Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

okaawhatever

(9,461 posts)
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 04:56 AM Jun 2013

Judge: Obama sex assault comments unlawful command influence.

Two defendants in military sexual assault cases cannot be punitively discharged, if found guilty, because of “unlawful command influence” derived from comments made by President Barack Obama, a judge ruled in a Hawaii military court this week.

Navy Judge Cmdr. Marcus Fulton ruled during pretrial hearings in two sexual assault cases — U.S. vs. Johnson and U.S. vs. Fuentes — that comments made by Obama as commander in chief would unduly influence any potential sentencing, according to a court documents obtained by Stars and Stripes

On Wednesday and Thursday, Fulton approved the pretrial defense motions, which used as evidence comments that Obama made about sexual assault at a May 7 news conference

“The bottom line is: I have no tolerance for this,” Obama said, according to an NBC News story submitted as evidence by defense attorneys in the sexual assault cases.

‘I expect consequences,” Obama added. “So I don’t just want more speeches or awareness programs or training, but ultimately folks look the other way. If we find out somebody’s engaging in this, they’ve got to be held accountable — prosecuted, stripped of their positions, court martialed, fired, dishonorably discharged. Period.”

Continued in article: http://www.stripes.com/judge-obama-sex-assault-comments-unlawful-command-influence-1.225974




20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
1. Obama reflects my views on this. He can't win, really. People yell he must use the 'bully pulpit.'
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 06:02 AM
Jun 2013

If he does say something that reflects his views and those of millions of unpopular people like sexual assault victims, someone will claim the same bully pulpit denied their rights. Yeah, there should not be undue influence, but to call his words 'illegal' - give me a break.

So they're going to keep on getting away with it and harm others if they aren't discharged. When they finished their time, they'll get a honorable discharge and benefits and go back to civilian life to do the same. The judge using those words that even if found guilty they can't be discharged is saying the service protects rapists. They're untouchable now.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand was right and people in the Congress were wrong to allow these judges to protect felons in uniform. What a fucking disgrace and I do mean fucking.




davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
7. Part of the problem is the military as an institution protects their own
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 08:22 AM
Jun 2013

which means people get away with things they shouldn't. How do you reform one of the largest and oldest parts of our republic? That is the $64,000 question.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
12. The other part of the problem is that the military has been
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 08:56 AM
Jun 2013

turned into a mythical institution whose members are bestowed hero status by virtue of the uniform they don. When we quit endowing demigod status on the military because we're able to distance ourselves from their actions, then we will get somewhere with this.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
13. Very very true
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 09:02 AM
Jun 2013

As I have said before I have a friend who is also a doctoral student and she is in the Navy. Her dissertation will be about sexual assault in the military. I told her after she's finished she needs to find a way to get that in front of someone's nose high up so they see how it is affecting women in the military.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
18. Same way everything is being changed, Acts of Congress. It requires changes in that body first.
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 03:04 PM
Jun 2013

We need more Senators like Kirsten Gillibrand and Claire McCaskill who mirror the views of Obama and others to change the military. We already have Michelle Obama working on the needs of soldiers and their families, and those Senators like Patty Murray who work hard to attend to the needs of soldiers and their families and we need more.

And less swayed by private defense contractors who have been a source of illicit behavior again and again. Working alongside regular military they cannot be ignored, nor has the sexist voice of Rush on AFN. They have effected people in uniform and IMO, denigrated the force. Yes, this has been going on for a long time and some veterans joined these companies to act an the fashion of mercenaries to make up for what they saw as a lack of financial gain in their years in the service. They are a formidable economic and political block in this country, and not for the better, I say. We must elect their opposition.

I don't want those who are and have been doing what is right, to be punished by the acts of those who have found an unofficial (and I still will say unofficial despite my anger, justified or not at this judge going against the tidal change that must happen on this issue) niche to commit predatory acts in uniform. Rape culture has no place in our government, supported by taxes.

Goodness knows there has been enough to be angry at the military about, for which Congress and presidents who were elected by the public for whatever reason, set them on the path to do. They are not a law unto themselves, but with large bureaucracies, like large corporations, they may appear that way. While some may want to destroy all large organizations hoping it will free mankind, the needs of mankind can sometimes only be meet by large groups.

