And here it is: NSA chief: Surveillance helped stop "dozens" of threats

[cali]

"It's dozens of terrorist events that these have helped prevent," Army Gen. Keith Alexander, the NSA director and head of U.S. Cyber Command, said before the Senate Appropriations Committee. He said the exact number was classified but that he's working to publicly release those figures over the next week.

Alexander was testifying before the committee in a previously scheduled hearing on cybersecurity, but his appearance marked the first time an NSA official publicly testified before Congress since news broke that the agency is collecting all of Verizon's U.S. phone records, as well as internet content from non-U.S. internet users abroad.

In response to questions from Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., Alexander said it was impossible to say that any one specific surveillance program was responsible for thwarting a terrorist attack.

"When I say dozens, what I'm talking about here is that these authorities complement each other in helping us identify different terrorist actions and help disrupt them," he said. "They complement each other, so what you're asking me is to state unequivocally 'A' or 'B' contributed solely to that -- the reality is they work together, and we've got to help make that clear to you."

Alexander said he "could not be more proud" of officials at the NSA and cyber command.

<snip>

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588969/nsa-chief-surveillance-helped-stop-dozens-of-threats/

[Ichingcarpenter]

1. How many were FBI plots?

LOL
Yeeeaaaaaaah, I'm gonna need to see some documentation on those foiled plots, General.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Exactly.

[reusrename]

76. Here ya go!

TransCanada Caught Training Police to Treat Nonviolent Keystone XL Protesters as Terrorists


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023006743

[Octafish]

35. It's like picking up the phone and the person you were gonna call is already on the line.

Uncomfortable, but only for a moment.

[treestar]

46. Why would you assume it never happened?

Never ever?

[Monkie]

52. in 1 year, 508 terror prosecutions, nearly half involved paid informants

From fall 2010 – fall 2011 alone, Mother Jones and the Investigative Reporting Program at UC-Berkeley examined 508 alleged terrorism prosecutions. They found:

nearly half involved paid informants;

sting operations targeted 158 defendants;

agent provocateurs were involved in 49 plots;

“with three exceptions, (all) high-profile domestic terror plots of the last decade were actually FBI stings;”

most often, “key encounters” between informants and targets aren’t recorded;

[AnotherMcIntosh]

58. Apparently not enough for those who need stories to justify the spying on all Americans

because somewhere, somehow, somebody is doing wrongful things.

[pnwmom]

69. Yeah, and 9/11 was a CIA plot.

[DCKit]

74. No, that was allowed by the White House.

That's how we got here.

[reusrename]

75. Here's some o' them terra-ists that got arrested!

TransCanada Caught Training Police to Treat Nonviolent Keystone XL Protesters as Terrorists

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023006743

[Squinch]

2. You called it Cali!

[Autumn]

3. Yeah, kind of like the Boston bombing

USA USA USA

[treestar]

4. You don't seem to realize how utterly un-objective you've become

This is not true simply because you already decided it is not.

There could have been some plots disrupted. That has to be taken into account in balancing the interests.

[L0oniX]

10. There would have been plots disrupted without the NSA ...Bush ignored pre 911 info.

[treestar]

47. Maybe but I'm not really willing to assume

as I see no reason to, that the NSA is entirely useless and never succeeds in doing anything useful. It defies the odds.

[tech3149]

15. You don't seem to realize that those in a position of power or authority

will ALWAYS lie to maintain their position.
Seriously, I'm a child of the 60's and have been a student of history for most of those years. There hasn't been one incident of significance that hasn't been lied about or obfuscated by those in power to avoid embarrassment or blame for their actions.
To those people, WE DON'T MATTER! They feel no compunction to tell us the truth or try to garner our support.
We are the useless eaters and should just shut up and die.

[randome]

17. ALWAYS? Are you serious? So you trust no one? That sucks.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[hobbit709]

22. Not those in power.

[treestar]

49. they don't have to lie to maintain their positions when they've existed so long

The NSA like OSHA or EEOC or IRS - sure they all have problems and aren't perfect. Not everyone who works in these places is corrupt. They aren't entirely useless - these bureaucracies manage to carry out their intended purpose at least some of the time, if not most of the time.

[LittleBlue]

20. These intel officials have been caught lying countless times before

Most recently when Holder and Clapper have both been caught lying under oath to congress.

Why would anyone believe a word of this without proof?

[treestar]

50. All of them all the time?

And they never do anything useful?

that's too much cynicism for me.

[Aerows]

54. If someone will get up and lie to Congress

You don't think they will lie to you?

