Oops. A little more truth leaks out.

[PSPS]

This won't sway any worshipers out there, but I heard some press conference on the radio today with the daily episode of "spinning with the NSA" where we were fed the latest "all of this stopped a billion attacks! Honest!!11!"

First, we're told that "only metadata" is being swept up and retained. The worshipers say, "See? That's not so bad. It isn't like they're listening in on the call or anything. Besides, Obama is better than Hitler/Christie/Bush!"

Well, whoever it was today let it slip that, after they procure their "secret warrant" from their "secret court" based on "secret laws" along with their "secret interpretations," they can "go back and get that" (meaning the actual telephone call.) So, in fact, all of our telephone calls are being recorded and retained. I guess that explains the million square feet of digital storage they're building in Bluffdale, Utah (plus another one near Washington) to store untold yottabytes of data.

[Tien1985]

1. Would you link this? Nt

[bunnies]

67. Link shmink.

A random poster on the internet heard it from some random person on the radio and it lines up with what some here seem to want to believe. Ergo, it absolutely must be true. Get it?

[11 Bravo]

2. If it's fair to call the President's supporters "worshippers", I guess we can call you a "hater" ...

right?

[Marr]

4. Don't you? /nt

[A Simple Game]

19. Not only do they call us haters, but 2010 was all our fault. Funny

we don't ever get any credit for 2008 or 2012.

It's also funny that the "worshipers" never seem to debate the facts, just call names.

[LanternWaste]

27. Members of both sides appear to do that

Members of both sides appear to do that While yet other members of both sides appear to discuss rationally.

I think anyone using "worshippers" and "haters" are firmly in the first set, and quite irrational in holding the other side to a higher standard than they hold themselves.

However, I have no doubt you'll rationalize your own use of it though...

[WeekendWarrior]

31. Divide and conquer

The GOP strategy that works.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

66. Only on DU

The rest of the country couldn't care less.

[CakeGrrl]

7. I wonder if the short-term-thinking namecallers

are going to want to come sucking around for EVERYONE'S support for their preferred candidate.

That should be fun.

[midnight]

25. Bravo some of us want to do away with the abuses of the Patriot act and the

surveillance. It's not sustainable... We can't even feed our children adequately, or provide safe schools.... That's all....

[sabrina 1]

45. Already done. A whole OP calling DUers 'Snowden fans' eg. Did you object to that btw?

But names don't bother me, I just got told I am 'emotional' etc etc, so what??

What bothers me are people who support Bush policies and defend Republican liars like our current Director of Intelligence, Clapper. Why do we have Republicans in these positions of power? Didn't we elect Democrats to get rid of them?

[rhett o rick]

64. Your logic is screwed up. Just because I dont "worship" the president doesnt mean I hate him.

But I see how you need to try to sell that logic.

I worship the Constitution. I am a hater of the Patriot Act and domestic spying.

I am not found of Republicans. I am lesser found of Bush Republicans and that includes Clapper.

[11 Bravo]

69. It was a rhetorical question. I despise the absolutists who seem to be taking over this place.

Support the President? WORSHIPPER! Disagree with him? HATER! (Which was the point of my rhetorical exercise.) In favor of reasonable gun control? GUN GRABBER! Responsible gun owner? DELICATE FLOWER (with a REALLY small dick)! And I could go on ... and on ... and on ...

When I joined this gathering, 11 years ago, I thought it was the most amazing site on the web. How things have changed. (Oh FUCK! Does that observation make me a DU HATER?)

[rhett o rick]

70. It's easy to put "absolutists" on ignore. nm

[11 Bravo]

71. I've never put anyone on ignore. I'd rather be pissed off than potentially uninformed ...

with regard to what the fringe, on either side, currently holds to be "fact".

[railsback]

3. You're right

Everyone should be worshipping Comrade Snowden for trotting off to a Communist country with a bagful of who knows what, because that's the patriotic thing to do.

