Fleeing the country to avoid prosecution makes Snowden a coward.

[ProSense]

Comparing him to Dr. King and Rosa Parks is beyond ridiculous.

All whistleblowers can be compared to MLK and Rosa Parks?

Edward Snowden is a coward.

He fled the country because he knew the information being released did not reveal anything earth shattering and did not rise to the level of wrongdoing, and fleeing helped to elevate his status.

His claim that he believed the actions were illegal fly in the face of his claimed status. He did this intentionally to try to create a scandal, and coming out of the shadow immediately was a calculated move to make the story about him.

There are several people who leaked information on Bush's illegal spying on Americans, and none of them fled the country.

3 NSA veterans speak out on whistle-blower: We told you so (excellent information)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023030479

Remember whistleblower Thomas Tamm?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023032225

[hobbit709]

1. Here we go again.

[Logical]

15. Nonsense as usual! n-t

[hobbit709]

24. you should know.

[Logical]

26. LOL, yes, from reading 1000s of her posts. n-t

[Bobbie Jo]

92. Yet you continue to read them.

LOL indeed.

That'll show her.

[neverforget]

86. Groundhog Day or a feedback loop.

[graham4anything]

2. +1 Highly recommended. COOL post.

[L0oniX]

55. -1

[mike_c]

3. OK, Snowden's a coward-- now let's talk about the surveillance state....

Please stop trying to obfuscate the real issue by making it about the messenger. I really don't care what you think about Ed Snowden. Government surveillance of American citizens, on the other hand, is creeping fascism.

[cali]

25. she won't. discussion of actual issues isn't the agenda

here.

[truebrit71]

32. Right?

That would be utter non$en$e..

[L0oniX]

57. Oh come on now ...we got a break for change. Usually it takes all day to get through all her links.

[Scuba]

4. Eric Snowden is a coward, therefore any evidence of wrongdoing that he exposed must be ignored.

[Eric J in MN]

130. Edward NT

NT

[truebrit71]

5. Yawn...

How many times will you post this? Do you get paid by post, or by topic?

Seriously. Knock it the fuck off. We get it. You don't like this guy. Move on.

[Logical]

16. +1000, I almost think she is just messing with us! n-t

[Puzzledtraveller]

23. I would not doubt that some people are planted on discussion boards

[Peregrine Took]

30. I've long held this suspicion esp about folks with those huge posting totals like.....

[truebrit71]

35. ..and they have their followers...

...that alert on those that point that out...

I really wish the admins would do something about it...

[TransitJohn]

84. LOL

The admins are more likely to 'do something' about you for pointing it out.

[L0oniX]

47. Government shills? No way!

[arely staircase]

53. i know

I mean think about it. Any point of view contrary to your own must somehow be illegitimate, right?

[Peregrine Took]

31. Bingo!

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Bradley Manning.

Given that we as a nation have left the path of civilized treatment of prisoners, nobody should be faulted for deciding not to be put into our injustice system.

[Go Vols]

43. +1

[Hydra]

45. +2

Stay and be tortured? Hell no, not if you're smart.

[L0oniX]

48. Our torture chambers are the best that money can buy.

[Iggo]

7. So what?

[Marr]

8. Trying so hard to make this about the whistle blower, and not the information released.

Fine. Snowden is a coward. He's a narcissist. He's a bad neighbor and a lazy unpacker.

It doesn't change the nature of the information released at all.

[dixiegrrrrl]

40. and his mother wears army boots...

It doesn't change the nature of the information released at all.

[Zorra]

89. Yep. Standard procedure. nt

[cynatnite]

9. Agreed...

If he was so self-righteous, he would have stayed in the US and not ran off to China of all places. I don't have to support unwarranted spying on Americans to condemn Snowden's actions.

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. And what do your serial character assassination posts

make you?

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Your ridiculous attempt at character assassination contradicts itself

Of all your posts on the topic so far, this could be the dumbest yet (we're not finished, of course ...).

