Woman sues McDonald's franchisee for payroll debit

[spinbaby]

Looks like they found another way to profit off the poor

---
She spent her days serving up Happy Meals, but when it came time to get paid, Natalie Gunshannon says a local McDonald's franchisee gave her an unhappy deal.
(snip)
Ms. Gunshannon said the manager of the Muellers' Shavertown location refused to issue her a paper paycheck or pay via direct deposit, saying, "We only pay on the card."

The J.P. Morgan Chase payroll card carries fees for nearly every type of transaction, according to the lawsuit, including a $1.50 charge for ATM withdrawals, $5 for over-the-counter cash withdrawals, $1 to check the balance, 75 cents per online bill payment and $10 per month if the card is left inactive for more than three months.

http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/woman-sues-mcdonald-s-franchisee-for-payroll-debit-1.1505137

[Marrah_G]

1. That is incredibly fucked up

[Baitball Blogger]

8. Sometimes, those are the exact words to describe the situation.

[progressoid]

20. Indeed.

[xtraxritical]

35. In the mean time Republicans have neutered the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB)

by not voting on the President's appointments to fill vacancies on the board. The NLRB would be this persons last resort for justice.

[Veilex]

56. I'm pretty sure its also illegal.

[Posteritatis]

2. I'm not usually a "there oughta be a law" type but that arrangement should be outlawed. (nt)

[baldguy]

3. That's not McD's, that's the cheap-ass franchise owner and the TBTF bank.

[Chan790]

6. Won't be surprised when McDonald's has a little talk about this with the franchisee either.

They've been making a real effort over the past few years to present the image of being a better employer than they used to be. The whole McJobs meme is/was a PR nightmare for them. Screwing your employees as a franchisee reflects badly on McDonald's as a franchiser and the McDonald's corporation as a while. They're not loving this.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. It got to the point of having to sue....

You can bet she already tried to resolve this internally before filing a lawsuit.

[leftstreet]

4. And I bet they don't disclose the 'fees' at hiring

Nickel and diming the working classes to death

DURec

[Posteritatis]

21. Or if they do, they actively obfuscate them. (nt)

[Plucketeer]

63. If ANYONE ever needed proof

of why corporations want regulations out of their way! Chase has screwed my neighbor over for FOUR years now - regarding forclosure of his home.

[BrotherIvan]

5. Damn, I didn't see that coming

Add me to the "This is Fucked Up" list.

[kudzu22]

7. Definitely messed up, but

what are your damages, really? Is it worth the lawsuit to recover? Simple solution is don't work there.

[Ed Suspicious]

9. Nice upper middle class perspective there. Know anybody who works at Mc Ds to make ends

meet?

[2naSalit]

11. Know anybody who

works at one of those joints because it's their life dream or career path?

[Ed Suspicious]

13. If there is a legal remedy, why would you oppose taking it? Mc Donalds is going to assure she gets

repaid from these shenanigans simply because it won't be worth the bad press not to. And a they will probably write a policy that franchisees be obligated to follow that will avoid this type of confrontation in the future. We have a court system for exactly these types of issues. Why not use it?

[Thor_MN]

14. Know anyone who is doing anything and everything they can to get a paycheck?

and yes, I do know people who will never be employable beyond this type of job. Is it wrong for people to fight for their rights? Or should we just look the other way while they are taken advantage of? Maybe we should just let the "job creators" purchase them...

[2naSalit]

24. I am certainly not

disputing this person's right to file such a lawsuit. I am pissed that there are so many of us who have few other options than to work at such places that are abominations to our species on so many levels.

Please don't misunderstand my snarky comment. I was responding to the idea that this person had other employment options, the "...don't work there" comment. I have had a number of "non-option" jobs to keep from falling into financial despair and still ended up homeless and underpaid twice (both times we had a president named George Bush in office BTW).

I laud this person for taking it up through alleged legal avenues, if they actually exist anymore for those of us who have little monetary power.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

46. I'm thinking people replied to you by mistake.

They should have responded to kudzu.

I'm totally with you here.

And against JP Morgan bank!

[Ed Suspicious]

84. Yeah, sorry that reply wasn't intended for you. I'm guessing it was user error, but I was sure I

replied to the guy who thought the idea of a lawsuit as being less convenient than quitting and finding a new job.

[Thor_MN]

12. I'm guessing you have never been unemployed or underemployed...

The damages are not being able to get your pay, without incurring fees to recover it.

