Snowden says that the "U.S. government" has already found him guilty of "treason."

[pnwmom]

However, the laws against treason clearly don't apply to his case and neither the Courts nor the Obama administration have said they do.

And neither the Courts nor the Obama administration have made any pronouncements of his guilt.

So what does this tell us about Snowden's willingness to exaggerate and/or lie to make a point?

[Whisp]

1. he's just looking for his own reality show.

what a putz.

[Harmony Blue]

4. Risking his life and freedom

make him a hero not a putz.

[flamingdem]

26. What would the title of his reality show be?

Real Traitors .. help me here

[Whisp]

30. Direct Excess?

[flamingdem]

31. Maybe he could do a Chinese cooking show?

We would see his minders in the background in sunglasses

[Cha]

48. Whining from China?

St Leaker Snowden the Martyr?

[flamingdem]

49. Whining and Dining!

Anthony Bourdain gets competition. However, it will only be Chinese food for the next 50 years of the show.

[polly7]

2. Just curious, what exactly do you think would happen to him if he returned right now? nt.

[pnwmom]

6. Based on what he has already admitted, he would probably be arrested

and charged with stealing classified documents. (Not the crime of treason.) And he would be presumed innocent, although his own statements while he has been in Hong Kong could be used against him.

[hlthe2b]

15. You do realize that the Rosenbergs were convicted and executed for espionage and not treason, right?

[11 Bravo]

39. You do realize that this isn't 1953, right? And that Julius Rosenberg didn't hand info to ...

the press, he provided top secret documents to the Soviets.

[hlthe2b]

44. Robert Hanson's conviction was in 2002.... These statutes are not only still on the books, but used.

And it has been claimed that this young man has or plans to hand materials to the Chinese...

You do realize that Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanson were far more recent convictions of espionage, do YOU NOT? Robert Hanson's conviction was in 2002!

Exaggeration goes two ways and while I can appreciate your POV with respect to Snowden, having not fully formed my own opinion as yet, to downplay the seriousness of what may face him as a means to discredit says far more about those doing than anything about the veracity or motivation of this young man.

[Harmony Blue]

3. He isn't exaggerating

he simply isn't taking the chance.

[pnwmom]

7. Then he's lying. Because neither the Obama administration nor the Courts

have accused him of treason -- nor will they. He hasn't committed treason.

[Harmony Blue]

8. He isn't lying

the word traitor and treason is being thrown around a lot from the DC beltway.

[pnwmom]

11. Not by anyone in a position to charge him or try him.

And the law against treason clearly doesn't apply in his case.

[Harmony Blue]

13. Holder is in position to do so

and the United States government can make the case since he is on foreign soil now.

[pnwmom]

14. Holder hasn't said he's guilty of treason.

And he won't, because the law clearly doesn't apply.

[Harmony Blue]

16. Holder is known for being a shady figure

so that is why Snowden isn't taking the chance. I wouldn't trust Holder with my life because apparently going after marijuana dispensaries is vital to domestic security than the banksters that crashed our economy.

[pnwmom]

18. Holder hasn't declared him guilty of treason -- or anything else, for that matter.

Whatever Snowden thinks about Holder, he is making a false claim about the US government already having declared him guilty.

[Cha]

53. Because Leaker Snowden has shown himself

to have a penchant for exaggerating(not sure why that isn't lying?).

Keep digging Snowden.. you're such a martyr.

[sabrina 1]

23. Members of Congress have that power. Here are just a few who have accused him of treason:

“I don’t look at this as being a whistleblower. I think it’s an act of treason.” — Senate Intelligence Committee chair Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)
.
“An act of treason.” — Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.)
.
“He’s a traitor.” – House Speaker John Boehner (R-Oh.).

Asked whether he agreed with Nelson’s description of Snowden’s leak as an act of treason, [Georgia Republican Sen. Saxby] Chambliss replied: “If it’s not, it’s pretty damn close.”

“This guy thinks he has a higher morality, that he can see clearer than other 299,999,999 of us, and therefore he can do what he wants. I say that is the worst form of treason.” — former U.N. ambassador John Bolton.

There are others. It seems we have finally achieved bi-partisanship however over all of this, so that's something I suppose.

[treestar]

42. Statements of members of Congress do not cause indictments

There are no cases pending no matter how much hot air comes out of Congress - they don't have the power to start a prosecution.

[Th1onein]

51. RIGHT! Brought to you courtesy of the coiners of the phrase "enhanced interrogation"

Hey, I got a bridge to sell ya out in Brooklyn!

[hlthe2b]

17. Only those ignorant of the constitution have used the word "treason"

That said, espionage can likewise carry a death penalty. So those who downplay the potential for our judicial system to deal with him and deal with him harshly (regardless of how you come down on Snowden and his "deeds" are likewise misinformed.

Treason is very specific in its legal definition and requirements. But espionage is not.

[pnwmom]

20. Snowden himself used the word "treason"

and said the U.S. government had already found him guilty of it. Which is false.

I think if he had remained anonymous -- and it was the US government outing him now -- he could have made the argument that the US government had acted to prevent him from having a fair trial. Instead, he -- by his own actions -- has made it difficult for any defense team to argue that he didn't steal and release classified documents.

[hlthe2b]

22. He is not educated in the law and used that as a lay person would...

I am right in the middle in terms of my viewpoints on this entire issue, but using that to suggest anything except that he is scared (as he very well SHOULD be) of what future prosecution he may face and not trained in the law is to push a bias that is not remotely reasonable. It is true that the word "treason" has been used by Senators and other Congress creatures who damned well should know better (or know enough to be careful with their words).