[HooptieWagon]

57. Whats a little perjury when billions of dollars in government contracts ...

and possible crimes are involved? Do they lie?...Only when their lips are moving.

[Marr]

61. You're talking about a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment.

Since you want to judge things in the balance, consider that balance. Trampling a fundamental right on the word of people who are regularly caught lying-- here I'm talking about intelligence officials.

[Savannahmann]

23. Ballancing the interests?

I've heard that a great deal lately. We have to balance privacy with security. But security is not mentioned in the Constitution. Common Defense is listed twice. Yet, the right to be secure in your person or papers is listed quite specifically. Also, the right to consult with council, which is prohibited by the PATRIOT ACT NSL's. Right to be tried by a jury of your peers, unless it is a National Security matter, and then you can be detained indefinitely.

There is no mention of balance in the Constitution. There are limits to Government power to do pretty much everything they have been doing. Now, what oath did every Congressman and the President take? The oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Yet that darned document gets in the way.

Take if you will, the first Amendment. It begins Congress shall pass no law. It does not say that the Supreme Court shall find invalid any law which...

I wonder what we'll fight for next? Perhaps a national database of all people who object to anything the Government does. Oh wait, we already have that.

[treestar]

53. Common defense is security

And we have to have something or a nation can't remain a nation.

You can't be detained indefinitely illegally in the US. You have a right to jury trial always - Manning doesn't because he is in the military.

The oath to protect the Constitution could be sincere - people just don't always agree.

The problem of Congress passing no law is checked by judicial review. There's no other practical way to enforce that. If everyone agreed on what might or might not violate the First Amendment but that will never be as long as humans are human.

[East Coast Pirate]

40. Because this sounds so believable:

"When I say dozens, what I'm talking about here is that these authorities complement each other in helping us identify different terrorist actions and help disrupt them,"

[treestar]

55. I think it is possible though

That sometimes good outcomes are there. It's just as believable as assuming it's all useless.

[East Coast Pirate]

73. I don't think it's all useless.

I think the MIC is out of control with no one to stop them.

[JHB]

78. The point is it's a self-serving claim with no means outside verification

How expansive is the data collection vs to what extent did it aid the good outcomes?
What parts of the collection were truly useful vs what parts are just collected for kitchen-sink reasons?
What are the safeguards against abuse of the data? How effectively are those rules enforced?

Sometimes reducing a response to "take my word for it" isn't particularly effective.

[Pale Blue Dot]

42. IMPORTANT: I would rather that these alleged plots had not been disrupted,

potentially endangering my life, than let a future politician, whose opinions are the opposite of mine, use this "legal" program to gather my personal information without my knowledge or consent. Period.

[cali]

51. Objectivity is nonsense. None of us objective

we all have our biases and view matters through our individual prisms. The best we can do is recognize that, acknowledge facts and listen to opposing points of view.

[Le Taz Hot]

71. How unobjective Cali has become?

OMG. That's rich!

[SlimJimmy]

77. I know. All those facts seem to be getting in the way of other opinions.

[indepat]

5. Sounds like ubiquitous, nebulous, specious, non-specific ya-da, dada, dada

[L0oniX]

6. A boast about pride always invokes a wait for the downfall.

[sibelian]

8. How does one "involk" something?

Is it German?

[MindPilot]

16. I think that means it is done from inside the car

das auto

[sibelian]

7. Thar she blows....

[xiamiam]

9. maybe they are reading your posts cali..you gave them 1 wk..its less than 24 hrs

its bs and we all know it

[woo me with science]

12. Like Old Faithful!

K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Hmmm. This guy should enlist a certain word salad poster here to write his "answers".

[MindPilot]

19. +111!11!

You get the Golden Surveillance Camera Award!

[cali]

48. ......

I have no idea who you could possibly be thinking of.

[hootinholler]

80. !

Actually I have no idea which who they are thinking of.

[rhett o rick]

14. I wonder if he counts catching Gov Eliot Spitzer with his pants down

as one of the victories. nm

[randome]

18. This was testimony, not an 'announcement' to throw you off the track, cali.

Would you rather he had lied?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[bvar22]

25. Testimony??!!!!

Here is some more "testimony" for ya!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-10-2013/good-news--you-re-not-paranoid---nsa-oversight

[MNBrewer]

28. No, I'd rather that he had told the truth.

[timdog44]

37. At what point

do we stop thinking everyone is lying. It seems that the only one who does not lie is cali? In cali we trust!!!