If "he knew the information being released did not reveal anything earth shattering and did not rise to the level of wrongdoing" (and that's a big 'if'), then attracting attention is not 'cowardly', is it? It would be not risking anything - but, instead, getting himself unnecessary trouble and condemnation, wouldn't it?

Can 't you even keep your smears consistent inside each post?

[pscot]

12. The Tamm investigation was dropped after 6 years

The other 3 were high level execs who basically retired after going public. The model Snowden has to look at is Bradley Manning, whose incarceration without trial is now of years duration. Snowden may not be your cup of tea, but he's no coward.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. The difference is Manning is military.....they are held to a different standard of justice.

[Harmony Blue]

13. Propaganda isnt welcomed on DU

BTW Snowden is a hero.

[Broward]

14. Coward?

This guy risked everything by exposing these programs and he's a coward? Given Obama's track record on whistleblowers, his decision was prudent.

[fredamae]

17. Really? I see it

as a remakable view into the Reality of what we have allowed ourselves to become.

[magical thyme]

18. not in my dictionary, it doesn't

He walked away from a very good salary, a cushy life on a gorgeous island and beautiful girlfriend because his conscience couldn't live with what he was part of.

The 3 NSA whistle blowers you link to had their long-time careers destroyed. Luckily 2 of them were old enough to retire.

He also knew what would likely happen if he didn't leave the country, having witnessed what was recently done to another young whistleblower under this administration.

He is a young man with his whole life ahead of him, and who values that life. He followed his conscience in a way that he hopes will allow him to salvage something of the rest of his life.

That doesn't make him a coward. It makes him a smart and idealistic young man with a conscience.

[Harmony Blue]

33. The truth speaks for itself

but the poor attempt to smear him continues.

[Apophis]

28. +1

[DisgustipatedinCA]

29. I think that's already happening.

It's kind of gross, but that's how these posts are made--they're blown out of someone's ass. Think of it as Jackson Pollack doing fecal-based propaganda instead of art.

[Skip Intro]

34. HA!

[truebrit71]

36. [phone]

Last edited Mon Jun 17, 2013, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Despicable that the OP's sycophants got this hidden....

[Daniel537]

46. There's a lovely little cadre of fascists here

that will support anything as long as it is DNC approved. These are the types of folks Pol Pot and Stalin sought out.

[treestar]

52. What is it about your cadres that you cannot bear any disagreement?

Or any questioning. You declared Eddie a hero and went from there. So many seem enraged that Eddie's actions can even be questioned or that his character be examined at all.

[Daniel537]

58. I didn't declare him anything.

The story here is not Snowden, its the crimes being committed by the NSA, which loons like you are trying to sweep under the rug. But nope, let's keep focusing on Snowden. Can't make our beloved Dear Leader look bad in any way.

[treestar]

60. The first day his name came out there were ten threads

about what a hero he was. Now we find he's "just a messenger" and nobody should look into his past. One sided.

And Julian turned out to be a flake, so people who do this are always going to be looked at.

[Daniel537]

61. Flake according to who?

But again, keep avoiding the real issue at hand. I fully support Snowden's actions in this case, but he is not the real story, its the NSA. But i'm sure we'll never get folks like you to focus on that. Party over Privacy, right?

[treestar]

62. I can focus on both

We could certainly look into his motives. I don't see what's the problem of arguing over that. It's like it's not allowed to those who lectured us he was a hero the first couple of days.

[Jamaal510]

20. Comparing anybody who supports Ron Paul

with King Jr. or Rosa Parks is a farce in itself.

[Scurrilous]

21. Heh!

[duhneece]

22. Some blacks left the South to fight for freedom, some stayed

Some folks left the Catholic Church in protest, some stayed to change it from within.
Each of us have different paths to our activism,
I don't think staying or leaving is the end-all for judging.