Life in uniform is a transformational event. The people in the service are trained to do things we find laudable, such as those who went to assist Hurricane Sandy survivors and communities and those who come back to use their educations to move us forward in many fields. I'm not bashing all of them, but I won't excuse criminal behavior that maims the lives of others.

Because that isn't moving us ahead. A number of women and men who were mistreated and did not get justice from these military run courts have come back to lives of mental disorder, homelessness and committed suicide. They could have been so much more, and have been devalued while the perps have not. It's time to turn that way of thinking around wherever it is has a foothold. I'm sure, from the comments of veterans here at DU, that the vast majority of those who serve and have served, don't want these perps finding a comfortable home where they once risked everything.

It's about badly needed social change. When the orders on racial integration in the service by Harry Truman came into effect, there was still opposition to it but change came, and it was past time it came. The military has been forced to effect social engineering within its own ranks that have benefited society in the past, and the people who leave the military will be helping move society forward from their latest changes, with women and gays.

Even though we have this to deal with now, it will change. Those who join the service come from many backgrounds and cultures but many have said their time in the service changed their views on other people and upon their return to civilian life, transformed their neighbors with their experience. This is going to happen again.

MH1

(17,595 posts)
15. What you said.
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 09:15 AM
Jun 2013

It's disgusting. The military has shown that as an institution it is incapable of addressing this problem.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
19. Keep people who believe in equal rights in the White House and vote out those in Congress who don't.
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 03:12 PM
Jun 2013

The institution is a creation of government, is there to support our people and values, and we have to show with our votes what our values are. It's as simple as that. We need more Gillenbrands, McCaskills and people that are angry at rape in office, instead of leaving the military and nation in the hands of bigots. No one said it'd be easy, and this country has been convulsed from the left and right trying to move it forward and backward. This is who reforms these institutions, which are tools of the people that pay for them to exist. We must take control or they will disintegrate into a state of mind such as paramilitaries and juntas.

That's the nature of unregulated institutions they will keep pushing the limits until the people take away the funding that allows it. Right now we have too much private money funding those who are robbing the public trough and their morals are reflected in government. It's still up to us, we are many, they are few. We can't be fooled by their bravado. We're still the boss until we give up and let them rule us.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
2. This is absolutely disgusting :-(
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 07:09 AM
Jun 2013

This means they all walk, I guess. There is no justice in this GD country, and this proves it. I give up.

surrealAmerican

(11,360 posts)
3. How could that possibly be right?
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 07:13 AM
Jun 2013

The President is not some random influence - he's the "commander and chief".


... but he can't set rules for their conduct now?

So who's supposed to make the rules if not him?

Buns_of_Fire

(17,174 posts)
9. What "unlawful command influence?"
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 08:28 AM
Jun 2013

As CiC, I would think the President has every right to order his Generals that anyone convicted of rape earns a dishonorable discharge (after they're released from Leavenworth). Period. He's not telling them that they HAVE to convict anyone so charged.

Is Fulton saying that, sure he's the Commander in Chief by virtue of the Constitution (which both swore allegiance to), but the military doesn't really have to listen to him? If that's the case, who is in ultimate control of the military?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
11. "If we find out"
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 08:51 AM
Jun 2013

Good grief, that's extrapolating a lot. There is not even a jury involved. We must all be Obamabots and everyone in the military too. Obama said that and so we'll convict every accused, even the military courts? Good grief how do these people get the jobs they have?

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
16. Very interesting. Odd ruling.
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 09:41 AM
Jun 2013

Did the President grant immunity to all current military suspects of sexual abuse with his comments? That's what this ruling implies, and that's what this ruling will do if it is followed by other courts. Strange, presumably unintended consequence.

-Laelth

 

zaj

(3,433 posts)
17. Seems this would be the grounds necessary...
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 10:46 AM
Jun 2013

... to take the process out of the direct POTUS chain of command. Isn't that the underlying issue in both this case and the large political struggle?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Judge: Obama sex assault ...