[hobbit709]

21. My response to that statement.

[Catherina]

24. Easy statement to make when you classify the Occupy Movement as a threat

and Animal Activists
and Environmental Activists
and Palestinian Activists
and the Anonymous movement
etc
etc

[nineteen50]

30. Even those we know we

don't know about yet.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

59. What about Quakers? Why did you leave out Quakers who were considered a threat in the 60's?

[WinkyDink]

64. Well, Nixon WAS a Quaker.... ;-)

[AnotherMcIntosh]

66. Not a very good one.

[Catherina]

67. Same reason I left off the Black Muslims lol. I see them as etc if not very active now

Gad, you know how long a real list would be lol?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

68. Apparently, a real list would include us all.

[Catherina]

72. No kidding

I wanted to get in touch with an old friend recently but I lost his address. You think they'd send it to me? Pretty please? FOIA and all lol.

[blkmusclmachine]

26. TRUST US

We wouldn't lie to you

again.

[Skip Intro]

27. You called it. n/t

[WillyT]

29. LOL !!! - Perfect !!! - K & R !!!

[Swede Atlanta]

31. Bullshit...

I could see in his eyes he was lying like a rug...he never once actually looked into the camera. That is psychological warning sign for lying.

First...he never said that "traditional" surveillance techniques or those less intrusive would have prevented the alleged threats

Second....I think he is ginning up on the number of threats. Were these domestic? International? CIA or FBI plots (which we know they both do to stir up trouble)?

Third....He said nothing about oversight specifically as to how he assures us that NSA employees are not using their access to information inappropriately nor, more importantly, how he insures that the thousands upon thousands of spy mercenaries that work for private companies that are paid to spy on Americans are prevented from accessing and using the information illegally.

So aside from whether the program is unconstitutional which, as an attorney, I would say it is based on a very basic read of the 4th Amendment, the issue is whether this shill is lying. I maintain he lied through the entire briefing.

[warrprayer]

32. what did Greenwald say?

something about they better save their talking points for when the rest of the info is released?

[grasswire]

33. I will believe this when my senator (Wyden) tells us that he has seen..

...the record of those incidents and they are vetted authentic.

[ProSense]

34. NSA snooping has foiled multiple terror plots: Feinstein

NSA snooping has foiled multiple terror plots: Feinstein
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/06/18796204-nsa-snooping-has-foiled-multiple-terror-plots-feinstein

That was six days ago.

[JDPriestly]

44. It also chilled our exercise of our constitutional rights.

The trade-off doesn't sell me, not at all.

We Americans are getting the bad end of the deal.

I really like freedom of the press. I really do. I also like freedom of speech and of association and the right to counsel and a fair trial.

There are other ways to prevent and stop terrorism. How about adopting a stricter visa system?

How about refusing US air space to airlines that don't vet their passengers before allowing them on planes that could come to the US?

[Not Sure]

36. Oh, well in that case...

I withdraw my objections and concerns. Clearly I was worried about nothing. They're spying on me responsibly.

[BillyRibs]

38. How Many FBI Co-interl Pro!?

Those who surrender liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security.-Franklin

[Fearless]

41. You want to stop plots against the US then...

STOP INVADING FOREIGN NATIONS, GUARANTEE PEOPLE FOOD AND SHELTER, AND TREAT OTHERS BELIEFS WITH FUCKING RESPECT.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

60. Where's the profit in that? n/t

[Fearless]

63. The profit for mankind is inexorable

For corporations... zilch. Which is of course why we don't do that.

[JDPriestly]

43. And it also chilled all our rights.

We have no way to save our rights other than to abolish this program.

We have other ways to prevent terrorism. For one thing, we could keep terrorists out of our country. We could do that by improving our system for issuing visas. We need to do that anyway.

[DCKit]

45. Actually it's trillions, but it's all sekret, so we'll never know.

Besides, the FBI is running out of dupes. There just aren't that many stoopid people left.

[leveymg]

56. Uh huh . . .

[WinkyDink]

62. Dozens? Why not scores?! Thousands! Brazilians!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Just like surveillance discovered the WMD in Iraq and the 2nd Tonkin Gulf incident.

And, led us into two glorious wars.

[Catherina]

70. Here's another *terrorist* threat joint intel is working to stop

TransCanada Caught Training Police to Treat Nonviolent Keystone XL Protesters as Terrorists

Their use of the word terrorist is sooooo convenient.

They're claiming to stop fake threats no one can check on and manufactured threats by going after more activists as terrorists. What slimeballs these guys are.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

79. The public is supposed to take his word on that, and our members of Congress aren't permitted

to give out any details.

A potential perfect storm of government gone out of control.