Your simple solution is to quit, hope that there is another job somewhere else, leaving what is clearly an unfair labor practice for others to deal with? Do you always simply give into bullies? Are there any principles which you would fight for?

Is it worth the lawsuit? Apparently she, and her attorneys, think so.

[ceonupe]

37. more info

what you should know about the card is:

1 free no fee atm withdrawal a month
No fee to transfer money to a US bank account (can be setup to transfer money to your linked bank account automatically).


Things you should know about paper checks
Non account holders are charged $5-7 at almost all us banks to cash a check.

The fee to check balance is that that. Its 100% free to check balance using automated system and online system. However talking to someone will cost you 75 cent.

Also you should note the state has already established the card as a legal way to pay employees. You should note how the articale conviently leaves these facts out. and also how the class action has not been certified. Come on DU we gotta dig deeper into stories like this and get the facts.

If we should be mad at anyone its ourselves for becoming dependant on a for profit banking system. These banks dont have to move our money around for free.

[dixiegrrrrl]

41. JP Morgan seems to have a monopoly on debit cards to the poor.

Unemployment benefits, Food Stamp cards, created by JP Morgan with teh same onerous conditions of use.
Oh, and Soc. Sec. check funds if you do not have direct deposit, you get a debit card by JP Morgan.
The bank counts on what they call "the un-banked" having these cards, and makes a profit from almost every activity of use.

[CincyDem]

51. Ohio EBT system down today

Hand written sign in local Kroger last night:

"Ohio EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer) will be off line June 16 from 12:01 am until 11:59pm to complete the transfer of services from Xerox Payment Systems to JPMorgan. We apologize for the inconvenience."

JPM just keeps reeling them in, becoming paymaster to the 99%. Just another way to become TBTF.

[dixiegrrrrl]

67. JP Morgan can click ONE button and suddenly...no money for

food stamp recipients
unemployed benefits
Soc. Sec. recipeints who do not have banks
Veterans benefits?????

I know I must be missing other groups here...but is it not interesting that ONE TBTF bank controls access to so many people's money
AND makes a killing in fees from the cards plus the fortune the gov't is paying them to produce the cards.

[CincyDem]

83. That's exactly what I thought when I saw it.

Seems to me the set themselves up as the financial conduit between government and social services. Then, when they go off and do whatever crazy shit happens in the "derivative trading operations" that put more money at risk that is available in the entire world...then they say "you can't let us fail, look what will happen to your social safety net".

It's a smart strategy from their point of view but so f'ed up that we fall for it as a country.

[AllyCat]

55. Wow! ONE free ATM withdrawal a month???!! What a bargain!

And linking this to your bank account, should you have one, gives a nice line for JPMC to have access to your account information (now that we are in the NSA spying age). Maybe the fee is 5-7 bones, but it's a ONE TIME FEE to cash her check instead of getting nickeled and dimed with every transaction.

This should NOT be a legal way to pay employees. There needs to be no fees attached to getting your money (and I don't think I should have to pay them to get mine with a paper check either).

This hurts the poor more than it hurts you, CEO.

[TexasTowelie]

57. Two things that I see wrong with the cards.

ATMs have maximum withdrawals per day. The most lenient bank that I ever found was Bank of America where the ATM in the building I worked at allowed $800. If I used the ATM at a drive-through the maximum amount was $700. What if I needed more cash for some reason beyond the maximum withdrawal amount?

Second, you mention no fee to transfer money to a US bank account. I have a feeling that linked bank account is probably limited to those within the JP Morgan system which means that the employee is forced to do business with the bank that the employer chooses. It is my choice to decide which bank to handle my finances, not my employer's choice. It smacks of coercion and I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kickback scheme from the bank back to the employer.

[ceonupe]

75. the bank atms usuall have high to no limit its your card that has the limit

Our cards can take out over 2k in cash from an atm. but many of our employee cards are limited to 500-1000 per day.

on one weekend sunday i was able to buy a truck with title for cash by going to 2 atms and withdrawing about 4,300$.


And no any US checking account no matter the bank. Does not have to be JP Morgan.

So lets get this stright To get your whole paycheck there is no fee with the card if you with draw it all at once.

If you don't have a bank account and cash a check you pay $5-7 fee and still have a pocket of cash just like with a onetime ATM withdrawal.

if you do have abank account from any US bank you can xfer your money there and go on with life like normal.

BAnks don't have to provide you the service of money management and transaction processing for free.

