'Low T': Don't fall for the hype (From Consumer Reports about low testosterone and the drugs)

[Playinghardball]

Do you need to be treated for low testosterone?

Drugmakers spent more than $100 million advertising the drugs last year, but our experts aren't buying it

“Feeling like a shadow of your former self?” “Lost your appetite for romance?” If you believe the ads, the problem could be “low T,” and a daily dose of testosterone could restore your lost libido.

Drugmakers spreading the word of testosterone’s supposed wonders have spent lavishly on ads in recent years, from $14.3 million in 2011 to $107.3 million in 2012, mostly for two drugs, AndroGel 1.62% and Axiron. And the ads are working: Testosterone prescriptions—and drug company revenue from them—have skyrocketed, as shown in the chart below



But our medical experts aren’t sold. They say the benefits of testosterone are overblown and the risks underappreciated. Those risks include breast enlargement, reduced fertility, heart attacks, and possibly faster-growing prostate cancer. Women accidentally exposed to the hormone can develop male characteristics, and children can enter an early puberty. And the drugs can be expensive—up to $570 a month.

The American Urological Association is so concerned by the trend that it recently added testosterone therapy to a list of overused and potentially dangerous medical treatments, as part of campaign called Choosing Wisely.

Real risks

The ads do describe the risks. But they are spoken as you watch a vibrant middle-aged man cruising in a convertible with his lady friend, or a peppy guy canoodling with his wife in the kitchen. So it’s easy to focus instead on the prospect of feeling like a teenager again.

That’s a mistake, says John Santa, M.D., director of the Consumer Reports Health Ratings Center. “The risks are substantial,” he says. In a 2010 New England Journal of Medicine study, for example, men 65 and older with low testosterone and obesity or other conditions were treated with Testim 1%. After six months, they had increased physical strength compared with men not on the drug—but they also had more heart attacks and other cardiovascular events.

Other research suggests that the hormone might fuel the growth of prostate cancers. Established risks include blood clots in the legs, sleep apnea, an enlarged prostate, enlarged or painful breasts, and swollen feet or ankles.

Another concern is reduced sperm counts. “I see men every week who are infertile thanks to testosterone therapy,” says Craig Niederberger, M.D., head of the department of urology at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

>snip<

Our advice. There’s nothing romantic or age-defying about a drug that comes with long-term risks to you and the people you live with. Try safer ways to bring back that lovin’ feeling: Eat right, exercise, reduce stress, and have a long talk with your partner and your doctor. If you do start treatment, reassess after a few months and watch for worrisome side effects in you and those around you.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/07/do-you-need-to-be-treated-for-low-testosterone/index.htm

[Lint Head]

1. I give Low T a High FU.

[russspeakeasy]

42. Well said.

[Squinch]

2. So let's review. Testosterone: high risks, low discernable benefit,covered by insurance. Birth

control: low risk, high discernible benefit to society at large and the individual, not covered by insurance.

[Nay]

5. You can almost write the script, can't you? nt

[Squinch]

9. *Sigh* Yep.

[BrotherIvan]

17. +++ Infinity

I was going to add some swear words I'm so mad about it, but then decided not to sully your point. But just to reiterate something I asked in another thread--why don't we have 100% effective birth control that is easy to use and doesn't have health risks? Birth control hasn't really gotten much better since the pill. I wish some university or country with social medicine would get on that. It's so important and could save so much suffering.

I actually was sniped at by a DUer who said the high cost of health care was because we leftys wanted birth control covered. I could not believe it.

[JDPriestly]

33. Birth control pills were never that expensive when I was young

during the 1960s. Considering that the research and technology on them is pretty much done, why would they be so expensive now? Seems to me they should be cheaper than they were. I used to be able to afford them on a very limited income. They are much cheaper than providing prenatal, birth and pediatric care for a child. Those who oppose birth control and the pill are absolutely wrong about increasing the cost of health care. Birth control reduces the cost of health care -- big time.

[raccoon]

65. Yep, they were cheap then. Their cost has gone up exponentially, like many other medical costs.

The pharmaceutical companies charge outrageous prices BECAUSE THEY CAN.