Regardless of how one feels about Snowden, to downplay what this country CAN do to prosecute him is likewise ignorant. As I mentioned upstream, few here realize that the Rosenbergs (and nearly every other major similar prosecution to date, including Aldrich) were charged with espionage, not treason.

[sabrina 1]

25. Diane Feinstein among others who have used the word 'treason' are members of the US Government.

“I don’t look at this as being a whistleblower. I think it’s an act of treason.” — Senate Intelligence Committee chair Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)
.
“An act of treason.” — Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.).

“He’s a traitor.” – House Speaker John Boehner (R-Oh.).

Boehner is Speaker of the House. If I were accused of treason by the Speaker of the House, I would take that as a sign, since members of both parties appear to agree with him, that my chances of being charged with treason were higher than usual.

[pnwmom]

27. And none of them have the power to even charge him with anything.

They are not "the government."

[sabrina 1]

33. The Speaker of the House has no power when it comes to matters of treason?

So who does? If Congress has no power, and the President has no power, who does?

[pnwmom]

36. The Federal prosecutors and the Obama administration.

John Boehner doesn't have any legal power to charge someone with treason, as you know.

[sabrina 1]

38. Okay then so I won't worry if the Speaker of the House ever publicly declares that I am a traitor!

[Th1onein]

52. They sure as hell have more power than he will, if they find him.

[cali]

5. not much. doesn't really tell us jackshit.

and who the fuck cares? gad, the pettiness is pathetic.

[pnwmom]

9. It bears on his credibility. When we can see his tendency to exaggerate

it puts into question all his claims.

[cali]

12. no, it really doesn't. humans tend to do that. You're a perfect example of that with

your misleading posts.

[hlthe2b]

24. Exaggerate because of legal imprecision? REALLY? Espionage (for which he clearly CAN be charged)

can likewise carry a death penalty.... You doubt that? Ask the descendents of the late Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.

Or the linked page from this well respected legal text below:
http://books.google.com/books?id=75m64KF4l_4C&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=treason+espionage+Aldrich+Rosenbergs&source=bl&ots=c0p3TeEIS_&sig=YcK66qymIkHWEleM8qh5BfSuQn8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_EO_Ua-0MaKUywGGo4HQDg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=treason%20espionage%20Aldrich%20Rosenbergs&f=false

[sabrina 1]

29. His credibility when offering his opinions matters about as much as anyone's which is pretty

irrelevant. What matter are the documents that which are released and what they show regarding the actions of the Government.

Also of importance regarding the credibility of his claims, are those who have backed him up, other Whistle Blowers like Drake, Ellsberg, Binney among others.

[pnwmom]

34. The documents so far don't prove what he says they do.

His interpretation of the documents is that the government has "direct access" to the main servers -- but that is not what the documents say. The documents refer to "servers" that could simply be the "lockboxes" for specific information that others have described.

So his credibility, or lack thereof, is key.

[sabrina 1]

40. The documents so far have resulted in admissions that the Government has 'collected and stored'

the data of Americans. The defense offered is that the NSA obtained a warrant using the FISA Court. That is impossible since the FISA Court has no jurisdiction over Domestic Intelligence.

The technicalities of the other issues, internet data gathering, can only be determined in hearings where experts in the field can clarify the questions being asked.

And whether he is technically correct (and so far the defense of hiring someone with barely any formal education has been that he was 'brilliant' in this area) regarding 'servers' or 'lockboxes', the question still remains, what business does the government have collecting and storing any data without probable cause?

All any Whistle Blower does when they release documents is to begin a conversation and hopefully all the answers will be made available to the public.

[pnwmom]

46. No, in cases entirely within the US, the warrants would be obtained using non-FISA courts. nt

[sabrina 1]

50. That is how it SHOULD be. But that is not what the Government is claiming, they have acknowledged

'collecting and storing' data on Americans. They have defended it as 'legal' claiming they got a Fisa Warrant. That isn't legal.

Defenders are the ones emphasizing the legality of the collection of this domestic data by insisting they got a warrant using the FISA Bill. Now maybe they didn't know that the FISA Bill is for Foreign Intelligence, but this has been the defense.

[Harmony Blue]

10. They are trying to discredit him

but in their effort to do so with such vigor only exposes how silly their arguments come off to a rational observer.

[marions ghost]

19. I would say that the people

that Snowden worked with in the NSA would be calling it treason. And of course prominent Rethuglicons are doing it publicly. The "treason" rhetoric is everywhere. But that's what it is--rhetoric. They don't care whether it really applies in a legal sense. It's all about how it resonates in the court of public opinion.

It's not a wrong assumption to say that he could be tried for treason, even if he were found innocent of it. All his statement tells me is that he has a lot of perfectly legitimate fear.

[Rex]

21. A guilty conscience finally catching up to him?

nt.

[Lil Missy]

28. If the shoe fits ....

[ucrdem]

32. This guy and his Guardian guardians are starting to reek of fakery.

On the first day of the G8 too, now there's a coincidence.

[graham4anything]

35. 15 minutes was what Andy Warhol once said.

[Lint Head]

37. Even a traitor who comitted torture and murder says he comitted treason.

Dick "Go Fuck Yourself" Cheney.

[treestar]

41. How did we miss the trial?

This guy is an idiot.

[MrScorpio]

43. Snowden is trying oh so very hard to not be a hero...

But it does look as if he is vying for victim instead, though.

[ucrdem]

45. I guess Julian outgrew the role.

Tragic what they do to child stars.

[Scurrilous]

47. ...