[dixiegrrrrl]

86. Plus JP charges the Gov't a bundle for "handling" the cards.

Win win win.

[Veilex]

59. I'm pretty sure PA, like most states, has a law on the books...

that prevents companies from forcing an employee to accept any form of payment that has added deductions, or comes in the form of a pre-loaded pay card. I know they can make it an option... but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to require it.

[ceonupe]

76. and you would be wrong

A quick search on the internet found that in PA along as there is no fee for the card or to do one time withdrawal of all funds its 100% legit.

The concept of the card is no diff than the check in the fact you can get all your money at one time with no fee. (non bank account holders pay $5-7 to cash a check)

The thing here is JP morgan counts on the unbanked using the card like a real bank account and that where they get their fees and profits because they get to charge the merchant a % of the sale (of which by law the merchant has the option to pass on directly to the customers, most vendors currently dont do this but wait a few years and you will see the fee being passed on to you)

Basicly these cards make money off the unbanked because they provide them with bank like services and charge fees for them

But even banks charge fees for basic checking now or require min balance and direct deposit and limit inperson bank visits.

[Veilex]

89. Would you be so kind as to funish us with your quick search link(s)?

I'd be interested in what they have to say on the issue.

[OldRedneck]

66. Perhaps you could tell us . . .

Seeing as how you are the banking expert, perhaps you can tell us just how much kickback McD is getting from Chase.

[FrodosPet]

93. It costs money to cash a paper check as well

Has anyone else here ever went to a party store (aka convenience store) or a check cashing place? You are looking at $5.00, $10.00, sometimes $20.00 or more to cash a paycheck. Even taking it to the bank it was drawn on without an account costs money (and requires a second ID - preferably a credit or debit card).

You can't win with this system.

[Thor_MN]

94. So you approve of the franchise's practice of insisting on paying only by Chase Card?

Did you not read the article to notice that the woman has a bank account and wanted direct deposit?

I really don't understand the people rushing to defend the abusive practices of a corporate franchisee...

[FrodosPet]

96. I didn't realize I was doing that

I thought I was pointing out how rigged the whole system was.

In any case, yes, direct deposit was always my favorite way of getting paid. Usually, they waive the fees when you have D.D. So payday was a quick trip to the ATM for pocket cash, online bill pay for the utilities, debit card for the grocery store. I hated waiting in bank lines, and the non-traditional ways of cashing a check left me feeling financially violated.

Too damn early to be posting I suppose.

[Marrah_G]

17. People that work at McDonalds can't spare those extra dollars

It might just be change to you, but for many it is a couple gallons of milk or bus fare to get to work, etc.

[Arkansas Granny]

18. Are you serious? The damages are giving up part of a low wage

paycheck just for the privilege of spending it.

[Posteritatis]

19. It says right in the article what the damages are. (nt)

[rhett o rick]

26. That's the authoritarian response to all complaints of abuse. Get a different job,

get a different spouse, move to a different neighborhood.

I applaud her for taking this on. Standing up to injustice.

[Enrique]

28. she's exposing a scam

kudos to her, and everyone who makes waves like this.

[Skittles]

29. what are the damages? WTF

[demwing]

30. Kudzu, eh? Invasive species, right?

This used to be a house:


what an odd pick for a name. Are you an invasive species at DU?

[Matariki]

33. Read the article

"Ms. Gunshannon, who worked at the Shavertown McDonald's for a month after being hired April 24, refused to activate the payroll card after reviewing the fee structure, quit the job and reached out to an attorney to see if the practice was legal."

She did quit the job and her lawsuit will help other people working there.

[reusrename]

44. Doh!

[WovenGems]

49. Rand Paul

feels this way too. New age Libertarianism needs to embrace some humanism into its thoughts to avoid sentiments like this.

[ET Awful]

53. Your damages are all fees, lack of access to your funds, resultant penalties

etc. There are easily calculable damages. Restricting access to pay in any way is akin to paying in scrip which was outlawed long ago.

[msanthrope]

54. The damages are significant. I hope she wins. nt

[mbperrin]

58. Simple solution is to hang the owner from a nearby telephone post.

See? That populist streak just keeps turning up in me whenever I hear about a richer person drinking a poorer person's blood.

I try to be a good person, I really do. But bastards who take food from your family really set me off.

[Rod Walker]

60. That seems a bit...harsh.

Just sayin'.