[redqueen]

26. The more things change... nt

[Atman]

3. If there was ever a doubt, you are a moron.

"LOW T." Instead of just saying "You have a low testosterone level," which a doctor might have previously said if you were exhibiting symptoms worthy of concern. But now you feel tired and you're not getting laid enough... MY GOD! IT MUST BE A SYMPTOM! Call the Marketing Department and have them come up with a name for it!"

Hey, Viagra has run it's course. It's generic now. They needed something new to stir up the horny nest.

[arcane1]

53. To paraphrase Bill Maher: "first they invented a boner pill for men who wanted to fuck but couldn't"

"now we need a pill to make you want to fuck in the first place."

I suspect that fewer men would think "those symptoms apply to me!" would feel differently if they ate decent food and got off their ass.

[Atman]

56. Bingo

If you are healthy in the first place, you don't need pills for every moment of your life.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. just another example of ads we no longer subject ourselves to....

my rule of thumb is that if someone is trying to tell me to buy something, it is likely bullshit or lies.

[Squinch]

12. My dear departed father had a theory about movies:

If there were a lot of ads and tie ins and happy meals and stuff around the movie, chances were it would be a dog. If it was a title you never heard before in the media and it made it into the theaters, chances were it would be a great movie.

[timdog44]

81. A very legitimate

way to rate movies. I can agree to that.

[timdog44]

36. Besides your beautiful tomatoes, your thought processes

Last edited Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:48 PM - Edit history (1)

are spot on. My thoughts are drugs is that they should not be advertised. The prescribers should know everything about the drug and be able to tell which to use, if you actually do need them. Most reasons for prescriptions can be taken care of in other ways or should have been taken care in other ways. A physician who is always poised to write a script is to one to be avoided at all costs.

[cadaverdog]

76. Have you ever been in a doctor's office when the

representative from "big pharma" makes a call to pitch their wares? I have noticed that those representatives are usually women, and often quite attractive, and even sometimes, dressed in a rather provocative fashion, for a business person. What do you suppose that's all about?

If you think you may have a problem with low testosterone, why not ask you doctor to check it out with a simple blood test? Hey, that's his job. Just hope he isn't in thrall to those big pharma babes.
(Yes, I know, "babes" is quite sexist, but they deserve it.)

[timdog44]

80. I am a retired

RN. And used to work in a doctor's office for a few years. Most of the reps are indeed very attractive slim blondes, or handsome men who can talk sports. We always had a stock of drugs in the office. We had prescription forms from the reps all printed out so the doc only had to fill in the amount the dose and sign his name. One company gave out fishing lures with their logo on it. I caught a lot of fish and so did the reps.

A lot of the docs were in thrall with pharmacy reps. The doc sure did not exhibit any sign of low T. And you are right a simple blood test will tell you that. And some of that is normal process of aging. Having sex until you are in your eighties might sound cool, but it is a heart attack waiting to happen.

[blue neen]

6. Just like HRT has been found to be dangerous for some women,

I believe the same will occur with testosterone.

[BrotherIvan]

19. You are correct

the endocrine system should not be messed with lightly. Instead of fixing all the estrogen mimicry in the food supply and plastics (among others) let's just pump guys up with more drugs. I wonder if their doctors even tell them to avoid soy which is in all processed and fast food.

When I hear young, healthy people rattle off the list of medications they take every month and the insane cost, I just sadly shake my head.

[Marie Marie]

7. When women stopped buying into the need for hormone replacement therapy

and decided the risks may not be worth it, they had to make up for that loss of revenue somehow. I know, let's sell men on the idea by promising to make them feel younger and more virile. There are benefits to both sexes with HRT but the risks are very real.

[DJ13]

8. but they also had more heart attacks and other cardiovascular events.

No thanks, I would rather stay a ball-less eunich than risk that.

[reformist2]

18. Yep, that leapt off the page when I saw that. I wonder how many doctors warn of the risks...

[jtuck004]

75. So then your bones re-absorb and you die from pneumonia recovering from frequent broken hips,

or mrsa infections as they treat your broken vertebrae.