[Apophis]

27. And they say Snowden and the 3 NSA vets are attention whores.

[JackRiddler]

37. Coward! Traitor! Vermin! Commie! Syphillitic! Pervert!

Tip: Just use these keywords to save time on your next 50 new threads in #OperationDUFlood.

#Snowden

[snappyturtle]

38. You're saying one thing and linking to the opposite. What's the point? nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. Thank You.

[JEB]

41. Those who are afraid of the truth

revealed by Snowden and others are the cowards in this picture.

[Comrade Grumpy]

42. Get a life. n/t

[treestar]

49. He's enjoying the attention

And it would be less enjoyable if handcuffs were slapped on him. Also he can add the dramatic element of extradition without having to hole up in an embassy.

[Daniel537]

50. "Bush's illegal spying on Americans"

So its illegal when an R does it, but fine and dandy when a D does it? Lol, that's ok, keep peddling your fascist talking points. Gotta discredit the messenger like a good little stooge, right?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

51. Attacking the messenger instead of the message is what scum sucking loser lackeys always do

for their elite masters, instead of doing their press job as outlined in the constitution.

LOSERS

[warrprayer]

54. you noticed that too? n/t

[treestar]

59. To be fair, you'd have to admit there have been demands to

consider the messenger a hero and no one walks back on that. so why is no push-back to be expected? I sense some entitled feelings here - we found a hero and we don't want him looked at in any way that might ruin that.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

63. Ha! The losers in the media know nothing of fairness, they only know about pandering to their bosses

That some people respect his bravery, selflessness, and sacrifice to bring this important information to us in order to stir debate, is besides the point.

Pointing out when the media descends into their default slack jawed, knuckle dragging, coward drama mode of spewing half truths and outright lies, is the duty of every concerned citizen.

[Union Scribe]

65. At least Snowden is out there

using his real name. Can't say that for the keyboard warriors activated to take him down. And those last two lines are pretty funny--run those by the BOG and see how it goes.

[treestar]

67. The keyboard warriors who praise him are no better

Most of us are not in a position to do these brave deeds.

[Union Scribe]

69. Yeah, they are actually.

Anonymous posters praising him are far, far, far, far better than anonymous character assassins who call their targets cowards, all the while insisting there isn't any issue to talk about (but do a hell of a lot of talking about it).

[treestar]

78. Why would that be?

Do you take the position than someone not agreeing with you is a lesser person?

[Union Scribe]

105. Mercenary internet posters

who try to destroy someone's character with innuendo and rumors are lesser people than I, and lesser than anyone who is here in good faith. That's my standard.

[VanillaRhapsody]

73. Like you just did?

I guess that makes you a scum sucking loser lackey too!

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

74. Nope, I rebuked their MESSAGE of attacking the messanger

And I called them and ALL their cronies SCUM SUCKING LOSERS for being lying low lifes who only know who to french-kiss their master's collective asses instead of doing their duty as specified in the constitution.

Which makes me someone who is simply pointing out the obvious.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. actually YOU attacked the messenger yourself!

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the early evening!

[Bobbie Jo]

94. The responses in this entire thread

are nothing but attacks. It looks like a 5th grade lunchroom food fight.


What a pack of viscous creeps.

[VanillaRhapsody]

95. and now so are you...see discussion above ^^^

no one held a gun to your head forcing you to read it did they?

[Bobbie Jo]

96. Of course not

I'm commenting on the behavior. It's asinine.

I read Pro's posts, and frankly I'm sick of the traveling pack of hyenas.

They're not messengers, they're hecklers.

[VanillaRhapsody]

97. And what are you adding to the conversation?

[Bobbie Jo]

98. About as much as you

with your questioning, I suppose.

[VanillaRhapsody]

101. Am I supposed to care what you "suppose"?

[Bobbie Jo]

102. I really don't give a shit

what you care about, but you're not the least bit intimidating,if that's what you're
shooting for here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. Then why are you here....

did you think you were going to bully me?


hahahahahahaha. As if!