[mbperrin]

65. Oh, I don't know. People playing with payroll money means your electric is turned off for the

weekend, and your frozen and refrigerated food spoils, and now you have none?

Kids can't do school activities because your paycheck is pirated? Make them feel like shit and you, too?

Miss an insurance payment because of it on your car, and a little fender-bender the other person's fault turns into a $600 ticket in Texas for you, which is your rent check?

I mean, when people starve your kids, make them and you feel worthless, and turn you homeless, what's too harsh?

Smiling fat men in suits grubbing up kids' food, medical care, and housing seems repugnant to me, and I just think a little risk should be introduced into the system for bad behavior.

But I admit, I am kinda harsh when it comes to those who injure or kill kids.

[Skeeter Barnes]

78. Your anger is justified.

You are not nearly as harsh on the owner class as they are on us.

[Starry Messenger]

100. +1

[TransitJohn]

61. LOL

Yeah, and why didn't the residents of New Orleans just leave when Katrina hit?

[JackInGreen]

68. "Don't work there"

How about a nice tall glass of go fuck yourself in the ear with a rusty paperclip? And no, I don't have an 'argument' for you, just rage, sorry.

[Iggo]

69. Plus a fuckin' million.

[Posteritatis]

71. That reaction is all that sort of statement really deserves these days anyway.

I can't believe someone, around this site, in this day and age, was sheltered enough that they thought "then work somewhere else" was the sort of thing anyone working in fast food can just up and do. Gah.

[backscatter712]

101. +1,000,000 more! n/t

[Apophis]

72. I didn't know Rand Paul was allowed to post here.

Huh.

[Skeeter Barnes]

80. See what an outcast you are among compassionate people?

That ought to tell you something.

[datasuspect]

103. your post makes you sound

like a fucking jagoff.

[Ash_F]

108. I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to join the slam dunk competition. /nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. In the micro small print

the complete paycheck money can be withdrawn at one time without charges.

According to one of the comments in the link... watch the battle there.

You have high school kids trusting that they won't get ripped off and then have the bank take a piece of their paycheck.

Apparently some say its legal in that state..... I consider it theft

'And I owe my soul to the company store.'

[csziggy]

31. If all you do is withdrawn your pay does that count as "inactivity"?

The OP article says there is a charge of "$10 per month if the card is left inactive for more than three months." So if you don't use it for anything other than a way to get your pay, does J.P. Morgan Chase count that as inactivity?

I would bet the answer is "YES" because you are not partaking in any activity that generates a fee for J.P. Morgan Chase. And that would mean you have to PAY J.P. Morgan Chase $10 per month in order to get the money you have earned.

[ceonupe]

38. no any deposit or withdrawn debit or credit is activity

no any deposit or withdrawn debit or credit is activity

[okaawhatever]

15. The franchisee is only doing that to make money. They get a kickback on the fees the card incurs.

Ya know, cuz McDonald's franchisees don't make enough to start with. They should be able to profit off the backs of their minimum wage workers. It's the republican way, er ah the American way. It's a f*ed situation.

[gtar100]

16. That's really messed up. Company script for pay?

And I keep thinking we're a civilized society. This is proof we have cannibals in our midst. Just slightly more sophisticated than those who would naw on your bones but not by much.

[OnlinePoker]

22. I worked at McDonalds in the '70's

Our pay was direct deposited into a bank chequing account (no option). Because I got my first pay the day after I started, I only had 4 hours of pay (about $10 at the time minus taxes). The bank, however, had charged me $20 for my cheques and I was in arrears immediately. Because they did this, I then incurred an NSF fee. It took months to fix the transaction with the bank and McDonalds saying it was the other guys fault. My intro to stupid business practices at 15.

[Freddie]

23. Wow, I'm a payroll admin

I've never heard of an employer refusing to do traditional direct deposit, it's free to the employer and so much less hassle than live checks. The only time they are supposed to use those cards is for the "unbanked" not everyone! Obviously a kickback situation here. Bad publicity is the best recourse.

[L0oniX]

25. Predators!

[dlwickham]

27. sounds like the basis for a class action lawsuit

I'm sure she's not the only one who's been affected by this and lost money because of it

[Matariki]

32. "$1 to check the balance"

disgusting parasites.

[Posteritatis]

70. That was the part that really floored me. (nt)

[thefool_wa]

34. Should we really expect anything less...

From a company that turns its back on franchisees paying shift managers MINIMUM WAGE?