Despite the stupid commercials, it does a lot more than just make your dick hard.

[mzmolly]

10. It seems that symptoms of aging have become a brand new sales pitch

for big pharma?

[flamingdem]

13. "Alternative" medicine too

They'll compound it and charge you a mint.

I don't think it's healthy to use.

[mzmolly]

59. Certainly - they are also

guilty of selling remedies for aging.

[flamingdem]

61. I tried it

my alternative md said it would be okay. But it caused problems, what a waste of money! only used a tad

[mzmolly]

69. Not surprised.

We need to accept that aging takes a toll on our bodies ... unless you're Madonna or George Clooney.

[blue neen]

14. Yep.

IMHO, it's because Baby Boomers are a HUGE market for the pharmaceuticals. We are not going into our senior years in the same manner as previous generations.

Big Pharma is also Big Savvy.

[flamingdem]

60. we don't want to lose our

get up and go!

[tridim]

11. Don't tell anyone that drinking milk raises testosterone.

And it doesn't cause your partner to grow chest hair.

Lots of healthy ways to increase testosterone NATURALLY:
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/07/27/increase-testosterone-levels.aspx

[jmowreader]

57. Do you have a similar list that doesn't have Joe Mercola's name on it?

This may be the only valid thing on Mercola's whole website, but a lot of people will discount it because Mercola is America's Number One Quack.

[tridim]

63. Sorry, didn't know he was a quack. I just chose the first link that popped up in Google.

There are tons of natural ways to regulate hormones.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/489251-milk-testosterone/

[ret5hd]

79. Why didn't lance just drink more milk?

[TrogL]

15. I suffer from painful hot flashes

I discussed testosterone therapy with my doctor. He said put up with the flashes. The risks are far greater than the benefit.

[BrotherIvan]

22. Hot Flashes are a classic sign of estrogen dominance

Doing a little research you will find out a lot about this. Removing all estrogenic things from your diet (most especially soy products of ANY kind--you really have to read labels because it's in everything as "vegetable protein" or "modified protein"--soy is one of the great marketing successes, telling everyone that soy milk is so much healthier. The soy of today is 10x to 100x more estrogenic than traditional soy, not only that it is a major GMO crop and loaded with pesticides.

Seeing a naturopathic MD will be worth every penny, even without insurance, because they specialize in balancing the hormone system with mostly changes in diet, no medication. You were lucky your doctor didn't prescribe it, because the health risks are actually very high. If you're in Canada, many doctors are naturopaths as well, much more than in the states, though depending on if you live in a more progessive area you can find them. Good luck.

[TrogL]

23. Can't stand soy.

I"ll check my labels at home, but I eat mostly meat.

[BrotherIvan]

24. Plastics such as in water bottles also mimic estrogen in the body

But you will be amazed how soy and soy by-products are in everything. Hope you find something that helps.

[Hekate]

31. Do check labels. I've heard that processors are tossing soy into everything as a filler

The other thing, as mentioned in another post, are certain plastics, including plastic used as linings for canned products (which you don't know about until you open the can).

Another thing that can cause painful hot flashes is a high dose of over the counter Niacin/Vitamin B3 used as a remedy for high cholesterol. It was one of the things I was told to try before I went on a statin 20+ years ago. It must work for some people, but it not only didn't work for me, the side effects were unbearable: hot flashes accompanied by intense itching.

Good luck.

[BrotherIvan]

44. Yes, it's called a Niacin flush

It's rather startling and when you take too high of a dose at first, it can be extreme. If you work your way up, it's easier. But I didn't have the wherewithal to continue. I chickened out as they say

[Hekate]

51. It was awful. The places that itched also turned bright red.

The product my doc told me to take was Slo-Niacin, a timed release product.

All that and my cholesterol went down only 10 points.

[kimbutgar]

32. You are so right

I try to cook scratch and have very few hot flashes but if I eat foods in restaurants I get hot flashes later on. Red meat affects me a lot also. I can only eat grass fed beef so I don't get hot flashes.

