How Rep. Jerold Nadler broke the "NSA DOES listen to your calls" story....

[Junkdrawer]

So, members of congress were finally briefed IN SECRET about the true scope of NSA spying. Many came out shocked, but knew they couldn't talk because of security oaths.

Enter Nadler

....

Rep. Nadler's disclosure that NSA analysts can listen to calls without court orders came during a House Judiciary hearing on Thursday that included FBI director Robert Mueller as a witness.

Mueller initially sought to downplay concerns about NSA surveillance by claiming that, to listen to a phone call, the government would need to seek "a special, a particularized order from the FISA court directed at that particular phone of that particular individual."

Is information about that procedure "classified in any way?" Nadler asked.

"I don't think so," Mueller replied.

"Then I can say the following," Nadler said. "We heard precisely the opposite at the briefing the other day. We heard precisely that you could get the specific information from that telephone simply based on an analyst deciding that...In other words, what you just said is incorrect. So there's a conflict."

....

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-admits-listening-to-u.s-phone-calls-without-warrants/

[idwiyo]

1. K&R

[Catherina]

2. Terrific! Hook, line and sinker n/t

[Junkdrawer]

3. When sources widen beyond Snowden, the story will get firmer legs....

and become MUCH harder to ignore.

[HooptieWagon]

4. Clapper, Mueller, and Obama all caught lying.

I had hopes this administration would undo some of the Bush excesses....instead they doubled down on them. I'm very disappointed.

[kentuck]

5. Good job by Adler!

He hooked the FBI Director on his own petard...

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. That's Nadler w. an N.

And the UWS of Manhattan keeps sending him to congress for a reason.

[pacalo]

6. I haven't heard any legislator mention the *cost*.

Does watching for "what-if terrorism" trump helping to improve the quality of life for our most vulnerable & disenfranchized U.S. citizens?

It doesn't make sense. The cost of this expansive program should be brought up every time the deficit is used as the Hoover congress's reason to turn its back on citizens who are struggling to get by.

Brewster Khale, a computer engineer who founded the Internet Archive, has vast experience storing large amounts of data. He created a spreadsheet this week estimating that the cost to store all domestic phone calls a year in cloud storage for data-mining purposes would be about $27 million per year, not counting the cost of extra security for a top-secret program and security clearances for the people involved.

NSA's annual budget is classified but is estimated to be around $10 billion.

[jakeXT]

14. The electricity bill for the Utah data center was estimated at $40 million

The article estimated the Utah Data Center would consume $40 million of electricity a year — a level of consumption at which the NSA would have to pay up to another $2.4 million annually to satisfy the tax HB325 could impose.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56304956-90/utah-data-nsa-mida.html.csp

[pacalo]

15. Some good reporter will surely ask about the NSA's budget when the deficit comes up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. It is not about terrorists under the bed

It is about the costs of the social engineering project in the US and the effects of Climate change...they know revolts are possible. We are the terrorists. So it is the terrorist on the bed.

[tavalon]

22. If there were a prize for understanding the bigger picture,

you would have just won it.

They do fear us, they actually fear us! And here I thought they didn't give a fuck.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Been working on a dystopia for years

set in the far future. I started this and even released it as teen fiction, but it is really about the US... right now, given all the weeks revelations, working on the background for the Ministry of Intelligence. MI for short. MI-3 is SIGNALS INTELLIGENCE, you could say NSA. Well, a lot of the background I wrote about it in 2003 seems I was writing prophecy.

No, I am not George Orwell or Aldous Huxley, but it is disconcerting when you see that you write in fiction well... take form in front of you.

One piece I am modifying in the background.... thanks to the folks here, (they know who they are) is how fast the US failed as a democracy. I almost expect the House and the Senate to be dissolved, like in the fiction, when they become more of a bother than an advantage.

[midnight]

7. Now that we know they listen without needing court approval... Now what?

[Junkdrawer]

8. Good Question. Don't know...

This is a breaking story. Doubt we've heard it all yet.

[midnight]

13. I'm sure dismantling this mess and clean up the wrong doing would be a good place to start...

[Tx4obama]

9. Muller and Nadler had the following...

... exchange where Nadler asks him about this. Nadler said that it was his understanding that analysts can listen in. Mueller claims that is not his understanding of the NSA program. Nadler may be mistaken. Here's video of the testimony Thursday from C-span. The exchange begins 45 - 46 minutes into the testimony:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/313323-1


Text above is from Roselma: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023024565#post92

[Junkdrawer]

10. I watched it. Mueller was flustered. Nadler offered him an out. n/t

[sabrina 1]

17. I'll take Democrat, Nadler's word over Mueller's any day. Nadler has a long and excellent

record of honesty, rare these days among politicians and it's incredible that anyone here would try to push Mueller over a Democrat like Nadler.

If they are going to have spokespersons for the Surveillance State, they better someone other Mueller, or Clapper, or any of the other Right Wingers who are defending this monstrosity of a program in this no-longer Democracy thanks to them and their bosses in the Bush administration

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. This project goes back longer than bush

And it is bipartisan.

[ReRe]

11. Nadler gave him a little of Mueller's own medicine. It's called.......

... "INTELLIGENCE." : The twisting and convolution of the ever confusing English language. Mueller didn't even know what happened.

[ucrdem]

12. So what exactly did he hear?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

24. He heard classified information, of course.

But you already knew that. You have now arrived at the indefensible point of being in complete agreement with one of the most vile human beings extant. When you find that you're taking Dick Cheney's side, it's long past time to start being honest with yourself and evaluate how you got to this shameful place.

[xchrom]

16. du rec.

[Junkdrawer]

18. I just posted the ACTUAL exchange:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1017

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Through the looking glass

[WillyT]

25. K & R !!!

[struggle4progress]

27. The CNET headline: NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants

From the CNET article: "... Rep. Nadler's disclosure that NSA analysts can listen to calls without court orders ..."

The actual exchange:

~snip~

Nadler: ... We heard precisely the opposite at the briefing the other day. We heard precisely that you could get the specific information from that telephone simply based on an analyst deciding that and you didn’t need a new warrant. Other-words is what you just said is incorrect. So there’s a conflict.

Mueller: I’m not sure it’s the answer to the same question. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt.

Nadler: Well I asked the question both times and I think it’s the same question, so maybe you better go back and check, because someone was incorrect.

Mueller: I will do that. That is my understanding of the process.

Nadler: OK, I don’t question your understanding. It was always my understanding. And I was rather startled the other day and I wanted to take this opportunity to —

Mueller: I’d be happy to clarify it.

Nadler: Thank you.

~snip~