[VanillaRhapsody]

99. I said above....I just LOVE hypocrisy!

[Bobbie Jo]

100. This is your contribution?

Or are you offering a demonstration of your point.

[Union Scribe]

106. Incoming friendly fire, Bobbie Jo.

They turned on you like a mean alley cat.

[Bobbie Jo]

108. lol

Right?

[SidDithers]

118. This post was just alerted on...

Results coming in a sec.

Edit: 6-0 to leave.

Sid

[Bobbie Jo]

134. Thanks, Sid.

I'm sure it wasn't the only one, either.

[Demo_Chris]

56. Seriously Pro, have your employer contact me. I can damn sure do a better job....

And yes, I will passionately and intelligently defend fucking ANYTHING if the money is good. Just have them give me a call. I'd give you my number but I'm sure you already have it.

[dkf]

64. You think you are so much braver than he is?

Funny.

Personally I feel he is MUCH braver than I.

[DontTreadOnMe]

66. I wonder how Snowden is going to make money in Hong Kong?

Did he get a new job there yet? Did he prepare for not ever coming back to Hawaii?

[Dreamer Tatum]

68. Fleeing a thread makes you a coward, too. nt

[ProSense]

70. Pew poll: Public Split over Impact of NSA Leak, But Most Want Snowden Prosecuted

Pew poll: Public Split over Impact of NSA Leak, But Most Want Snowden Prosecuted
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023036390

NSA veteran: "So he is transitioning from whistle-blower to a traitor."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550

[sibelian]

132. linky linky!!!

"YOU MAKE NO SENSE."

[Cha]

71. We know Leaker Snowden is kissing China's big ol butt.

Whining about the US "hacking China since 2009".. coincidently when President Obama started his term! Shocking

We know he's a dawg damn martyr.. or trying really really hard..

2) All I can say right now is the US Government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me. Truth is coming, and it cannot be stopped.

Aaaannnnnd...SCENE!

If he had stopped at "jailing me," I would have been all right with what he said. I have no doubt that the US government has every intention of jailing him if it ever gets its hands on him. But it is beyond silly to believe that the US government intends to murder him. I mean, really. Honky, please.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Snowden_Effect_Rolls_On

And, the sneaky leaker skipped over to Hong Kong to skype his "letter".. grandstanding little fucker who definitely wants us to deflect from who he is.. while he's busy grandstanding.

[former9thward]

75. Were people that resisted the draft in Vietnam and went to Canada cowards?

[Major Hogwash]

79. No, but those who steal computers from the NSA and go to China are cowards.

Why didn't Snowden stay in Washington and let Ron Paul's people provide him with security?
They could have held up their signs saying "Obama Sux" and got their point across at the same time.

[former9thward]

80. Neither are cowards.

Only those who denounce them from behind their keyboards.

[Major Hogwash]

81. Then Snowden is a coward.

Snowden denounced President Obama from behind his keyboard.

[former9thward]

82. Obama is not risking his life standing up to an Authoritian government.

I am sure you could come up with a better analogy to try and make your point but this is not it.

[Major Hogwash]

83. Your words, not mine.

"From behind their keyboards" is the phrase that you used.

[1StrongBlackMan]

85. I wouldn't necessarily call him a coward ...

self-preservation is the first law of nature (or something like that).

However, he cannot claim the courage of conviction that is so closely associated with hero-status.

[Egalitarian Thug]

87. Yargle Bargle Blargh!!1! n/t

[ProSense]

88. Struggling with coherence? n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

91. Dissembling distraction? n/t

[Eddie Haskell]

90. It's enabled him to keep the subject on the table

That's worth something.

[agent46]

93. Extra judicial killing is now US policy

Seems to me if Snowden didn't step forward, he would most likely have been hunted down and killed quietly. Becoming a public figure and having a dialog with people using the new media of the internet is a strategy that makes it harder to kill him without a lot of public blowback.