[BrotherIvan]

45. It could also be MSG

It's in everything as well. Commercial meat is loaded with hormones. It's so good to cook for yourself if you have the time and saves money too! Our food supply is so tainted it is a national health crisis. Profits before people and all that.

[kimbutgar]

88. I have been aware of MSG for at least 5 years

I check labels all the time for ingredients. My autistic son knows MSG, aspartame and yeast extract are bad. When we shop at stores I made him check labels and if it has these chemicals he puts the item down. He lives in a group home now and when he goes shopping he now makes the house manager check the labels! They commented to me that he has changed the type of foods they buy. When he comes home he asks me for scratch meals.

[BrotherIvan]

92. What a great story!

Really applaud your hard work with him. And he's helping make all his housemates healthier too! It takes so long for me to shop at the store now because I read everything. But produce, eggs and meat from local farmers, but there are some things you need from the store. I'm always surprised by how many people don't read labels and throw packaged food in the cart. Good on you and your son.

[MattBaggins]

70. Naturopaths are voodoo doctors

pure nonsense

[jtuck004]

38. Do some googling about flax seed. It helps some with that. n/t

[TrogL]

67. According to NIH flax seed reduces testosterone

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2752973/

In a pilot study of flaxseed supplementation and concurrent dietary fat restriction among men with prostate cancer found only a 15% decrease in testosterone levels;

[jtuck004]

71. Which could be why its use is predominantly among women who have problem with hot flashes

after a hysterectomy.

[TrogL]

72. *looks between legs*

They don't do hysterectomies on guys.

[jtuck004]

74. Another therapy predominantly for women. You're batting a thousand. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

16. I think a complete check up and discussion with a PCP

Is in order. Low testosterone is not just about libido, it canbe related to other conditions. Nor is it always nessisary, as the article states.


A couple of useless FWI's --the ointment is kind of strong smelling (my patients are prescribed this now and again)
We also have to 'count' doses of testosterone like we do narcotics, because it is street abused as a anabolic steroid.

[jtuck004]

40. All this has done great things for people with congential hypogonadism. Higher cost, social idiocy,

insurance issues, and people who know fuck-all about it saying they would rather be ball-less eunuchs.

No they wouldn't.

[Warpy]

20. It's eerily like the "fountain of youth" marketing for HRT

for women back in the 60s and 70s. Women were basically used as guinea pigs for a few decades until the strong links with several cancers popped up. While it might have helped them eliminate hot flashes (which are miserable by the way), it also put their lives in danger and most women got wise and went back to the normal aging process.

I'm wondering if men will also accept the results that are likely with large scale, long term use of testosterone treatments.

[demigoddess]

62. So glad you mentioned this

It was 'fountain of youth' and then 'save your bones' and then when they looked at the real research they went 'oops'. But back before that, I researched how the hormone system worked and the hot flashes etc mean that your body has received a signal to make more estrogen and it is responding with high levels of estrogen. taking the HRT actually lowers your estrogen by shutting down that reaction. If you let your body go through the process it starts making estrogen in other organs to replace what you are losing. Besides women aren't supposed to be in that 'revved up' state required for childbirth their whole lives, our bodies couldn't take it. I actually felt better after menopause.

[Dash87]

21. Low T - I Pity The Foo!

[Posteritatis]

25. Oogh. People worried about not having enough testosterone generally have too much already. (nt)

[hobbit709]

27. What advertising is all about.

[still_one]

28. "Might fuel prostate cancer"? There is no might about it, testosterone WILL fuel prostate cancer,

And there are only limited tests at present to determine if you have prostate cancer. PSA tracking, not also consistent, DRE, can be subjective, and even biopsy can be a hit or miss proposition.

Unless there is a real need for testosterone therapy, it should be discouraged.

People are playing with fire on this one

[NickB79]

29. 60 yr old men aren't supposed to fuck like teenagers

"My God, I can't get it up 6 times a day and grind my elderly wife's pelvis into shards! Doc, I needs me some testosterone!"

