Peter King just made sense re: Snowden on msnbc

[flamingdem]

Last edited Fri Jun 14, 2013, 02:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Hate to agree with him but he said the obvious. Snowden chose to release documents alleging US spying operations on Chinese targets exactly when Obama was having sensitive discussions with China's leader here in Palm Springs.

This is truly glaring and not heroic by any measure. How can this be defended?

ps For the ironically challenged - I am not a King Apologist Bear!

[flamingdem]

1. Crickets? No one willing to defend Snowden on this?

His good outweighed this bad?

[cali]

14. because it's not about Snowden. duh.

it's about the NSA and the ever increasing massive surveillance states.

As I said before, hero or demon's spawn, I could give a shit. I care about the issues not the personalities. little minds focus on the personality dog shit

[flamingdem]

18. I am asking who defends what he did and his timing

That doesn't answer the question

[allin99]

19. it's not about snowden. that's not what king is fighting for....

he wants citizen to not be concerned about nsa activities.

[sabrina 1]

64. You believe Peter 'we count the votes' King on anything?

Here's what I think, if Peter King says something I assume automatically it is a lie.

What next, Fox News is now a truth-telling 'news' organization?

But back to reality. This isn't about Snowden. And those supporting the massive surveillance program better hope he is not a spy, because that will only prove how disastrous it is to trust any government with our Constitutional Rights, and you can be sure that your new friend Peter King will blame it all on Obama.

Just stick to what's right, our Constitutional Rights should never be given up and the fact that they have, is simply shocking, that anyone calling themselves a Democrat supports these Bush policies is even more shocking.

I support the Constitution. That makes life easy for me. I don't have to go support morons like King, or Ari Fleischer or Snowden or Bush's policies to try to justify my being willing to ignore it when OUR team does wrong. I just couldn't do that. Have you noticed that it's mostly Republicans, like Clapper and Fleischer who are rushing to support this program? That alone should warn people about which they are on.

[Enrique]

2. it's nice to see King so concerned about Obama's diplomatic efforts

[flamingdem]

5. We know he doesn't give an NY rats ass about Obama

but at least he knows a diplomatic disaster when he sees one.

[arely staircase]

3. I think it is entirely possible that Snowden was in contact with the Chinese before he sought

sanctuary there.

[Fla Dem]

24. This is all sounding way to contrived to me.

If this was a spy thriller movie, where the "hero"
-was a high school dropout
-where both the community colleges he said he attended has no record of him
-was kicked out of the army after 3 months
-goes to work at the NSA
-get his next job at a NSA sub-contractor at a salary of $122,000
-moves to Hawaii with a good looking girl
-receives a high level security clearance
-has access to the most sensitive documents regarding government surveillance
-after 3 months at his job somehow manages to steal high security documents
-turns those documents over to a reporter who just coincidentally he had been in contact with BEFORE he went to work for the sub-contractor
-up and leaves his girl friend in Hawaii and seeks sanctuary from one of the most oppressive governments in the world
-releases those documents which details electronic surveillance on that country just as the President is meeting with the head of that oppressive government

We would give the movie a thumbs down as way too far fetched to be real.

I am not happy that the NSA is collecting all my electronic data. But to me this guy is not a whistle blower. This information was known by congress. These procedures are legal under the Patriot Act. If this guy wanted to bring these practices to light, there were plenty of outlets in the USA he could have used. He went to a foreign country to "expose" the practices, he has sold information to the Chinese press, and he is hiding in a foreign country. By revealing this information the way he did, it has compromised any advantage the NSA had in tracking terrorist plots. In my books he is a traitor.

[arely staircase]

25. I know. If you shopped it as a script it would be too far fetched, except maybe as a comedy

starring Michael Cera.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. 1000++++

[JackN415]

58. If you brought this script to a publisher...

The publisher might ask if it were a class project of Beginner Writing 101 in an adult education program of some community college.

[uponit7771]

4. +1, Greenwald had a chance at a REAL story 1.) Background checks at NSA 2.) access...

...to direct tapping by contractor specialist to heads of state without supervision

These were bombshells in and of themselves

but he had to make this a Obama worse than Bush peice of crap story

[flamingdem]

7. Yes, but those bombshells don't garner that many more eyeballs

and international fame.

He's playing the fame game and will parlay it into expensive media appearances and the pro lecture circuit. Big bucks await him now, plus donations, maybe for legal fees!