[Marr]

5. Right on cue-- an attempt to shift discussion to the leaker.

This is getting tiresome. But I'll give you extra points for using an old 'commie' put down. Haven't heard one of those in years and years.

[railsback]

8. Yes, I'm sure its getting tiresome

Same for Greenwald. He also attacks those not worshipping him as WH cronies.

[LondonReign2]

35. And that has shit-all to do with the massive data gathering machine in the OP

Misdirection FAIL

[railsback]

40. Right

Well, sounds like you better get out your tin cans and string, crush your phone, cancel your internets and hide in a hole because data mining is here to stay. You're being mined right now by unknown sources.

[truebluegreen]

47. Well, bless your heart.

And enjoy your stay at DU.

[OilemFirchen]

49. That poster's been here since 2009.

You?

Not so much.

[truebluegreen]

52. Um, so what?

If someone--and to be fair there are many--is more concerned about Greenwald or Snowden than about the actual NSA program at issue, then I have no problem calling them out. Sue me.

[OilemFirchen]

56. Enjoy your stay.

[truebluegreen]

57. aaaaaargh!

a mortal blow...

[railsback]

59. Oh, you were 'calling me out'? Must have missed that one

Anywho, who in their right mind WOULDN'T be concerned about what Snowden is packing and offering to foreign countries?

Enjoy your stay at DU!

[Mojorabbit]

62. Miserable fail. nt

[carolinayellowdog]

10. on the up side, it's a transparently stupid and snarky attempt

doomed to fail

[OilemFirchen]

50. Fail at what?

Attempting to determine the veracity of Snowden's claims?

Would failing at that be a good thing?

[bvar22]

9. Did you voice your disgust back in 2000....

...when Bill Clinton signed the bill conferring Most Favored Trade Nation status on "Communist" China?

Where is the outrage?

[theaocp]

18. I wasn't outraged back then

but I should have. I've learned since and cannot stand to listen to Clinton anymore. Just More Frauds.

[rwsanders]

28. Some of us were...

I've also been disgusted that whoever was in office allowed them to buy plenty of weapons from us while publically criticizing their human rights record (yet giving them the tools of abuse). Can't remember why at the time, but the only thing that convinced me to vote for Clinton was the hope that it would translate into a Gore presidency in 8 years (although he's far from perfect also).

[railsback]

38. Yes, never been a fan of free trade

but fail to see how this ties in to Snowden

[A Simple Game]

23. So now that we know how you feel about the leaker, tell us how

you feel about the information he leaked.

Are you for or against the government data mining information about US citizens?

[railsback]

33. It may come as a surprise to you

but this is nothing new. The government doesn't mine data, the private sector does. This was the issue way back when when Bush was doing it (without warrants) and when that was rectified, no laws were made to abolish said tactics. I don't know why everyone is so shocked. Perhaps they just need something to be outraged about.

The REAL issue here is what the private sector is doing with this information, since apparently they don't have much oversight. Which brings us to Snowden. Who knows what this guy harvested and is carrying around with him, who strangely ends up in China, feeding them information.

You're all barking up the wrong tree.

[A Simple Game]

42. You're funny. Thanks for the laugh. The one thing the government has admitted to is that

they are mining data, on this issue there is no question. Good try with the "it's ok because the government is using contractors" angle. No it isn't a surprise that Bush was doing it and if I recall correctly it was being done before him, I can't recall the details but seem to remember something about satellite dishes in Australia. Why I am outraged now is because we have a President that said he would stop this type of behavior by the government.

The REAL issue is why the government is doing what it is doing, not who they are paying to do it. Who knows what Snowden harvested? Let's hope we can find out. As for the China part, seem that they are not the only ones to participate in hacking and what is starting to appear to be corporate hacking. Who does corporate hacking benefit? How do I as an ordinary citizen benefit from my country paying people to do corporate hacking?

If only we had a transparent President! I'm sure we can agree on that point, can't we?