[tammywammy]

39. This is the franchisee doing it, not corporate McDonalds. n/t

[leftstreet]

40. McDonalds, WalMart and MegaBanks are probably thrilled

Their corporate lawyers are itching for a friendly ruling

[thefool_wa]

43. That was really kind of my point

McDonald's turns its back on a lot of things the franchisers do. They should be a little more active in protecting the rights of the workers who represent their brand. Probably should have said that instead of something sarcastic.

[annabanana]

42. Always stealing the most from the poorest and least powerful..

Standard Operating Procedure

[aikoaiko]

45. That is so crappy it's hard to believe its true.

But such is life these days.

[Faryn Balyncd]

47. So how are the kickbacks from Morgan Chase to the Muellers structured?

What is the incentive for such an exploitative policy?

How much of the legally owned wages end up as kickbacks to the employer?

[ceonupe]

50. zero

zero

outside of free payroll processing software and integration into time and attendance system.

But many people don't know banks charge non-account holders $5-7 to cash a check. and these cards and pay systems charge zero fee for electronic xfer to a linked bank account (any bank with routing and checking account number).

not saying the should not work out a solution for paper checks. but the logistics of that may become more dificult as business increasingly remove non essecential tasks out of branch locations. It is possible the task of distributing paychecks for span multiple parties to distribute on payday(morning shift manager, mid day and evening) and these busienss are moving away from the concept of a highly paid or skilled/trained manager onsite at all times.

[mbperrin]

62. I haven't banked since 1978, and I haven't missed the bastards for a minute.

My local grocery store will cash my paycheck at the checkout stand for no fee. They appreciate me shopping there.

I figure that I have literally saved a million dollars since 78 on interest and fees from bank scum. They're an artificial thing, like a yeast infection, that can and should be killed, but too many see as inevitable.

People got things done on this planet long before banks, and we'd get more done without them.

And if business is simply too stupid or too lazy, as you infer in this post, to solve it, I don't need to spend my money there, either.

[dembotoz]

48. my kids mickey d check is paper

[NaturalCommunist]

52. Nationalize them

It's coming sooner than you think. With no one wanting to give health care, even though it's the law, and now this.

Nationalize them. People would be proud to serve up burgers knowing they could retire with a good pension at 45.

[Rod Walker]

74. Do you really think that fast food chains are going to be nationalized in the near future?

That seems unlikely at best.

[ceonupe]

77. your simplistic thinking assumes the rest of us will work to provide retirement and pensions at age

your simplistic thinking assumes the rest of us will work to provide retirement and pensions to all at age 45.

For this to work you would have to have a massive police state to enforce this level of socialism/communism. Even the most communist states never got anywehere near the utopia you post about for all people.

[Posteritatis]

85. That actually manages to be more absurd than the situation in the OP. Well done. (nt)

[Sanity Claws]

64. The employer owes her whatever she earned

If charges are incurred in getting to the money, it must be borne by the employer. Otherwise he is not paying her her earnings.

[Apophis]

73. At Walmart, if I want to reload anything on my Walmart debit card, I have to pay $3.

No matter if I wanted to load $1 or $5000. $3 charge.

I work at Walmart and they pay us with this debit card. I can direct deposit my money, but I don't have a bank account.

[ceonupe]

79. Banks will charge 5-7$ to cash a paper check

Banks will charge 5-7$ to cash a paper check

but the point I think being made here is banks arent free institutions. They exist to make money. Long gone are the free checking accounts unless you have Min balance or direct deposit or linked savings account with min balance.

I used to say credit unions all the way but they to have begun charging more fees.

Take this as a lesson now that the world is not a fair place and you must look out for your wellbeing. Work to establish a checking account with a reputable bank with low/no fees.

If you are with walmart find a mentor at a high level in the store or better yet regional management. Walmart for all thats bad thats said about them is one of the few places that really provid advancement opportunities that they groom you for while you still work for them. I have a friend from high school who now makes over 130k a year working for walmart. His passion was always real estate and this fall he will have transitioned into a business unit that deals with scouting locations, acquiring land/permits and stuff like that. John (his name) was an average student in school but a hard worker we finished high school in 2000. A few years ago walmart even gave him maternity leave (his wife was in college at the time and needed to study/complete semester) he came back and still is climbing to the top.

[tsuki]

81. Most grocery stores cash for free. I see it all the time. nt

[ceonupe]

82. assuming you purchase items there in most cases.