[blue neen]

34. !!!!

Neither are 60 year old women. Heck, at least the men can get Viagra!

Great post...you really made me laugh...and you spoke the truth!

[raccoon]

66. +1000. And neither are 60 yr old women. nt

[TrogL]

68. Well, I'm 57....

[Puzzledtraveller]

30. I eat well and exercise

I'm 40 and in better shape and health than I was at 30, in all areas.

[abelenkpe]

43. Funny how that works

I remember turning 30. I hiked and jogged daily. Remember feeling on top of the world surprised to be in better shape than in my 20s. 44 now and in much better shape than in my 30s. Keep up the good habits and work

[onethatcares]

35. my doc wrote a script for this for me

said my blood tests showed low t. I took the script to the pharmacy and they told me it would cost $400.00 a month and my insurance didn't cover it.

When I called my doc back to let him know and to ask whether there was a lower cost alternative, I got no recall.



I think I'll stay the way I am.

[LiberalArkie]

46. something is wrong there I pay $75.00 for a 3 month bottle of testosterone that I self inject.

My level is 90 when I am off... at that level I am a candidate for bone problems and heart problems.. My cardiologist suspects that my heart attack back in 1999 was because of low testosterone level. I have always had a low level.

[emulatorloo]

83. Thanks for a dose of sanity in a bullshit thread by folks who know nothing

about how serious low testosterone be. My level is also 90 when I am off too.

Cant think clearly, totally lack mental focus. hate life, totally fatigued, etc. At risk as you are with bone and heart problems.

[winter is coming]

47. Try a compounding pharmacy.

My husband has been taking testosterone for years, but the uber-expensive stuff from the regular pharmacy is alcohol-based and irritated his skin, so he gets a compounded cream for something like $70 instead of $400.

[onethatcares]

82. I figured the reason my doctor didn't

return my call is because he was embarrassed. He's in a P.A. that probably makes him sell shit just to keep the lights on.

It's a shame because he's been my doc for 20 years.

[emulatorloo]

84. I self inject as well, $50.00 a month generic testosterone

Low test is a pretty serious condition, negatively affects body and even mental abilities in many many ways. I hope you will reconsider getting treatment.

Great book: The Testosterone Syndrome, by Dr. Eugene Shippen (endocrinologist)

[onethatcares]

91. to all that replied to me

I'm sorry that you think I would be lying about this. I laid out what happened in my case as plainly as I could. I had blood work done, everything was fine and then my doc said, "but your testosterone is low". He then gave me a slick advertising brochure and a prescription, I took said prescription to my pharmacy, (CVS), later the pharmacist called me and told me that my insurance plan would not cover it, upon asking how much it cost, I was told $400.00. WOW. whoda thunk???

Next day I call my doctor asking if a generic or lower priced alternative was available for my condition. I did not and still have not gotten a reply.

Now, why would I want to lie about something like that?

[libodem]

37. This was a valuable Public Service Announcement

You may have saved some lives here.

I have a cheap alternative. I've heard the smell of a pumpkin pie baking amps testosterone level.

[eallen]

39. There is a proven way for aging men to increase their muscle, HGH, vitality, appearance, performance

It is well-researched, proven by a multitude of longitudinal and double-blind studies, and for most men has potential far and beyond anything their doctor can provide. If it were a drug, the company that discovered it would have a hundred billion dollar miracle.

Fortunately, it's simple and free: exercise.

Works for women, too.

[nolabels]

64. That along with a healthy diet and vitamins would put half of the medical profession out of a job

Self help is often better than anything else someone can give you or prescribe for you. Of course they don't want you to know that either

[NickB79]

73. +1000. nt

[janlyn]

41. Unless there is a thirty year age gap

in your relationship, why the hell would you need this? What? You don't feel the urge to have sex as often? News flash fellas, neither does your similarly aged spouse or partner! It is the natural order of things! Now that doesn't mean a lack of enjoyment in sex, it simply means the GOTTA HAVE IT urge is less.
Which if you think about it is actually a relief. Who hasn't made stupid choices urged on by our nether regions?