I haven't seen one person point this out yet. Seems kind of obvious.

[MotherPetrie]

103. No, it doesn't. It makes him SMART.

[Major Hogwash]

115. Give it time.

Another week or so, and then we'll see just how smart Snowden is.

[MotherPetrie]

138. He probably bit off more than he can chew - but not sticking around to get his ass thrown

into Obama's gulag was NOT stupid, OR cowardly.

[Corruption Inc]

107. I think people who go online and repeatedly post character assassinations are cowards

But that doesn't matter.

What matters is issues and how the issues affect the people of the world.

[boilerbabe]

109. since he won't get a fair hearing from your heros I believe it makes him SMART as hell!

[Android3.14]

110. Sure, and the person who points out the oncoming train should stand on the tracks

You would think a person who posts an average of 33 messages each day, 7-days a week, including holidays, would have something useful to say.
But I guess that would be like saying a person who arrives at a birthday party with nothing but a horrible case of diarrhea has brought a nice gift.

[Caretha]

131. Hehe

Now that is funny and probably the best post on this train wreck of an OP and thread.

[steve2470]

111. ok let's stipulate for giggles that he is a coward and traitor yada yada (NOT saying I believe that)

Ok, that issue is now dealt with.

Now...what about the surveillance state ?

You can be FOR the Democratic Party and President Obama AND also be against overly broad surveillance. It's not an either or choice.

I voted for President Obama TWICE and I've voted Democratic in every election since 1976. I gave money TWICE to President Obama last year. I'm about as loyal a Dem as they come. I will NEVER become a Republican or third party voter. I think we can reposition the party to the left eventually, hence my position.

By the way, my mind is made up on this. I really don't give a rat's ass who Snowden is, that's not my focus.

YMMV. Peace.

[TakeALeftTurn]

112. Snowden fled the country because of Obama's draconian crackdown on whistle blowers

Obama has prosecuted more whistle blowers under the Espionage Act than all previous Presidents
put together.

The view from the Government Accountability Office :

GAP Statement on Edward Snowden & NSA Domestic Surveillance

by Government Accountability Project on June 14, 2013

Recently, the American public learned that the National Security Agency (NSA) has conducted, and continues to conduct, wholesale surveillance of U.S. citizens through a secretive data-mining program. he program collects the phone records, email exchanges, and internet histories of tens of millions of Americans who would otherwise have no knowledge of the secret program were it not for the disTclosures of recent whistleblowers. The latest of these whistleblowers to come forward is former
As the nation’s leadinBooz Allen Hamilton federal contractor employee, Edward Snowden.
g whistleblower protection and advocacy organization, the Government Accountability Project (GAP) would like to be clear about its position on each of the following points that relate to these significant revelations:

I. SNOWDEN IS A WHISTLEBLOWER.

Snowden disclosed information about a secret program that he reasonably believed to be illegal. Consequently, he meets the legal definition of a whistleblower, despite statements to the contrary made by numerous government officials and security pundits. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky), Sen. Mark Udall (D-Co), Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-Ca), Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky), and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt) have also expressed concern about the potential illegality of the secret program. Moreover, Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner(R-Wi) who is one of the original authors of the Patriot Act – the oft-cited justification for this pervasive surveillance – has expressed similar misgiving.

II. SNOWDEN IS THE SUBJECT OF CLASSIC WHISTLEBLOWER RETALIATION.

Derogatory characterizations of Snowden‘s personal character by government officials do not negate his whistleblower status. On the contrary, such attacks are classic acts of predatory reprisal used against whistleblowers in the wake of their revelations.Snowden’s personal life, his motives and his whereabouts have all been called into question by government officials and pundits engaged in the reflexive response of institutional apologists. The guilty habitually seek to discredit the whistleblower by shifting the spotlight from the dissent to the dissenter. Historically, this pattern of abuse is clear from behavior towards whistleblowers Daniel Ellsberg, Mark Felt, Frank Serpico, Jeffrey Wigand, Jesselyn Radack, and recent NSA whistleblower Tom Drake.