Yes that has been the case for decades. IT was a clever business idea. Provide a service that your customers need that also entices them to shop with you.

[tsuki]

90. Or you can go to the writer's bank. I have done that. nt

[ceonupe]

91. who will then charge you a fee if you dont have account there

Ever major bank charges these fees now and most regional banks as well.

the non account holder fee is $5-7 and will be waived if you open account with them.

[tsuki]

99. As long as I presented the check to the bank it was written on, I

was never charged a fee. Although, banking regulations are different in different states.

[Sanity Claws]

104. Many banks are charging fees to cash their own checks, if you don't have an account with them.

TD is one of them.
They admit that they don't charge the same fee to banks who present the checks for payment.
I think it's outrageous.

[ceonupe]

107. when was the last time you did this and was it a bank you dont already have act with

most banks now charge a non account holder fee to cash a check if the person cashing it does not have accout at the bank. Does not matter if the check was written on account held at that bank.

This change started a few years ago and after the limits on over draft fees they went pretty mainstream. Even some credit unions do this.

Off the top of my head I know all the major 40 banks in america charge this.

[LanternWaste]

102. You should be more discerning in your search.

"I used to say credit unions all the way but they to have begun charging more fees.", "Long gone are the..."

You may attempt to then be more discerning in your search, as my credit union is low-fee/no-fee. Much like what standard banks were prior to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act

[ceonupe]

106. I eat my own dog food

I found a great credit union. State Employees in NC. Great fees and rates.

But I still bank with bank of america. Their technology platform hands down is far better that almost any bank.

They created the magnetic strip, MICRA numbers and so much more but their online banking since it launched has been so much better than my credit union.

My money goes something like this direct deposit to Bank of america and most daya to day banking occurs thru their systems of bill pay mobile deposits ect. I transfer the rest to SECU and have loans and CDs and other types off accounts at SECU. I would havemy Mortgage there but they only offer 20 year terms max and at the time i bought back in 2005 I was just getting out of college and needed a traditional fixed rate 30year loan.

[99Forever]

88. Freakin' banksters should all be behind bars...

... and people like that jerkwad franchisee need some hardcore street justice visited upon them.

[ceonupe]

92. with what most on DU advocate laws that disarm avg joes

most on DU support laws that level on the wealthest in a position to acquire and maintain arms.

Sorry but street justice vs an armed rival may end up with lots of deaths.

Funny story in our town the largest donor to democrats is a business owner who is mega rich. He recently went to a car auction and bought about a half dozen old high end sports cars spending almost a million dollars.

He came to the local gun store while i was there helping a friend purchase their first gun. The mega donor bought a handgun for each car and picked up 2 10" Short Barrel Rifles (Compact ar-15 style guns). Our town sheriff refuses to sign paperwork for civilians to get NFA arms so most people have to form a trust. But this mega donor had his approval done by rthe sheriff and was so proud of his advatage that he happily told the clerk how fast the turnaround time was (I had to wait almost 9 months and had to create a trust this guy got his in ounder 90days)

The point of this is the rich and powerful will always have their guns and private armies and they will always control politics (since the beginning of time its always been that way)

You may claim that the obama coalition will break that but I always am reminded that big business sets culture. It influenses people and shapes behaviors. I hope this time it will be different but over the past 4-5 years i have become disillusioned as I find very little difference in substance between what Obama and his opponents push. It seams like very major issue I was strongly in favor of Obama for he has taken the punks way out on or done nothing. From gitmo, to gay marriage, to Legalization/decriminalization of Marijuana, Spying/NSA, Drones, Wars, Close relationships with mega banks and bankers, almost always pro corporation legislation and appointment...... I could go on forever.

But yeah to have a revolution you will need arms. (it was one of the reasons for our 2nd amendment)

[99Forever]

95. I could use that to...

... fertilize my garden. Write another 1%er apologista screed, it's cute.

[ceonupe]

97. did u get 1% from my handle

CEONUPE= Black male college educated Executive

Nupe= cant tell you but it is related to my Fraternity Kappa Alpha Psi a fraternity founded by black men incorporated in 1911.

But my point is yeah im a more than slightly disillusioned support of Obama knocked on over a thousand doors during the 2 campaigns and not to thrilled with his lack of action on thing he could with out congress direct shape and control.

[99Forever]

98. Huh?

WTF are you babbling about and WTF does it have to do with your defending the slimeball Banksters?

[Quantess]

105. I hope she wins!

This is so wrong.