[winter is coming]

48. It's not just about sex, although I can see why the commercials would give that impression.

My husband was diagnosed with low testosterone levels before the low-T commercials were widespread. His big issues were fatigue and depression, and his doctor said his levels were low enough to become problematic for bone and heart health. I'd say his erections are probably a bit stronger now than they were before he started taking testosterone, but it's not a huge difference, probably because he hadn't experienced a big drop in sexual function to begin with.

[Gravitycollapse]

49. Your husband likely represents the small minority who actually suffer from clear low-testosterone.

Where it becomes medically necessary to supplement testosterone.

However, the pharmaceutical industry is more worried about broadening the "disease" to a point where it becomes profitable. They have a vested interest in making people feel as though they are ill, as though a decline in testosterone is not a natural part of aging, as though a man is not a man unless he maintains t-levels approaching or equal to his younger years.

These companies see your husband as incidental. They do not care about treating those who are actually in need. They care only about the potential profits. And it is in that light that these commercials, which in many countries cannot be aired because they are seen as propaganda, are nothing more than tools to increase cash flow.

[winter is coming]

50. I'm always entertained by the drug commercials.

Especially when they get to the part where they list the side effects very, very quickly. I haven't noticed any that mention "weight gain" as a side effect, which I find telling. Yeah, we'll tell you that suicidal thoughts or stroke or death are a possible side effect, but dog forbid we should tell anyone they might get fat!

[emulatorloo]

85. Same experience/symptoms here

Testicles failed in 2006. Fatigue, depression, inability to learn new things, etc. Serious condition that negatively affects bones, heart, etc. I really hate seeing it trivialized in threads like this.

Glad to hear your husband is doing well.

[winter is coming]

87. I'm sorry you've had to deal with this health problem.

I think it's being trivialized because the commercials have an underlying theme of "dude, you could have the sex drive of someone half your age" because that sells to a broader audience than the more truthful "dude, you've got the testosterone levels of someone twice your age".

[Xithras]

86. Low testosterone is also linked to declining intelligence.

It may be one of the major factors behind the mental slowdowns seen in the elderly.

When I'm 60, I may not be worried about fucking like a 20 year old, but I'll do everything possible to maintain my mind as long as possible.

[dflprincess]

52. Everytime I hear one of those ads I think we should start calling menopause "Low E"

it just sounds so much jazzier and barely age related at all.

[Ian David]

54. A low sperm count in men over 65 isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, the other things concern me

[riverwalker]

55. any drug sold by advertising

is crap...."ask your doctor" is a clue.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

89. Yes, and I'm sure most doctors at least get an urge to roll their eyes when patients do ask.

Except the ones who are into making profits off over-diagnosed or hyped medical conditions.

There are definitely fads in medicine. There always have been. Television and the Internet give them apparent gravitas that street hawkers couldn't usually command.

[tech3149]

58. I pretty much called BS on this sh*t the first time I heard it

I'm pushing 60 and my libido and performance is nothing compared to what it was 20 years ago. When I compare it to what I felt as a teenager or twenty something, I might as well be a eunich. But the important thing for me is not that I miss sex or being able to perform like I used to but I will not put my life at risk to continue to enjoy something that I have a pretty good experience with at this point in my life.
My consumption of the the commercial media is mostly incidental in dealing with the commercials on those few non-listener supported outlets or late night TV (OK, I'm an insomniac!) but there is no way I would risk the downside of pumping up my desire or performance at the risk of putting myself in the grave.
For me I'd get much more from an interesting conversation, a nice warm snuggle, or fixing a good meal together.
I stay away from all pharma and junk like that because I don't trust it as it has been sold to the public.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

77. Wife's a doctor.

She is completely amazed this ever got off the ground. "Low-T" is NOT A CONDITION. At all. They didn't even test for it until a little while ago.
Just avoid this crap.

[Cal Carpenter]

78. For-profit health care industry

does not work for the benefit of people, unless those people happen to be company execs or major shareholders.

[ileus]

90. They've hooked 2 of the 5 guys in our shop.