New Greenwald Guardian Op/Ed: Edward Snowden's Worst Fear Has Not Been Realised – Thankfully

[Hissyspit]

http://www.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/14/edward-snowden-worst-fear-not-realised

Friday 14 June 2013 14.00 EDT

Edward Snowden's worst fear has not been realised – thankfully

The NSA whistleblower's only concern was that his disclosures would be met with apathy. Instead, they're leading to real reform

In my first substantive discussion with Edward Snowden, which took place via encrypted online chat, he told me he had only one fear. It was that the disclosures he was making, momentous though they were, would fail to trigger a worldwide debate because the public had already been taught to accept that they have no right to privacy in the digital age.

Snowden, at least in that regard, can rest easy. The fallout from the Guardian's first week of revelations is intense and growing.

- snip -

In the wake of the Guardian's articles, I heard from journalists and even government officials from around the world interested in learning the extent of the NSA's secret spying on the communications of their citizens. These stories have resonated globally, and will continue to do so, because the NSA's spying apparatus is designed to target the shared instruments used by human beings around the world to communicate with one another.

The purpose of whistleblowing is to expose secret and wrongful acts by those in power in order to enable reform. A key purpose of journalism is to provide an adversarial check on those who wield the greatest power by shining a light on what they do in the dark, and informing the public about those acts. Both purposes have been significantly advanced by the revelations thus far.

MORE AT LINK[p]

[graham4anything]

1. sorry, but you lost me at Greenwald. nt.

[Hissyspit]

9. I'm crushed.

[caseymoz]

33. Perhaps you were lost before she mentioned Greenwald

and only chose to acknowledge it by then.

If that seemed a personal attack, so was your remark about Greenwald.

[Hissyspit]

39. He.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And unlike the sound and fury here

Americans seem to get it.

US polling data, by itself, demonstrates how powerfully these revelations have resonated. Despite a sustained demonization campaign against him from official Washington, a Time magazine poll found that 54% of Americans believe Snowden did "a good thing", while only 30% disagreed. That approval rating is higher than the one enjoyed by both Congress and President Obama.

While a majority nonetheless still believes he should be prosecuted, a plurality of Americans aged 18 to 34, who Time says are "showing far more support for Snowden's actions", do not. Other polls on Snowden have similar results, including a Reuters finding that more Americans see him as a "patriot" than a "traitor".

[ProSense]

4. Greenwald: Edward Snowden's worst fear has not been realised – thankfully (cites polls)

While a majority nonetheless still believes he should be prosecuted, a plurality of Americans aged 18 to 34, who Time says are "showing far more support for Snowden's actions", do not. Other polls on Snowden have similar results, including a Reuters finding that more Americans see him as a "patriot" than a "traitor".

Greenwald: Edward Snowden's worst fear has not been realised – thankfully (cites polls)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023016898

[Cali_Democrat]

6. A majority of Americans want Snowden prosecuted

Also, that was before revelations of him giving the Chinese information about US hacking in China.

[leftstreet]

21. Link?

[Cali_Democrat]

23. Ask and ye shall receive:

But an almost identical number of Americans — 53 percent — still said he should be prosecuted for the leak

http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/13/new-time-poll-support-for-the-leaker-and-his-prosecution/

[caseymoz]

32. Of course they think there should be a trial.

There is a law on the books, you know, that we just can't ignore no matter how totalitarian it is.

The next question should of have been, Should be acquitted?

The next one after that, Should the law be struck down?

Their thinking there should be a trial doesn't mean anything without those other two questions.

[Cali_Democrat]

36. Yes of course he should be entitled to a trial

Prosecution doesn't mean conviction. Prosecution in this case just means the US attorney would file and the legal process would ensue. Who knows, they might even go to a grand jury first...prior to filing charges.

[rhett o rick]

24. Ah yes get the mob and the rope and we will fix this situation.

Close the box and everyone go back to "Dancing with the Stars". Your government would never lie to you or spy on you.

[KittyWampus]

19. actually, it shows people aren't in the circle jerk so many DU'ers are in. A MAJORITY BELIEVES

E SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.

Funny how you gloss over it.

In otherwords, Americans aren't the reactionary screamers so many DU'ers are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Reading is not my strong suit

And English is my third language, American it's the fourth...

But this is again from that quote.

a plurality of Americans aged 18 to 34, who Time says are "showing far more support for Snowden's actions", do not. Other polls on Snowden have similar results, including a Reuters finding that more Americans see him as a "patriot" than a "traitor".

54% of Americans believe Snowden did "a good thing", while only 30% disagreed.

Now math is also hardly my strong point, but 54% is larger than 30%. I attended one of those developing world schools, so perhaps they taught me a different math.

And plurality is another word for majority.

But hey, it must be that king's English instead of Murican.

[think]

29. Those pesky numbers...

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I know

But it might very well be that foreign math. I mean we did things in meters and centigrade.



For real I keep my jeep temp gauge in centigrade.

[caseymoz]

34. Do they believe he should be acquitted?

A trial might just mean they think law and proper procedure must be followed. Which you would expect.

You've somehow equated their wanting a trial with their thinking he's guilty and should be punished. Somehow. Remember, the trial isn't supposed to be the punishment.

See #23 above.

[dionysus]

3. LOL! Greenwald nt

[sabrina 1]

15. Well, that was an in depth comment.

But at least Greenwald is never ignored, his former supporters from the Bush years never miss an opportunity to kick one of his threads. I believe he used to thank the Bush supporters who populated his blog slamming him as a 'traitor' during the Bush years. He was very smart not to ban them, his comment sections, thanks mainly to them, were some of the longest on any blog post.