[Aerows]

13. Oh I doubt that

He'll be on the run for the rest of his life (Snowden I mean - Greenwald will be under a shit-ton of scrutiny, too).

[allin99]

21. snowden's life is pretty much over...

you're not serious that he did it to be on a lecture circuit, are you?

[flamingdem]

22. I was referring to Greenwald nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

50. He cut corners to write a story that fit his preconceived narrative

it is blowing up in his face...which is why he is now lawyered up!

[hrmjustin]

6. I can not defend Snowdens actions. He will have to answer for his actions one day in court.

I don't trust him at all. Agreeing with King can make anyone ill.

[geek tragedy]

8. Ugh, do not cite Peter King for proof of anything nt

[truebrit71]

9. Except that assholes can talk...

...that he proves regularly...

[flamingdem]

10. Maybe not but it somehow struck me that the damage Snowden did

was outrageous.

There is no connection between hurting US China relations and the poutrage we are seeing.

No one on this thread is defending this act, the one with the most long term consequences for the US.

We needed progress on curbing piracy and hacking from China. It was FULLY undermined by allegations that were made no doubt without real proof - documents.

[geek tragedy]

11. I doubt it seriously disrupted relations.

If China's leaders were unaware we were spying on them, they're criminally incompetent.

[flamingdem]

12. Dismay, Anger in China After Allegations About U.S. Hacking

damage was done.

Certainly at the popular level. It does appear that it was news to many.


--

A 29-year-old former government contractor’s claims that the U.S. has been hacking Chinese targets since 2009 prompted both dismay and some bemusement on both the mainland and in Hong Kong, where he has been holed up for nearly a month.

In an interview published late Wednesday by Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post newspaper, Edward Snowden, a former contractor for the U.S. National Security Agency, said he believed there had been more than 61,000 NSA hacking operations globally, including hundreds in Hong Kong and on the Chinese mainland. Those claims followed intelligence leaks Mr. Snowden made earlier this month to British newspaper the Guardian about U.S. surveillance, which prompted a political furor in the U.S.

When it comes to Hong Kong politics, activists typically see Beijing as the main source of meddling in local affairs. Although the former British colony returned to mainland rule in 1997 and continues to operate with its own distinctive political systems and rule of law, pro-democracy activists fear Beijing is encroaching on the city.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/06/14/dismay-anger-in-china-after-allegations-about-u-s-hacking/

[geek tragedy]

17. stagecraft from the Chinese. Given their propensity to launching

hack attacks at our infrastructure, especially.

[flamingdem]

20. Yes, as in I am 50/50 on whether the Chinese prompted the whole thing

or if Snowden set US interests back for the sake of his own hide.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

15. I place no stock in the timing of the articles' publicaiton

The President is always doing something important somewhere. If he was worried about the timing of the release of these stories, not engaging in the behavior outlined in the stories would have been a good move on the President's part. When Greenwald publishes his next story--and he says this will be very soon--someone somewhere will complain about the timing of that story too. No matter what day it comes out, it's going to inconvenience some people, and it's going to derail some agendas. It's the nature of scandals of this magnitude to do so.

[allin99]

16. Peter King is going say...

whatever he can to discredit snowden, but it's not about snowden. the more invasive the surveillence, the happier mr. king is.

[arely staircase]

63. and treason

nt

[Marr]

23. Hey-- you're right! That *is* a great idea to ignore the information that was leaked!

[Baitball Blogger]

26. Though I am happy to know it's happening,

I'm not crazy about the fact that it has strengthened China's hands in the negotiations.

[flamingdem]

29. Exactly, how does that fit Greenwald or Snowden's shiney motives?

It doesn't, it's a screw up, and if planned pure treason.

[DesMoinesDem]

27. Wow. Agreeing with Peter King? What the hell has happened to this place?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. So, the NSA is spying on us to please the Chinese?

Now, there's something I didn't think of. Now that I have, I'll just...

[flamingdem]

30. Do you defend what Snowden did regarding revealing 61000 cases of

the US hacking Japan.

Yes? No?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Yes. I'm not a fan of spying.

[flamingdem]

32. It gets worse. Now Chinese citizens distrust the USA. That is not a positive

going forward for anything that requires world agreement, say climate or trade

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. So, how did spying on Americans help the situation?

[flamingdem]

34. It's unrelated, which is why what Snowden stands for is bogus

He doesn't give a shit about our interests or those of the world to lessen distrust and work for peace.

