new Guardian editorial: oversight lags technology as spying spreads to G20 summits

[nashville_brook]

Civil liberties: surveillance and the state
In unmasking himself as the leaker of the files showing the uses and abuses of western intelligence, Edward Snowden called for a wider public debate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/16/civil-liberties-surveillance-state-editorial?CMP=twt_gu

(snip)

...Snowden's case is that almost no one – not ordinary citizens, not the press, not the courts, not even congress – is in a position to discuss the reasonable balance between security, privacy and openness because they are denied the full and true facts. From Snowden's vantage point – reading a great deal of source material – he believes the US National Security Agency "routinely" lies to congress. He alleges the US agencies "hack everyone everywhere … we are in almost every country in the world. We are not at war with these countries … You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying." He wants his fellow citizens to be aware of the degree to which data about their phone calls, social network activity and email traffic is being hoovered up and stored – and, in many cases, accessed.

Is he right? And how can his claims be meaningfully tested? Congress – working only with what the Guardian and Washington Post have put into the public domain – is clearly rousing itself to find answers, but has limited material with which to challenge a director of national intelligence who says he is content to give elected politicians the "least untruthful" answers. There is, on the part of some members of Congress and parliament, a perhaps understandable thirst to pursue Snowden and to throw him in jail. There has, to date, been a more limited appetite to find out what he knows – and why he says it is so disturbing.

(snip)

But, as our story today reveals, prevention of terror is not the only justification for state-authorised snooping. Documents leaked by Snowden show that foreign politicians and officials taking part in the G20 summit in London in 2009 had their computers monitored and their phone calls intercepted by GCHQ, with some involvement from the NSA. The aim – which appears to have been largely successful – was to improve the UK's negotiating positions on the economic matters under discussion.

(snip)

The law cannot keep pace with technology. Talented engineers will constantly be working to find new ways to scoop up massive amounts of information which people may previously have regarded as private. The coming debate needs to be about how, and whether, the legal framework relates to technology; how authority is granted; who has access to material; and how scrutiny can be meaningful. It will also want to ask about the relationship between the state, commercial technology giants and telecom companies – and the outsourcing of highly sensitive intelligence to corporations. There is much to discuss.

[WillyT]

1. K & R !!!

[DirkGently]

2. Hooboy. So much for "The War on Turrah."

We're all several years behind on what's actually occurring here. And it's not about protecting us from the scary, scary Mooslams.

Likely it never was.

[nashville_brook]

4. I'd be surprised if there's not a profit motive on all sides of it

[DirkGently]

5. Of course. Power is the most profitable

thing on earth. It's why American right-wingers don't want the government doing anything without private enterprise involved.

If there's no money being made, lawmakers have no one to pay them in contributions or to do favors for them.

All that "common good" nonsense is a waste of time to people who survive by manipulating who gets our tax money.

[Catherina]

7. Do you remember the Banana war with Europe? The Boeing/Airbus row

where Airbus even accused us, no, the EU Parliament accused us of espionage.

All of this is going to be looked at under a whole new light and people can bury their heads or yawn all they want but the depth of what's been going on isn't going to please our "allies" who were sabotaged on such important things.

[blkmusclmachine]

3. .

.

[okaawhatever]

6. This is why Snowden sounds suspect to me:

From Snowden's vantage point – reading a great deal of source material – He alleges the US agencies "hack everyone everywhere … we are in almost every country in the world. We are not at war with these countries … You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying."

Now, anyone in the intelligence world, heck most gamers know that China's hacking apparatus does significant harm to US interests. Business, medical, industrial and military. Also, several money stealing hacks have been tracked back to China and their PLA. Russia, N Korea, Iran are all as active as we are. Why is he discussing "abuses of western intelligence". Interesting statement. Only WESTERN intelligence?

Some food for thought:
China-Based Hacking of 760 Companies Shows Cyber Cold War
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-22/china-based-hacking-of-760-companies-shows-cyber-cold-war.html#p5

China's PLA Controls Hackers
China's army controls hundreds if not thousands of virulent and cutting-edge hackers, according to a report Tuesday by a US Internet security firm that traced a host of cyberattacks to an anonymous building in Shanghai

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-02-china-pla-hackers-firm.html#jCp

EU officials: We were hacked at Web conference
European Commission Vice President Neelie Kroes said in a blog post Saturday that her advisers' computers were compromised as they attended a meeting of the Internet Governance Forum in Baku, the Azeri capital

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-11-eu-hacked-web-conference.html#jCp

I didn't even get into the fun stuff. Snowden says he wants his fellow citizens to be aware of the degree to which data about their phone calls, social network activity and email traffic is being hoovered up and stored – and, in many cases, accessed. Sorry, I don't buy for one second that he wants to warn his fellow citizens. If he did, he'd be warning them to be careful of China.