Would all you NSA defenders still support the spy program if Santorum was president in 2016?

[davidn3600]

For some reason I imagine you would have a different opinion.

I keep seeing people say, "I trust Obama." Well that's fine. But he's only going to be president for 3 more years. And there no guarantee you are going to trust the next guy quite as much.

[dkf]

1. And it will be too late by then after they've said how much they support it.

[backwoodsbob]

2. yep

this rah rah rah shit is gonna bite us in the ass big time

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Well...that's different

He has an R after his name.

Don't worry, republicans will also flip... I trust ----- he is a Republican.

Partisanitis, it's killing the country

[Bjorn Against]

4. It is not even about who is President, it is about who is maintaining the databases

It doesn't matter if you trust Obama or the next President, neither of them are going to have time to monitor these databases. You know who will be monitoring these databases? Private contractors. The question is not whether or not you trust the President, the question is whether or not you trust the people running the NSA and their private contractors. We like to pretend this is about an individual person but it is far bigger than that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. But, but, but...(very true)

You try to make that point to the true believers on either side when their guy s in the WH.

I have...the wall is soft and fluffy. (And you knew this)

[Life Long Dem]

5. If it's about the government... then

We disclose much more personal information to the government every year when we do our tax returns than a phone number.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Whhoooshhh!!!!

It's not the number, is the relationships that reveals.

But good for trying

[Life Long Dem]

8. A terrorist relationship supposedly...

From foreign lands.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Yup, this is why we missed the needle when it was pointed

Out not once, but twice, by the FSB.

By the way the Verizon production order pretty much kills the foreign ands meme.

Verizon was ordered to release phone information to the NSA. The order signed by Judge Roger Vinson includes “all call detail records or 'telephone metadata' created by Verizon for communications between the United States and abroad, or wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

[treestar]

11. If you phone somebody you probably have a relationship of some kind with them

Most people's associations are more out in the open that that. The database of phone calls made doesn't reveal much more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Yes, yes it does.

I prefer to live in reality. The reality is that I have both government and private contractors following me, and you, and everybody. It is a dictablanda, inverted totalitarianism, what have you. It can be keyed up very fast. And it's not about the current boogeyman. Police states do not build this due to external threats. That's the excuse. Police states build it to protect themselves from real or perceived internal threats.

Oh...this is not partisan...at all...and it will continue under the next president, even if that be Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or any other hero ofthe left, or Rand Paul, or Sarah Palin or any other hero of the far right. This is the logic of empire.

One more thing, voting is an illusion, particularly at the Federal level.Zappa has it right.

Now I guess that red pill is too scary.

[treestar]

9. Has anyone actually supported "the spy program?"

Yes, I would support some of it. Even when Bush was President or Santorum was, I think some intelligence gathering might protect this country from attacks by other countries or terrorists. I don't see that we can do completely without "a spy program." The database of phone calls is the only new news. There's no big brother in your living room and the First Amendment is alive and well. If this database of phone calls revealed that Sarah Palin was a conservative and sought to punish her for it , it would be redundant, so probably thinks are as they seem, and they look for terrorist plans in it, not to find out dirt on political opponents.

[Matariki]

17. yes. and/or denied what it actually is.

[OilemFirchen]

18. Follow the God Damned RULES!

If you doubt the severity of this "scandal" you are an "NSA Defender"! If you doubt that the Stasi are jerking off to your mom's sciatica, you are an NSA Lover! If you disbelieve that encrypted numbers and dates, with no names and locations attached, are the end of the Fourth Amendment you are an NSA WORSHIPER!

Own your inner Fascism!

[HardTimes99]

19. Sieg Heil, mein Fuhrer! - nt :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Kinda like asking if you prefer the cancer to be in your lungs or liver?

[LuvNewcastle]

14. Just think what Opus Dei could do with all that information.

[HardTimes99]

15. Wonder how they'll feel with a President Palin

all up in their business?

Best hypothetical question EVER!

[DirkGently]

16. Exactly. (nt)

[ucrdem]

20. Let's turn that around: would the ranters keep ranting if they knew it meant Santorum in 2016?

Or a GOP senate in 2014? Because that's what worries a lot of us here.

[intaglio]

21. As PRISM examines metadata

and metadata is, functionally, the same as an envelope then it is not spying. For example an envelope has address information, return address information, routing data, postmarks, stamps, delivery instructions and even some information about the size and bulk of the contents.

Or are you just against the "Government" and prefer that only private companies have access to that data?

Now if you want to challenge other programs that have been running under Presidents of all stripes for 50 years or more then you will need to get Congress to act ...

Or are you content to continue damaging this particular President and so increase the odds of Santorum in 2016.

[Jakes Progress]

22. They don't care.

Sane policy and long term thought are not a part of their make-up. They bounce from poll to poll, from election to election. No center, not central beliefs. The winds of popularity blow their moral compass in circles.

[bigwillq]

24. They don't care.

If Obama supports it, so do they.

[bluestate10]

23. Santorum will be President when hell freezes over. So your question is mere conjecture. nt