He's self seeking and grandiose.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. So, how did spying on the Japanese help the situation?

What about the issues surrounding spying rather on the one exposed the spying?

[flamingdem]

36. We could also discuss international relations, war, climate change

but this is why I limited the discussion.

The question is whether you defend what he did by compromising US interests regarding Chinese activities

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. If we didn't spy on them, or the American people, there wouldn't be anything to "compromise".

Do you blame the Chinese for being pissed off at being spied on? No matter who reveals it.

[flamingdem]

40. Nice attempt to avoid answering the question!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Nice attempt to avoid the issue of spying on the American people.

[flamingdem]

42. I am focused on the Chinese

you don't want to answer the question

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. I have answred your question. Snowden is not the issue.

You're defending a policy of spying. And, when caught out doing it, complaining about the revelation of the spying.

I repeat:

Snowden is not the issue.

[randome]

46. If you want all spying across the planet to stop...well, good luck with that.

I want there to be more niceness in the world, too, but I don't much expect the world to change because of that.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. You got to start somewhere. And, stopping the NSA spying on Americans seems a good place to start.

[HangOnKids]

38. Work For Peace?

Jesus, did the entire 5th grade get the memo?

[DesMoinesDem]

51. Same neocon argument used not to release Abu Ghraib photos.

[marions ghost]

65. If you're looking for the Chinese to "trust" us

I think that's not realistic. And likewise we don't "trust" them. Everything is negotiation, business deals. I wouldn't mistake pleasant formalities for trust. It's a kabuki dance and everyone wears a mask.

[LittleBlue]

39. Peter King- new DU hero

[flamingdem]

44. hyperbolate much?

[LittleBlue]

45. Has King ever received a positive thread on this forum

until today?

I thought not.

[flamingdem]

47. There are probably things I agree with Bush on

even Reagan SOOOOO?

[HangOnKids]

67. Really?

How fucking shocking....NOT.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. No, Snowden didn't talk about China until after the talks were over

The talks ended on Saturday: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jun/08/obama-concludes-talks-with-chinese-president-xi/

Snowden didn't reveal himself as the source until Sunday. He talked about the spying on China very early Thursday, Hong Kong time, so Wednesday, US time.

So, King does not 'make sense'. He didn't 'say the obvious'. He's just wrong. As anyone with a vague memory of what happened this week would realise, even without looking it up.

[flamingdem]

53. Well this points to Xi already knowing about it

since he complained about it to Obama.

This is verrrry interesting in fact.

This means that the bombshell was set to explode immediately after the talks.

Sounds like Snowden is owned by the Chinese.

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. WTF are you talking about?

"he complained about it to Obama"?

Link, please.

[flamingdem]

57. Do a search - I read it in an article

that I found with terms like

xi hacking

xi palm springs

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. No, it's your claim, you show us

You know which article you're talking about - you can find it quicker.

[flamingdem]

62. check i just posted it nt

[flamingdem]

59. here is the article

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/06/obama-and-xi-talk-cyber-to-press-not-so-much-each-165727.html?hp=r2

However, at a press availability following the nearly three-hour session, Xi did not respond directly to an American reporter's question about whether China is responsible for computer intrusions targeting major institutions in the United States.

"China is a victim of cyberattacks," Xi insisted. He complained that media reports might "give people the sense that cybersecurity as a threat mainly comes from China or that the issue of cybersecurity is the biggest problem in U.S.-China relations."

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. That's it? A reporter asks whether China hacks US institutions

and he replies China is a victim of cyberattacks. He doesn't accuse anyone. If you think the Chinese are so bad at computer security that they can't even tell when someone is trying to break into their systems until an NSA contractor tells them, then you must think we have nothing to fear from them at all, since they'd be less competent than, say, CBS News, who are now pointing out a reporter's computer was hacked.

So, no, that doesn't show in the slightest that Snowden said anything to the Chinese while the talks were on. We can say, once again, that King is full of shit. Sadly, you are desperate to believe him.

[progressoid]

54. ^^this^^ +1

[flamingdem]

55. Why thanks, I think I just made a halfway decent connection

It's the timing.

And it's interesting to see if we can feel firm about what happened, chicken - egg.

That might be all we ever get to go on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. I love it how Peter King is playing you

It's not about Snowden, but what was revealed. Go back to sleep...