[railsback]

55. Transparency only goes so far

Obama rejected Bush's warrantless wiretapping, and voted for the FISA Act. He never said he would discontinue NSA surveillance. And what exactly should be transparent, anyways? We already have a court reviewing and issuing warrants and such for surveillance. Should that court be open? Of course, then every single criminal / suspect / collaborator would know they were about to be 'spied' on. There's hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of 'persons of interest' roaming the globe, who correspond with countless others via phone, internet and such. I understand a good portion of those correspondences probably are innocent, like ordering pizza, but as in any investigation, do you leave those stones unturned? The NSA, like your local law enforcement, or a car, is a tool and only operates at the level of efficiency as its operator. I can wrap my head around the functions of the NSA and can deal with it. What I have a problem with is with people like Snowden, who work at these private data mining centers with not much oversight, who can steal what they want and then run off to foreign countries and demand ransom. THAT needs to change.

[snooper2]

6. ROFL I can't believe people believe this

It's starting to get sad...

I guess the ONE bright light in all of this is the far left and teabagging far right finally have found an issue they can come together on. Who knew Michael Moore would be holding hands with Rush Limbaugh in the summer of 2013. Movie comes out in Jan 2014


Oh, one other- people found out there are measurements for units of data larger than a gigabyte

[theaocp]

22. Yea, who woulda thought

that Americans are eventually going to have to work together to maintain this country of ours? Mayhap the overreach of the government and their corporate cronies will finally do so. I'll disagree with the baggers on tons of stuff, but spying on us is not one of them. Flame away. I'll save it on my hard drive that measures in terabytes. It's been around for a while.

[bobalew]

53. Yeah, we completely skipped over the terabyte, poor thing...

[Catherina]

11. You forgot Palin.

It's Hitler/Christie/Bush/Palin. I wouldn't want you misrepresenting that drivel lol.

Seriously, I thought this was already clear but thank you for pointing it out because it's obvious we don't know enough about the extent, the magnitude, the staggering depth of this program almost trillion dollar a year program.

And they say we're too broke to give kids decent school lunches lol. Or give the elderly, the poor, a little heat in the winter.

[SomethingFishy]

12. And they say we're too broke to give kids decent school lunches lol. Or give the elderly, the poor,

Bingo.. No money for infrastructure, for kids, the elderly or the poor, they all have to join in the "sacrifice". But terrorism? As Thom Hartmann put it "They are spending all this money trying to save less people than are killed by falling in a bathtub every year".

[Catherina]

15. And that's where it all falls apart.

Close to a TRILLION dollars yearly (that we know of) to protect a few dozen people from terrorist attacks that they prompt with all their geopolitical redesigns, interference, bullying, meddling, theft, exploiting etc. Naw, just tell the truth. This is all to prevent people like Occupy from rising up and interfering with their for-profit geopolitical redesigns, interference, bullying, meddling, theft, exploiting etc.

And then to further insult us, we have to pay for this and they make the profit.
We have to slave away and pay their salaries and they get fat pensions.
We pay them to intercept and analyze our every visit to a doctor/therapist so they can get healthcare while we get none.

And all this under the pretext of saving "less people than are killed by falling in a bathtub every year".

Tighten your belts folks. Don't complain. We're killing people all over the world to keep you safe. Just keep genuflecting like mindless drones.

[AtheistCrusader]

20. There isn't even any evidence it's effective enough to save a dozen people a year.

[Catherina]

34. Nope but since they drivel that we need to be more pragmatic, throwing them a bone lol

The only people this whole monster is designed to save are the hides of the profiteers.

[A Simple Game]

32. It is starting to look like it's designed to protect the 1% and their corporate profits.

Also to suppress the middle class and cover for corporate spying.

[Catherina]

63. It's a simple game ;) n/t

[secondvariety]

44. Amen.

[Drew Richards]

21. give the elderly to the poor? Are we Feeding the elderly to the poor now? Why wasn't i told sooner..

SNark

[SomethingFishy]

24. LOL.. smartass...

I didn't even notice that bit of ace grammar...

Hey now that I think about it.. it could solve a lot of problems..