III. THE ISSUE IS THE MESSAGE AND NOT THE MESSENGER.

As a matter of course, whistleblowers are discredited, but what truly matters is the disclosure itself. Snowden’s revelations have sparked a public debate about the balance between privacy and security – a debate that President Obama now claims to welcome. Until Snowden’s disclosures, however, the government had suppressed the facts that would make any serious debate possible.

Read more at:-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023019302

[randome]

114. He has prosecuted more leakers, not whistleblowers.

He has greatly expanded whistleblower procedures and protections.

He started a National Declassification Center that is due to release its findings in Dec. of this year.

The only reason Obama has prosecuted more leakers than previous administrations is because there are more of them.

Many of those prosecutions were holdovers from Bush, Jr.

Do not conflate leaking with whistleblowing. It is disingenuous.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[TakeALeftTurn]

116. Nope

Obama has prosecuted more WHISTLE BLOWERS

What happened to the guy who blew the whistle on illegal CIA torture?
He got 30 months for embarrassing the government.

What happened to the illegal torturers?
Absolutely nothing.

What happened to Thomas Drake for blowing the whistle on massive government abuse and waste with the NSA spying programs?
He got threatened with 35 years in jail under the Espionage Act.
The charges were dropped because they did not hold water, at the cost of pleading guilty to a misdemeanor.
Drake was hounded for years and his life has been ruined.

[randome]

122. Bringing up Bush, Jr. days adds nothing to the conversation.

I don't understand the Drake situation. I've tried to read about it but it doesn't quite come together for me.

But Drake is another Bush, Jr. era problem.

On edit: Okay, one of Drake's problems was that he stole documents, too. Again, not whistleblowing, stealing.

“You don’t get to break the law and disclose classified information just because you want to.”

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[TakeALeftTurn]

125. Nope

The charges were started under Bush.

The case against Drake was vigorously pursued by Obama - until the charges fell apart under scrutiny.

[TakeALeftTurn]

126. I think you had better go get your supervisor if you want to take me on

.

[TakeALeftTurn]

117. Snowden did not leak any secrets or harm National Security

Most foreign governments and all the potential terrorists know all about the NSA's Mass Surveillance programs.

Most of it has been published on the net for years.

It was only the American public and Congress that were in the dark about the programs.

Snowden has caused great embarrassment to members of the government and to the NSA.
That's good - government officials should be more than just be embarrassed when their abuses of power are exposed.
He didn't harm anybody in America or National Security - quite the reverse.

Snowden shone a light on massive and indiscriminate abuses of government power, to the American people (and to Congress).
At great personal risk and detriment to himself.
The very definition of a whistle blower.

The government is LYING to you on a GRAND SCALE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023031425

[randome]

121. 'Massive and indiscriminate abuses of government.'

You are automatically assuming that what Snowden says is true. Without even looking at evidence to support such a claim.

Congress left in the dark? There are two intelligence subcommittees that review and approve of the NSA's operations. They then hold hearings to brief the other members of Congress. The Congressmen who claim to have been in the dark did not attend the briefings when they could have!

In other words, they were too busy fund-raising to do their damned jobs. Surprised, right?

Whistleblowers do not hide. If sunlight is the best disinfectant then why is Snowden afraid of it? I guess the Sun looks different in Hong Kong.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[TakeALeftTurn]

124. I do not have to take Snowden's word for it

There is mountains of evidence for it on the net.

Other whistle blowers such as Binney and Drake have said the same thing and confirmed what Snowden is saying.

Other journalists have also confirmed it such as Amy Goodman and James Bamford.