[Catherina]

5. Senate's oversight function "cannot be done responsibly if senators aren't getting straight answers

This led to one senator, Ron Wyden, issuing a harshly critical statement explaining that the Senate's oversight function "cannot be done responsibly if senators aren't getting straight answers to direct questions", and calling for "public hearings" to "address the recent disclosures and the American people have the right to expect straight answers from the intelligence leadership to the questions asked by their representatives".

One well-respected-in-Washington national security writer, Slate's centrist Fred Kaplan, has called for Clapper's firing. "It's hard," he wrote, "to have meaningful oversight when an official in charge of the program lies so blatantly in one of the rare open hearings on the subject."

The fallout is not confined to the US. It is global. Reuters this week reported that "German outrage over a US Internet spying program has broken out ahead of a visit by Barack Obama, with ministers demanding the president provide a full explanation when he lands in Berlin next week and one official likening the tactics to those of the East German Stasi."

Excellent. Thank you Senator Wyden. Thank you to everyone who's not missing the real issue here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Frank church must be doing flips in his grave

He was the last to get more straight answers.

[graham4anything]

11. Most certainly, in 1980, Frank Church would NOT have voted for Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

and Church voted WITH President Carter in giving back the Panama Canal to Panama.

Had of course so many not voted for Ronald Reagan and John Anderson against President Carter, nothing that happened since 1/17/1981 would have happened.

[Catherina]

12. "more straight"!

Stop it, you're killing me lol.

Can you believe that man's gall? "least untruthful" indeed. See you later

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Yup, but those were special days.

After watergate, and the hearings placed the country at great risk, according to the Ford Administration. Some things never, ever change.

[giftedgirl77]

8. his worst fear has yet to be realized

Now that he has been kind enough to not only let all US Citizens know our Intel secrets he's decided to go & tell the Chinese the game plan old Snowden has another thing coming.Glen can print the definition of whistle blower all day long but it's not going to make it come true.

I'm not arguing that some of this stuff shouldn't have came out but now he has gone off the deep end & will most likely drag Greenwald down with him. Conspiracy to commit espionage, treason, or whatever else they can throw at them they will.

I'm sure people are identifying Snowden as a patriot because right now he is acting just like the rest of the assholes in Rand Pauls stupid little club trying to fuck up this country. Patriot stopped being a compliment 5 years ago, when all the idiots were running around with their misspelled signs & teabags all over them.

[Catherina]

10. I'm sorry about the loss of your pony

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Editing to say goodbye. It wouldn't be polite to put you on ignore without letting you know not to waste your time. I'm not interested.

[graham4anything]

13. UNREASONABLE. Nothing here is unreasonable. And the vast majority of the public agrees.

[caseymoz]

35. A warrant for a specific search from probably cause?

That's what's defined as unreasonable. Their general spying program, which are draining your tax dollars, were done on a broad warrant without probably cause, and from a court that refuses to grant a warrant.

With that leg of your argument knocked over, I wonder how are you going to support it when you find the "vast majority of the public" doesn't agree? This issue is not going to go away. It's going to be an itch that continues to get worse. I hope you soon enjoy your days trying to argue from the minority point of view.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Before I follow suit

Excellent response.

I liked the Pony line...it is getting tiresome with these folks. I should have done this fourth amendment with the other follower I put in iggy earlier in the day...instead I got a hidden post by the glorious juries.

[Catherina]

18. I figure that's the only polite response because I'm not getting into it

with people who defend something so basic, so monstrous. As one European put it

its a pity all your much vaunted rights and unique democracy seem to have failed to protect you against the excesses of your own government, who seem to have decided to save the terrorists the trouble of ruining your freedoms by pre-emptively beating them to it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023010041#post17

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. To me it *is* very familiar

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023017085

[magellan]

27. +1

Thanks, I hadn't seen that. Harsh but true.

I had a conversation with some acquaintances on this subject yesterday. They don't like what the NSA is doing, but kept going back to terrorism to justify it. When I asked them if we're Americans or mice the hemming and hawing was startling. Irrational fear has convinced too many people that our privacy is negotiable.

This isn't the first instance of us forfeiting our rights to terror, and it won't be the last.

[Catherina]

28. I wish you were wrong on that

and would love to say you are but look around lol.

[giftedgirl77]

16. whatever makes you feel better

telling secrets to a foreign country especially one that we are not on great terms with is not ok.

Everything I stated had to do with his actions in regards to the Chinese & was not political, so you immature little comment shows how little you have to add to the conversation.

[xiamiam]

25. please provide the link which states that he told secrets to a foreign country..nt

[giftedgirl77]

30. Happy reading

He is more than happy to explain plenty of details.

http://m.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china

Disclaimer: I'm sending this from my phone so I'm not real sure how it will workout.

[xiamiam]

38. he went to the newspaper and told all of us..there is a difference...nt

[giftedgirl77]

40. What are you trying to say?

He went to a Chinese newspaper & disclosed to them several different ways the US was gathering intel on the Chinese. There are at least 3 paragraphs in the link I provided that disclose this.

Even with the weak whistle blower status he was trying to claim before went out the window with that interview.

Greenwald can be implicated as an accessory after the fact for the Chinese bit & a co-conspirator for the other piece.

[Bonhomme Richard]

26. I am grateful that the authoritarians have shown themselves.

They have come out of the woodwork and show who they really are.
I understand questioning the individual but it goes way beyond that .They are adamant and fixated on the messenger and not the message.
You are the scary ones.
The Government response to all this screams volumes. Me thinks they protest too much.

[carolinayellowdog]

37. I am grateful that they will be proven wrong over and over with each new revelation

It's not what Greenwald has already published that inspires the frenzy, but what is ahead. If they didn't know he had further bigger stories to come, there wouldn't be such a propaganda campaign to smear him preemptively.