[Catherina]

36. Make the pie higher! Put food on your family!

MAKE THE PIE HIGHER
by George W. Bush

I think we all agree, the past is over.
This is still a dangerous world.
It's a world of madmen and uncertainty
and potential mental losses.

Rarely is the question asked
Is our children learning?
Will the highways of the Internet become more few?
How many hands have I shaked?

They misunderestimate me.
I am a pitbull on the pantleg of opportunity.
I know that the human being and the fish can coexist.
Families is where our nation finds hope, where our wings take dream.

Put food on your family!
Knock down the tollbooth!
Vulcanize society!
Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher!

[SomethingFishy]

39. LMAO...

And that is why I would never say "Obama is as bad as Bush"....

You know if I weren't married I'd probably be chasing you all over the internet...

[Catherina]

46. Shucks lol. Glad you liked it. Bush the poet, who know lol ;) n/t

[Hydra]

13. Of course they're reading our mail and listening to our calls

And even this post, in real time.

That data center is in my state. I heard on another OP that it needs $40 Million dollars of electricity every year. Everything any of us has ever said or done anywhere it could be recorded will be stored there, and even the PGPs and other encrypted data will be stored and cracked as they can.

The various people posting that it's "only this" or "only that" and "legal" are only looking at snippets of an entire data gathering and processing operation, and we can only guess how many trillions of dollars it's costing us all to do it.

Think about that for a moment- the economy is still super sluggish, the green revolution never happened, and we're throwing away trillions to spy on ordinary people...while children go to bed starving.

Welcome to Soviet Russia, Comrades!

[marions ghost]

29. +++ yes

[railsback]

43. Well, when your friends and family start disappearing in the middle of the night

maybe that would be a fair comparison.

[Hydra]

48. I expect to be one of the first to "disappear", though I can't rock the boat much

But other people have disappeared too...not that anyone cares. Mostly political enemies, some normal people, a smattering of whistle blowers.

Most of what we've seen has either been pragmatism(need to shut someone up) or testing to see how far they can go without people freaking out.

[railsback]

58. You have to factor in the private sector for disappearances

With the amount of wealth they've been able to hoard, they can operate small private armies, like Monsato.

[Hydra]

60. True, and I forgot about some of the "terrorist" groups

Like the people protesting the Keystone pipeline or the fracking.

Damn, now you have me all again :p

[one_voice]

14. Oh look ANOTHER Hitler...

comparison. I won't even comment on the worshiper bullshit.

[JoePhilly]

16. Well ... if you heard "whoever it was" on "some press conference on the radio today" ...

... clearly, we should all be very very concerned!!!

I'm curious, did "whoever it was" mention that the "secret court" with its "secret warrants" was created publicly, in legislation proposed by Ted Kennedy and signed into law buy that well known Fascist, Jimmy Carter back in 1978?

[SunSeeker]

41. I guess none of these folks read Bamford's 1982 book, "The Puzzle Palace." nt

[midnight]

17. You do a marvelous dot to dot.... Thanks for connecting them for me...

[riqster]

26. Some details would be helpful. Link? nt

[reformist2]

30. Here's Tim Clemente, former FBI Agent...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. "that explains the million square feet of digital storage they're building in Bluffdale, Utah"

Wrong.

That place is to monitor the entire planet.

It's nothing personal.

[nashville_brook]

51. yotta k and r

[Cha]

54. But, you got all the haters so wtf do you care?

[treestar]

61. What are they doing with this data?

The are so evil for spying on us, so what are they going to do to us with this data they've complied on us?

[Progressive dog]

65. Since you're doing "humor" posts you should add it to your journal

You're not anywhere near as good as Colbert or Stewart, but who knows where you'd be with practice. I especially like the use of yottabytes in your post. The internet transmits about .0003 yottabytes a year of data and the government is building a $2 billion dollar facility to store all of it. That is really funny.
Thanks for the laugh.

[bunnies]

68. 54 recs for a link-free, name-free, unconfirmed bit of hearsay.

heh. Who knew.