The Senate Intelligence Committee have been repeatedly lied to by the NSA.
Udall and Wyden, who sit on he Intelligence Committee have as much as said so, although they are bound by secrecy rules.
They have also dropped heavy hints that the scope of the NSA's data collection programs are much wider than has so far come out and that members of Congress would be extremely upset if they were told of what is going on.

Snowden is afraid of being spuriously charged under the Espionage Act and threatened with 35 years in jail - just like Thomas Drake was.
I would try and avoid that fate too.

[TakeALeftTurn]

119. I see that your colleague is not here today

Is he ill?

[EOTE]

137. More prosecutions under the Espionage Act than all previous presidents COMBINED.

So, are you suggesting that there simply have been an absolutely exponential increase of leakers during Obama's presidency, or could it be that all his promises of transparency were utter bullshit and we're just getting more of the same hypocrisy? If you truly believe this administration has faced more leakers than all other prior presidencies since the Espionage Act combined, then I've got a number of bridges to sell you.

[sibelian]

113. "YOU MAKE NO SENSE!"

linky linky linky linky

"YOU MAKE NO SENSE!"

linky linky linky linky

"YOU MAKE NO SENSE!"

linky linky linky linky

"YOU MAKE NO SENSE!"

linky linky linky linky

"YOU MAKE NO SENSE!"

etc.

[ProSense]

120. Having issues?

[sibelian]

133. Having lunch, in fact.

2 cheeseburgers.

[Arcanetrance]

123. Personally I wouldn't consider him a coward but I wouldn't consider him a hero either

The word hero gets thrown around way to much it's basically lost its meaning. I think as others have said given the our increased love of torture post 9/11 I would leave as well. Let's go with the idea some said that this is 100% legal. So when the next Republican administration happens do we really want them to have those same means and maybe expand them and still be in that legal framework. Yes I know some will say we'll just don't vote Republican I don't but no one party can ever hold power forever and with corporate dominance of our political system they'll get who they want elected regardless of the party that person is in. Our growing acceptance of surveillance is something that needs to be discussed as a country. It's not to keep us safe it's to keep us under control.

[Tom Rinaldo]

127. Knee Jerk Nonsense

So every Chinese dissodent who "fled China to avoid prosecution" after Tianamen Square was a coward? Irregardlesss of the risks they subjected themselves to by confronting the Chinese government in the first place?

Before they instituted the draft lottery during the Vietman War (which I was a "winner" of) I had decided to go to Canada if drafted rather than fight, and potentially kill others, in a war I believed was wrong. I was still a teen - maybe I was 20 can't quite remember. I had never travelled anywhere to speak of, never been "independent". I commuted to my college at the time. The idea of suddently moving to another country where I knew no one was, quite frankly, scary to me. Though being in the army would have naturally frightened me also, had the U.S. been attacked like it was on 9/11 I would have signed up for it I did not want to become a person without a nation, an exile for life. But I felt strongly that it would have been wrong to fight in the Viet Nam war, so so be it.

We can debate whether Edward Snowden is a hero, but to call him a coward for not wanting to potentially face life in prison over his principles is stupid. It took courage for him to throw everything he knew in life away by taking on the spy programs. By the way, I also supported Bill Maher when he got blasted for saying that the terrorists who flew planes into the Twin Towers on 9/112 weren't cowards either. They were many deplorable things, but cowards; no. Edward Snowden is no coward.

[Pholus]

128. Fun fact: In the old Soviet Union, people who fell out of grace with the party

were airbrushed out of photos!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_images_in_the_Soviet_Union

[Eric J in MN]

129. The leak was a big story even before Snowden revealed himself.

Subject line is in response to: "He fled the country because he knew the information being released did not reveal anything earth shattering and did not rise to the level of wrongdoing, and fleeing helped to elevate his status."

[EOTE]

136. You DO know that prosecutions under the Espionage Act have occurred more under Obama

than under ALL previous presidents combined, right? And you do know that includes Bush, right? Wait a minute, of course you don't.