestar]

39. Not proven, not related, has nothing to do with my post

China is run by the state. The state runs all aspects of people's lives. Even tries to tell them how many children to have. Restricts religion. Free speech is nonexistent.

[MADem]

42. Execute them, of course.

See the chart I provided elsewhere in the thread. They aren't shy about execution as a method of takin' care o' business.

[treestar]

31. You dodged the question

You jumped into support of Eddie too quickly. Now you are reduced to defending China as a better place for civil rights than the U.S.

You seem to think you can put the label "whistle blower" on someone and that's the end of the discussion. They are criminals, having broken the law.

[treestar]

33. Our prisoners at least got a trial, and due process

We at least can speak our minds without fear of being imprisoned. We can demonstrate without being run over by tanks. Good grief, what a corner you've painted yourself into! Better to just admit Eddie is a dummy (if heroic) for running to China. When he could have stayed here and faced the music, which is what real heroes do.

[Bonobo]

46. Some of them anyway. nt

[snooper2]

50. you watched that movie way too many times

lol

[Cali_Democrat]

9. People are certainly allowed to form their own opinions about Snowden

Right?

[arely staircase]

10. no the cool-aid must be drunk

he is a hero

and china respects free speech

gag

[99th_Monkey]

12. Yes, I believe that is exactly what is happening.

Hence this discussion. You got that right as rain.

[OilemFirchen]

54. Nope.

If you don't worship hero Snowden, you are an Obama cultist.

If you are unable to ignore every single lie that forms the basis of this scandal, then you'll believe everything the government tells you.

If you cannot keep an open mind about utterly pure, honest and brave Snowden then you have been brainwashed.

Do not tell me you can't see the distinctions.

[Cali_Democrat]

55. point taken

[Bonobo]

15. Strange how often they go to the "narcissist" thing.

I have heard it applied to Nader, Cornel West, and Julian Assange.

I guess it is narcissistic to be someone who sees a commitment to principles as being more important than "party loyalty".

[99th_Monkey]

16. Actually, it seems the opposite to me

narcissist = selfish, only looking out for #1, self-absorbed, etc.

Showden = selfless, looking out for the whole collective, self-confident, etc.

Yes it is odd that this charge is one often made, re whistleblowers.

To me it shows how desperate they are for "bad" things to say about this man.

[DCKit]

48. +1... not to mention their target audience doesn't know what it means.

Educated people shouldn't be writing the propaganda. Then again, let 'em waste their damn filthy money on words with more than two syllables.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. Aren't those the qualifications for election to Congress?

[WinkyDink]

20. Gee, I always thought a "grandiose narcissist" belonged on stage, or in the White House.

[geek tragedy]

21. Grandiose narcissist is less controversial than belongs in prison. nt

[Laelth]

23. Grandiose narcicist, huh?

It seems that, when all other avenues of attack fail, projection is the last resort. Seems very Republican to me.

-Laelth

[GeorgeGist]

24. Jeffrey Toobin.

Narcissist extraordinaire.

[99th_Monkey]

59. Projection is a powerful force, as Mr. Toobin so graphically illustrates. ~nt

[BillyRibs]

25. Jeffrey Toobin.

is being slow roasted by the New Yorker's Readers, and the apologists commenting on the article are being called out as well. Meanwhile, Ellsberg is calling this the way to halt the surveillance state we've become.Will we have an American Summer? Stay tuned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017124450

[Babel_17]

43. Lol, thanks for the heads-up! Loving those readers comments (nt)

[treestar]

27. If he can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen

Of course he's going to be looked at. He's the one who wanted to be talked about. He never had to reveal himself.

Too many people jumped into worshipping him 5 minutes after he came to light. That's never a good idea. Now you have to label his faults as "smears." So why is it OK to criticize the faults of others, but not his?

[leveymg]

28. McCarthyism 101: If you don't have the facts on your side, attack character

Example:

our system offers legal options to disgruntled government employees and contractors. They can take advantage of federal whistle-blower laws; they can bring their complaints to Congress; they can try to protest within the institutions where they work. But Snowden did none of this. Instead, in an act that speaks more to his ego than his conscience

Clue to Toobin, Snowden saw and learned from what happened to the NSA whistleblowers before him - they were fired, largely ignored by the corporate press, and then quietly prosecuted. I'd say, that this guy doesn't display narcissism, he's merely learned form the example of others, and approached the problem differently. And, you know what, it worked.

[baldguy]

34. He's left a lot of stuff to be smeared with.

Snowden isn't a hero, he's an idiot douchebag.

[sibelian]

41. Yes, of course he is.

It's all rather predictable, isn't it?

[HipChick]

44. Snowden did his own smearing..he lies..

a lot

[ProSense]

45. Eugene Robinson: "he comes across as grandiose to the point of self-parody"

<...>

Snowden is the 29-year-old intelligence analyst and computer geek who leaked some of the National Security Agency’s most precious secrets to journalists from The Post and the Guardian. He is now on the lam, having checked out of the Hong Kong hotel where he holed up for several weeks as he orchestrated a worldwide media splash that shows no sign of ending.

Snowden betrayed his employer, the consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton, and his promise not to divulge classified information. He paints what he did as an act of civil disobedience, but he has decided to seek political asylum abroad rather than surrender to authorities and accept the consequences. In published interviews, he comes across as grandiose to the point of self-parody, a legend in his own mind.

He is an imperfect messenger, to say the least. But his message should not be ignored.

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-snowdens-nsa-leaks-show-we-need-a-debate/2013/06/10/002911b6-d203-11e2-8cbe-1bcbee06f8f8_story.html

No one with any objectivity is going to defend this guy, and a pardon is highly unlikely.

'Pardon Edward Snowden' Petition Seeks White House Response
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022988977

AP Editor: Do Not Describe Edward Snowden As A 'Whistleblower'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022989251

"Most significant" leak in history, and likely one of the dumbest.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022987178

[NoPasaran]

47. He's not grandiose

[CakeGrrl]

49. If he broke the law, he goes to prison. Simple.

If people want to kill time debating his narcissism, I'm sure they'll do so.

[Renew Deal]

51. How do you know it's a smear or "vicious dis-information"

Do you know this guy?

[NoOneMan]

53. Thereby showing the value of anonymous leaking

If you put a face behind truth, theyll beat it with the ugly stick. People need to figure out how to get information out in a way that there is no one who can be deamonized to hide it (and wikileaks did not work of course either).

[Blue_Tires]

61. Of course with "anonymous" leaking, it's much harder to verify and authenticate

no one in the public will take it seriously, and it's a system too easy to scam/hoax/whatever..

[NoOneMan]

62. No one is really verifying this either

Too busy slaughtering the messenger. So what's the point?

[Blue_Tires]

63. Well, Washington's reaction "verifies" it for us

And no matter if Snowden is a sinner, saint, plant, patsy, super-spy or just a man with a conscious, there are a million still-unanswered questions about him, his career, and his motivations behind doing this...

[KurtNYC]

64. Yes. If I held a press conference in Hong Kong and said that the US Gov has genies

and unicorns that it uses for extra-judicial mass surveillance then I would not be violating any oath of secrecy. On the other hand Boehner and others seem to be confirming that Snowden HAS revealed actual sources and methods.